More tanks are required.

[Mazikeen]

I think the biggest issue for tanks and healers are that DPS are so overzealous when they finally get into an instance. I don't know how many marauders/sentinels I've run with that just go full retard with pulls. They leap ahead of the tank, they saber throw CC'd mobs, then they ***** in /group when they die. Snipers are constantly pulling ahead of the tank so as not to lose their free Snipe. Being a tank in a PuG in this game is exhausting. They should be dispensing Xanax to you people. I think that's the biggest reason you don't see more tanks in GF. Too many of you DPS are just retarded. It's easier to just pull together a group of trusted people and run it that way, than have to slip a disk trying to carry a bunch of pent up bads.

 

When I tank and the others pull this crap, I turn around and walk away. I stay close enough to watch, but far enough that if I want to run I can. Mobs won't leash in a FP but when you run them to the start, the rest of the group pitches in or they die again.

[LordArtemis]

I think a dual spec mechanic, or more specifically a "saved spec and quickbar" set would help here, something someone could swap out to on the fly that would allow them to change over to tank if the situation dictated it.

[Galtin]

I think a dual spec mechanic, or more specifically a "saved spec and quickbar" set would help here, something someone could swap out to on the fly that would allow them to change over to tank if the situation dictated it.

 

That would be a nice Christmas present for the entire SWTOR community.

[PhilD]

Threads like this make me so glad I have four able and willing tanks in my guild.

 

I originally leveled my Vanguard as a tank, going straight up the Shield Specialist tree, and started doing endgame content that way, but it really was a great deal of pressure for me. I was good at holding aggro and positioning bosses, less good at kiting, and some of the higher level boss mechanics don't favor an older dude with carpal tunnel.

 

I stopped playing that toon for a long time, leveled a sniper, then when one of my alts got into a guild I started playing the Vanguard again as well, re-speccing for DPS. I enjoy it a lot more. We have really good tanks, and everyone knows not to do ANYTHING until they open and combat initiates.

[Galtin]

Ya, it's pretty frustrating. I have been suggesting in posts that BW rework the threat mechanic for tanks. Taunt is supposed to be an "Oh S*&t" ability, not something that needs to be worked into a standard AoE mob pull. I play a VG tank. and in pulls where there are no immediate knock backs (Hammer Station droids), there is no reason that a mobs should peel off of me after my charge, two explosive surges and a proc'd pulse cannon.

 

As it sits right now, in an Operation, tanks have to swap AoE taunts to make sure that a giant pack of mobs don't go tearing off after DPS during a standard AoE pull. There's just no reason for that.

 

Not certain I totally agree with this. Last time I played WoW a few years back tanking was turned into EZmode where anybody could do it and DPS could go balls to the wall and not have to worry about pulling threat away from the tank. That dumbs down the game IMO.

 

I much prefer it where there is a fine line between tank threat generation and DPS/healing threat generation. If the tank isn't doing a good job, the mobs should peel off and start hitting on the DPS/healers.

[Mazikeen]

I think a dual spec mechanic, or more specifically a "saved spec and quickbar" set would help here, something someone could swap out to on the fly that would allow them to change over to tank if the situation dictated it.

 

While I would love to see a saved quickbar setup, we already have a field respec available and it's pathetically easy to zone out, hit the Fleet and respec that way as well. Waiting 5 minutes for someone to respec beats the 5-45 minute wait for a new tank.

[Njordulfr]

In this case, it's the player base's fault, not the devs.

 

You'll see, playing tank or healer is more difficult because as someone said, you do need to keep an eye on every other group member, so either you heal a certain member or take the aggro from them.

 

As tank, keeping the aggro on you can be difficult! and even if you constantly keep the aggro on you, some area attacks damage everyone and hit like a train (like the rocket launcher attack of the second boss in the Czerka Lab FP HM).

 

Now it is a very well known fact that some people have no patience and will quit right at the first attempt if it went wrong.

Also, if you sit and read the forums, you have tons of posts speaking of "how to be a good PVE/ PVP DPS" and not so many on how to be a good tank.

 

The lack of patience can be discouraging for healers and tanks. Many of my guildies decided to change to DPS because of that.

[jorill]

Part of the problem is the group size composition. They didnt think this through at launch with making the group size 4 instead of 5/6. This leaves alot more dps looking for groups. The only real way to fix this is to retune the fights but thats no easy fix.

[LordArtemis]

It wouldn't hurt to give tanks more damage mitigation and increased agro in PVE, as well giving healers better resource management and more powerful heals, also in PVE only.

 

Right now, IMO, both are tuned down for the sake of PVP, which is ridiculous. There should be innate boosts for PVE play to encourage folks to play these roles IMO.

[Slithers]

I have a Tank I have leveled up. I am currently getting used to tanking so when I do decide to do FP's I don't entirely suck. Hopefully players will be patient with me and know I am just learning.

[slafko]

While I would love to see a saved quickbar setup, we already have a field respec available and it's pathetically easy to zone out, hit the Fleet and respec that way as well. Waiting 5 minutes for someone to respec beats the 5-45 minute wait for a new tank.

 

What if those 5 minutes could be trimmed down to 30 seconds?

 

A "skillset template" that you can save and load. The template contains your skill point allocation and your quickbar skill placement. Say you're a Shadow, you have several templates saved: "ops tanking", "pve funz0rz tank", "infiltration v1", "infiltration v2". You then easily load the desired template, while out of combat, and continue slashing away.

 

An "equipment template" would allow you to save and load various gear sets. In case of our Shadow mentioned before: "tank gear", "dps gear lol" and "pvp troll gear".

 

You're re-specced, geared and ready to go in 30 seconds or less.

[jorill]

What if those 5 minutes could be trimmed down to 30 seconds?

 

A "skillset template" that you can save and load. The template contains your skill point allocation and your quickbar skill placement. Say you're a Shadow, you have several templates saved: "ops tanking", "pve funz0rz tank", "infiltration v1", "infiltration v2". You then easily load the desired template, while out of combat, and continue slashing away.

 

An "equipment template" would allow you to save and load various gear sets. In case of our Shadow mentioned before: "tank gear", "dps gear lol" and "pvp troll gear".

 

You're re-specced, geared and ready to go in 30 seconds or less.

 

definitely in favor of this idea

[LordArtemis]

What if those 5 minutes could be trimmed down to 30 seconds?

 

A "skillset template" that you can save and load. The template contains your skill point allocation and your quickbar skill placement. Say you're a Shadow, you have several templates saved: "ops tanking", "pve funz0rz tank", "infiltration v1", "infiltration v2". You then easily load the desired template, while out of combat, and continue slashing away.

 

An "equipment template" would allow you to save and load various gear sets. In case of our Shadow mentioned before: "tank gear", "dps gear lol" and "pvp troll gear".

 

You're re-specced, geared and ready to go in 30 seconds or less.

 

Yea, that is the point. A saved template to use, perhaps with a cooldown, of two setups of your choice, that includes your bar layout (GUI), ability positions and of course point layout.

 

I would even suggest it could have a cost to use, but you have the free option of doing it by hand.

[DarthTHC]

The situation with the class imbalance in FP queues has hit ridiculous proportions for DPS with 2 hour waits being the norm (16 hours without a pop was my record) and about 10-20 minutes for a healer. While tanks get an instant pop. (I gathered this info myself since I have a DPS, a healer and a tank character)

 

Something needs to be done to attract DPS or healer players to want to play a tank like adding more damage dealing capacity to tanks would be a good start to attract a DPS player to want to play a tank, or make the role of tank optional with some new 55 HMs so that DPS players can get their weekly done in a time-frame comparable to tanks.

 

What has prompted this is that I have noticed that several tanks are now charging 100k per DPS in a group for the 'privilege' of 'allowing' them to get their elite commendations. They usually do this by either forming their group in general fleet chat, or using the group finder then DEMANDING 100k off each DPS before they begin.

 

Seems like all those things you complained about would already be incentive for DPS to roll tanks, right?

 

Instead of waiting 16 hours for a flashpoint (really? 16 hours?), they could wait 0 seconds.

 

Instead of being extorted for 100k for a tank to do their job, they could instead extort 100k from each DPS in the group when they tank.

 

Problem solved. Next issue, please?

Edited November 14, 2013 by DarthTHC

[morfius]

One more thing nobody take in mind... what exactly I am going to take from those FPs as a tank after some little time?

Commendations to equip companions or alts ... that is all.

Most of you never looked at commendation vendors ... 6 tanking items (only 1 type of implant exist - with accuracy) has alacrity or accuracy on them... so why bother?

Every other role have option to full any item & slot (except main hand) with commendations - tanks not.

Heal/DPS items may not be optimal but still not have shield or absorption on them.

Some of us tanks just stop FPs grind short after begin to do OPs - they have to grind twice long than any other role - thanks but no Tanks.

I will not be punished with double grind just because most players want big numbers.

So until those comms items are redistributed - no way.

 

And last but not least, why to bother with pugging when with my wife heal character and a friend DPS we could simply 3 man old HM FPs (10 elites - when single mod/enhancement cost me 100 because of above?), take more credits, no ninja looting, do it just like we want (not running after DPS in amok or waiting for someone to come constantly)?

If we need 4th - guild is better option than PUG.

So some just stop to use PUG because of community... I am seen so much of it I could wrote a novel.

Edited November 14, 2013 by morfius

[Icebergy]

That may be the norm on their server and time of play.

 

You have to try and stop thinking everything is the same across all servers.

 

Dual spec would help with this. Allow players to switch loadouts (skill tree/hotbars/equipment) with the click of one button instantly.

 

Cross server queues would help with this.

 

Is EA looking at either? This will probably never happen so just get used to the long queue or wait for a new game to come out.

 

Dual spec would not help this, because people who want to tank and would be good at tanking are already tanking.

 

Cross server would not help this because one of the biggest reasons tanks do not queue is DPS player behavior. Cross server would make this issue even worse and then even less tanks would queue. I can tell you that I would not queue as a tank in a cross server queue.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Icebergy

[ImpactHound]

Seems like all those things you complained about would already be incentive for DPS to roll tanks, right?

 

Instead of waiting 16 hours for a flashpoint (really? 16 hours?), they could wait 0 seconds.

 

Instead of being extorted for 100k for a tank to do their job, they could instead extort 100k from each DPS in the group when they tank.

 

Problem solved. Next issue, please?

Sometimes you post bad things. I don't think this is a solution.

 

At this point players need to be provided an incentive to perform the role for random players.

[LordArtemis]

People learn how to play a tank just like any other class. People do not learn how to play a tank by leveling up. They learn by running FPs and Ops.

 

Any statements to the contrary are silly IMO. A person, IMO, could play as a healer or DPS the entire game, pick up tanking at end game and be in the same boat as someone that tanked the entire game.

 

Tanking in PVE casual play is NOTHING like tanking in FPs and Ops. Therefore, IMO, spec swap would have zero impact on how good people are at tanking...they would learn like anyone else.

[Chicktopus]

Main spec tank here. I have tanked, at max level, on both a guardian and a shadow.

 

As a tank, you have far more responsibility than other group members. You are the one who must lead the group through the flashpoint or operation, you are the one who must know fights like the back of your hand, you are the one who must train people who don't know them, you are the one who must come up with a strategy to beat an ops boss, assuming you don't just read from dulfy. You have to be aware of the position and aggro of every mob, particularly as a guardian who has poor aoe threat generation, you have to babysit DPS so they don't do anything stupid or die. You have to decide and mark and explain CC targets.

 

Pretty much this.

 

I play a Darkness Assassin as my main character, an Immortal Juggernaut as my primary alt as well as a Shield Specialist Vanguard. All are 55 and well geared. I also have two Rakatan-geard healers and a DPS from before RotHC.

 

Tank is a relatively challenging role and requires constant vigilence and a degree of knowledge above what other roles need, although I don't think this is the offputting factor. What's offputting about tanks is their pitiful damage and limited room for maneuverability. I'm not a fan of the combat system in this game -- I resent not being allowed to move freely in a fight without compromising my effectivity but tanks get it worst when outisde of group content because their poor dps prolongs fights. This in turn makes the quality of life of a tank plummet as a task which would take a DPS role 15 minutes may take the tank 40, but to be fair healers also suffer from this.

 

Then there's the issue that tanking requires an entirely different set of gear. While a healer may get away with DPS armour, a tank cannot. There are three options -- level tank spec and spend longer levelling as a result, level dps and then build up a different set of gear at max level (bearing in mind that this will mean you either spend twice the time collecting gear or spend a long time in sub-par gear), or the less-viable third option of collecting tanking gear as you level (which consumes a large portion of inventory space as well as requiring you spend time finding and updating the set as you level). If you want to dual-spec, DPS and tank you'll still have to lug around two sets of armour and spend the money maintaining and upgrading both.

 

I can see why people don't play tanks. They either find it boring because their solo play is spent chipping away at health bars until the enemy falls over and their group play is following a strict set of tactics and hoping to dear god their party knows what they're doing and doesn't get everyone killed, even taking the brunt of the blame for other people's mistakes.

 

TL;DR: Why bother aiming for a specialisation which outputs poor damage, demands prior knowledge of encounters and requires the collection and maintenance of a set of armour which is only viable for this spec. All this when the reward is the responsibility to babysit and instruct people who may or may not know what they're doing?

[DarthTHC]

Sometimes you post bad things. I don't think this is a solution.

 

At this point players need to be provided an incentive to perform the role for random players.

 

Really? Why?

 

It's ridiculously easy to tank (up through HM flashpoints which was the OP's complaint) in this game. The only thing that makes it hard is stupid players. The game itself, assuming competent players properly equipped, offers no challenge.

 

If people don't like long DPS queues, they can roll tanks or healers. Learning either role is easy. Performing either role is easy. I know. I do it all the time. Then they'll get a quick tank or healer queue.

 

What people really seem to be asking for is to be carried through flash points by competent teams of tanks and healers. They want to be carried through because they don't want to deal with the incrementally additional mental effort required to tank or heal. It's pathetic, really.

 

Honey, I'm too lazy to get my fat self off the couch and walk to the fridge. Could you please bring me a beer?

 

More tanks are required.

 

Then roll one.

Edited November 14, 2013 by DarthTHC

[ImpactHound]

I agree that it's easy to tank and heal, but because the community has been perpetually understaffed in these roles for two years in group play it's clear nothing has changed or is going to.

[Sivn]

Lack of tanks is a problem that has plagued every MMO and stems from a lack of good AI which birthed the aggro mechanic.

 

Hopefully new MMOs have a solution to this, in fact im sure i read that Elder scrolls and EQnext may have new ways around this.

[Vandicus]

I agree that it's easy to tank and heal, but because the community has been perpetually understaffed in these roles for two years in group play it's clear nothing has changed or is going to.

 

To be frank, I agree with DarthTHC's principle that the best way for any person to solve their "long DPS queue time" problem is to respec to tank/heals, or roll a class with tanking/healing capabilities. However, even though mediocre or rude players(in any role) drive away some tanks/healers, these players, despite being rude or mediocre at their role, are also paying into the game. I don't think that it'd hurt to design a system to further encourage people to spec into tank and heal roles to make the groupfinder experience better for those who use it.

[StarMagus]

I'm not going to lie, in another game that Rhymes with CoW, I had a healer friend and we would offer DPS instant Que Times in exchange for gold. We made enough money over the course of a week or two to afford all of the high priced mounts we wanted and for all the top in crafted stuff that were upgrades for us.

 

I never thought about doing the same here, but..... 100K you say for each DPS? That's better faster money then running dailies for something that I would have done anyway.

[DarthEccen]

I'm leveling a tank spec Vanguard, if that helps.