Sorcerer Changes Brainstorming

[bananaface]

Responded on the thread in the PvP forums with this aswell, but though it might be a good idea to place it here aswell since dev's actually made this thread.

So here are just a few suggestion I came up with.

I must note, sage/sorc isn't my main but I do have one as alt.

It aint fun getting a free kill in wz's and arena when you see one, mainly in arena (yay other team has a sage/sorc, we won!)

 

Force speed removing stuns roots and slow and making you immune to them for the duration much like blink.

Doesn't make it OP cause people will just have to wait 2 seconds before they can charge again, only baddies will waste their charge and stuns.

 

Reduced cd on force slow and increased duration or simply remove the cd since it costs force to use.

Pretty much every class with a slow can spam it, it's just hella frustrating that a sorc/sage can't.

Should even out the playfield a bit.

 

Lolknockback 360 degree and not 180 and make it root baseline (same as sniper).

Missing the current frontal cone due to serverlag or w/e dodgy reason is just...yeah.

 

Stun on a lower baseline cd, something like 40 seconds (30 seconds talented) and/or increased range.

 

+100 total force baseline, it's something everyone takes so why not make it baseline and replace it with the force regen of subversion/concentration and make these buffs proc from force lightning and telekinetic throw aswell, it would defo help with the crappy regen of madness/balance.

To fill up the empty space of a skill point option on the 2nd tier, well you can props think of something usefull.

 

Cast pushback removed, cause it's not needed with the amount of ways to interupt a cast in this game.

[Critias]

My 2 Cents:

 

 

- Affliction applies 20% Armor Reduce

Its a baseline spell, usable by all speccs, all other classes have a armor reduce afaik, but not the sorc

 

- Remove all Crushing Darkness Stuff from the Lightning Tree. Keep the Affliction-Stuff, its OK. Lightning should be around Lightning and not 3127831 Dots.

 

- Make Thundering Blast an instant cast, 2 Sec on 9 Sec CD? Come on, its a pain in the ***. DMG is good.

 

- give Lightning more benefits from alacrity, maybe add the alacrity-% to forked ligthning procc chance or so

 

- remove the alacrity-stacking-buff from the madness tree, replace it with force-reg (dot crits restore x% force)

 

- add some burst to madness, maybe about creeping terror (additional instant dmg when casted, same like crushing darkness, or make it increase overall dmg for a few seconds). atleast something for pvp, madness needs freaking much ramp-up-time

 

- give us the ability to cast atleast one or two spells withing force barrier. it shouldnt be like the pala-bubble in WoW, but just standing around doing nothing is .. idk ... idiotic? yeah my mates can heal but most of the time sorc dont get any attention from other teammates ... i mean they die in a few seconds after bubble anyway

 

 

Have a nice day.

[Cempa]

I think part of the issue is other classes and builds and how easy they are to play -specifically how easy the talents/abilities make it to stay on target.

 

Thing is if you make it easier for Sorcerer to create gap in PvP the really good players are going to destroy everything in sight, but if you don't make it easier for Sorcerer to create space and keep distance, most Sorcerers will have a horrid gaming experience.

 

How melee is designed in this game is far too dumbed down..just my opinion :/

[AdrianDmitruk]

I think part of the issue is other classes and builds and how easy they are to play -specifically how easy the talents/abilities make it to stay on target.

 

Thing is if you make it easier for Sorcerer to create gap in PvP the really good players are going to destroy everything in sight, but if you don't make it easier for Sorcerer to create space and keep distance, most Sorcerers will have a horrid gaming experience.

 

How melee is designed in this game is far too dumbed down..just my opinion :/

 

There is truth to this, but what exactly keeps the really good players from destroying everything now with OP specs?

[Daex]

Some people have much more to say, but they feel like the thread has been forgotten.

 

Devs, give us a hint that you are reading this. Some people made really good complaints, advices, suggestions and I am sure more would have even better ideas.

 

I do hope you guys will read and understand some of our complaints. If you want, I can record it all and prove it.

I still remember when we reported (on PTS) the Merc's slow animation on Electro Net and backed up the claim with the video. You guys fixed it just before the patch went live. I still remember even tho you never answered on that thread! My friends and I were so pleased! This time would be nice, just a hint .

[Monterone]

Here's how I would tackle a few major issues shared across the trees:

 

1) Change the placement of two talents in the Lightning tree, in order to fix the Madness force issues. Lightning Effusion goes down to tier 1, and Chain Shock moves up to tier 3 to take its spot. This doesn't affect Corruption at all as Lightning Effusion has no effect on healing abilities, however it balances out the force regen capabilities of both dps trees. By balancing out, I mean it gives both dps trees two ways to regen force.

 

Currently, Lighting has Effusion as well as Subversion, while Madness only gets Sith Efficacy. For as mobile as Madness is supposed to be, especially with no AoE roots and crowd control in the tree, requiring Madness to sit still and channel is debatable as an effective method of force regen.

 

This change would give each dps tree one unique way of force regen, Subversion and Sith Efficacy, while allowing both to take a shared talent, Effusion -- giving each tree two talents. I look at that as balanced.

 

2) Change the placement of two talents in the Corruption tree. Move Fadeout down to tier 1, while moving Force Suffusion up to tier 4. Dps trees really never take Force Suffusion, so that talent being in tier 1 really makes no sense. Fadeout being accessible to dps sorcs is universally accepted as a necessity for sorc survivability and would go a long way towards making dps sorcs become viewed as more viable in arenas, even without a perfect team composition.

 

 

Beside those two changes, I would also make Corrupted Speed in Corruption add a full second to Force Speed. On top of that I'd either change Reverse Corruptions to completely remove the health cost from Consumption instead of decreasing the force regen debuff by 3 seconds, or alternatively make Dark Resilience decrease the health cost by 5/10% instead of 2/4%.

[PloGreen]

Set bonuses need work on pvp gear.

 

Instant lift needs to return baseline.

 

Force cost of barrier in balance should be reduced.

 

We need an ability to make polarity shift and force barrier be reset, much like ice mages could reset iceblock in wow on a very long cooldown, tie it to healing tree.

 

Barrier cooldown should be reduced.

 

Drain spell, or some form of evocation to recharge force in the balance tree.

 

Force in balance should give 1% force when used on each target.

 

Tk needs a blink spell, or 25-30m teleport

 

Force speed should break all roots in all trees.

 

Pick any of those, but instant force lift needs to return. Its wrong that it was removed. It fits the class playstyle and it never really recovered when it was removed.

 

I know these are sage terms but no one is talking about this stuff on sage forum. ty

Edited November 30, 2013 by PloGreen

[AdmiralParmesan]

Here's how I would tackle a few major issues shared across the trees:

 

1) Change the placement of two talents in the Lightning tree, in order to fix the Madness force issues. Lightning Effusion goes down to tier 1, and Chain Shock moves up to tier 3 to take its spot. This doesn't affect Corruption at all as Lightning Effusion has no effect on healing abilities, however it balances out the force regen capabilities of both dps trees. By balancing out, I mean it gives both dps trees two ways to regen force.

 

Currently, Lighting has Effusion as well as Subversion, while Madness only gets Sith Efficacy. For as mobile as Madness is supposed to be, especially with no AoE roots and crowd control in the tree, requiring Madness to sit still and channel is debatable as an effective method of force regen.

 

This change would give each dps tree one unique way of force regen, Subversion and Sith Efficacy, while allowing both to take a shared talent, Effusion -- giving each tree two talents. I look at that as balanced.

 

2) Change the placement of two talents in the Corruption tree. Move Fadeout down to tier 1, while moving Force Suffusion up to tier 4. Dps trees really never take Force Suffusion, so that talent being in tier 1 really makes no sense. Fadeout being accessible to dps sorcs is universally accepted as a necessity for sorc survivability and would go a long way towards making dps sorcs become viewed as more viable in arenas, even without a perfect team composition.

 

 

Beside those two changes, I would also make Corrupted Speed in Corruption add a full second to Force Speed. On top of that I'd either change Reverse Corruptions to completely remove the health cost from Consumption instead of decreasing the force regen debuff by 3 seconds, or alternatively make Dark Resilience decrease the health cost by 5/10% instead of 2/4%.

 

These are very simple changes that would make a big difference.

 

Although for example I would perfer egress to be baseline, these changes would still work and are probably more realistic for what bioware might do.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Here's how I would tackle a few major issues shared across the trees:

 

1) Change the placement of two talents in the Lightning tree, in order to fix the Madness force issues. Lightning Effusion goes down to tier 1, and Chain Shock moves up to tier 3 to take its spot. This doesn't affect Corruption at all as Lightning Effusion has no effect on healing abilities, however it balances out the force regen capabilities of both dps trees. By balancing out, I mean it gives both dps trees two ways to regen force.

 

Currently, Lighting has Effusion as well as Subversion, while Madness only gets Sith Efficacy. For as mobile as Madness is supposed to be, especially with no AoE roots and crowd control in the tree, requiring Madness to sit still and channel is debatable as an effective method of force regen.

 

This change would give each dps tree one unique way of force regen, Subversion and Sith Efficacy, while allowing both to take a shared talent, Effusion -- giving each tree two talents. I look at that as balanced.

 

2) Change the placement of two talents in the Corruption tree. Move Fadeout down to tier 1, while moving Force Suffusion up to tier 4. Dps trees really never take Force Suffusion, so that talent being in tier 1 really makes no sense. Fadeout being accessible to dps sorcs is universally accepted as a necessity for sorc survivability and would go a long way towards making dps sorcs become viewed as more viable in arenas, even without a perfect team composition.

 

 

Beside those two changes, I would also make Corrupted Speed in Corruption add a full second to Force Speed. On top of that I'd either change Reverse Corruptions to completely remove the health cost from Consumption instead of decreasing the force regen debuff by 3 seconds, or alternatively make Dark Resilience decrease the health cost by 5/10% instead of 2/4%.

 

Those changes will help DPS sorcs a lot, but the suggested changes to corruption are insufficient to pry me out of the bubblemez hybrid heal spec. Bubblemez is simply too important a counter to pull/stun/instagank to give up that easily. In full corruption either the other team is terribad or I would be dead before Force regen ever became an issue. Your corruption changes seem mostly geared to help DPS, not healers.

 

The suggested changes would help corruption sorcs more in warzones (where the need isn't as great) than in arenas (where they need the help the most).

Edited November 30, 2013 by AdrianDmitruk

[Monterone]

Those changes will help DPS sorcs a lot, but the suggested changes to corruption are insufficient to pry me out of the bubblemez hybrid heal spec. Bubblemez is simply too important a counter to pull/stun/instagank to give up that easily. In full corruption either the other team is terribad or I would be dead before Force regen ever became an issue. Your corruption changes seem mostly geared to help DPS, not healers.

 

The suggested changes would help corruption sorcs more in warzones (where the need isn't as great) than in arenas (where they need the help the most).

 

Very true, but I'm of the opinion that to fix Corruption, the only way would be to revert the nerfs done over a year and half ago. I still haven't seen the devs ever admit to making a mistake and reverting nerfs (aside from giving marauders a 5s Undying Rage back, through the set bonus -- which was not needed to revert anyway), so I didn't go into Corruption changes too much. Here it is then:

 

Mainly, change back Resurgence to allow for a 1.5s Dark Infusion. With the double proc bug removed, there was really no reason to at the same time make Dark Infusion the most interruptable ability in the game. Dark Infusion is flat out terrible currently; the only time it's really viable is every minute and a half when Recklessness is up, and even then you better have Polarity Shift up as well -- it's way too dependent on having both cooldowns up in order to make it effective. Without Recklessness, it's just too long of a cast since 3 out of 4 won't crit anyway, and the non-crit heal amount is too low for how difficult it is to get this ability off.

 

Also, one of the best set bonuses for a healer, especially in PvP was the 2-piece PvE bonus which lowered the CD of Innervate by 1.5s. This is now unavailable to PvP sorcs, unless you go the painful route of having much lower expertise. If any changes to Consumption were made as listed in my previous post, it would open up the possibility of re-thinking the 4-piece PvP Mystic set bonus. There are many set bonuses that could take place and be far more helpful: lower cd on Innervate, lower cd on Revivification, increased crit chance on Dark Infusion, lower cd on Overload since it acts as an AoE heal in this tree, lower cd on Electrocute since it acts as a damage debuff in this tree, lower force cost on Dark Heal etc...

 

Polarity Shift would also have to become available more often to make this tree less easy to shut down completely. I'd handle this by introducing a new proc to an already existing talent, Penetrating Darkness would probably be a good spot for it, and it would work similarly to the incredible talent Medicine Operatives get - Evasive Imperative. Each time a sorc is under attack it would lower the cd of Polarity shift by 1/2/3 seconds, and the effect can only occur every 1.5s. It would change nothing in games where the opposition is bad and ignoring the healer anyway, but for those games where a sorc healer is under constant pressure, it would be of tremendous value.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Monterone

[Cempa]

Been playing a bit today and I can see two intimidate changes that are much needed:

 

1) Crushing Darkness: Instant cast instead of current 2 sec and Wrath to increase the damage of Force Lightning by 100% on target who has empowered Crushing Darkness which is Crushing Darkness cast under Wrath. To show it adjust the graphics of Force Lightning to have say much thicker lightning bolts.

 

2) Force Speed duration increased from 2 sec to 8 sec

[AdrianDmitruk]

Been playing a bit today and I can see two intimidate changes that are much needed:

 

1) Crushing Darkness: Instant cast instead of current 2 sec and Wrath to increase the damage of Force Lightning by 100% on target who has empowered Crushing Darkness which is Crushing Darkness cast under Wrath. To show it adjust the graphics of Force Lightning to have say much thicker lightning bolts.

 

2) Force Speed duration increased from 2 sec to 8 sec

 

Oh no I would be hilariously OP with 8 second long fadeout sprint...it would be the ultimate in Make Them Pay!

 

On a more serious note...

 

Very true, but I'm of the opinion that to fix Corruption, the only way would be to revert the nerfs done over a year and half ago. I still haven't seen the devs ever admit to making a mistake and reverting nerfs (aside from giving marauders a 5s Undying Rage back, through the set bonus -- which was not needed to revert anyway), so I didn't go into Corruption changes too much. Here it is then:

 

Mainly, change back Resurgence to allow for a 1.5s Dark Infusion. With the double proc bug removed, there was really no reason to at the same time make Dark Infusion the most interruptable ability in the game. Dark Infusion is flat out terrible currently; the only time it's really viable is every minute and a half when Recklessness is up, and even then you better have Polarity Shift up as well -- it's way too dependent on having both cooldowns up in order to make it effective. Without Recklessness, it's just too long of a cast since 3 out of 4 won't crit anyway, and the non-crit heal amount is too low for how difficult it is to get this ability off.

 

Also, one of the best set bonuses for a healer, especially in PvP was the 2-piece PvE bonus which lowered the CD of Innervate by 1.5s. This is now unavailable to PvP sorcs, unless you go the painful route of having much lower expertise. If any changes to Consumption were made as listed in my previous post, it would open up the possibility of re-thinking the 4-piece PvP Mystic set bonus. There are many set bonuses that could take place and be far more helpful: lower cd on Innervate, lower cd on Revivification, increased crit chance on Dark Infusion, lower cd on Overload since it acts as an AoE heal in this tree, lower cd on Electrocute since it acts as a damage debuff in this tree, lower force cost on Dark Heal etc...

 

Polarity Shift would also have to become available more often to make this tree less easy to shut down completely. I'd handle this by introducing a new proc to an already existing talent, Penetrating Darkness would probably be a good spot for it, and it would work similarly to the incredible talent Medicine Operatives get - Evasive Imperative. Each time a sorc is under attack it would lower the cd of Polarity shift by 1/2/3 seconds, and the effect can only occur every 1.5s. It would change nothing in games where the opposition is bad and ignoring the healer anyway, but for those games where a sorc healer is under constant pressure, it would be of tremendous value.

 

We've been asking for them to revert 1.2 ever since 1.2 released lol. I think by now they're set on having us have the most ridiculously long, hard cast heal in the game that we can never, ever get off unless the other team is simply bad. LOL we're not getting 1.5 sec Dark Infusion back, as much as I would love it. We should thank the development gods if they change it to 2.0 seconds to be in line with the other healers' big heals LOL.

 

That said...

 

Yes our set bonuses for PVP are in drastic need of improvement. I'm still wary of tying a consumption fix to anything other than the PVP set bonus however, because a PVP fix for consumption would lead to PVE becoming too ezmode with the resulting nerfbat...again. We used to get consumption free of health cost in heal tree but Bioware decided that was too hilariously OP in long raid fights (which it was) and broke it for PVP trying to fix it for PVE. Then they reduced the cost of kolto probe spam to make scouperative energy management as ezmode as sorc energy management used to be. Go figure.

 

So I'm a big proponent of tying consumption fixes to PVP set bonuses, because the problem is primarily a PVP problem. I don't want to see a bona fide fix for PVP sorcs reverted because it makes PVE too easy.

 

Additionally if we're going to start reverting nerfs, give me my 30m stun back and my 360 radial back. If an arena team tries to pull/stun/instagank me, if I'm on my toes I can stun one of them right when the pull starts and maybe (if the ping gods favor me that day) overload when I land, buying the escape time that bubblemez buys me currently by allowing me to live long enough to eat the stun. Yay. That would at least be worth testing...

 

Your idea for polarity shift is an interesting one. It certainly gives corruption some ability to Make Them Pay for mindless zerging, the more you mindless yolo zerg, the harder the sorc becomes to interrupt (not to mention casting faster in general). That goes straight to that really good zerg vs. hard switch post someone made earlier, only your suggestion trades the stacking DR originally suggested for deterring the zerg for getting harder to interrupt as we get zerged. I think I like where this is going and it just might be enough to get me playing full corruption again.

[AdmiralParmesan]

I think part of the issue is other classes and builds and how easy they are to play -specifically how easy the talents/abilities make it to stay on target.

 

Thing is if you make it easier for Sorcerer to create gap in PvP the really good players are going to destroy everything in sight, but if you don't make it easier for Sorcerer to create space and keep distance, most Sorcerers will have a horrid gaming experience.

 

How melee is designed in this game is far too dumbed down..just my opinion :/

 

Have to agree on this, many melee specs are incredibly dumbed down

[JackNader]

The #1 problem with sorcerer is the way their defensive cooldowns operate.

 

First of all they have a bubble which requires a GCD to cast. It also has a very high force cost which prevents it being used continuously in your rotation. This also inhibits the bubble from being used as an additional utility to prevent damage to your teammates.. The bubble absorbs 1 - 2 abilities tops and sometimes not even that. The problem with this, especially for a DPS sorc is that you have to stop damaging players to cast it and the damage that it absorbs doesn't offset the lost GCD.

 

I don't see any reason whatsoever why bubble has a GCD requirement at all, nor do I see why it has to have a force cost considering it's the sorcerers only proper defensive cooldown.

 

The next issue, especially for a DPS sorc is that the ability to chuck offheals / heal themselves is factored in to the classes survivability. Now in a 1v1 situation, this is fine. Decent sorcs can always line of sight and chuck down a quick dark heal on themselves. In a group fight, particularly an arena, "healing to full" is not an option. It's not even possible. Dark Infusion takes way too long to cast and dark heal doesn't heal nearly enough to justify the cast. Personally I would like to see Dark infusions cast time brought down to 2.5 seconds. I would also like to see dark heals base increased slightly. I don't care if the force cost is increased further either.

 

Unatural preservation is another problem. It's a great heal in heal spec, pretty ****** for the DPS specs. Worst of all is that it takes a GCD to cast. I don't see any reason why this ability should require a GCD.

 

Force speed should clear all movement impairing effects and make the sorcerer immune to them for the duration for ALL specs.

 

Lightning tree - I don't have any real issues with the lightning tree. It has great burst, decent sustained damage and so many crowd controls that you can kite around a lot. Given the above changes, I think the tree would be perfect.

 

Madness tree - Only issue I have with this tree is its horrendous force management. The poster above suggested taking lightning effusion and putting it down to the first tier of lightning. I'm ok with this. Kinda would like an AOE affliction too cause TAB dotting is such a chore.

 

Corruption tree - Innervate should be immune to interrupt, beyond that the tree is fine.

Edited December 1, 2013 by JackNader

[Cempa]

Force Speed PvP

 

Needs a change:

 

* Add a suppress all movement impairing to it

 

OR

 

* Reduce the speed from 150% to 80% but increase the duration from 2sec to 8sec and reduce the CD

 

--------------------------

 

Resource is a problem, a huge problem, considering Sorcerer is clearly a utility class when in DPS spec. You will need to heal, CC, Purge, Pull and always peel. Our resource pool can not sustain that role in Madness and some PvP players have gone hybrid for Wrath+Lightning Effusion.

 

If Madness is intended to be a stand alone DPS build then make it so, add more self healing, a defensive CD, another CC such as AE Force Fear and a single target Force Fear. Add more links between Force Lightning and DoTs.

[vonBoomslang]

2) Change the placement of two talents in the Corruption tree. Move Fadeout down to tier 1, while moving Force Suffusion up to tier 4. Dps trees really never take Force Suffusion, so that talent being in tier 1 really makes no sense. Fadeout being accessible to dps sorcs is universally accepted as a necessity for sorc survivability and would go a long way towards making dps sorcs become viewed as more viable in arenas, even without a perfect team composition.

 

Fadeout shouldn't go lower than tier 2, since you only get Force Speed at lvl 16.

[dscount]

Sure would be NICE to see what this activity is going to actually DO for our class.

 

With 2.5 about to rollout w/o any real updates (For us) it's just as Styrak would say... "Smoke and mirrors" about the Community Managers postings.

 

Heck 4v4 has been broken this whole time (Like most suggested it would be for Sorc Healers). Check the Leaderboards - what 5 Sage/Sorc on the top 50 I think? Those are some of the best players too I'm sure.

 

Like many on this post we have great ideas, but feel this class is never going to be OP as Snipers / Operatives.

[psybernetic]

Sure would be NICE to see what this activity is going to actually DO for our class.

 

With 2.5 about to rollout w/o any real updates (For us) it's just as Styrak would say... "Smoke and mirrors" about the Community Managers postings.

 

Heck 4v4 has been broken this whole time (Like most suggested it would be for Sorc Healers). Check the Leaderboards - what 5 Sage/Sorc on the top 50 I think? Those are some of the best players too I'm sure.

 

Like many on this post we have great ideas, but feel this class is never going to be OP as Snipers / Operatives.

 

Doubtful that anything will come of this thread anytime soon. Basically every sorc/sage in the top 50 is Madness and you can't count Mudclot because he quit and uninstalled.

[Devinia-Hex]

You have to look at the Leaderboards for what they are and they don't mean a thing and can be manipulated why you say? When you queue ranked 4 mans you are in a queue against only your own server and who ever is in the queue at the time. With this method you could farm lesser teams or 4 friends over and over to inflate your rating. Hence there is a need for Cross Server warzones and ranked PVP to get past this and fix the queue so that it is based on rankings and not who is in the queue and if you beat a lesser ranked team that is way out of your ranking you should get 0 points towards your rank.

 

If this was the case you would be lucky to see 1 sorc in the top 50. All this smoke and mirrors on the forums is just that and Madness although the best of the three specs is still not on par with other dps classes not even Trooper/BH DPS look at Lighting Strike and compare it to Grav/tracer only about 3-4 k difference in damage for a spamable ability. Our 36 point talents are pathetic I mean a 2 second root dot that does 3261 over 18 seconds?

The Damage should either be doubled or the timer cut in half. Also Sin's get a talent Bloodlettering which improves Damage by dots and death field to targets below 30% health by 15% Madness sorcs need this as well since they don't have an execute ability.

 

If were supposed to be a heal through dots class and use the consume talent to get back force to be healed through those dots we need more of a % than 2 healing or more passive crit on our dots to make up for the lack of any real defensive cooldowns

 

The operative hots heal our dots fairly well with them breathing hard and they can't dispell them so what will dispell immunity do for us? Nothing it will make sage/sorc healers that more gimped as they can't dispell sorc sage dots from Madness/Balance sin/shadow/sorc/sages. Isn't that Awesome?

[AdmiralParmesan]

Fadeout shouldn't go lower than tier 2, since you only get Force Speed at lvl 16.

 

Basing endgame class balance on the leveling experience is probably the most foolish idea I have ever heard.

 

Also many classes talents that affect abilities they have yet to receive at that point in their leveling. Your point is about as invalid as it gets.

------------------------------------------

 

Also while I'm ranting I hate the fact that we are treated as a utility class when speced as DPS. All of the dps specs have some form of utility they bring and in the cases of things like taunts, it doesn't cost any resource or even a global. Meanwhile all of our utilities take globals or casting. Given the fact that in pve we are already behind in dps compared to other options using all these globals (even just maintaining static barrier or using unnatural preservation) puts us further behind.

 

In pvp having optimal damage isn't as big of a problem however full madness doesn't even have the force management to use these "off healing" utilities that it is balanced around. Even if it did sorcs are usually the first to be targeted so being able to off heal isn't very useful when you are the one being focused.

Edited December 2, 2013 by AdmiralParmesan

[vonBoomslang]

Basing endgame class balance on the leveling experience is probably the most foolish idea I have ever heard.

 

Also many classes talents that affect abilities they have yet to receive. Your point is about as invalid as it gets.

 

Yes, but they never affect solely abilities you have yet to receive. At least, not since a few tier sevens were fixed. Basing the leveling experience solely on endgame class balance is just as foolish.

 

FURTHER.

 

I am heavily underqualified to speculate, BUT:

 

Would it help if the healer tree had a talent that, when you suffer ability pushback (% chance) or are interrupted (guaranteed), to make your next Dark Heal instant cast? With a lockout (10s?) and a hefty duration (30s?)?

Edited December 2, 2013 by vonBoomslang

[AdrianDmitruk]

FURTHER.

 

I am heavily underqualified to speculate, BUT:

 

Would it help if the healer tree had a talent that, when you suffer ability pushback (% chance) or are interrupted (guaranteed), to make your next Dark Heal instant cast? With a lockout (10s?) and a hefty duration (30s?)?

 

Can we get such a proc on Dark Infusion instead?

 

Seriously, at release the cast time was balanced around corruption getting a proc that reduced its cast time by 1 second. This is why its base cast time was half a second longer than other heal classes' main heals--to balance the proc.

 

The proc got removed because Bioware was too lazy to properly bugfix a double-dipping bug where activating DI twice in quick enough succession would carry over the proc to the second cast. Since then DI has been, bar none, the longest hard-casted heal in the game, and its output is very similar to the other classes' main heals that are a half a second shorter.

 

Bioware, either adjust the heal's output to justify its uber-long cast time, bring the cast time back in line, or give us some form of proc to quick-cast it back so we can actually use it without taking a vacation first.

[Assaultrooper]

Guys talking about lightning in pvp, I see 3 problems that have prevented it from becoming a true contender to madness, correct me if you feel I am wrong.

 

- Casting, madness has to channel at most meaning whatever happens interrupted or not madness sorcerer dish out damage, this is supposed to be an intended drawback to be set off by the burst of lightning that well I feel is not there anymore...

 

-Survivability, Lightning sorcs have a single survival protection and thats static barrier and thats it.

 

-Random CC. While madness gives the sorc full control of its cc's Lightning relies on the random barrier mez for the kiting, but I suppose this is per design...

 

OK that I can immediately think of Solutions!

 

-Cast while moving, would it be OP to make lightning strike cast-while-moving for lightning sorcs? I think it'd solve the uptime problem and give us a bit more of survivability, and it destabilize the PvE minimally

 

-Make recklessness not be consumed by thundering blast -.- pls....

Edited December 5, 2013 by Assaultrooper

[a_Sureshot]

I would say give Forked Lightning a little bit of a buff, in my opinion we need at least a 45 - 50% chance for Lightning Strike and Chain Lightning to create the second arc of lightning.

[AdmiralParmesan]

remember when bioware responded to this thread?

 

good times, good times