Madness Dps in Arena, Fully Viable

[Devinia-Hex]

Your team rolled them either way. So what part of their team was actually playing? I didn't get why that video was posted also your team was from the bastion as they were saying in the Video and focused fired. If you watch some of that sorcs videos supoosedly the some of the best in the game you never see any pressure on them which I'm sure if they faced your group that would change.

 

Was that on the test server?

[Abbrachmann]

Your team rolled them either way. So what part of their team was actually playing? I didn't get why that video was posted also your team was from the bastion as they were saying in the Video and focused fired. If you watch some of that sorcs videos supoosedly the some of the best in the game you never see any pressure on them which I'm sure if they faced your group that would change.

 

Was that on the test server?

 

This was on live, two days ago. The reason its posted is because you said that you could take that tank and healer and match them up with two marauders and they would perform better.

My point is this, having defensive dispel is the reason why one sage is taken on all of the top teams now a days. They're hard to tunnel (sticking two melee on them means that you will never keep their healer controlled), and it can deal most of its damage while still moving. It needs to sit still for only a few seconds to get its main damage. It can peel marauders well.

In the video, our Vanguard is damaging the healers while I am damaging the marauder and the tank is assisting damage on whatever gets low. Read that again, both marauders sitting at 20% is just from me. Madness/Balance is very viable.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Abbrachmann

[Devinia-Hex]

I'm still not convinced as you were running 1 and that two marauder group was playing bad in almost all of the games they played. Your Vanguard was putting out a lot of pressure which is not related to balance sage. You might have added to it with dots that tic for what ? 900 at best. I went back and watched the video multiple times paused it , you can see in the video kills are being scored when the Vanguard is catching their team in his pulse cannon which happened frequently.

 

The health bars are not moving until pulse cannon hits his aoe pressure is what's doing them not your dots they were trying to coral you and your tank was guarding well to stuff their damage then they would get bursted and go defensive and their switches were slow. They would call out lack of guard but by the time both were on the target guard was already back up. They kept trying to set up cc on your healer but it never sounded like it ever got done and I never saw your team in any real trouble.

 

Also if that was their healer and tank a Sorc is going to take more damage from your team than a geared Mara would unless that was a ringer badly geared badly played mara. Sorcs have 0 aoe reduction and Mara is running 30% and the Pulse cannons was dropping them . If the healer/tank couldn't keep the mara's up they wouldn't keep the sorcs up the mara has far more defensive cooldowns passive reduction than the sorc.

 

The games aren't showing where the sorc/sage is outshining or winning games against good team/players it's there and that's great but we haven't seen why it's viable when the talents abilities and passive damage/reductions don't tell the story.

 

Even though you may be an exceptional Sage another Vanguard on that team if geared the same same skill level would yield the same results and be more durable and have more utility more cc and more cc breaks and more burst.

 

In 1v1 if you took the best of the best in the game all classes had the best of each class compete in a champions only matches the sorc/sage will places very near the bottom if not the bottom. Why this would happen is because we have less damage less damage reductions and less pretty much everything than other classes. We may have some exceptional sorc/sages that beat these other classes however at the highest level all things being equal that would not happen. What your doing with threads like this is reducing the chance the class will ever get any sort of buffs that it needs to be on equal ground with other classes just because your carried by XYZ classes.

 

Explain why it's viable otherwise stop wasting peoples time.

[orryko]

i already explained it multiple times, you're just dense, on an rp server, not rated/low rated, bad, probably s key and click...i mean i could go on all day

 

how about you explain why every r1 team on eu and us uses a sage/sorc? (aside from tofn where all they know is smash)

 

explain how mudclot and i beat every team as double madness? every team as madness/pyro merc?

 

everyone who wants all these buffs for sorcs DOESN'T DO 4s!!!!

 

we're all just laughing and hoping bioware does listen and give us increased damage, instant whirlwind, aoe reduction, and whatever else...because we know how much more easymode it will be.

 

in opfotm's video, it is clear that dot pressure, ranged interrupts, lift, and dispel help his team out a lot. and maybe on your rp server sorcs stand in flamethrower, but every good sorc i know saves sprint to run out of that.

[Devinia-Hex]

i already explained it multiple times, you're just dense, on an rp server, not rated/low rated, bad, probably s key and click...i mean i could go on all day

 

how about you explain why every r1 team on eu and us uses a sage/sorc? (aside from tofn where all they know is smash)

 

explain how mudclot and i beat every team as double madness? every team as madness/pyro merc?

 

everyone who wants all these buffs for sorcs DOESN'T DO 4s!!!!

 

we're all just laughing and hoping bioware does listen and give us increased damage, instant whirlwind, aoe reduction, and whatever else...because we know how much more easymode it will be.

 

in opfotm's video, it is clear that dot pressure, ranged interrupts, lift, and dispel help his team out a lot. and maybe on your rp server sorcs stand in flamethrower, but every good sorc i know saves sprint to run out of that.

 

I saw what others saw,

 

"There is one orbital station arena that the sorc is taking heavy damage, and no there is no kiting he is being in the middle of 3 dps getting heavy damage. He survives for sooooo long due to the amazing skills of your scoundrel healer. But most importantly is that during this orbital station round his dps is very very low and that's not his fault but simply a clear demonstration of how easy it is to shutdown a caster. Put some other class in his place and not only your healer would have less pressure but also your team would have actually been able to dps them down. In some other arenas I see mudclot facetanking people due to fast guard swapping and amazing healing again"

 

Your not doing anything special and the Mara video was kind of a joke if they can keep you alive they should have no trouble keeping a Mara Alive. Your Server is asking for more 4v4 because of lack of variety in teams. Your not making anything viable. You have low competition and lack of it by the sounds of things.

 

Face tanking with a sorc and your the best on your server? You're a joke. If you can face tank with a sorc you can face tank with any class how easy is that to figure out?

[orryko]

I saw what others saw,

 

"There is one orbital station arena that the sorc is taking heavy damage, and no there is no kiting he is being in the middle of 3 dps getting heavy damage. He survives for sooooo long due to the amazing skills of your scoundrel healer. But most importantly is that during this orbital station round his dps is very very low and that's not his fault but simply a clear demonstration of how easy it is to shutdown a caster. Put some other class in his place and not only your healer would have less pressure but also your team would have actually been able to dps them down. In some other arenas I see mudclot facetanking people due to fast guard swapping and amazing healing again"

 

Your not doing anything special and the Mara video was kind of a joke if they can keep you alive they should have no trouble keeping a Mara Alive. Your Server is asking for more 4v4 because of lack of variety in teams. Your not making anything viable. You have low competition and lack of it by the sounds of things.

 

Face tanking with a sorc and your the best on your server? You're a joke. If you can face tank with a sorc you can face tank with any class how easy is that to figure out?

 

you didn't answer any of my questions.

 

pot5 has the most active 4v4 scene besides tofn. we're trying to encourage average and lesser skilled people to queue up and learn from others who have alts, willing to teach, etc.

 

where are your ratings? with any class?

[Devinia-Hex]

i already explained it multiple times, you're just dense, on an rp server, not rated/low rated, bad, probably s key and click...i mean i could go on all day

 

how about you explain why every r1 team on eu and us uses a sage/sorc? (aside from tofn where all they know is smash)

 

explain how mudclot and i beat every team as double madness? every team as madness/pyro merc?

 

everyone who wants all these buffs for sorcs DOESN'T DO 4s!!!!

 

we're all just laughing and hoping bioware does listen and give us increased damage, instant whirlwind, aoe reduction, and whatever else...because we know how much more easymode it will be.

 

in opfotm's video, it is clear that dot pressure, ranged interrupts, lift, and dispel help his team out a lot. and maybe on your rp server sorcs stand in flamethrower, but every good sorc i know saves sprint to run out of that.

 

I'd have to research what every server has I doubt it's all sorc sages or if there is many there but I'll look into that and see. Tha't was a question not questions. About sprint the pull roots and sprint would be wasted if you trinket and sprint they most good vanguards would cryo you'd look like a new for blowing two cooldowns with no results ...oh wait. Watch opform's video? I did Dot pressure had about 5% to do with any pressure the Pulse cannons were droping the HP of multiple people in chunks.

 

Face tanking is good got it. Majority on your epic POT5 post of best sorc/sage is Mud, who's your character there?

[orryko]

i thought you said you've watched videos and streams of mud and i? how could you not know who i was? you sure are opinionated about everything when you don't even know who you're talking to.

 

just another rando projecting his deficiencies on an online forum

[Xeraz]

don't waste your time responding to that no-name rp server low rated challenger

 

I love how, after you say this to me, you then continue to reply to him.

[orryko]

I love how, after you say this to me, you then continue to reply to him.

 

i thought i could make a breakthrough by explaining things nicely

Edited November 23, 2013 by orryko

[Abbrachmann]

We clawed, we chained our hearts in vain

We jumped never asking why

We kissed, I fell under your spell.

A love no one could deny

 

Don't you ever say I just walked away

I will always want you

I can't live a lie, running for my life

I will always want you

 

I came in like a wrecking ball

I never hit so hard in love

All I wanted was to break your walls

All you ever did was wreck me

Yeah, you, you wreck me

 

I put you high up in the sky

And now, you're not coming down

It slowly turned, you let me burn

And now, we're ashes on the ground

 

Don't you ever say I just walked away

I will always want you

I can't live a lie, running for my life

I will always want you

 

I came in like a wrecking ball

I never hit so hard in love

All I wanted was to break your walls

All you ever did was wreck me

 

I came in like a wrecking ball

Yeah, I just closed my eyes and swung

Left me crashing in a blazing fall

All you ever did was wreck me

Yeah, you, you wreck me

 

I never meant to start a war

I just wanted you to let me in

And instead of using force

I guess I should've let you win

I never meant to start a war

I just wanted you to let me in

I guess I should've let you win

 

Don't you ever say I just walked away

I will always want you

 

I came in like a wrecking ball

I never hit so hard in love

All I wanted was to break your walls

All you ever did was wreck me

 

I came in like a wrecking ball

Yeah, I just closed my eyes and swung

Left me crashing in a blazing fall

All you ever did was wreck me

Yeah, you, you wreck me

Yeah, you, you wreck me

Edited November 23, 2013 by Abbrachmann

[OldSpiceSwag]

[Vladnar]

I posted this on the pvp forums but I wanted to come directly to the Sorcs on this. Below we have 3 different players with Team Rated streams showing it's viability.

 

Glory

http://www.twitch.tv/matchlessglory/b/472382530

 

Mudclot

http://www.twitch.tv/mudclot/b/472349584

 

Thurinlore (Start at the 9 Hour mark)

http://www.twitch.tv/thurinlore2/b/471983296

 

My only major complaint with Madness is the Force Issues, besides that though it seems to be just fine. Btw this is the spec Glory used, I'm assuming the others were the same or very similar.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZbc0MZcMfRsbkrfRR.3

 

 

 

HAVING NOT ACTUALLY TRIED IT YET as I sorcerer heal only in arena I would suggest that both madness and lighning are completely viable in arena AS healers are 90% the one and only target, I would go lightning and we would take that healer down asap and when both healers are dead WE HAVE A GAME, lightning can actually kill someone which is a lot more than can be said for a lot of the dpsers I keep getting paired with in solo.

[AdmiralParmesan]

HAVING NOT ACTUALLY TRIED IT YET as I sorcerer heal only in arena I would suggest that both madness and lighning are completely viable in arena AS healers are 90% the one and only target, I would go lightning and we would take that healer down asap and when both healers are dead WE HAVE A GAME, lightning can actually kill someone which is a lot more than can be said for a lot of the dpsers I keep getting paired with in solo.

 

The problem with lightning isn't it's damage potential, it's the ability to achieve that damage in arena.

[LordQordisz]

I don't know about the Force management. I remember Zannah who was a Sorc who sort of seemed to be of the Madness spec and how when she used something like Creeping Terror on this Chiss woman she got winded. Maybe Creeping Terror should hit harder. When Zannah hit the Chiss chick with it she was convulsing.

[MidichIorian]

HAVING NOT ACTUALLY TRIED IT YET as I sorcerer heal only in arena I would suggest that both madness and lighning are completely viable in arena AS healers are 90% the one and only target.

Do people actually believe that? If there's a OP healer and dps sorc on a team you'll go for the sorc first. The sorc is significally easier to kill, you don't have to deal with a bubbled OP healer and the other team will have to play one guy down early on.

[Devinia-Hex]

It's easier to kill the Op's dps then kill a Guarded Op in most cases. Even though an Op healer can have his 4 player hot rolling and his 2 stack single target hot rolling most of the time, however they don't respond to spike damage well, as they require a little HoT ramp up time.

 

When hots aren't enough especially on a soft target like a sorc getting focused then they need to hard cast to deal with the DPS. That's the time CC can happen and score a kill. Even if the guard is switching to a a sorc, it's defensive abilities are so lack luster that the DPS out of the sorc will be slim to none at which point the guard and the sorc are taking a lot of damage. If your team is on the defensive because your sorc is being focused there team is playing offensive with two dps and there tank likely all on the sorc with only 1 dps on your team getting any sort of output.

 

If your tank/healer is good you can perhaps weather the storm for a little while but It's going to be hard if you have three dps on you to get much more than instant dots out. T

 

the WW theory will likely get stunned or choked knocked back even a flash bang can interupt it . Also the pruple flames are a dead give away your using a cooldown that you can't be interupted. A better method would be to use the extra Alacrity for force regen and just fake cast an LS or CD , even a Dark Heal that they will interupt and then hard cast the WW . 99% of all players will bite on that. You can save the Cooldown for something usefull like getting dps out .

Edited November 29, 2013 by Devinia-Hex

[Devinia-Hex]

I have been leveling an Operative Healer and when facing Madness Sorcs I see some flaws with the Op healer as they can't dispell Sorc dots. Now mind you a single madness sorc isn't a huge threat on an Op healer unless they have some time on you but I can see now where two Madness sorcs getting out their full dots or even 5 of 6 out on an operative would be a lot of pressure. With guard maybe not to the same degree but unguarded with a well timed stun and they are certainly killable.

 

As a majority of teams are running op healers I see now where some success would come from running two madness sorcs if you could keep them alive through a zerg dps on one. I still think the sorc is very soft and this should be no problem for an equal team a counter for a sorc dps team would likely be a sorc/sage healer who can cleanse the dots however that will change with the new update making sorc/sage healers even more useless than now. If the teams are running multiple assasin dps they can shed the dots and still put out high single target damage on a sorc however a powertech/vanguard team could not but they do more spike damage then the sorcs would and have more control especially with 2 of them.

 

Pulse Cannon does a lot df damage and snares the target with two and a well timed cc by their tank to keep the sorc in the pulse cannon, kills can be had if they hit both at the same time and it would be hitting likely mutiple team mates as any good Vanguard would pull their target onto another enemy player. Two Vanguards working in tandom are going to put out alot more pressure than two sorcs.

 

I think if two sorcs are having success they are not facing equal skill level but I can see how they can beat unfocused melee with an average guard because the dots can't be healed by one Op healer for a length of time if the sorcs are unchecked. I think iin the sorcs case they need an excellent tank/healer to make this work and an average healer or tank either or is going to fail that team. So is it viable only if the stars aling which in 99% of all cases is no it is not. You need 4 players all at high levels you can't insert a guild mate who is a decent healer or tank or sorc otherwise it fails.

 

if you need all of that to make something work then it is not full viable with 4 good players. A game wide tournament style play would expose this make up as well and they would hit the showers early. For something to be fully viable a good team not a great team should be able to have success and as most will tell you that isn't the case. Also to be fully viable you can beat the best not just beat good teams but do it on a consistant basis not 1 out of 5 games if one of them is lagging.

 

Also the sorcs mentioned rating but there is no match making values in this game so you can't say if a rating means anything which it really doesn't because you are put in a queue with who ever is in the queue at the time.

So all the bs about look at this rating or win % means nothing if there was match making value and it was cross sever rated warzones it would actually mean something.

[crunchbarry]

I posted this on the pvp forums but I wanted to come directly to the Sorcs on this. Below we have 3 different players with Team Rated streams showing it's viability.

 

Glory

http://www.twitch.tv/matchlessglory/b/472382530

 

Mudclot

http://www.twitch.tv/mudclot/b/472349584

 

Thurinlore (Start at the 9 Hour mark)

http://www.twitch.tv/thurinlore2/b/471983296

 

My only major complaint with Madness is the Force Issues, besides that though it seems to be just fine. Btw this is the spec Glory used, I'm assuming the others were the same or very similar.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZbc0MZcMfRsbkrfRR.3

 

I think madness sorc is the least viable in solo ranked arena. Easily.

[Xeraz]

I think madness sorc is the least viable in solo ranked arena. Easily.

 

Dots, Bubbles, Kiting. I don't see how.

 

I highlighted a video specifically for Solo Ranked.

http://www.twitch.tv/matchlessglory/c/3246762

[Laforet]

I think madness sorc is the least viable in solo ranked arena. Easily.

 

Viable is different from optimal. Also any operative dps spec is way worse than madness even tho decent ops can chew us in duels.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Laforet

[Devinia-Hex]

It's funny this thread was started by POT5 Sorcs I spoke to a number of people who play there that moved from the Bastion and BC and both say they have seen better sorcs/sages and that the ones on POT5 are Squishy and tend to rage more then others. (they called it Potpie not POT5)

[Laforet]

Bastion > Pot5.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Another bastion <> Pot5 argument

 

why am I not surprised?

[Devinia-Hex]

The reason this thread has no value as they never really give any informative information regarding how they were able to overcome anything. They posted videos which did not show them in a good light in most cases the other teams were unfocused and the sorcs were able to face tank wins which I never saw that as having skill. The input they gave us was if you lose it's a L2P issue or your teams bad. They briefly mentioned they kite and dot and WW(that's why your viable?it's like I win games because I dot kite and whirlwind mmmk?) then in the video they are seen face tanking just wandering around the map randomly attacking players while not being attacked themselves even though they are the softest target in the game.

 

I already mentioned rating means nothing and why which was what they based Madness being fully viable off of. So really this thread was meant to balloon them up like something special when really it just shows they work the system and the video footage just highlighted that more.

 

When other teams aren't focused and when you can face tank with a sorc and win the other teams aren't good at all. So i don't think it's a Bastion>POT5 thing it's just the Good Sorcs>Op thing.