Commando Changes Brainstorming

[Justbee]

- Fix unload munching...

- make possible to activate an new skill in row without clipping the last ul tick

- better ressource management

- rise dps to 95% of marauder(guardian and sniper

- what about a raid buff like the def shield (sniper) or off buff (marauder)

- the setback in casting while getting hit is nnoying, why gunslinger dont suffer from this ?

[Taankjr]

nvm Edited November 6, 2013 by Taankjr

[cs_zoltan]

I just can't understand why everyone wants Trauma Probe to be castable on 4 targets.

Let me tell you something about Trauma Probe: it costs 16 ammo and (at my gear lvl which is almost full 78) it heals for 13988-14768 (if add kolto residue to this: 14407-15211) without crit. with crit (i have 34,55% crit and 74,56 surge) it's 18377-19401. This make Trauma Probe the most effective heal in the game by far.

If BW would alow us to use it on up to 4 people they would nerf it seriously. Right now we are good at 1 thing: Tank healing, and Trauma Probe is the best tank healing tool. So why would you want to turn the best tank heal into an ok raid heal? I know I wouldn't. We are not raid healers, we are tank healers. If you want to raid heal on your Mando, you are doing it wrong.

 

PS: with 16 ammo cost you wouldn't be able to recast it on 4 target midfight anyway...

[DomBah]

This make Trauma Probe the most effective heal in the game by far.

Right now we are good at 1 thing: Tank healing, and Trauma Probe is the best tank healing tool. We are not raid healers, we are tank healers. If you want to raid heal on your Mando, you are doing it wrong.

 

PS: with 16 ammo cost you wouldn't be able to recast it on 4 target midfight anyway...

 

Hi, first to say: traumprobe is one really good healing tool. But you have only one of it. I think 4 would really to much, but a second (stackable) is exacly right.

Second to say: It exists no "tank healer" in this game. All healers are designed to be able to heal the whole spectrum (DD's and tanks the same way)

Third and last: And even if it would so, then the scoundrel is much better in single target healing (and can healing multiple targets without a problem) and is the best pvp healer too. With the sage as the best group healer, where is the place for a commando healer? Not capable for pvp, and in pve only second choice (and that since 18 month)

And i assume you never played pvp, else you would know, why a commando should have multiple traumaprobes (or other hots)

Edited November 6, 2013 by DomBah

[cashogy_reborn]

I just can't understand why everyone wants Trauma Probe to be castable on 4 targets.

Let me tell you something about Trauma Probe: it costs 16 ammo and (at my gear lvl which is almost full 78) it heals for 13988-14768 (if add kolto residue to this: 14407-15211) without crit. with crit (i have 34,55% crit and 74,56 surge) it's 18377-19401. This make Trauma Probe the most effective heal in the game by far.

If BW would alow us to use it on up to 4 people they would nerf it seriously. Right now we are good at 1 thing: Tank healing, and Trauma Probe is the best tank healing tool. So why would you want to turn the best tank heal into an ok raid heal? I know I wouldn't. We are not raid healers, we are tank healers. If you want to raid heal on your Mando, you are doing it wrong.

 

PS: with 16 ammo cost you wouldn't be able to recast it on 4 target midfight anyway...

 

And how much do Operative HoTs heal for? Which are low cost, spam-able on all group members, and proactive rather than reactive healing. Unless Operative heals gets nerfed, Commando and Sage healing should be brought up to the same level of effectiveness.

 

And Im not a huge PvE guy, but I dont think that Trauma Probe would be that great of a tank heal. Its *reactive*, which means the tank only gets healed from it when taking damage. Whereas an Operative HoT will heal through (and possible beyond) the incoming damage. If anything, Trauma Probe could most readily be described as a kind of additional damage mitigation. I could be wrong b/c I dont really know a lot about the PvE side of things, but thats just my perspective.

[cs_zoltan]

Hi, first to say: traumprobe is one really good healing tool. But you have only one of it. I think 4 would really to much, but a second (stackable) is exacly right.

Second to say: It exists no "tank healer" in this game. All healers are designed to be able to heal the whole spectrum (DD's and tanks the same way)

Third and last: And even if it would so, then the scoundrel is much better in single target healing (and can healing multiple targets without a problem) and is the best pvp healer too. With the sage as the best group healer, where is the place for a commando healer? Not capable for pvp, and in pve only second choice (and that since 18 month)

And i assume you never played pvp, else you would know, why a commando should have multiple traumaprobes (or other hots)

 

1. Scoundrel is not the best single target healers, Mando is. It's a fact.

2. There is such thing as tank healer, like you said some class is better at single target healing and other in group healing. That makes the single target healer the tank healer and the group healer the raid healer...

3. Sometimes I do heal in PVP, and I know Mandos aren't looking good there. But you don't have to ruin something for PVE to make it work in PVP

[Malckiah]

I am not even going to start on the rest of you post besides this.....

 

 

Are you high? why not let them use lightsabers while your at it.

 

Not saying that agree with what he said, but do you ever have anything nice to say? Your contributions are always trash talk.

[cs_zoltan]

And how much do Operative HoTs heal for? Which are low cost, spam-able on all group members, and proactive rather than reactive healing. Unless Operative heals gets nerfed, Commando and Sage healing should be brought up to the same level of effectiveness.

 

Not that much, even with 2 stacks (which takes 1 more GCD to setup than TP). But i do agree that scoundrel energy management needs a nerf. That doesn't mean though that TP is underpowered.

 

And Im not a huge PvE guy, but I dont think that Trauma Probe would be that great of a tank heal. Its *reactive*, which means the tank only gets healed from it when taking damage. Whereas an Operative HoT will heal through (and possible beyond) the incoming damage. If anything, Trauma Probe could most readily be described as a kind of additional damage mitigation. I could be wrong b/c I dont really know a lot about the PvE side of things, but thats just my perspective.

 

That makes no difference unless the tank gets 1 shotted. Actually i think it makes TP better since it's effectivenes is 98-100% while scoundrel HoTs are sitting around 60-70%.

[wainot-keel]

You are kidding yourself mightily if you think all of those taken together would make us Smash OP x2.

 

I wouldn't mind a mechanic to make Kolto bomb and ticks from Kolto pads automatic crits for the duration

[schooch]

Not saying that agree with what he said, but do you ever have anything nice to say? Your contributions are always trash talk.

 

Have you read this thread? nope, there is nothing nice to say about anything in this thread.

[kenmc]

Have you read this thread? nope, there is nothing nice to say about anything in this thread.

and trash talking is supposed to make things better? If you don't like it, ignore it and move on. If you want this to become something more productive, than it has been, then provide something useful. Providing reasons for why you don't like something, without calling someone stupid isn't that hard.

 

I'll take the using other weapons as an example. I don't agree with making it so that the commando can use other weapons. Every other class has specific weapons that there class is designed around (eg. knights with their single bladed lightsabers/vibroswords, vanguards with their blaster rifles, shadows with their double bladed lightsabers, etc). Every class has their go to weapon or in the case of duel wield, weapons, that they either have skills attached to, or will have dps consequences if they dont use. I don't see why commandos should be any different in this respect.

[schooch]

and trash talking is supposed to make things better? If you don't like it, ignore it and move on.

 

for the most part I have....I only respond to certain things. If I where responding to every bad idea in this thread I would wear out my keyboard.

[DomBah]

1. Scoundrel is not the best single target healers, Mando is. It's a fact.

2. There is such thing as tank healer, like you said some class is better at single target healing and other in group healing. That makes the single target healer the tank healer and the group healer the raid healer...

3. Sometimes I do heal in PVP, and I know Mandos aren't looking good there. But you don't have to ruin something for PVE to make it work in PVP

..........

But i do agree that scoundrel energy management needs a nerf. That doesn't mean though that TP is underpowered.

1) Its a legend build up in the first 4 month of the game. Since patch 1.2, bioware reduced the burst healing ability much, because so many pvp players complains, that they dont can, as a single dd, take down a commando heal (what was true, but only if nobody interrupt the comm )

Compared with the scoundrel (i play too), the healings from the comm need to long time and burst phases take the energy rate down. Sadly i dont know the english terms, otherwise i could tell you the rota from the scoundrel, and thats how a burst healer have to be.

2) Read the statments from the devs. of course they are different in healing, but there is not a dedicated tank healer or why you think you have the kolto bomb.

3) your third point, i dont get it, ruin what? I want, like most posters here, that the commando healer is equal to the others.

 

Its strange that a commando healer want to nerf the other healers, instead of buff his own. Is this you Austin " pvp balance tested with puppets" Peckenpaugh ?

 

I think pvp is the royal discipline in matter of balancing. If it works there, it will work in pve too. So my point of view is pvp. But even in pve is it clear, sometimes you need fast healings otherwise the tank is dead. The sage and scoundrel are simply faster.

 

Simple calculation for single target healing

 

Scoundrel (69er)

55k uncrittet single target healing in 20sec without (!) harming your energy reg. that means you go on and on with that for the scoundrel.

If the heal target drops to 30% hp 2.5k healings are free per gcd. If he drops out of opti energy rate, diagnostic scan (output skilled slighlty better then hammershot, but not useable on the move) brings back energy.

Because of hots and instants he can now move and heal another target. Even if he is under pressure and in stun, the hots doing his job.

 

Commando (69er)

already on traumaprobe = 10k,

4,5sec 3x kolto bomb = 10k,

1,5sec 1x bacta = 3.5k,

rest under supercharged cells, 4x small and big med probe = 4x 9k = 36k = 59k.

First sounds good, but you energy reg. is harmed and supercharged cells is gone. If the healing have to go on, your energy rate goes to 3 or 2 p/s and you are not able to effectively healing anymore.

The main healing are casts, the comm can't do anything else, is easy to interrupt and the healing output comes only after the cast time, so if you are interrupt while casting, bad luck my young, go to start.

 

And thats the point, not the scoundrel is op, the commando is much underpowered. Of course there are many ways to fix that (and easy too, if bioware only want), but the solution is surely not to bring the scoundrel to the commando level.

 

so its late in the night, iam very tired, good night

[cashogy_reborn]

Have you read this thread? nope, there is nothing nice to say about anything in this thread.

 

Ive actually read a handful of good ideas in this thread. So its not all bad.... just the majority of it

[schooch]

Ive actually read a handful of good ideas in this thread. So its not all bad.... just the majority of it

 

handful=5 from 19 pages

[cs_zoltan]

1) Its a legend build up in the first 4 month of the game. Since patch 1.2, bioware reduced the burst healing ability much, because so many pvp players complains, that they dont can, as a single dd, take down a commando heal (what was true, but only if nobody interrupt the comm )

Compared with the scoundrel (i play too), the healings from the comm need to long time and burst phases take the energy rate down. Sadly i dont know the english terms, otherwise i could tell you the rota from the scoundrel, and thats how a burst healer have to be.

Right the contrary, Mando's have a bad reputation since 1.2, but that prejudice is totally unwarranted. In PVE that is

 

2) Read the statments from the devs. of course they are different in healing, but there is not a dedicated tank healer or why you think you have the kolto bomb.

There is tank healer and raid healer. Just like there are single target dps, aoe dps, sustained dps, burst dps. If you are good at single target healing and bad or moderate at healing more people you are a tank healer. But please let's stop arguing about choice of words.

 

3) your third point, i dont get it, ruin what? I want, like most posters here, that the commando healer is equal to the others.

 

Its strange that a commando healer want to nerf the other healers, instead of buff his own. Is this you Austin " pvp balance tested with puppets" Peckenpaugh ?

Ruin Trauma Probe, since like I said it's already powerfull so if you can use it on more than 1 target it's gona be op and will get nerfed which will make it a worse tank heal as it is now.

 

I didn't said that i don't want buff for mando healers, I think we deserve an ammo management buff and scoundrels a nerf and then everything would be balanced. In PVE again. Not gona comment on PVP healing since i rarely do that.

 

I think pvp is the royal discipline in matter of balancing. If it works there, it will work in pve too. So my point of view is pvp. But even in pve is it clear, sometimes you need fast healings otherwise the tank is dead. The sage and scoundrel are simply faster.

Let me give you a list:

-shadow infiltraton: good in PVP, bad in PVE

-focus sentinel: op in PVP, balanced in PVE

-assault mando: bad in PVP, very good in PVE

-mando healer: bad in PVP, good in PVE

- DF scoundrel: bad in PVP, good in PVE

 

PVE and PVP is different, you can't balance PVE around PVP and the other way around, it just doesn't work.

Also what do you want faster then AMP->MP->BI. Even without first responder the 2 cast is 3,3 second, and heals for 12700-14400 without crit, gives 10% armor and a 1600 HoT. What more do you want?

 

Simple calculation for single target healing

 

Scoundrel (69er)

55k uncrittet single target healing in 20sec without (!) harming your energy reg. that means you go on and on with that for the scoundrel.

If the heal target drops to 30% hp 2.5k healings are free per gcd. If he drops out of opti energy rate, diagnostic scan (output skilled slighlty better then hammershot, but not useable on the move) brings back energy.

Because of hots and instants he can now move and heal another target. Even if he is under pressure and in stun, the hots doing his job.

 

Commando (69er)

already on traumaprobe = 10k,

4,5sec 3x kolto bomb = 10k,

1,5sec 1x bacta = 3.5k,

rest under supercharged cells, 4x small and big med probe = 4x 9k = 36k = 59k.

First sounds good, but you energy reg. is harmed and supercharged cells is gone. If the healing have to go on, your energy rate goes to 3 or 2 p/s and you are not able to effectively healing anymore.

The main healing are casts, the comm can't do anything else, is easy to interrupt and the healing output comes only after the cast time, so if you are interrupt while casting, bad luck my young, go to start.

You are just throwing around numbers here, and your mando "rotation" is flawed as hell. I took the numbers for all my math form the in-game tooltip of my merc healer, when you do that we can talk again about this.

 

And thats the point, not the scoundrel is op, the commando is much underpowered. Of course there are many ways to fix that (and easy too, if bioware only want), but the solution is surely not to bring the scoundrel to the commando level.

 

so its late in the night, iam very tired, good night

I guess you are talking about PVP? if yes then scoundrel is op and mando is up. Scoundrel needs energy management nerf, and i'm not gona say what mando needs since i rarely PVP heal on my merc...

[SpaniardInfinity]

Ruin Trauma Probe, since like I said it's already powerfull so if you can use it on more than 1 target it's gona be op and will get nerfed which will make it a worse tank heal as it is now.

 

Well the very first thing that has to be done to Trauma Probe is something has to be done about Frontline Medic. If it is going to be a requirement for taking Probe Medic, its effect has got to be better than what it is now. As it stands, it is marginally helpful in some situations in PVP and utterly worthless in PVE. Increasing the number of Trauma Probes with that talent seems to have been a consensus.

 

I think if Trauma Probe could be put on say 3 people (it should not be more than 4 people), Trauma Probe would warrant a cost increase to around 20 ammo/heat. So this change doesn't punish the ammo any more than it already does, Supercharge should also have an additional Supercharged effect that lowers the cost of Trauma Probe by 50% (to 10 ammo/heat). Since Trauma Probe must be refreshed around every 26 seconds and Supercharge is available on roughly the same interval, it seems reasonable to have this ammo/heat discount during Supercharge.

Edited November 7, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Nelood]

Possible suggestions that would be easy to implement -

 

1.) If the commando is attacked (melee/ranged/AOE) while "Hold the Line" is active; all players perform 200% damage on the attacker for eight seconds. This will deter attacks similar to a stealther or sage bubble, but in a unique and dynamic way.

 

2.) Increase the charges on tech override to four every 30 seconds

[kenmc]

2.) Increase the charges on tech override to four every 30 seconds

 

4 charges might be a little excessive. maybe making it so that it's 2 charges without having to spec into it. that way all specs can benefit from the extra charge and not just gunnery. Having 4 charges would also hurt energy management. 4 instants, and since there was no time other that gcd between them you would be pretty low on ammo. It might be usefull at times in pvp but pve would be useless. Also this would probably give more burst to the commando than they would want. Heck this one change would probably give the highest burst currently in the game if you used it right.

[cashogy_reborn]

4 charges might be a little excessive. maybe making it so that it's 2 charges without having to spec into it. that way all specs can benefit from the extra charge and not just gunnery. Having 4 charges would also hurt energy management. 4 instants, and since there was no time other that gcd between them you would be pretty low on ammo. It might be usefull at times in pvp but pve would be useless. Also this would probably give more burst to the commando than they would want. Heck this one change would probably give the highest burst currently in the game if you used it right.

 

Wrong, unless you use all 4 charges on Medical Probe. MP and Concussion Round are the only abilities we have with >1.5s cast times.

 

Also, not sure how it magically increases the burst we can do? Grav Round is a 1.5s cast..... same as GCD. It being a momentary instant cast is no change in time elapsed.

 

And useless in PvE? B/c there are never boss phases where you need to be mobile for extended periods of time?

 

Having said that 4 charges on a 30s cooldown is too much IMO. I would like the base cooldown reduced to 60s, and IMO that should be fine.

Edited November 9, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[DomBah]

Hi zoltan,

 

just a few things, otherwise it gets to off-topic, so it will be shortly.

 

First to say.

We are here to bring ideas to to make comm healer perform better not to bring ideas to nerf other classes.

 

Second to say.

You want ammo managment nerfed from scoundrel und buffed the comm healer. Sry to say, just tell us here how this will gonna work out (its just vice-versa)

That you would destroy the scoundrel with that and he would not be able anymore to effective heal as a pvp healer, iam not sure you aware.

 

Third to say.

Obviously i dont wrote a heal rota (was that from you sarcasm i dont understand?), just tried to explain why the scoundrel is the better single target healer, of course this has to do with his ammo managment and emergency instant heals/hots, by pointing out the maximum that can both healers dish out, at the same time with best energy use of course.

And it was late in the night, i make a mistake about the heal output from the commando, its less, more about 55-56k, so nearly exactly the scoundrel output.

I prefer kolto bomb over the small med probe, because kolto bomb is instant and can not be interrupted (its a pvp point of view)

Iam curious what you would change to max. the output without destroying the energy regeneration of the comm healer, just wrote (iam not checking every day, but i will see it, promise).

 

Last to say.

I say it again, what you are doing is just strange, to call for a scoundrel healer nerf instead to bring constructive and detailed ideas to bring commando healer up.

And why you call the scoundrel op?. Is it the output, then the sage is better, but til know you dont call for a sage nerf. You call scoundrel op and say commando healer is the best single target healer, but the scoundrel is the same kind of healer (single target respectively four-person healer, only hardcore players spam the doubled stack hot on 8 persons). Explain please.

 

Your vague idea to buff the ammo managment (to what level?), which i would agree that solves some of the commando probs and would him bring to very good burst healer again, on the other hand its always easy to say for every class - just pimp the energy regeneration, but solve not the main pvp issues, so your point of view seems only pve.

 

So iam waiting eagerly to your suggestions about to improve the commando healer and how you would heal to dish out (heals^^) most in 20 sec.

Edited November 9, 2013 by DomBah

[Osxoba]

Commandos need more defense.

Bottom line.

Reactive shield should stun those who attack for 3 seconds. Remember, it only lasts for 12 seconds.

[cashogy_reborn]

Commandos need more defense.

Bottom line.

Reactive shield should stun those who attack for 3 seconds. Remember, it only lasts for 12 seconds.

 

I hope this is not a serious post.

[TheSupaCoopa]

I am not even going to start on the rest of you post besides this.....

 

 

Are you high? why not let them use lightsabers while your at it.

One of the Vizlas had the Dark saber. And do you ever have anything good to say?

[schooch]

One of the Vizlas had the Dark saber. And do you ever have anything good to say?

 

You are one of the prime examples of why I don't have anything nice to say.