Hands-on with SWTOR's Galactic Starfighter

[Andryah]

With a locked reticle and a joystick, ill gladly let you think im at a disadvantage.

 

Targeting reticles actually should float with respect to navigation in a targeting system IMO. Further, your ships AI should in fact move toward the reticle unless you tell it to do otherwise (which frankly is what should happen if firing smart weapons). The only time you need a fixed reticle to your control stick would be when bringing non-smart weaponry that only fires line of sight in a forward pointing weapon only format.

 

Thing is.. as others have suggested... suspend bias and actually go play it first before deciding that it simply must conform to WWII style stick+gun mechanics.

 

People who like GS sooooo much they spend all their game time inside it... will likely want to customize their user interface as they see fit. And there are likely thousands of combinations available to players to do so, between interface hardware, software, etc. No way any game company can or should support all of that for what is one content element of a broader MMO. Those that just like to knock around in GS from time to time are likely served well with the UI mechanics as presented by Bioware.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Andryah

[LordArtemis]

Why does this argument line sound almost exactly like the arguments that supported visual progression?

 

"they are not going to remove visual progression because you want to be a special snowflake"

"so the game is a fail if they refuse to allow open customization"

"most players do not care about personal appearance, they care about end game"

 

Like it or not guys, this isnt about entitlement IMO. This is about appeal. This HAS to appeal to a wide audience, this game has had too much of "narrow audience" content already.

 

If...and that is a big if....if this turns out to be a bad design decision (mouselook instead of fixed reticule dogfighting) Bioware needs to be prepared to make changes quickly to the expansion feature. If not, they need to continue forward full steam ahead.

 

No one here, and I mean NO ONE but Bioware really has any inkling on what reaction has been like so far, if lack of native joystick support is an issue or not.

 

I would suggest folks try out the feature first and THEN make your judgements. If it was a mistake those that know better need to hold Bioware's feet to the fire...if it turns out to work, or if key assignment works just as well I believe we should not assassinate this feature simply because it does not meet all of our expectations at this juncture.

Edited November 15, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Mallorik]

Targeting reticles actually should float with respect to navigation in a targeting system IMO. Further, your ships AI should in fact move toward the reticle unless you tell it to do otherwise (which frankly is what should happen if firing smart weapons). The only time you need a fixed reticle to your control stick would be when brining non-smart weaponry that only fires line of sight.

 

Thing is.. as others have suggested... suspend bias and actually go play it first before deciding that it simply must conform to WWII style stick+gun mechanics.

 

People who like GS sooooo much they spend all their game time inside it... will likely want to customize their user interface as they see fit. And there are likely thousands of combinations available to players to do so, between interface hardware, software, etc. No way any game company can or should support all of that for what is one content element of a broader MMO.

 

Im sure I will like it, it wont change my opinion that bioware has again made a huge mistake for no reason other than just being clueless. This shouldn't be some big surprise to anyone, people have been saying for years, we want cockpit view and joysticks. Two reasonable and really easy to accomplish requests ignored, just like release.

 

And please quit using the excuse about all the different game controllers, they have been normalized for years now, any that aren't don't even work on a windows system newer than windows 98.

[LordArtemis]

Its not an excuse. Bioware is not a notty child. It is a point of view. You can certainly disagree, but an opinion that opposes your own does not necessarily defend Bioware.

 

To my knowledge we do not know why they chose KB mouse. We can speculate, sure...but we do not know. Only Bioware can speak to Bioware's intentions with respect to this design.

[Andryah]

And please quit using the excuse about all the different game controllers, they have been normalized for years now, any that aren't don't even work on a windows system newer than windows 98.

 

It's a pure maintenance and support decision by Bioware IMO.

 

Otherwise.. they put in full joystick UI.. followed by endless "wah!!!! meh joystick no work right!! fix it nao Biofail!!" followed by multiple cycles of CS trying to find out what specific joystick is being used, what UI setup was chosen.. etc. etc. etc... ultimately to find out the joystick is broken and the player needs a new one.

 

Whereas, keyboard and mice are pretty universal (more so then Joysticks_R_Us) .. if it works with your computer.. then it's working. End of discussion.

 

And NO.. game controllers have not been normalized for years. Windows has standards embedded.. and many products augment beyond them. Which is precisely why most controller products have their own software layer that comes with them out of the box.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Andryah

[LordArtemis]

It's a pure maintenance and support decision by Bioware IMO.

 

Mallorik, note the IMO part. Opinion, not excuse. It's likely to be the correct one as well in MY OPINION.

Edited November 15, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Mallorik]

Its not an excuse. Bioware is not a notty child. It is a point of view. You can certainly disagree, but an opinion that opposes your own does not necessarily defend Bioware.

 

To my knowledge we do not know why they chose KB mouse. We can speculate, sure...but we do not know. Only Bioware can speak to Bioware's intentions with respect to this design.

 

When someone says they did not add support because theres too many controllers out it is an excuse.

[LordArtemis]

When someone says they did not add support because theres too many controllers out it is an excuse.

 

When someone says they have a flat tire so they can't go into work, that is an excuse. When someone says they did not add support because gnomes have funny eating habits that is a subjective opinion.

 

There is no reason to make excuses. Bioware is certainly capable of defending themselves.

[Andryah]

When someone says they did not add support because theres too many controllers out it is an excuse.

 

Nonsense.

 

You have moved from discussing the topic to making ad hominem about other players. Everything expressed in a gaming forum is expression of opinion.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Andryah

[Vember]

I don't even own a joystick. I'm perfectly happy with it the way it is

[Andryah]

I don't even own a joystick. I'm perfectly happy with it the way it is

 

Yeah, I'm not completely sure yet if I will play it vanilla or setup a joystick.

 

What I do know is that I can set up a joystick and do so in any fashion I wish.. so I have the power to play GS the way I want and do not need the devs to hold my hand or bake me a special cupcake.

[Mallorik]

Never mind, you win. Bioware is right, they should alienate the main group of people who don't already play swtor but would love to play a star wars flight game. No big deal. I mean who am I to question bioware? look how well they did with swtor at release.

 

I guess im wrong now just like I was wrong in beta when I said releasing a AAA mmo in 2011 with 2003 qol features was a big mistake. and you all kept patting bw on the back saying they were dong it all right!

 

Cant say I didn't try, both times.

[PlasmaJohn]

And NO.. game controllers have not been normalized for years. Windows has standards embedded.. and many products augment beyond them. Which is precisely why most controller products have their own software layer that comes with them out of the box.

And you are quite wrong: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/HID1_11.pdf I draw your attention to Appendix D, pg. 64. Any number of axes, any number of switches. As long as the stick is HID compatible you can just plug and play. Just like a mouse. Yes the game has to be written to the HID joystick spec, just like mice have to be written to the HID mouse spec.

 

The crap software shipped is ostensibly to configure the device features (repeat rate, ranges, key remapping, macros, etc.) No different than the specialized mouse software many manufacturers insist is needed but isn't.

[Rafaman]

I wasn't a part of the beta, but from everything I've seen and read and the little homework I did today in preparation xpadder is going to work nicely. I'll be able to map one thumb stick to aim aka the reticle and the other thumbstick will control movement. Further I can map shields, power, etc to game pad buttons.

 

So, IMO, this joystick discussion... is academic. I'm playing with my 360 controller.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I've updated the OP with a link to an article over an MMORPG with their experience at the California community event. Edited November 15, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Andryah]

And you are quite wrong: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/HID1_11.pdf I draw your attention to Appendix D, pg. 64. Any number of axes, any number of switches. As long as the stick is HID compatible you can just plug and play. Just like a mouse. Yes the game has to be written to the HID joystick spec, just like mice have to be written to the HID mouse spec.

 

The crap software shipped is ostensibly to configure the device features (repeat rate, ranges, key remapping, macros, etc.) No different than the specialized mouse software many manufacturers insist is needed but isn't.

 

I'm not arguing the standards. I concede the standards exist. You missed my point completely.

[Andryah]

I wasn't a part of the beta, but from everything I've seen and read and the little homework I did today in preparation xpadder is going to work nicely. I'll be able to map one thumb stick to aim aka the reticle and the other thumbstick will control movement. Further I can map shields, power, etc to game pad buttons.

 

So, IMO, this joystick discussion... is academic. I'm playing with my 360 controller.

 

If I choose to go beyond the vanilla UI.. I will likely do exactly the same as you. A gamepad is frankly superior to a joystick in this case.

[Ingmar]

Its not an excuse. Bioware is not a notty child. It is a point of view. You can certainly disagree, but an opinion that opposes your own does not necessarily defend Bioware.

 

To my knowledge we do not know why they chose KB mouse. We can speculate, sure...but we do not know. Only Bioware can speak to Bioware's intentions with respect to this design.

 

Well, if it helps, Blaine Christine told me at the Cantina Tour that a big part of the decision was that they didn't want to differentiate the control scheme for the ground and space games too much.

[Trenter]

Quick question for those with hands-on experience, probably a stupid one: Did I get it right that even though you have some ship models unlocked by default and some unlockable with fleet requisition, they are all viable options to fly and be competitive in, depending on your playstyle?

 

For example, the Republic scout NovaDive is just as viable as the unlockable Flashfire if the playstyle suits you? The NovaDive can't be considered a starting ship that you will "outgrow", right?

[Vandicus]

Quick question for those with hands-on experience, probably a stupid one: Did I get it right that even though you have some ship models unlocked by default and some unlockable with fleet requisition, they are all viable options to fly and be competitive in, depending on your playstyle?

 

For example, the Republic scout NovaDive is just as viable as the unlockable Flashfire if the playstyle suits you? The NovaDive can't be considered a starting ship that you will "outgrow", right?

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

The default strike fighter was my personal favorite.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Vandicus

[Trenter]

Yes, that's correct.

 

The default strike fighter was my personal favorite.

 

Alright mate, thanks!

 

Anyone flew scouts and had fun with them? I have a thing for small, fast and nimble fighters so I'd love a comment or two about 'em in action

[GalacticKegger]

Alright mate, thanks!

 

Anyone flew scouts and had fun with them? I have a thing for small, fast and nimble fighters so I'd love a comment or two about 'em in action

They are quick as hell and you can fly chasers into openings just small enough to fit your ship's profile but too small for theirs. Advanced loadout is pretty smexy too, but they are flash paper. More so than any other craft, managing the blasters/shields/engines balance is critical imho. Edited November 15, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[GalacticKegger]

Well, if it helps, Blaine Christine told me at the Cantina Tour that a big part of the decision was that they didn't want to differentiate the control scheme for the ground and space games too much.

Maybe they'll eventually merge?

[Jamus_Divinus]

If after playing GS this weekend all I have to moan about is the lack of controller support I'll be an incredibly happy camper. This new system seems to have infinately more depth to it than anything else ingame.

 

I'm already half way to being won over after just reading the various guides.

 

PTS is up in roughly 45mins :hope_01:

Edited November 16, 2013 by Jamus_Divinus

[Trenter]

They are quick as hell and you can fly chasers into openings just small enough to fit your ship's profile but too small for theirs. Advanced loadout is pretty smexy too, but they are flash paper. More so than any other craft, managing the blasters/shields/engines balance is critical imho.

 

Sweet, sounds very promising then! And to me a great deal of the attraction from this type of fighter comes from the trade-off, that you have to sacrifice hull and firepower for speed and maneuverability. Keeps you on your toes! Looking forward to it!

Edited November 16, 2013 by Trenter