CIhe Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Figure ill try and get on the board before actual raiding juggs start posting. Síhay Jugg 36/8/2 http://www.torparse.com/a/518234 all these are 8 man HM Nefra (even up time and not guarded) DtPS: 1538.2 Biggest hit: 4699 Total heals done: 7812 Dmg/swings: 1824.5 Draxus (tanked draxus when he was down) DtPS: 1223.1 Biggest hit: 6839 Total heals done: 56943 Dmg/swings: 907.6 Grob'throk (was on add duty) Bestia DtPS: 1182.6 Biggest hit: 11433 Total heals done: 0 Dmg/swings: 2319.2 Tyranus DtPS: 1734.7 Biggest hit: 13335 Total heals done: 40069 Dmg/swing:2154.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leto_cleon Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Letocleon - Guardian - 8M HM DF Nefra (OTing and guarding MT) - http://www.torparse.com/a/523289/4/0/Damage+Taken DTPS: 1767 DTPH: 1929 HTPS: 1725 BHT: 4914 Letocleon - Guardian - 8M DF Draxus (OT) - http://www.torparse.com/a/523289/12/0/Damage+Taken (just for data) DTPS: 878 DTPH: 644 HTPS: 1151 BHT: 13443 Letocleon - Guardian - 8M DF Grob'thok (MT) - http://www.torparse.com/a/523289/17/0/Damage+Taken DTPS: 1910 DTPH: 2846 HTPS: 2116 BHT: 8944 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogEyedBoy Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 But the sorc bubble is coming from the healer, while sonic barrier and reactive warding is coming from the tank. Currently i think i will add the damae absorbed by sorc bubbles to the damage taken. Every absorb mechanic a tank has, stays unchanged on torparse. Don't combat logs just say "absorbed" though? They don't specifically say what caused you to absorb that damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 Don't combat logs just say "absorbed" though? They don't specifically say what caused you to absorb that damage. You can manually count the absorbed damage from bubbles via the combat log out. But yes that's a big problem. Basically with a sorc healer tanks can easily take 15% less damage on combatlogs, but counting out all absorbed damage just screws juggernauts/Guardian tanks and tanks with the rw relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Wanted to put in my parses, but is the tanking board still getting updated? Couldnt help to notice that the only tanks on the board are shadow/assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Wanted to put in my parses, but is the tanking board still getting updated? Couldnt help to notice that the only tanks on the board are shadow/assassins. I am not sure. I did not find a reliable way to compare different parses from tanks based on their Group composition (see my previous post). I also did not find a reliable way to compare parses for dtps or damage taken per hit . Edited December 16, 2013 by THoK-Zeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Plz see this post as a brainstorm I can understand the issue. Extra armor provided by healers, extra HP by the sage/sorcbubble, green sniper/slingerdomes of love, ect makes it kinda tough. However this thread has a great potential to helpout gearing for opses besides the obvious epeen. Its also great for reference material for mechanics or rotations. In light of the potential I would feel ashamed if the thread didnt got maintained. An idea for you to keep things easier would be to forget about total dtps. Total Dtps is to much prone to variables when tankswapping and such. If I wanted to gear correctly, I would be more interrested to see the average damage per hit done. To lessen your workload I would select 2 main attacks per boss (1 force/tech, 1 ranged/melee if possible). This ofc wouldn't solve the outside mitigation. I wouldn't care about it to much. 1- Everyone has DPS and or healers who can mitigate damage for tanks indirectly. The playfield would be relatively plain this way. 2- After all tanking is not really a solojob. The honor also partly goes to the whole team. For example I tend use my dome when tanks are very low on HP and are in danger to die. I also have given my life in a 16 man Nevra HM fight to give the healers time to rezz the tank. This last part has partialy to do with mitigation and shows how a bossfight is teamwork. Like what has been suggested is to also record DPS. In my guilds I always try to convince the tanks that besides their job to mitigate damage, its also important to have a high DPS. I couldnt care a ratsass about TPS as long as its enough to keep the bosses on the tanks. If you really want to take account for outside mitigation I would suggest using a pointssystem where having particular groupmembers gives you a small penalty. This returns a bit of fairness while saving you to calculate damage. Also in that case you could select 4 or 5 attacks from the whole ops instead of 2 per fight to further reduce the recalculated parses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerfire Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Plz see this post as a brainstorm DPS would be a nice option but you need "DPS done while doing optimal rotations to minimize DtPS", since a DPS leaderboard would encourage tanks to maximize damage at all costs I don't think that that would be popular. An interesting thing to do would be to group DtPS and total damage of both tanks in a raid group per fight. This may cancel out concerns of tank switching but would be hard to check and would make another barrier to overcome for people who want to contribute. Honestly I don't know if we can objectively compare "tanking stats" per fight between tanks. The "most impressive" would be to manage to stay at the highest % of your health pool using KBN's graph and analyzing tool, but that uses a (as far as I understood) mac software, and I forgot to make it work. What determines tanking stats is a product of tanks and healers with occasional dps positioning or cooldowns, the job we have is to stay alive and execute mechanics as good as possible, the closest measure to this is lowest damage taken or lowest health % over the course of a fight. Of course this is all my opinion, I'll look up KBN's post because it seems to have been forgotten. Edited December 16, 2013 by Panzerfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 My log analysis tool actually just uses Ruby. It isn't Mac-specific, though it is likely *nix specific, which is to say you could run it on Mac or Linux, but it would be very hard to run it on Windows. I haven't tested it since 2.5 though. I know for a fact that it would incorrectly allocate maximum HP for shadows, due to the removal of the Telekinetic Throw self-heal, but that's a problem that is reasonably easy to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerfire Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 My log analysis tool actually just uses Ruby. It isn't Mac-specific, though it is likely *nix specific, which is to say you could run it on Mac or Linux, but it would be very hard to run it on Windows. I haven't tested it since 2.5 though. I know for a fact that it would incorrectly allocate maximum HP for shadows, due to the removal of the Telekinetic Throw self-heal, but that's a problem that is reasonably easy to fix. Hmm fair enough, I'll see if I can do something with Ruby after downloading it but it's probably difficult. It was more of a brainstorm as how to measure how "good" a healer/tank combination performed in a specific fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel_Eisenlipz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) I didn't notice any direct replies to my earlier post. Is there something wrong with my suggestion of outlining a semi-controlled test environment for comparing tanks? Edited December 17, 2013 by Joel_Eisenlipz typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 I didn't notice any direct replies to my earliest post. Is there something wrong with my suggestion of outlining a semi-controlled test environment for comparing tanks? Well, testing damage mitigation on lucky is like calculating the damage mitigation. I am more interested in the performance of tanks in raids . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel_Eisenlipz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Knowing that is the objective, I'm not sure that calling it a leaderboard makes sense. My understanding of anything like a leaderboard is that it is designed for the rudimentary comparison of a simple metric. I can't imagine any set of data that would produce a single comprehensive metric for tanking. Fight duration, damage in/out, healing, threat, etc... they can each be measured, but they are all indirect measurements of overall performance. Obviously, I still feel that breaking this initiative into smaller pieces is the only way to proceed. Perhaps, trying to track a sizable number of metrics would yield common ground. But in the end, the real question is whether you and your group completed your goals. While I love progression and completion, my most satisfying raids have always been the ones where something went horribly wrong, and we still come out on top. TL;DR - QB Rating is kind of interesting, but it doesn't win championships. Edited December 17, 2013 by Joel_Eisenlipz typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think there probably is a metric out there somewhere which would allow us to reliably compare between tanks on same fights. I say that because I look at my own logs and compare various things between last week's and this week's pull of the same boss, just to see how I'm doing. If I can glean information by comparing with myself, surely there must be some way to glean similar information by comparing with others. It's obviously very tricky though. I have the advantage of remembering both this week's and last week's pulls, so I know what factors might be extenuating and where I flubbed my rotation causing the blip in the logs. It's hard to factor that stuff out for a linearly ranked leaderboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muert Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 How about something like a Derp factor for each fight. Each time you do something you shouldn't have, your derp goes up. For instance: Grob'Thok - Each pipe smash is a +1 Corrupter Zero - Get caught in Gravity Field +3, Get Hit by Giant Laser Beam +6, Highest stack of nanites is +1/stack. Bestia - Highest Stack from Arching Assault is +1/stack, Eat a lightening fence +10. Tyrans - +1/tick inferno. +5 For getting the ignored debuff. Raptus - Eat the knockback +2 Council - +1/stack for highest stack of debuff. Obviously the numbers are pulled out of nowhere, roughly according to the severity of the mistake. For a more accurate assessment of the tank's skill, you would need to look at all the pulls on a given night and go with the total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawabonga Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How about something like a Derp factor for each fight. Each time you do something you shouldn't have, your derp goes up. Bestia - Highest Stack from Arching Assault is +1/stack, Eat a lightening fence +10. That's Brontes, +50 derp to you New logs from a few days ago Kawabonga - Assassin 37-5-4 - Draxus 8 man HM DTpH - 891 (1205 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 15442 Kawabonga - Assassin 37-5-4 - Grob'thok 8 man HM DTpH- 2171 (1654 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 10511 Kawabonga - Assassin 37-5-4 - Corruptor Zero 8 man HM DTpH - 2897 (1775 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 13442 Kawabonga - Assassin 37-5-4 - Dread Master Brontes 8 man HM DTpH - 1851(DTpS - 1219) Biggest hit taken - 18485 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This was last night, I arrived late for the raid and did not bother changing gear anymore as the guild already killed trash. I used 1 set of gear compared to other times where I min -max according to the content. Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Nefra 8 man HM DTpH - 1637.18 (1417.12 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 5363 Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Draxus 8 man HM DTpH - 759.61 (1058.96DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 8647 Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Zero 8 man HM DTpH - 2127.83(1226.04 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 13914 Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Brontes 8 man HM DTpH -1414.96(1124.83 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 15526 I have excluded the rancor because I was on add duty. My Vanguard co-tank had a crack at the boss while I was afk-ing and randomly putting adds on our sentinels. Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Bestia 8 man HM DTpH -2423.19 (1114.68 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 11758 A few things about this fight. Twice my vanguard co-tank had some targeting issues making the healers work for their money. There were two moments in the fight when I had 15 stacks and he had 12 from the boss. Consequently, the results on this one do not reflect proper tanking. Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Tyrans 8 man HM DTpH -1396 (1034.398 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 14936 Irisa - Shadow 37-5-4 - Calphayus 8 man HM DTpH -1016.65(703.69 DTpS) Biggest hit taken - 13740 When it comes to Raptus and Dreadmasters my logs are not okay for this one. I got pushed off because my vanguard co tank lost aggro, boss turned to the raid, shadow DPS (yes we are using one parsing 3300 -3400) taunted the boss of the raid, taking a huge hit almost 90% of his hp, but at the same time I was coming back from the bridge and Raptus pushed me off . The final boss, both myself and the vanguard died because we started the final burn phase with someone dying from a deathmark. Operations frame did not display it so healers had to top him back up and tanks died before raptus and calphayus were dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivar Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I am not sure. I did not find a reliable way to compare different parses from tanks based on their Group composition (see my previous post). I also did not find a reliable way to compare parses for dtps or damage taken per hit . Damage taken per second isn't reliable because of the variances in tank setups (most notably the difference between an Avoidance Sin/Shadow and a Mitigation Sin/Shadow) and boss fight; though highest hit taken is an interesting stat to note for direct comparisons to the tank classes on the same boss fights. If I might, the parse does allow reasonable comparisons of the following stats: -% of attacks Dodged/Parried/Deflected (Once broken down they're all the same, the only difference is the boss that's attacking in reference to the tank class that's handling it) -Total Damage taken -Total damage absorbed -Threat Generated on Single Pulls (on boss and not counting AoE pulls unless it's in a separate category as being the add tank would distort this stat). -Threat per second (same conditions as above) *EDIT: You could also add Heals Taken as a category if you wanted in order to show who's needing the most healing or getting the healing, though that could also be distorted I suppose; just a thought though Edited January 18, 2014 by Sivar Quick addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBCentaurion Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 This is my first time uploading logs, so I'm not sure if I've done it correct but I get: Ixarus - Powertech - 36 / 7 / 3 - 8 man HM - Nefra / DF Log: http://www.torparse.com/a/561352/5/0/Damage+Taken DTpH: 1543 DTpS: 1401 Biggest hit: 10 512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRampage Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Was starting to upload all of stuff and then realised I have to calculate half of that alone, for other half I'm not even sure what do I need to read from log For example, here is my log from Nefra http://www.torparse.com/a/568790/2/0/Damage+Taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBCentaurion Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Whats your spec / gear like? I seems you take about 100 DPS more than me and your biggest damage taken is 3k more than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRampage Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Full 78, other then main and one relic. Tbh there are high chances that I'm lazy at that boss because it is easy and I don't use CD's at all, together with maybe even not using energy blasts at soon as it is up. Probably my healers don't cleanse me instant . But your coment got me thinking, will watch for it in tuesday, with using everything properly, will see how much damage I'll take then. And if it is the same as now, then i'll worry and will see where is our difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBCentaurion Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Full Dread Forged, or full Welfare 78s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZentheSecond Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well figure I'll throw in my parse from last night... NEFRA Log link: http://www.torparse.com/a/573799 Average Damage taken Natsumii - Assassin - 37/5/4 - 1999.2 (1903.07) Biggest Hit: Natsumii - Assassin - 37/5/4 - 5632 DRAXUS For draxus we kind of split boss duty, both tanks tend to play with him except in his Wave 9 appearance where I play "Guardian Wrangler". So I'll post the log and let THoK decide if it is enough uptime on the boss to be included or not. loglink: http://www.torparse.com/a/573799 (Yes we did hit enrage at the end, though we downed him right as he enraged, from the look of the log he got 1 or 2 salvo's of his Enraged Missile Barrage off) Average Damage Taken: Natsumii - Assassin - 37/5/4 - 790.86 (967.95) Biggest hit: Natsumii - Assassin - 37/5/4 - 8443 For Grob I deal with the adds most of the time so not going to include it. And we didn't down Zero, we also took shots at Bestia but didn't down her ether... I do have logs from a DP HM, but not sure which day it is so I'll go digging later and update. On a side note; For Draxus, what is my biggest hit from? Its an unnamed ability in torparse? Oh wait nevermind... Its the explosion from the adds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRampage Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Full Dread Forged, or full Welfare 78s? Dread Forged, BIS stats, mods with migration not endurance, etc. Will see tomorow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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