Money for nothing

[StarMagus]

SWTOR is a service you pay for. Playing endgame content (operations) is a key feature. If an operation is bugged, the service is flawed. You either get your money back or the price is lowered if you still find certain value in the service. If there was an option to pause subscription for days or weeks, then it would be fine, they would not get money until they fix the issue. Trust me, it would be done in a day.

 

Meh, I don't get any money back from my season ticket to an amusement park if one of their rides is broken.

[MahneWarrior]

The two groups are not mutually exclusive. Hard mode players purchase cartel coins, etc.

 

Point remains that hardmode players just like pvpers are in the minority. Looking at the larger picture I am sure more players simply play for the story and mess around with the CM.

 

As someone mentioned before, hard mode require a certain set of skills and time that many are not willing to invest. I do hard mode opes and I buy my fair share of cartel coins, but if I were a running this game for profit I would look at the data and see which player group nets the most profit. I will tell ya this it sure is not the hardcore pvpers and pvers.

[branmakmuffin]

Meh, I don't get any money back from my season ticket to an amusement park if one of their rides is broken.

The mature response is to break rides you personally don't care about so you can prevent others from enjoying them.

[curtkram]

If you think that is a problem that is fixed in a week, you shouldn't think anything about their skills, because its clear that you don't actually understand software development, and are thus in no position to judge anyone's skills.

 

Lesson: Most bugs will take more than one development cycle to fix (assuming modern "short" development cycles). When the bug is reported, one development cycle is already underway. Unless it is absolutely critical, the bug will be analyzed, assigned to the appropriate group, and then scheduled for the next available development cycle. Very few bugs are going to be so urgent that a development team will be pulled off their current work to fix a bug. So, in most cases with SWTOR, a bug will be spotted one week, scheduled for fixing the week after. If the bug is viewed as not being that serious, it may wait multiple development cycles, as other more important work is prioritized ahead of it.

 

good to see someone on here who knows a lot about bioware's staff and how it's managed, rather than just a forum troll who likes to pretend to be smart despite considerable evidence to the contrary.

 

i have some questions for you, since i admittedly know very little about bioware's development process (more communication would always be good).

 

1. was this operation tested before release? from what i've heard, they did run some beta tests of dread fortress, but dread palace was rushed out the door to meet their deadline.

 

2. if they did test this operation, did the rng grenade problem show up? for example, did the rng grenade show up in the tests, but nobody noticed? or was this a bug that surfaced after the test due to some sort of unanticipated 'other' element when going live?

 

3. is this working as intended? do you know if the team creating the mechanics of this operation wanted the grenade to happen at the same time as the laser, or do you know if they did not want this to happen, or do you know if they just don't really care about mundane details like that? did they release this knowing it would cause automatic wipes based on the rng?

 

4. if this operation was rushed, how did that happen? did they not set the schedule far enough in advance? was the team involved in developing mechanics not told about what schedule they had to work around? was there some sort of unanticipated event that caused everything to go to **** too close to the end date for them to adequately react? is it common among development teams in general to not concern themselves with their deadlines, and instead release unfinished content knowing most of their users are happy with unfinished content and the knowledge that it will be fixed when they aren't occupied with something more pressing?

 

thanks in advance for you help clarifying these questions.

[MillionsKNives]

good to see someone on here who knows a lot about bioware's staff and how it's managed, rather than just a forum troll who likes to pretend to be smart despite considerable evidence to the contrary.

 

i have some questions for you, since i admittedly know very little about bioware's development process (more communication would always be good).

 

1. was this operation tested before release? from what i've heard, they did run some beta tests of dread fortress, but dread palace was rushed out the door to meet their deadline.

 

2. if they did test this operation, did the rng grenade problem show up? for example, did the rng grenade show up in the tests, but nobody noticed? or was this a bug that surfaced after the test due to some sort of unanticipated 'other' element when going live?

 

3. is this working as intended? do you know if the team creating the mechanics of this operation wanted the grenade to happen at the same time as the laser, or do you know if they did not want this to happen, or do you know if they just don't really care about mundane details like that? did they release this knowing it would cause automatic wipes based on the rng?

 

4. if this operation was rushed, how did that happen? did they not set the schedule far enough in advance? was the team involved in developing mechanics not told about what schedule they had to work around? was there some sort of unanticipated event that caused everything to go to **** too close to the end date for them to adequately react? is it common among development teams in general to not concern themselves with their deadlines, and instead release unfinished content knowing most of their users are happy with unfinished content and the knowledge that it will be fixed when they aren't occupied with something more pressing?

 

thanks in advance for you help clarifying these questions.

 

Your ad hominem attempt to discredit him doesn't make him any less correct.

 

Also, it's a minor issue, the content can be cleared, it will be fixed, move along.

[ImpactHound]

And the post to which you replied (at least the part you quoted) did not state or imply that they were mutually exclusive.

 

They did imply it.

 

The mature response is to break rides you personally don't care about so you can prevent others from enjoying them.

 

You steal clyde pins from the Scrambler cars too? I knew I wasn't the only one.

[varietasplus]

Your ad hominem attempt to discredit him doesn't make him any less correct.

 

Also, it's a minor issue, the content can be cleared, it will be fixed, move along.

 

 

I would like to see how you acted if your car mechanic told you:

 

"While 4th gear is no longer available in your car after the latest service, it is a minor issue, you can still go home with it, it will be fixed in a month, move along".

[Suromir]

No patch for today, so the new operations on hard mode remain extremely hard to complete, but they did have the time to implement the ingame Cartel Coin Purchase option. Priorities, priorities.

 

If your programmers can not fix these issues in a week's time, what should we think of their skills?

Or if they could have but resources were assigned for CCP, what should we think of EA/Bioware?

 

Either way, another PR fail.

 

Wow.....that sentence alone invalidates any point you have with this QQ thread.

 

Hard Mode Operation is Hard to complete????!!!!?!?!?!?!?! fail bio..fail.

[branmakmuffin]

I would like to see how you acted if your car mechanic told you:

 

"While 4th gear is no longer available in your car after the latest service, it is a minor issue, you can still go home with it, it will be fixed in a month, move along".

And thus we again grow the list of "Inapt Internet Analogies" by one.

[MillionsKNives]

I would like to see how you acted if your car mechanic told you:

 

"While 4th gear is no longer available in your car after the latest service, it is a minor issue, you can still go home with it, it will be fixed in a month, move along".

 

More like, "We currently don't have the part to fix your A/C unit but the fan system still works. We'll have it back in stock in a week or so, come back and we'll get you all set."

[curtkram]

Your ad hominem attempt to discredit him doesn't make him any less correct.

 

Also, it's a minor issue, the content can be cleared, it will be fixed, move along.

 

i was just asking some questions. clearly you aren't able to provide answers, so you if you would kindly refrain from trying to change the subject and resort to personal attacks, i would appreciate it.

 

as has been stated before, unless i'm mistaken, which i fully admit is possible, the content cannot be cleared unless the grenade happens to hit the right people by chance.

[Andryah]

People keep forgetting that this in-game CC purchase feature was supposed to be implemented 2 months ago, but they pulled it for having a bug and put it on the back burner for a good long while. That's not exactly a fast fix.

 

If the resources were the same as the CM team there, they would have pulled Dread Fortress entirely for 2 months while they fixed it.

 

Just because they haven't got the fix for Corruptor Zero (after the last two patches just caused a new issue), doesn't mean they're prioritizing something else. The developers working on operations aren't the same people working on the website and money transactions.

 

/Agree.

 

The ability to differentiate cause and effect, articulate context, and understand that not all resources are the same.

[VarKoE]

i was just asking some questions. clearly you aren't able to provide answers, so you if you would kindly refrain from trying to change the subject and resort to personal attacks, i would appreciate it.

 

as has been stated before, unless i'm mistaken, which i fully admit is possible, the content cannot be cleared unless the grenade happens to hit the right people by chance.

 

You actually got a better answer than your post deserved, just not one you wanted so you called him a troll. However, by all means feel free to carry on with your rant. Your welcome on bumping your obvious troll post.

[MillionsKNives]

i was just asking some questions. clearly you aren't able to provide answers, so you if you would kindly refrain from trying to change the subject and resort to personal attacks, i would appreciate it.

 

as has been stated before, unless i'm mistaken, which i fully admit is possible, the content cannot be cleared unless the grenade happens to hit the right people by chance.

 

Just some simple questions that aren't dripping with contempt and implication that both the devs are incompetent and that since Malastare is not a BioWare employee, and as such cannot answer those questions, he doesn't know what he's talking about, I'm sure. Also please point out my personal attack. Calling you out for yours is not a personal attack.

 

While I admit that I may have misinterpreted the tone of your questions and they are in fact simple sincere questions, their content and structure highly suggest otherwise.

 

A mechanic that can go bad with RNG may be bugged or badly designed but it doesn't make it impossible. It can be cleared, and people have been doing as much.

[curtkram]

You actually got a better answer than your post deserved, just not one you wanted so you called him a troll. However, by all means feel free to carry on with your rant. Your welcome on bumping your obvious troll post.

 

4 questions does not constitute a rant. i know that you're unable to answer a few fairly simple questions. i know you don't know what's actually going on in the world around you. if you are unable to answer those questions, then why post? what do you gain from drawing more attention to the questions i asked? does it make you feel better to anonymously call people on the internet a troll? does that somehow make you think you're stronger?

 

MillionsKNives, saying my post was "ad hominem" implies you think this is a conversation about personalities instead of a conversation about bioware's development process. my 4 questions were all directed towards bioware's development process. none of the questions even hinted at the personal life or motives of the person i was replying to.

 

i did pose possibilities that would suggest it could have been management or unanticipated problems rather than developers. each number has a broad question followed by questions that are more pointed toward what i think are possible answers. i wasn't blaming anyone. i think your accusation of "contempt" is not supported by what i am actually asking.

 

i don't know whether Malastare is or is not a bioware employee or has any other insight into their process that i don't understand. what i do know is that he presented himself as someone who understands their development cycles better than most. he actually included a "lesson" in his post. asking a teacher questions is a good and healthy way to learn new things. the assumption that everyone is out to attack you is not. if malastare does not have the insight implied in the lesson he provided, then would suggest that might be intellectually dishonest and should be avoided.

[TUXs]

Um...they actually told us that this was all they were doing today...it's not some shock. I wish they'd have added more fixes, but they didn't...I wasn't mislead by today's patch...it's exactly what they said it would be.

[Thylbanus]

No patch for today, so the new operations on hard mode remain extremely hard to complete, but they did have the time to implement the ingame Cartel Coin Purchase option. Priorities, priorities.

 

If your programmers can not fix these issues in a week's time, what should we think of their skills? Other than playing games, what qualifications do you have to make such a statement?

Or if they could have but resources were assigned for CCP, what should we think of EA/Bioware? That they are doing their job. Unlike you, who failed to do any research to find out that the in-game Cartel Coin option was supposed to go live months ago and had to be delayed. Some people were actually pretty pissed off that it didn't go off as planned.

 

Either way, another PR fail.

 

Another armchair software project manager spouting off again. A few years playing MMOs does not qualify you as an expert, especially since you did not even check to the history of this issue. It amazes me how many times these posts come up. I know that people have a tendency to shoot their mouths off, but in a forum, you have time to assess what you post. Take the time you are afforded and use it to do research. That's the real fail here.

 

It's just more fun to go off and rant away. Well, ask yourself one thing before you hit [submit Reply]: Will this statement make me look like an idiot? You can edit your post later, but in all likelihood someone will quote you, so that isn't always an option. So please, in the future, do some research about what you want to post about before doing so.

 

For a final thought about going off about things, consider what a real software project manager once said, "If you think you know a better way, feel free to jump into the industry. We're looking for that magical method you think you have."

[Baaddare]

 

you are skewing old with that reference

[AlienEyeTX]

you are skewing old with that reference

 

Hey! I resemble that remark...

 

[VarKoE]

Another armchair software project manager spouting off again. A few years playing MMOs does not qualify you as an expert, especially since you did not even check to the history of this issue. It amazes me how many times these posts come up. I know that people have a tendency to shoot their mouths off, but in a forum, you have time to assess what you post. Take the time you are afforded and use it to do research. That's the real fail here.

 

It's just more fun to go off and rant away. Well, ask yourself one thing before you hit [submit Reply]: Will this statement make me look like an idiot? You can edit your post later, but in all likelihood someone will quote you, so that isn't always an option. So please, in the future, do some research about what you want to post about before doing so.

 

For a final thought about going off about things, consider what a real software project manager once said, "If you think you know a better way, feel free to jump into the industry. We're looking for that magical method you think you have."

\

 

You sir or ma'am are way to rational to post here. How did you get in here.

[Andryah]

\

 

You sir or ma'am are way to rational to post here. How did you get in here.

 

LOL..... Thylbanus is both refreshing and welcome IMO.

[Thylbanus]

oh come on now, what gives Thylbanus the right or special privelage of being able to judge other people, whereas varietasplus should be relegated to the lower caste of potential critics that are unfit for posting in a forum with people like you? that's an actual question, not "ad hominem hyperbole."

 

that post had nothing to do with being rational just as your post in no way makes you a decent human being capable of presenting a well thought out opinion. varietasplus may or may not be mistaken in the opinion they presented here, but (s)he isn't any more of an 'armchair project manager' than Thylbanus. calling someone an 'armchair project manager' does not make you or him special. we're all part of the same decaying organic matter posting on the forums. you are no more capable of making a rational contribution to this conversation than varietasplus. attacking people who are critical of the game does not make a person "rational."

 

 

congratulating someone for being an *** hole makes you look like an idiot.

 

Did you just ask what gave them and myself the right to judge and then judge us?

 

LOLZ!!!

 

And like AlienEyeTX said, you might want to read my post before commenting on it.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Thylbanus

[AlienEyeTX]

<snip>

attacking people who are critical of the game does not make a person "rational."

 

No, not necessarily. But, making a well-constructed, considered, and accurate statement goes a long way toward "rational." One does not need to be a developer to understand the development process and point out when someone else is mistaken.

 

You, sir/ma'am, seem to be taking this too hard. The post was spot-on. Sorry if you don't like to read the truth.

[curtkram]

Did you just ask what gave them and myself the right to judge and then judge me?

 

LOLZ!!!

 

i was talking to VarKoE. pay attention.

[MillionsKNives]

4 questions does not constitute a rant. i know that you're unable to answer a few fairly simple questions. i know you don't know what's actually going on in the world around you. if you are unable to answer those questions, then why post? what do you gain from drawing more attention to the questions i asked? does it make you feel better to anonymously call people on the internet a troll? does that somehow make you think you're stronger?

 

MillionsKNives, saying my post was "ad hominem" implies you think this is a conversation about personalities instead of a conversation about bioware's development process. my 4 questions were all directed towards bioware's development process. none of the questions even hinted at the personal life or motives of the person i was replying to.

 

i did pose possibilities that would suggest it could have been management or unanticipated problems rather than developers. each number has a broad question followed by questions that are more pointed toward what i think are possible answers. i wasn't blaming anyone. i think your accusation of "contempt" is not supported by what i am actually asking.

 

i don't know whether Malastare is or is not a bioware employee or has any other insight into their process that i don't understand. what i do know is that he presented himself as someone who understands their development cycles better than most. he actually included a "lesson" in his post. asking a teacher questions is a good and healthy way to learn new things. the assumption that everyone is out to attack you is not. if malastare does not have the insight implied in the lesson he provided, then would suggest that might be intellectually dishonest and should be avoided.

 

It was an attempt to discredit what he says by asking questions that only a BioWare employee can answer. By establishing that he is not a BioWare employee you can then use that as an excuse to dismiss what he says. The questions you asked were completely tangential from what he said. They are not meant to be answered, only to show that he doesn't know everything they do. You never expected an answer, don't pretend that you did.

 

Your last sentence proves your intent. It was an attempt to distract from what he actually said. It was ad hominem as you are looking to discredit the poster instead of his argument.