Mercs/Commando DPS spec useless in PVP these days?

[Beanze]

Just as the title says, I'm curious to whether these DPS ACs are viable in PvP? Talking WZs here, not Arena. Wanting to roll a different toon for PvP just not sure as to what, and don't want to go with fotm like hybrid PT or smash monkey, but also not something incredibly UP.

[OldSpiceSwag]

dps specs are good in wzs and arenas and heals are doable in wzs

[cashogy_reborn]

Merc/Mando DPS is viable for Regs and for Grouped Ranked. Merc/Mando heals are viable for Regs.

 

Unless youre a huge masochist Id stay out of the Solo Ranked Arenas.

[Beanze]

okay, I've just heard a lot of people of forums and what not whining saying that merc/mando is "free kill". Is that just against baddies playing those classes or is it an actual issue that affects even the best of players?

[Beanze]

Merc/Mando DPS is viable for Regs and for Grouped Ranked. Merc/Mando heals are viable for Regs.

 

Unless youre a huge masochist Id stay out of the Solo Ranked Arenas.

 

yeah I'm not a big fan of the arenas as it is. played a few on my lowbie PT, did well but i'm just not a fan of them.

[OldSpiceSwag]

as dps youll usually be first target but its doable just like sorc is first target but doable as madness. it sucks but if youre good you can make it work

[cashogy_reborn]

as dps youll usually be first target but its doable just like sorc is first target but doable as madness. it sucks but if youre good you can make it work

 

Depends on a lot on who your teammates are as well. Thats why I dont like Solo Arenas, its too random.

[General_Aldo]

Dps is fine in warzones and arenas. (If you know what you're doing)

 

Healing is fine in warzones, but arenas can be really tricky. (Talking about ranked arenas of course)

[DarthSabreth]

Your DPS is fine in WZs and Arenas, if anything the CC that your class should be made to give other players more resolve.

[Beanze]

sounds good BUT do mercs/mandos have the right tools to keep lolsmashmonkeys and the like at the distance needed to hard cast/survive their attacks? as in, do they have some decent defensive cooldowns? also, on a side note, does the dual pistols have a disadvantage to the cannon/generator due to accuracy/modding? just curious.

[Beanze]

also, in WZ is it much easier to find a good spot/pillar to hump while you hard cast without being focused? or are mercs/mandos generally a main focus no matter if its a WZ or an arena?

[ManiacDavis]

I personally find assault the better spec to run in solo ranked. The 6 second ranged defense increase with diversion plus the ability to pump out your high damaging abilities without casting allows you to kite and stay out of the fray.

[Beanze]

I personally find assault the better spec to run in solo ranked. The 6 second ranged defense increase with diversion plus the ability to pump out your high damaging abilities without casting allows you to kite and stay out of the fray.

 

this is true, but I have ran a pyro spec, as my merc is lvl 30 but I haven't played him in ages, I believe it was at the time when pyro was OP/fotm or whatever. I only did it as levelling up but i feel like i want to go Arsenal (gunnery). The hard casts are what get me, but i feel that I can still be mobile as long as i can buy myself those few seconds to get off a couple tracers and unload, because then i can slow/instant cast (HSM/RS, etc.) while I'm on the run. Not that I will probably get many chances for it. I may try out both specs and see how they play since it's been so long since i've played my merc.

[cashogy_reborn]

Pyro/Assault is better for Arenas imo. For group ranked you can do Arsena/Gunny if youre group is going to make a real effort to support you, but its a lot easier to get shutdown in Arsenal/Gunny.

[Beanze]

Pyro/Assault is better for Arenas imo. For group ranked you can do Arsena/Gunny if youre group is going to make a real effort to support you, but its a lot easier to get shutdown in Arsenal/Gunny.

 

true but like I said, not big on arenas. and when you get shutdown, i know this is prob a n00b question, but does that affect your instant casts/cc's as well?

[Kerensk]

true but like I said, not big on arenas. and when you get shutdown, i know this is prob a n00b question, but does that affect your instant casts/cc's as well?

You still have them unless hard stunned. But they'll be weaker if you didn't get a couple casts off first. Commando /Mercs have a variety of attacks if a casted one is interrupted.

 

But they don't have a powerful "invulnerable" defense or escape. You can choose from a variety of escapes or defensives but all are weak compared to the favored classes. That's why you're hug pillars, run around them because you can't get enough distance to disengage.

[ManiacDavis]

true but like I said, not big on arenas. and when you get shutdown, i know this is prob a n00b question, but does that affect your instant casts/cc's as well?

 

Gunnery is extremely dependent upon grav round/tracer missle. These abilities create a damage reduction on you, put an armor debuff on your target, and increase the damage of HIB/RS. Furthermore, these effects only occur after grav round has been casted. So yes, getting interrupted in gunnery is hugely detrimental.

 

In comparison, Assault casted abilities only give you a free HIB/RS. While one of your biggest hitting abilities, casting full auto/unload immediately procs a free HIB/RS. So even if you get pushed back or interrupted during Full Auto/Unload, you can immediately follow up with a free HIB. Whereas in the gunnery tree you need to finish a grav round/charged bolts to proc full auto. All of the other assault abilities do the same amount of dmg.

 

In addition, diversion on assault increases ranged defense by 30% for 6 seconds whereas diversion in gunnery stops 1 tech/force attack. The assault increase has a "potential" to mitigate more dmg over that span of time if you are being focused whereas the gunnery tree version needs to be timed perfectly to avoid that 10k smash as opposed to some other low hitting force/tech attack.

 

I see a lot of commandos get globaled in the first 10 seconds of an arena and I don't understand how in assault tree with diversion, reactive shield, warzone adrenal, hold the line, cryo grenade, etc. I love it when I have 4 smashers leap to me because I know I can survive through that dmg whereas a scoundrel or sage could not.

 

With all of that said, assault is supremely awful against Scoundrel Healers because their dodge (which removes all DOTS) since it is basically on a 30 sec CD.

 

In all DPS fights, assault can put out more DMG and allows you to be more viable for your team because it is essentially a race to do the most DPS. Simply keeping your dots on all targets and a lot of CC can assure a win.

[Beanze]

You still have them unless hard stunned. But they'll be weaker if you didn't get a couple casts off first. Commando /Mercs have a variety of attacks if a casted one is interrupted.

 

But they don't have a powerful "invulnerable" defense or escape. You can choose from a variety of escapes or defensives but all are weak compared to the favored classes. That's why you're hug pillars, run around them because you can't get enough distance to disengage.

 

right. but you still get bubble shield and KB and stun, electro net, HO, that seems like a decent amount of DCD to me, yet I still hear tons about how bad they've been in WZs. Just a little confused, but I'd have to play it more myself to figure that out I guess.

[Beanze]

Maniac, are those abilities (the absorb in arsenal/gunnery, or the 6 sec range defense in pyro/assault) absolutely necessary to take for pvping then?

[ManiacDavis]

yet I still hear tons about how bad they've been in WZs.

 

I think the "bad" reputation about commandos/mercs is more a reflection on player skill then actual class imbalances. It doesn't help that mando/merc healing is probably the worst healing class ATM. Hopefully, a buff to mando healing will better allow all mandos to off heal and better help their team.

 

With that said, it is definitely easier for me to carry a team as a vanguard/PT then on my commando. However, in the 4v4 group ranked scene, I have seen a sage/commando dps duo completely shut down top tier melee players.

[ManiacDavis]

Maniac, are those abilities (the absorb in arsenal/gunnery, or the 6 sec range defense in pyro/assault) absolutely necessary to take for pvping then?

 

I always bring them because every solo ranked arena has two situations:

 

Situation 1:

The entire enemy team focuses you because you are a commando/merc. At which point, you need every DcD at your disposal to stay alive and the game becomes a race to simply stay alive long enough for your team to make something happen.

 

Situation 2:

The enemy team leaves you alone, at which point you can wreak havoc and top the DPS charts.

 

If you get globaled under situation 1, congrats, you are part of the problem and your team will forever hate you. If you are able to mitigate the enemy team dmg, self heal, cc, net, kite the smashers away from the group, push players off of the top creating 4v3 situations, etc you have essentially wasted the enemy team's dmg and have guaranteed a win for your team. I have had 4 DPS solo games where I have taken 100k dmg simply because of the commando's DcD's, self healing, and proper timing. If one player can take that much dmg, and still put out a decent amount of dmg, it guarantees a win.

[Beanze]

I always bring them because every solo ranked arena has two situations:

 

Situation 1:

The entire enemy team focuses you because you are a commando/merc. At which point, you need every DcD at your disposal to stay alive and the game becomes a race to simply stay alive long enough for your team to make something happen.

 

Situation 2:

The enemy team leaves you alone, at which point you can wreak havoc and top the DPS charts.

 

If you get globaled under situation 1, congrats, you are part of the problem and your team will forever hate you. If you are able to mitigate the enemy team dmg, self heal, cc, net, kite the smashers away from the group, push players off of the top creating 4v3 situations, etc you have essentially wasted the enemy team's dmg and have guaranteed a win for your team. I have had 4 DPS solo games where I have taken 100k dmg simply because of the commando's DcD's, self healing, and proper timing. If one player can take that much dmg, and still put out a decent amount of dmg, it guarantees a win.

 

okay. so basically any damage absorb/mitigation is beneficial and should be taken in a pvp standpoint

[Luckeyduckey]

As good as a Sniper. So... not very good. You either get some damage off, and die, or spend the match running and healing yourself from the mean smashmonkies. It's not worth it unless you can get a team that can balance around you.

[PhatMcMuffins]

In solo ranked, you're really at the mercy of the players on your team. Do they or do they not want to facilitate a merc? (Especially if arsenal)

 

A lot of times, being slippery and durable are what help your team the most. Survive the initial onslaught and get a full roto off on the main target (possible in both specs. have to use power surge in arsenal most of the time, though) If you last longer than your teams first target, you've helped your team into the lead. Your damage may not look as good as the 2 maras or sins or pts on your team, but your damage taken will be around double or more and your heals should be decent.

 

Lastly, you bring something that no one can match: Electro net. Throw that on your focused target at around half health (maybe more if your team has strong deeps) and they are not escaping.

[Beanze]

In solo ranked, you're really at the mercy of the players on your team. Do they or do they not want to facilitate a merc? (Especially if arsenal)

 

A lot of times, being slippery and durable are what help your team the most. Survive the initial onslaught and get a full roto off on the main target (possible in both specs. have to use power surge in arsenal most of the time, though) If you last longer than your teams first target, you've helped your team into the lead. Your damage may not look as good as the 2 maras or sins or pts on your team, but your damage taken will be around double or more and your heals should be decent.

 

Lastly, you bring something that no one can match: Electro net. Throw that on your focused target at around half health (maybe more if your team has strong deeps) and they are not escaping.

 

This is what I like to hear. There is hope, just got to really work for it, which I don't mind. and yeah i figured power surge would be required for the 2 insta tracers so i can get my HSM and RS off, and yeah I've heard good things about Electro net, looking foreward to using it. Thanks for the info, appreciated. Also, when you say my heals should be decent, is that due to my insta kolto missile? (or w/e its called, the area targeted instant cast one thats like 2-3k heals) or should i be off healing when i can as well, or just straight up nuking peeps?