sith sorcerer a joke in PvP

[costelasleontin]

Ok just switched back from wow a month and a half ago when I herd about arena being introduced in swtor. Wow is just faceroll again for some clasess and I thought to give swtor a chance because unlike wow u can gear up to full gear with no restriction per week, has nicer interactive questlines and even pve is better with lesser tards which u always find at every corner in large groups.

Now I love the idea behinde sith sorcerer mecanics(ranged dps and based only on the force) but why I have discovered the following things still confusing me from patch 1.6:

-we are light armored but we are the single prob class that doesnt have armore ignoring abilities

-other classes have 2 imobilization removing abilities and we have none in dps specs(dont count 3 min barrier)

-we need talent for overload root and buble blind when others get that on the core class( in full madness the knockback doesnt pushback melees to actually even get 2 sec of breath room)

- think all other classes get dmg reduction abilities except us( 2% dmg reduction on the first tier madness talents for light armor is just scrap when actually scoundrell gets 4% on tier 2 I think)

-why we have 2 sec casts (crushing darkness, thunderblast) when enemy can los in 1.5 ( in some warzones its enough to walk half the stairs and u are actually losed) and if they waste 1 gcd to cast something they still have time for interrupt and regarding that why we have most casting abilities and still hit less than all other classes

-why crushing darkness and all of our dots tick between 500 and 1k when other classes dots can hit for 1.4k to 2k+ and I am in full unranked gear+ 1 ranked (pvp gear that is) when diference between my gear and the best gear prob is less than 25%

-why can I raise hand when some1 asks is there anybody in the room that has ever been globalled?

-why do we have 3 min def cd that lasts 10 sec and we can do nothing while its up and even on coruption the 10% heal that u get from it still makes the enemy wait with patient for the bubble to go down with dps cds prepared

-why do I have 4k max shield from what I saw on forums that gets insta obliterated and why backlash doesnt works sometimes and the same thing happens with overload imobilize in lightning tree(maybe defense stack is the answer and maybe talents that give imunities are the other answer )

Well prob 1 of the answeres would be like some1 wrote on the forums that this adv class got the MIDLE finger from bioware.

Yeah we have healing in dps specs and prob thats the only thing that works for us but every sorcerer out there would sacrifice self preservation 30s cd for much better cd to stop us from being globaled by smash monkeys and and not get pulled back every time we try to escape from them.

Oh and btw PVE guys pls stay out of this discution I know u are doing good but like always pvers satisfaction means usually pvpers frustration( just like in wow pve balancing means pvp hell) so could u PLEASE cut us some slack.

[Targetboy]

wall of text

[ishbindeinvater]

the glass is ok, but the cannon not

 

dots tick harder than what you say. last time i died because of a 1000 affliction dot.

 

i would say when you compare to sniper we are too easily to interrupt and dont do more damage and we lack a finisher. our defenses arent better either.

 

jut 1 or 2 changes and we would be fine i think.

 

knockback on thundering blast and a mezz-bubble for every spec (i would compare that to flash bang a bit, flash bang much better, but every agent got it).

lower cooldown on polarity shift, like the CD on entrench, 60 seconds

 

this would help a lot, but i would go much farther, because i think a sorc can be a much cooler class.

 

and i would get rid of shared ac trees for every class and make new third trees.

[cs_zoltan]

Stopped reading at no armor ignoring abilities. What about Affliction, Thundering Blast, Death Field, Creeping Terror? Get your facts straight before trying to QQ

[Chemic_al]

Stopped reading at no armor ignoring abilities. What about Affliction, Thundering Blast, Death Field, Creeping Terror? Get your facts straight before trying to QQ

 

Internal damage is not the same as having some armour penetration is it?

[cs_zoltan]

Internal damage is not the same as having some armour penetration is it?

 

No, and he wasn't talking about armor penetration, but armor ignore. What type of damage ingores armor in this game? Internal and elemental, so I don't see your point....

[costelasleontin]

fact is other classes have both armor penetration abilities and internal and elemental dmg abilities and they wear heavier armor than us

want an example look at guardian having both 20% ARMOR PENETRATION +PLASMA BRAND WHICH DEALS ELEMENTAL DMG

Edited November 18, 2013 by costelasleontin

[Devinia-Hex]

the glass is ok, but the cannon not

 

dots tick harder than what you say. last time i died because of a 1000 affliction dot.

 

i would say when you compare to sniper we are too easily to interrupt and dont do more damage and we lack a finisher. our defenses arent better either.

 

jut 1 or 2 changes and we would be fine i think.

 

knockback on thundering blast and a mezz-bubble for every spec (i would compare that to flash bang a bit, flash bang much better, but every agent got it).

lower cooldown on polarity shift, like the CD on entrench, 60 seconds

 

this would help a lot, but i would go much farther, because i think a sorc can be a much cooler class.

 

and i would get rid of shared ac trees for every class and make new third trees.

 

Affliction is very weak you can test that on a PVP dummy the only time you will get close to a 1k crit would be if you had good pve gear with power proc up and i would say that still might not be enough. Possible the person had the damage buff and the power relic up. But generally with 1200 ish Bonus damage 75% surge it crits for mid to high 800's lows in the 300-400 range even with Death Field up.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Yeah most of a sorc's damage is from casted, kinetic/energy damage attacks. Lightning in particular is harmed a lot by high armor targets. Just because we have a few internal damage abilities doesn't mean we don't have problems with armor. Armor debuffs exist in almost every dps tree except the sorcerer ones.

 

Is it a huge deal? Not really in my opinion, but it is still a valid complaint.

[Shenyu]

I'd be happy with a blink. That'd be nice.

 

Yeah.

[Razortron]

Totally agree with you im done healing arenas on my sorc now!

[costelasleontin]

ok time to add up to the crap

-our only viable defens is the 3 min barrier and we cant do nothing while its up but except that all the other defenses dont scale to defend us from multiple enemies ( like for example dmg reduction cd like the 2min -25% dmg some classes have afects dmg from multiple targets that hit u but our defensive heals and shield protect for same amount against 1 enemy or 3 enemies so in another words it doesnt scale with the number of enemies even thow we are light armor and can be pulled back by other 2 classes and imobilized by all dpsers )

- listen to this 1: we are masters of the force because we only use force powers not lightsabers but we cant knockback juggs and others dpsers because they are imune at certain times from that but we can be pushed back further by them and we stay on the ground for 2 secs because they are master of the lightsaber( think every sorc out there tried to pushback a jugg down from hight and they where imune while u got to be pushedback to death in return)

well just dont know who is the twerp that balances classes cause it made this nice class style called jedi sage/sith sorcerer based solelly on the FORCE and gave all the other classes the tools to gank it

Man today just hapened again to see a sorc gotten from 80% to 0 in 1 sec in arena map( was warzone actually) and as healer just didnt have physicall time to react on that, lucky for me my other teammates took their healer out before they could kill me cause they started smashing me like tards even with barrier up

Edited November 27, 2013 by costelasleontin

[Dimdeo]

I'd be happy with a blink. That'd be nice.

 

That'd be sweet :-)

Would you keep or lose the huttball when blinking? And could you blink upwards?

 

On a sidenote, i could use some pointers in PvP.

Been trying different builds but i feel like i could do better.

 

Corruption spec in 8v8, that's okay. In 4v4 I feel like i need to be supported by the whole team in order to heal.

Lightning spec only seems to work well if I stand still a lot (Thundering Blast especially).

Madness spec keeps me nice and mobile but enemies die slowly (can't burst)

 

For regular Warzones, Should i go for some sort of Hybrid Build? Or should i stick with healing?

(preference wise: Sorceror DPS or heal. Despite my slow reflexes and lack of swtor knowledge )

[Gaudrath]

That'd be sweet :-)

Would you keep or lose the huttball when blinking? And could you blink upwards?

 

On a sidenote, i could use some pointers in PvP.

Been trying different builds but i feel like i could do better.

 

Corruption spec in 8v8, that's okay. In 4v4 I feel like i need to be supported by the whole team in order to heal.

Lightning spec only seems to work well if I stand still a lot (Thundering Blast especially).

Madness spec keeps me nice and mobile but enemies die slowly (can't burst)

 

For regular Warzones, Should i go for some sort of Hybrid Build? Or should i stick with healing?

(preference wise: Sorceror DPS or heal. Despite my slow reflexes and lack of swtor knowledge )

 

I personally use a hybrid Lightning/Madness build that has served me quite well so far. Thundering Clap is nice when you pull it off, but as you said - it requires you to stand still a lot. Base damage-wise, it is actually a bit lower than Death Field, although if you factor crit on demand this isn't so for single target. Then again, Death field may not be crit on demand, but it's instant AoE - in my opinion actually better than TC.

 

Since there's quite a bit of synergy between Madness and Lightning, I think a hybrid madness/lightning is a better choice for Warzones than going either tree to the max. Such a build isn't so focused on single target damage as it is on blasting whole clumps of enemies with AoE, which I think is sorc's biggest strength.

[Critias]

That'd be sweet :-)

 

For regular Warzones, Should i go for some sort of Hybrid Build? Or should i stick with healing?

(preference wise: Sorceror DPS or heal. Despite my slow reflexes and lack of swtor knowledge )

 

It really depends on who you are playing against and if its WZ or Arena.

 

If ur playing against a dumb team you can rule with full lightning, because mostly they will just try to hack some juggs/maras/assasins on the frontline. and you can spam **** from range and dont have to worry about getting focussed.

 

If you are playing against a really good team, IMO the best choice is staying heal and pray ur mates will support you.

 

otherwise full madness. It gives you the best DPS-Mobility-ratio, a little bit of selfheal, dmg-reduce while stunned and one of your mainattacks permaslows singletarget. but even if you are good, against other really good players you will not without help. you will either lack burst or survivability. so just stay heal. or torture yourself and play full lightning against premades. ohhh the pain .. .

 

have a nice day

[Dimdeo]

Thanks guys!

 

I tried a couple different builds and either madness or a madness hybrid seems the way to go for DPS, staying mobile and being able to quickly LoS.

 

Tee hee hee i even tried a Corruption/Madness build which was fun for survivability (Fadeout+Resurgence+Dark Resilience). I could heal myself to full. But i could not make them pay

 

In the end i went back to healing, as there seems to be a lack of healers in the PUG pool on IMP side?

[Gaudrath]

otherwise full madness. It gives you the best DPS-Mobility-ratio, a little bit of selfheal, dmg-reduce while stunned and one of your mainattacks permaslows singletarget. but even if you are good, against other really good players you will not without help. you will either lack burst or survivability. so just stay heal. or torture yourself and play full lightning against premades. ohhh the pain .. .

 

To be honest, playing any ranged class against premades is more enjoyable than going melee. If you think playing a sorc against premades is a pain - try a Veng Jugg. That leap sure lights you up as a target while conveniently putting you right in front of the pain train.

[costelasleontin]

To be honest, playing any ranged class against premades is more enjoyable than going melee. If you think playing a sorc against premades is a pain - try a Veng Jugg. That leap sure lights you up as a target while conveniently putting you right in front of the pain train.

If u have any def cd rdy u will survive but as sorc except for barrier which makes u useless for the duraTION AND EXCEPT FOR THE 30% DMG REDUCTION WHILE CCED TALENT FROM MADNESS THERE IS NO WAY TO STOP THE TRAIN

sorcs and sages have like a huge target on top of their head in arenas and the only exception to that I have seen is If u are heal and u have a sniper in your team(as a healer I found out sniper is the only class I cant outheal while staing 20 yardz near and assasin is kinda balanced)

Edited December 1, 2013 by costelasleontin

[Gaudrath]

If u have any def cd rdy u will survive but as sorc except for barrier which makes u useless for the duraTION AND EXCEPT FOR THE 30% DMG REDUCTION WHILE CCED TALENT FROM MADNESS THERE IS NO WAY TO STOP THE TRAIN

sorcs and sages have like a huge target on top of their head in arenas and the only exception to that I have seen is If u are heal and u have a sniper in your team(as a healer I found out sniper is the only class I cant outheal while staing 20 yardz near and assasin is kinda balanced)

 

My comment was about warzones - not sure why anyone is bothering with ranked arenas at the moment, especially if they can't squeeze fun out of them.

 

In warzones, sorcerers frequently top the charts. And there you have plenty of ways to avoid being ganked. Arenas are too small for the kind of playstyle that favor the sorcerer. If they were made more complex, with multiple levels and/or methods of employing more complex team tactics, then yeah. But basically right now they're just fighting pits. Definitely not a place for a glass cannon archetype.

[Devinia-Hex]

If you have a healer hybrid is nice but if you don't you can get brought down to 50% of your life in a single stun sometimes more with shapeless spirit you can stop that as you nearly half stunned damage. Hybrid fixes force issues and is nice for damage but lacks survivability. In PVP you need to survive and Hybrid deosn't give you a lot of tools to do so other than lots of force.

 

A Madness spec can do equal damage to a hybrid in pvp and live longer but it runs into force issues and has no real answer for it. Damage is a little light on both sorc specs. Our damage has not moved up at all since before the expansion except through updated abilities and with the changes to expertise we are hitting for what we did before Makeb but eveyone has 6k more hp now. Plus most classes have been buffed to some degree and have stayed the same.

 

Example two juggs leap to smash lets be generous and say they only hit for 8k a piece that's 16lk and if you were at 75% or less your likely dead. Lets say you were at 90% your in execute range already and it kills you. Real work those smashes can hit from 9-10k and take 2/3 of your health in 2 moves. It would take about 6-8 Death fields maybe more to kill a jugg at 30k if he did nothing but stand there and wait for you to death field him on cooldown which would take 2 minutes or longer. Force Crush is also 18 seconds however enrage is 45 seconds and is reduced to 30 seconds when force crush is used. So you could stack force crush smash then enrage on your next smash and be about 6 seconds away from a second force crush. Through talents smash is up every 12 seconds. Smash gets a base buff of 20% Decimate+33.33% Shockwave+30% Armor Pen Shi-Cho Mastery+15% bonuse crit Dark Resonance and after Force Leap or Obliterate smash is an Auto Crit allowing them to stack all power surge.

 

We get 30% bonus damage to crit on Death Field which do you think is up quicker and hits harder? I'm sorry Bioware the math isn't adding up to me.

[Ryvirath]

It's very much a matter of learning how to play solo queues specifically. Make yourself an obstacle the other team has to trip over to kill and your team will come out ahead. Conversely if you make yourself an obstacle and they leave you alone, say hello to pain. I haven't had any trouble winning consistently.

[Morkatog]

I completely agree with the original poster for exactly the reasons he mentioned. As I said in my other post in my opinion we should get medium armor or a buff that gives us increased damage reduction to bring us on an equally competative level for PvP as other classes.

 

Sabain, perhaps instead of me now spending time reporting your post next time you could actually respect other people's opinions and try to come up with constructive arguments for your case and contribute something to the discussion in this topic.

[warstory]

lightning is not designed well at all. especially for arenas. I patiently await 2.6 patch notes, I very much doubt to see enough changes for playability.

[Vales]

lightning is not designed well at all. especially for arenas. I patiently await 2.6 patch notes, I very much doubt to see enough changes for playability.

 

Nothing really changes for Lightning in 2.6 sadly.

[AlatarTheGrey]

Sorcerer is no joke in PvP. It's one of the few classes with the flexibility to serve a number of roles, e.g. DPS, node guarding and limited healing.

 

I'm amazed at the sorcerers I randomly queue up with who don't even bother bubbling up their non sorc team members for the extra healing points. Takes hardly any time at all 10-15 seconds before the match start to throw up those protective bubbles to give your team mates that extra edge, or while we're waiting in the respawn area.

 

And the DPS damage we're able to do is more than competitive with nearly every other class in most arenas. We can either do AOE or single target damage, which again is more flexibility than most classes as well.

 

Yes, heavier armor would be nice. But I wouldn't trade it for the self heals and self protection abilities.

Edited January 9, 2014 by AlatarTheGrey