So where are all these Assassins dominating the leader boards?

[JP_Legatus]

ah lol i just relized jp is trying to argue that solo q with its innumerable variables and randomness is a better representation of skill than a controlled 4s comp with comms and organization. probably that argument that if you have a high solo rating u must be sooo good cuz u carry soooo hard

 

quickly:

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

 

LOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Typical preschooler response with no substance and all stupidity

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?=ELO+rating+system+teams I'm probably going to have to put this in my sig.

Edited November 23, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[OldSpiceSwag]

Typical preschooler response with no substance and all stupidity

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?=ELO+rating+system+teams I'm probably going to have to put this in my sig.

 

1 l2use lmgtfy

 

2. your assumption that the elo is more reliable in solos bc there are more people to even it out quicker fails because this is still a small population. with crappy matchmaking and a small population, especially disparity between factions on some servers, the amount of trials needed for the elo to represent skill accurately, accounting for the HUGE variable of matchmaking roulette, would have to be near infinite

 

people simply dont play enough to make up for the minuscule population for the roulette variable to be accounted for, thus the rating with less variables over time is more accurate. neither are very accurate as of now since not much time has passed

 

and i didnt even need a link son

Edited November 23, 2013 by OldSpiceSwag

[JP_Legatus]

1 l2use lmgtfy

 

2. your assumption that the elo is more reliable in solos bc there are more people to even it out quicker fails because this is still a small population. with crappy matchmaking and a small population, especially disparity between factions on some servers, the amount of trials needed for the elo to represent skill accurately, accounting for the HUGE variable of matchmaking roulette, would have to be near infinite

 

people simply dont play enough to make up for the minuscule population for the roulette variable to be accounted for, thus the rating with less variables over time is more accurate. neither are very accurate as of now since not much time has passed

 

and i didnt even need a link son

 

Matchmaking roulette is exactly what the ELO requires to work properly if you're going to expect it to represent skill level among the entire playerbase.

What happens if I queue against smoochie 500 times in a row in team rateds? My rating skyrockets to 9000 you say? Why is it that the 9000 rating wouldn't be an accurate representation of my skill level? Could it possibly be because I've only queued in games against smoochie, never had him on my team, and my opponents never got to queue against him and always had smoochie with them? So what you're saying is that for my ELO to be accurately representing my skill all the players have to be playing with and against each other randomly an equal number of times?

 

GASP I think we've figured it out batman!

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

This is actually quite hilarious. I've never seen a lack of education on a subject be so ridiculously obvious in people trying to debate a subject before.

 

You got me on the lmgtfy thing though. Good eye

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=ELO%2Brating%2Bsystem%2Bteams

EDIT: Fixed it, there you go, feel free to learn how ELO works now. I knew there was a reason you guys didn't have a grasp on it.

Edited November 23, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[OldSpiceSwag]

Matchmaking roulette is exactly what the ELO requires to work properly if you're going to expect it to represent skill level among the entire playerbase.

What happens if I queue against smoochie 500 times in a row in team rateds? My rating skyrockets to 9000 you say? Why is it that the 9000 rating wouldn't be an accurate representation of my skill level? Could it possibly be because I've only queued in games against smoochie, never had him on my team, and my opponents never got to queue against him and always had smoochie with them? So what you're saying is that for my ELO to be accurately representing my skill all the players have to be playing with and against each other randomly an equal number of times?

 

GASP I think we've figured it out batman!

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

This is actually quite hilarious. I've never seen a lack of education on a subject be so ridiculously obvious in people trying to debate a subject before.

 

You got me on the lmgtfy thing though. Good eye

 

obviously i didnt mean exclusive pairing..... i meant getting paired with bads more often than others. what you described as ridiculous happens pretty frequently in solos. some nights you just get paired over and over and over and over and over with supreme windowlickers and get constantly paired against 1800+ players. like i said, the roulette would even out eventually and eventually your opponent would get paired with the same amount of bads and you would get paired with those good players, and your ratings would start to balance. but like i said people dont play enough and there arent enough player to even out uneven roulette. didnt mean that roulette was a bad factor even though i guess it seemed like i meant that

 

4s are a better representation because although there is a smaller population, the roulette works better because most people that q 4s are on the same level of skill or at least the same tier of skill. the people who get facerolled usually leave without getting better, leaving only the good teams to constantly trade wins with each other. the roulette evens out quicker over time and there is zero chance of a fluke game bc the teams prepare

 

i guess thats what i mean by the roulette is bad in solos. there are a TON more fluke games in solos

 

the math may be correct but you havent taken in and adapted the math to the actual situation

[Xeraz]

I'm not going to quote a million people here but, imo--

 

Solo Queue is a great indication of individual skill. It does require luck BUT it also quick reaction and the ability to adapt to whatever scenario thrown at you.

 

Group Queue is a great indication of teamwork and individual skill. This also requires luck, like having a good operative healer. Without a good healer, for example, a good dps could never succeed anyway.

 

Final Thought- If time allowed it, a great player should be able to perform in both Solo and Group. If a player is only able to succeed in one, and not the other, it's most likely a player/skill flaw.

[OldSpiceSwag]

I'm not going to quote a million people here but, imo--

 

Solo Queue is a great indication of individual skill. It does require luck BUT it also quick reaction and the ability to adapt to whatever scenario thrown at you.

Group Queue is a great indication of teamwork and individual skill. This also requires luck, like having a good operative healer. Without a good healer, for example, a good dps could never succeed anyway.

 

Final Thought- If time allowed it, a great player should be able to perform in both Solo and Group. If a player is only able to succeed in one, and not the other, it's most likely a player/skill flaw.

 

would be accurate if the greatest player in the world could carry his team of 3 droolers against a team of 3 averaged skilled players, but a 1v4 is impossible in mmos. you simply rely too much on your teammates for skill>luck by any large margin

[JP_Legatus]

obviously i didnt mean exclusive pairing..... i meant getting paired with bads more often than others. what you described as ridiculous happens pretty frequently in solos. some nights you just get paired over and over and over and over and over with supreme windowlickers and get constantly paired against 1800+ players. like i said, the roulette would even out eventually and eventually your opponent would get paired with the same amount of bads and you would get paired with those good players, and your ratings would start to balance. but like i said people dont play enough and there arent enough player to even out uneven roulette. didnt mean that roulette was a bad factor even though i guess it seemed like i meant that

 

4s are a better representation because although there is a smaller population, the roulette works better because most people that q 4s are on the same level of skill or at least the same tier of skill. the people who get facerolled usually leave without getting better, leaving only the good teams to constantly trade wins with each other. the roulette evens out quicker over time and there is zero chance of a fluke game bc the teams prepare

 

i guess thats what i mean by the roulette is bad in solos. there are a TON more fluke games in solos

 

the math may be correct but you havent taken in and adapted the math to the actual situation

 

No, the math has been adapted exactly to the situation. Servers currently average something like 3 teams capable of competing in team rateds without being farmed by the top team, at best. In fact I don't know of a server that has a fourth team capable of playing the #1 team in team rateds without being farmed. This equates to the smoochie situation for everyone in the team rated queue.

Edited November 23, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[OldSpiceSwag]

No, the math has been adapted exactly to the situation. Servers currently average something like 3 teams capable of competing in team rateds without being farmed by the top team, at best. In fact I don't know of a server that has a fourth team capable of playing the #1 team in team rateds without being farmed. This equates to the smoochie situation for everyone in the team rated queue.

 

again you just completely ignored that for the people that do 4s their rating is much more accurate bc they mostly only play teams on the same skill level as them

[JP_Legatus]

again you just completely ignored that for the people that do 4s their rating is much more accurate bc they mostly only play teams on the same skill level as them

 

BY DEFINITION, in an ELO system if a team has an equivalent chance to win as the teams they are playing against their ELO rating WILL NOT CHANGE.

Your comment is flawed in the MOST FUNDAMENTAL way imaginable and this continues to show that you have no understanding of ELO whatsoever.

Edited November 23, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[OldSpiceSwag]

BY DEFINITION, in an ELO system if a team has an equivalent chance to win as the teams they are playing against their ELO rating WILL NOT CHANGE.

Your comment is flawed in the MOST FUNDAMENTAL way imaginable and this continues to show that you have no understanding of ELO whatsoever.

 

i see same skill tier now=same chance of winning all the time every time

 

same skill level isnt literally they will perform the exact same abilities in the exact same sequences blah blah. OBVIOUSLY someone has to lose and then OBVIOUSLY someone's rating will go up and down

 

you can argue semantics all day bruh

[Knightlyyy]

At least half of the stuff you spew on the forums is blatantly wrong, it almost defies logic. I seriously hope people don't validate what you say just because you rear your head in every imaginable forum thread

 

Assassins are unpowered, less so than a few other specs, but still far from optimal.

 

DPS operatives aside, they don't have comparable utility when compared to other sub-10m classes. Low Slash and taunts are a joke compared to PT aoe stun, baseline pull better slow, VASTLY superior sustained damage and survivability and taunts of their own.

 

And Maras? Don't get me started with the group buffs and instant aoe mezz...

 

Your "op maul" (what a joke that is) doesn't count for a damn thing when you're queued into a team with a fake tanking pt that laughs at your crits and melt you down in seconds.

 

Solo queue doesn't matter. You just hope you get matched with the less retarded players and pray to God that nobody disconnects, lags to hell and back or ragequits. Plenty of terrible/second rate players (from my server, anyway) are high up on the leaderboards. Means nothing.

 

Most good players don't bother with Assassins because they just aren't worth the time or the pointlessly additional required effort. As a result, most of the solo queue Assassins are especially terrible. Hence, why you don't see them topping the leaderboards in such droves.

 

Nuff said.

 

/clap

[JP_Legatus]

i see same skill tier now=same chance of winning all the time every time

 

same skill level isnt literally they will perform the exact same abilities in the exact same sequences blah blah. OBVIOUSLY someone has to lose and then OBVIOUSLY someone's rating will go up and down

 

you can argue semantics all day bruh

 

I'm not arguing semantics, I'm educating you on ELO which you still don't grasp. I demonstrated already that for ELO to work in a team environment the teams have to be mixed to avoid the smoochie scenario, else they only represent relative team ratings and not individual ones. I then explained that in team rated queue, the smoochie scenario is exactly what occurs, followed by you somehow reaching the conclusion that with no more than 3 teams controlling the rated queue on any given server that the smoochie scenario is not what is happening.

I also educated you on the ELO and provided you ample time to read up on it yourself. At this point you're just digging yourself a hole and ignoring the information which is widely available to you.

 

TLDR you are claiming the "three" teams on a given server are all equally likely to win. If that's the case the ELO isn't even relevant because the ratings won't ever change, if it isn't the case you have the smoochie scenario while they are in full farm mode. There's no other conclusions here.

Edited November 23, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Knightlyyy]

I didn't read any of the spew that came after Waka's comment.

[orryko]

Final Thought- If time allowed it, a great player should be able to perform in both Solo and Group. If a player is only able to succeed in one, and not the other, it's most likely a player/skill flaw.

 

agreed. a good player + time = high solo rating

 

i'm 15-2 in yolo queue on my sorc, i just don't find it fun. if other people do, that's cool. i just don't think anyone should be rewarded for it.

[Stavroz]

 

DPS operatives aside, they don't have comparable utility when compared to other sub-10m classes. Low Slash and taunts are a joke compared to PT aoe stun, baseline pull better slow, VASTLY superior sustained damage and survivability and taunts of their own.

 

 

Waka is prob the foremost expert on Sin/shadows and one of the best players going round.

 

I agree with pretty much everything bar the low slash criticism.

 

Low slash i feel is a very strong CC simply b/c it has such a low cooldown.

You don't have to worry about picking "the right time" to hit your stun b/c of fear of having to wait for a lengthy cooldown and not having any CC's available when required.

 

It is super effective for peeling when running the 23/21/2 tank spec.

 

Also when playing full dps infiltration i find it useful to help contain an enemy if i want to preposition myself or just again peel for a friendly.

 

Having said that i agree with pretty much everything you said and i understand the context you were talking in was as a comparative skill set to PT/Vg.

[JackNader]

I have yet to see a rating system for any game that is an actual representation of skill. You guys take all the wrong things way too seriously. Just play the game to have fun. Edited November 23, 2013 by JackNader

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

Matchmaking roulette is exactly what the ELO requires to work properly if you're going to expect it to represent skill level among the entire playerbase.

That's the problem though. Solo queue is not "matchmaking roulette." The comps are based on vague spec classifications and divided by faction.

 

The situation on POT5 is a perfect example of how flawed this system is. For example, lets say several top players are queuing Empire side on a given evening, with even distribution of roles (tanks/dps/heals). For republic there are a few top dps, a few top healers and a handful of undergeared/bad "tanks."

 

Games will repeatedly pop for both sides with tank/dps/dps/heal comps. But one faction has a much higher chance at success. And there is no chance the empire teams can get the "bads" on their teams because there are no cross faction comps.

 

It's really not as simple as you're trying to imply.

Edited November 23, 2013 by SenatorPalpaTANG

[Knightlyyy]

Waka is prob the foremost expert on Sin/shadows and one of the best players going round.

 

I agree with pretty much everything bar the low slash criticism.

 

Low slash i feel is a very strong CC simply b/c it has such a low cooldown.

You don't have to worry about picking "the right time" to hit your stun b/c of fear of having to wait for a lengthy cooldown and not having any CC's available when required.

 

It is super effective for peeling when running the 23/21/2 tank spec.

 

Also when playing full dps infiltration i find it useful to help contain an enemy if i want to preposition myself or just again peel for a friendly.

 

Having said that i agree with pretty much everything you said and i understand the context you were talking in was as a comparative skill set to PT/Vg.

 

Yes I agree and I think Waka would agree that Low Slash does bring a LOT to the table, obviously a skilled player is going to use it for more than just another Maul proc.

 

That being said - it does not make up for the lack of utility relative to Mara's and PT's.

 

Stealth is not a utility in arenas.

Sap is not a utility in arenas. (initial burst is never successful against a good team.)

 

Taunts

Low Slash

Knockback

 

Thats about it. Single target slow is nothing special. WW is a great ability but requires far more skill/awareness to utilize than what it *should* take. The knockdown from stealth is negligible.

 

Shadows/Assassins are missing some utility in competitive group arenas.

Shadows/Assassins mobility is lacking compared to Warriors and PT's.

 

With that being said - pull should be baseline ability for sins/shadows.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Knightlyyy

[Evolixe]

At least half of the stuff you spew on the forums is blatantly wrong, it almost defies logic. I seriously hope people don't validate what you say just because you rear your head in every imaginable forum thread

 

Assassins are unpowered, less so than a few other specs, but still far from optimal.

 

DPS operatives aside, they don't have comparable utility when compared to other sub-10m classes. Low Slash and taunts are a joke compared to PT aoe stun, baseline pull better slow, VASTLY superior sustained damage and survivability and taunts of their own.

 

And Maras? Don't get me started with the group buffs and instant aoe mezz...

 

Your "op maul" (what a joke that is) doesn't count for a damn thing when you're queued into a team with a fake tanking pt that laughs at your crits and melt you down in seconds.

 

Solo queue doesn't matter. You just hope you get matched with the less retarded players and pray to God that nobody disconnects, lags to hell and back or ragequits. Plenty of terrible/second rate players (from my server, anyway) are high up on the leaderboards. Means nothing.

 

Most good players don't bother with Assassins because they just aren't worth the time or the pointlessly additional required effort. As a result, most of the solo queue Assassins are especially terrible. Hence, why you don't see them topping the leaderboards in such droves.

 

I don't think or feel that way, thank you for contributing your opinion though it won't change anything.

 

You're always free to engage in a discussion if you don't agree with my statement.

[EtudezPvP]

The epeenz is strong in this thread.

[KamujinKravshera]

definitely not a fact. there isn't enough population for solo elo to mean anything...on top of countless other threads showing the wrong rating being rewarded for win/loss, 2200 vs 1200, etc

 

there's a reason why people are stuck in solo queues. it's because no one ever asks you bads to make a team.

 

solo queue is retard roulette and nothing more. if you play a certain class, you up the chance of winning a little bit. time of day also affects who your teammates are. look at a lot of the highest rated solo queue...they have played A LOT of games and they know exactly when they can farm, queue sync, or whatever else.

 

give me a break. 4s or ****

 

I like and respect you Xeno, but 4's are a circle jerk club of mediocre high play time streamers. Solo is the best measure of skill right now. Yes, it's chaotic, but the best players find a way to rise to the top of that chaos.

[Sabatiel]

I like and respect you Xeno, but 4's are a circle jerk club of mediocre high play time streamers. Solo is the best measure of skill right now. Yes, it's chaotic, but the best players find a way to rise to the top of that chaos.

 

no, it is not..

your skill is only 25% of success.. (win)

so 25% of your rating is your skill.. is it accurate then?

[Evolixe]

I like and respect you Xeno, but 4's are a circle jerk club of mediocre high play time streamers. Solo is the best measure of skill right now. Yes, it's chaotic, but the best players find a way to rise to the top of that chaos.

 

I would sooner say that neither are any good indication of anything. You can judge people the old fashioned way, by playing with and against them and building an opinion on experience itself.

 

I know it sounds hard. /sarcasm off

[Xertasian]

this discussion is becoming a mud slinging fest..see if i can simplify the point everyone trying to make in this thread..

 

sins overall they are lacking, sure they can still work in arenas solo or group ques..thats probably 1% of sins will excel in doing this regularly..compare to a smasher or pyrotech probably 96% of people will excel in arena solo or group que's..

 

this is the crux of the matter..there is a big difference in the skill curve of certain classes..sins can hold there own sure pretty much but not as easily as a mara or pt..mara's and pt can smash a few buttons and own most classes..because they are easier to play and there rotations are simple..sins dont really have a hard rotation it's just that if you screw up its less forgiving compared to a mara or pt..

 

what people want i feel is to make sins on par with most other dps classes..sure sins have good burst but against a well played team or very good healer it can almost be healed through..also 4 vs 4 is less forgiving with some classes compared to 8 vs 8..

 

basically sins is a poison of a class..until bioware addresses the problem..it gonna become a double edge sword..lastly player skill level also factor into account..maras and pt's dont require a very big skill level to be fairly sucessful for the class..sins dont require a very great skill level..but to make sins effective the player must work harder than a smash mara who can herp derp hit 3 buttons rinse and repeat..

 

saying maras and pyrotechs are op not the case..it is the easy use of class mechanic that make it excel..hell a backpedaling noob can put up decent stats with a smash mara for example..sins is a burst class thats only one spec..basically sins at least need some love where the average beginner can play the class and excel with it as a mara or pt..

 

closing arguments about madness sins..BIOWARE get rid of madness spec all together for sins..give us a new skill tree in it's place..madness works better for sorcs not a melee class as a sin..that will also make sins playable ..at the moment you do better playing maras and pyrotechs overall..just my 2 cents..

Edited November 23, 2013 by Xertasian

[KamujinKravshera]

I would sooner say that neither are any good indication of anything. You can judge people the old fashioned way, by playing with and against them and building an opinion on experience itself.

 

I know it sounds hard. /sarcasm off

 

That method is a much a measure of playtime, popularity, and pandering as it is skill. Which is why the leaderboards are computed using Elo and not player votes.