Lord_Garrex Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) It seems that lately, in every HM Ops that I run with my guild, I'm pulling major aggro off the tanks and having to burn a force camo at an inopportune time that occasionally leads to death. I'm literally having to pop all of my cool downs plus a medpack just to stay alive and sometimes even that isn't enough. I don't know if I'm just not getting enough heals or if I'm sentinel tanking and taking damage that I shouldn't be (maybe both?) but it's getting frustrating being the first one or the only one dead on a boss fight. Putting a guard on me helps a ton but our raid leader typically only wants guards on the healers. Any suggestions? Edited October 28, 2013 by Lord_Garrex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidensareno Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Your raid leader needs to understand that your Sent. DPS is strong enough to pull of tanks and give you the Guard over the weaker of two (assuming 8 man group) healers. There isn't anything you can do other than gimp your DPS to 'not' pull aggro if you're following your rotation properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Garrex Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 That's what they told me to do as well but gimping my rotation just to keep aggro off me doesn't sit right. Could the tanks be doing something differently/better to hold aggro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidensareno Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 You could possibly hold off on attacking the Boss or trash until the Tank has gone through their initial pull and let them grab enough aggro, otherwise Guarding you to reduce the threat you pull is the only method a sane Raid Group has in their inventory. Gimping their DPS by telling you to hold off on your rotation is asinine when you get to HMs where you need to DPS something down fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 As a melee dps, you should be one of the default guard targets. You only have to reach 110% of the tank's threat to pull off the tank, as opposed to the ranged dps and healers who need to hit 130%. And honestly, if your tanks can't hold aggro off of the healers, something is very, very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woebearer Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Raiding only as a healer the only ocasions I apreciate to be guarded ist at huge trashpacks or when pulling multiple groups at once, the rest of the raid it has to be on either the meeles or on the of AE-Spamming ranged Dps. So basically you can tell you raidlead that he´s a noob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslan Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Do your opener then pop Force Camo ASAP, then cycle it religiously every time it is up, if you are running with at least 1 guardian tank and still pulling agro have him Guardian Leap to you, it's really easy and won't interrupt his rotation that much, like 1 global. The 2 highest dps should be guarded, and usually melee over ranged if you are running 2 and 2. You could hold back a bit at the beginning, which is adviced, like the first 5 secs, but that's it, never gimp your rotation over the course of the fight because the tanks can't hold agro, at that point it is a tanking issue and not a dps one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) It seems that lately, in every HM Ops that I run with my guild, I'm pulling major aggro off the tanks and having to burn a force camo at an inopportune time that occasionally leads to death. I'm literally having to pop all of my cool downs plus a medpack just to stay alive and sometimes even that isn't enough. I don't know if I'm just not getting enough heals or if I'm sentinel tanking and taking damage that I shouldn't be (maybe both?) but it's getting frustrating being the first one or the only one dead on a boss fight. Putting a guard on me helps a ton but our raid leader typically only wants guards on the healers. Any suggestions? Not sure if this applies on bosses too but if it does, then your raid leader needs to sit down and read OPS 101.In addition, gear up your tanks better. Edited October 28, 2013 by Leafy_Bug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakkology Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Hey. If you ask me guards should always be on mdps. I'm a sage, i pull aggro like a vacuum cleaner pulling dust on my TK spec. Still i know that if i lose aggro, i can use tricks from far and give tanks time to take it back off me. If a rdps insists that he needs to have a guard despite the fact that you are dying at the start of the fight, he's just an arrogant kitten that needs to be taught a lesson. I also have the same issue as well with certain tanks, your tank might want to research some rotations that would get him high initial aggro. No dps has to suffer from "Go easy at start , alright?" or "Slow down dps ur taking too much aggro" or -if you use your aggro drop and do your job- "stop dying at the start of the fight with your aggro". This just doesn't happen with good tanks. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Hey. If you ask me guards should always be on mdps. I'm a sage, i pull aggro like a vacuum cleaner pulling dust on my TK spec. Still i know that if i lose aggro, i can use tricks from far and give tanks time to take it back off me. If a rdps insists that he needs to have a guard despite the fact that you are dying at the start of the fight, he's just an arrogant kitten that needs to be taught a lesson. I also have the same issue as well with certain tanks, your tank might want to research some rotations that would get him high initial aggro. No dps has to suffer from "Go easy at start , alright?" or "Slow down dps ur taking too much aggro" or -if you use your aggro drop and do your job- "stop dying at the start of the fight with your aggro". This just doesn't happen with good tanks. All the best. ^ All of this. I'm going to paraphrase KBN here, from his Combat Sentinel guide, and say this: There is absolutely no reason a tank should not be able to hold aggro through any part of the fight, if said tank loses aggro, they're doing something wrong. If they lose it for any reason, they have taunts, and they really, especially if you're running HM ops, should know how to open up with their huge threat generators. For example: Shadow: Force Pull -> Slow Time -> Project -> Double Strike -> Potency + Shock -> Telekinetic Throw Guardian: (Saber Throw ->) Force Leap -> Force Sweep -> Master Strike -> Pommel Strike -> Guardian Slash Vanguard: Harpoon -> Storm -> Stock Strike -> High Impact Bolt -> Sticky Grenade -> Explosive Surge -> Full Auto (not sure where heat blast falls in here) My point here is that each tank spec has a high threat opening rotation they can use to prevent losing aggro at the start of the fight, and from there, if threat is really a problem, the tanks can taunt multiply their threat to insane levels, and should, since most of the current ops bosses have tank swaps at regular intervals. P.S. Feel free to correct me on the openers if you know better rotations. My Shadow rotation works for my raid group, but I'm always looking to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprgmr Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) There shouldn't be any reason for you to pull aggro if you are using your dump right. I'm Watchman and I usually go thru my opener (which includes leap, master strike, cauterize, overload saber and twin saber throw) then dump, then proceed to dump on cooldown. I only pull about 5 seconds after my opener if I don't dump. I'd say if you are pulling even when using your opener right after your opener, then give the tanks 2-3 globals on the boss (not counting gap closer) and then go. If that delay means your group won't down the boss then there are bigger issues with your groups DPS than just you. Edited October 29, 2013 by Sprgmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Any suggestions? Tell your raid leader to get his **** straight, for starters. There is absolutely no reason why you should gimp your dps because tanks lose aggro. Especially if they're guarding rdps or healers. When tanking, I don't expect my dps to go easy. I expect everyone to give their maximum and push my tanking to the limit. Sometimes I don't even guard my combat sentinels just to see what will happen. Also, hearing them scream "I'M TANKING" like little girls over TS3 breaks the monotonous boss fights and adds some flavor to encounters. When playing combat sent myself, tanks get no mercy. I'm leaping in the second I see the boss turn his gaze on the tank, activate the relic and unleash my opener. Got some new tanks in my ops group recently and I didn't use Force Camo just to see if I'd pick up aggro and how they will deal with the situation once I do. No one's going to get any better if not pushed to, and over, the limit. Edited October 29, 2013 by slafko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quazi-moto Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 ^ All of this. I'm going to paraphrase KBN here, from his Combat Sentinel guide, and say this: There is absolutely no reason a tank should not be able to hold aggro through any part of the fight, if said tank loses aggro, they're doing something wrong. If they lose it for any reason, they have taunts, and they really, especially if you're running HM ops, should know how to open up with their huge threat generators. For example: Shadow: Force Pull -> Slow Time -> Project -> Double Strike -> Potency + Shock -> Telekinetic Throw Guardian: (Saber Throw ->) Force Leap -> Force Sweep -> Master Strike -> Pommel Strike -> Guardian Slash Vanguard: Harpoon -> Storm -> Stock Strike -> High Impact Bolt -> Sticky Grenade -> Explosive Surge -> Full Auto (not sure where heat blast falls in here) My point here is that each tank spec has a high threat opening rotation they can use to prevent losing aggro at the start of the fight, and from there, if threat is really a problem, the tanks can taunt multiply their threat to insane levels, and should, since most of the current ops bosses have tank swaps at regular intervals. P.S. Feel free to correct me on the openers if you know better rotations. My Shadow rotation works for my raid group, but I'm always looking to improve. Other than shock being an assassin skill , that and I try to keep force pull for the stragglers, unless its a boss pull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Wow, derp moment on shock, there. And those were theoretically for a boss fight. I don't use Pull on Draxus, simply because the Subteroths come in wave one, and inevitably one will go to a dps, and it's really funny to watch them die midair. For most other bosses, though, I open with Force pull, which generates a pretty comfortable threat bubble for the first global cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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