Tactical Marker

[befear]

Is it purely, only cosmetic?

 

Did BWEA promise that the CM would only contain cosmetic stuff from now on?

 

They're not going to throw us frogs into boiling water. They're going to put us in a nice, comfy pond and then increase the temperature very, very gradually. The race to p2w is a marathon, not a sprint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-win please read before throwing out "OMG PAY TO WIN" statements

[MillionsKNives]

Really? Nobody besides me is jumping on this for the issue that they're a useful, non-cosmetic item that are only created via extra cash transactions?

 

Against everything BWEA promised and promised again - that cartel market is COSMETIC ONLY?

 

Shame. When the community stops taking a stand against garbage moves like this, p2w is right around the corner.

 

I agree that this should be a basic feature and shouldn't be coming from CM. Tactical markers aren't fluff, they're a big function for group tactics. They've done well overall with keeping the CM to only fluff, a couple mishaps aside. Armor and weapon shells, vehicles, pets, random emotes, and jawagrams are fine. None of them really serve a functional purpose, but these markers do. For the ship upgrades there was at least the excuse that you could purchase them in game, but there is no analog or other method of acquisition in game right now for the markers.

 

That said, I don't believe this is a P2W situation.

Edited October 24, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[Primarch_PWnD]

While this is definitely not pay-2-win, it's insanely obnoxious to put such a useful QoL item in a paid RNG box.

 

ESPECIALLY after preaching about how the packs are supposed to only be cosmetic.

 

Why hasn't BW responded to this? What was their thought process behind this? Was there one?

 

These items are so useful that they should simply be added to the UI, or sold by the medpac/stim vendors for like 50 credits each.

 

I have a 60-year old dude and 50-year old women in my gaming group that have been gaming with us for a full decade now. Age isn't kind to any of us, especially when it comes to memory, and we've found that every time we enter EV or KP, they announce that they've never been there before (despite the 50-odd runs we've done since launch). These markers are perfect for people who don't have these runs memorized, so that the tactics can not only be explained, but can mark the spots we want people to run to.

 

People barely run EC anymore because of how technical and positionally scripted the fights are, how much easier would it be to take a PUG group in there and explain fights with these markers?

 

To put such an item in the packs is beyond disrespectful: now they're making us pay for QoL stuff......wonderful

 

I would love to hear a dev talk about this, because it's really infuriating. Each new patch or whatever lately has some mind-blowing weirdness to it.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Primarch_PWnD

[Woetoo]

• These shouldn't be available via the cartel market.
  
• These shouldn't be available on the GTN.
  
• These shouldn't even be an item. (reusable or otherwise)
  

 

They are a UI component. Or at least they would be in any other MMO. They should be part of the UI, available to anyone within a group who is promoted to raid leader or raid assistant via a keybind or similar UI solution.

 

It terrifies me that people expectations have shifted so much that PAYING REAL MONEY for raid markers is seen as anything but gouging.

 

As for Bioware, I don't know what worries me more... That you didn't think this through... or that you did. !?!!?

 

Nobody* is going think this is a good idea. Some will hate it (as I do). Some will dislike it. Some won't care. Some will defend it, but not because they LIKE it. There is absolutely no upside to this, at least from a player's perspective. You remember us... the players? We're the guys telling our friends to play the game or dump it like a hot sack of s***. Maybe the accountant's will like it, as long as they aren't tracking the people who walk away from the game because of initiatives like this.

 

*Okay, maybe not nobody. Such sweeping statements should be avoided. But to anyone who does think this is a good idea.. Dear gods, what is wrong with you people?!?!?

 

It's core MMO functionality. It's not cosmetic. It may not be essential, but it's sure as hell not useless either.

More than that, it spotlights the trend of where the Cartel Market is and where it's potentially heading.

 

Maybe it's time to launch a new customer initiative, Q/A, NewsFeed, Blog, Vlog, dinner with the developers, to shift the focus away from this abomination? It's okay, you can abandon it in 6 to 8 weeks - just like all the other initiatives.

 

Edit: Maybe this is another of Damion Schubert's attempts to prove to the higher ups that there are limits to what the community will accept from the cartel market (like he did with the grade 7 ship parts). If that's that's the case Damion... it clearly isn't working, please stop trying to help us and actually help us.

 

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Edited October 24, 2013 by Woetoo

[DarthTHC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-win please read before throwing out "OMG PAY TO WIN" statements

 

I didn't call THIS p2w. I said it violates BWEA's promise that CM was cosmetic only, and that is a step down the path to p2w.

[ImpactHound]

Once they become common and easy to use in large quantities please don't be surprised when people start drawing out giant 40ft swastikas with them. Speaking from experience with other games.

[curtkram]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-win please read before throwing out "OMG PAY TO WIN" statements

 

i clicked your link. it automatically redirected to free-to-play. a quick search showed that the terms "pay-to win" and "p2w" do not exist in that article, outside the part that says pay-to-win redirects to free-to-play.

 

so i assume you're suggesting that SWTOR is p2w? or you didn't click the link you asked us to read? i'm unclear on whay you're trying to say here.

 

this is not a "cosmetic" item. this is a useful item being introduced into the game soley through the cartel market. this is another step bioware is taking towards giving up on paying subscribers and content and moving the game focus to buying stuff in the cartel market. if they wanted subscribers to have access to this through in-game means other than the cash shop, they would have done that. being a subscriber does not give you access to all of the game; being a subscriber is lower tier than the subscriber plus model they're developing. that is a bad thing.

 

bioware's and ea's contribution to MMO pricing models is to essentially create a subscription model where subscription-only is not a viable option if you want access to the game.

[Nitblade]

good god, how does EA keep snatching epic failure from the jaws of victory?

 

these need to be given to the ops leader as he enters the op for free, it would have made more sense to add them to the marking mechanic but that ship sailed. What fish headed moron thought putting a useful game play enhancing feature into a gambling pack AND making it consumable was a good idea?

Amen to that Brother

 

Seriously, best option. Remove from Cartel Packs and make them UI elements.

if not, either make them craftable or reuseable or even have the Stim vendor sell them cheap, like 10-50 creds each & stacable

 

/Sarcasm On

Typical EA meeting

-Brainstorming Ideas

->Anything Useful? No. go back to step 1

Yes. proceed to next step

-Can we make it [worthless, unusable, frustrating, cash grab] Yes. Insert into new Cartel Pack

No. Go back to Step 1

-Observe player reaction. Gather Feedback. Send to EA_Execs@[/dev/null]

/End Sarcasm

Edited October 24, 2013 by Nitblade
added ideas

[NeoIshamael]

I agree with the emotions being displayed. I remember my progression runs on TFB and other ops. We always said how great raid/ops markers would be. So BW decides to make a profit and put them in the cartel packs. I can understand the logic in that methodology. However, the implementation is odd (at least to me). Why bind them? Why the 2 minute cool-down? It just seems to me like a double foul on BW's part. Not only do they take a useful OPS feature and monetize it ( as I said not a problem there ), but they decide to make them useless in protracted fights with the cool-down feature.

 

It is not the end of the world but just seems poorly thought out.

[Aries_cz]

Wait, so, what is the use of those? Marking place for people to stand so you do not need to tell them "stay near the wall" or what? What is wrong with existing Target Markers?

[Vandicus]

Really? Nobody besides me is jumping on this for the issue that they're a useful, non-cosmetic item that are only created via extra cash transactions?

 

Against everything BWEA promised and promised again - that cartel market is COSMETIC ONLY?

 

Shame. When the community stops taking a stand against garbage moves like this, p2w is right around the corner.

 

 

As I mentioned before I don't think Bioware's CM team realized that this wasn't simply another cosmetic item. Arguably they're nearly the same as banners and we could in theory use banners for similar functions(though that's not nearly as convenient and as a result not nearly as functional during a raid or warzone).

 

 

Personally I think Bioware didn't consider the potential in-game uses when they made these, probably figuring them as something similar to the banners.

[Nitblade]

Wait, so, what is the use of those? Marking place for people to stand so you do not need to tell them "stay near the wall" or what? What is wrong with existing Target Markers?

 

The existing markers can only be put on Mobs, not on a specific spot on the ground.

 

So giving us those markers as UI elements would let us mark Mobs or Area with their own symbols

[Fleurdelis]

This really needs to be a standard UI function. Tools for playing the game should be packaged into the UI. If this tool proves very useful then I will not be happy that it was placed into a pack.

 

if it proves to be useless fluff then I don't care.

 

 

(Yes, I do criticize the game where appropriate.)

 

 

I agree completely. Like the target marker this should be part of the ui. Not craftable. Not for sale. A part of the game. The way this is being introduced is totally pathetic.

[spiaal]

this is clearly the kind of feature that should be available to subscribers and f2p players could buy them.

this is not acceptable, what am I paying for ?

where can I vote against it ?

[DKNS]

Am i in time or the white-knights have already jumped in for defending the tactical markers as Cosmetic items obtainable from the Market? Edited October 25, 2013 by DKNS

[Pantaro]

so how many more pages do we need to get a bioware response? Safe to say the community agrees this needs to get changed and we deserve a response of some kind.

[JimG]

On the Harbinger, you can buy these things off the GTN for less than 500 credits each. Is this really THAT big of deal?

[Greywatcher]

Main reason this irks me is that its putting a useful item in the Cartel Market rather than in the hands of a crafter.

 

Whats wrong with a player being able to craft them? Gives a player something to craft that is useable by their Guild or is a way for them to make a small income. Sure, we can buy them off the GTN for, as someone said previously, 500 credits but then it means the suppliers are the lucky people that have the money to spend on the Cartel Market to get the packs and that have the luck to get the Tactical Markers.

 

Wouldn't it just be easier if they could be crafted? Reusable for those who have a purple version and are at the correct craft level (ie Stims for Biochem) and the Blue version for those whom don't have the Craft Skill.

 

Or as some suggested, have the ability as part of the UI.

 

Anyway, I might be a bit biased, as I love crafting and feel it is an area in SWTOR that is lacking (then again I played Istaria for ages which was very craft heavy but loved it).

[Morganha]

I've had a fairly interesting and good experience from the game so far, though I've only been playing a little over a year. However, these tactical markers are great! I took one look at them when I noticed they came from the pack I just opened and literally out loud went, "ooh! awesome!"

 

But then I noticed the "Consumed on Use" text, and I literally dropped my jaw.

 

That the hell? Really? These are only located in packs, they are perfectly beneficial for Ops, and yet they are only one-time use? This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in a money-making scheme in an MMO.

 

Come on, Bioware. Pull your heads outta your poop-hole and fix this.

[Nickious]

It appears these are now a legacy unlock now.

 

New Legacy Unlock: Raid Markers – They are available for 375,000 credits at Legacy level 20 or 300 Cartel Coins.

[NyxNoxNothing]

It appears these are now a legacy unlock now.

 

New Legacy Unlock: Raid Markers – They are available for 375,000 credits at Legacy level 20 or 300 Cartel Coins.

 

That's a step up. Although since it started at the bottom of a deep borehole it's not quite ground level yet. Still, i'm almost a little surprised that BW has apparently heard of the first rule of holes.

 

So at legacy level 20 you can either spend creds or CC to unlock them. Since i'm still a bit below Legacy level 20 on my highest level legacy do you know the quantity dispensed and the cooldown on the legacy markers?

[Jerba]

It appears these are now a legacy unlock now.

 

New Legacy Unlock: Raid Markers – They are available for 375,000 credits at Legacy level 20 or 300 Cartel Coins.

Yeah, that's not really stunning news since we were able to test it on the PTS already (I believe it cost 350k credits there) but I am pleasantly surprised at how quickly they added these; they fulfill everything we were asking for.

I wonder how they could let the word "raid" slip into their patch notes...

 

When you purchase this unlock, every one of your characters on the same server receives three new legacy abilities (for dps/tank/heal). You can even place them in your quickslots and keybind them.

And the best thing is, you can put out multiple markers at once. They are on the normal 1.5 sec GCD, so you cannot activate them as fast as the overhead icons, but still reasonably fast.

Here's a screenshot from when I was testing it on the PTS: http://i.imgur.com/XUnIF1q.jpg

Edited December 3, 2013 by Jerba

[CrazyMcGee]

Awesome They're getting faster and faster at implementing our feedback

[Infernixx]

I love this. Well done, BW.

[Nickious]

That's a step up. Although since it started at the bottom of a deep borehole it's not quite ground level yet. Still, i'm almost a little surprised that BW has apparently heard of the first rule of holes.

 

So at legacy level 20 you can either spend creds or CC to unlock them. Since i'm still a bit below Legacy level 20 on my highest level legacy do you know the quantity dispensed and the cooldown on the legacy markers?

 

Most with the exception of the companion,legacy perks can be completely bypassed levels by using CC.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Nickious