Why if the tank can't hold agro, it is their fault ?

[killerdcs]

It does give a damage buff to TkT /Force Lightning. It gives a 60% increase in crit for every tick of force lightning (which is by far your hardest hitting ability)

 

U are right, did a parse. learnt something new today. Thank u.

[TheSupaCoopa]

It goes both ways: If a tank cannot get enough agro to pull out off a DPS, than it is kind of their fault. However, if the DPS is over geared, than it is not the Tank's fault that they cannot keep up with the sheer numbers that the DPS is pulling.

Those that argue that giants should not be in a Tanking rotation seem to not know about "taunt fluffing". A taunt can be used to build up a good amount of aggro and also does not stop aggro from being generated. VGs/PTs and Shadows/Assasins can use their pulls on Bosses to increase threat(I sometimes do this).

All in all, it all comes down to skill of DPS(If they use their aggro drops correctly or not) And Tank(If they use taunts).

[steave]

It does give a damage buff to TkT /Force Lightning. It gives a 60% increase in crit for every tick of force lightning (which is by far your hardest hitting ability)

 

Still seems better to use it before rather than after project though, so you get both project and TkT boosted.

[CIhe]

Honestly when using taunts to pad your threat for an opener it depends on your group and how many attacks you can get in before you loose threat.

 

The guild I run with has some snipers who think its absolutely hilarious to open with orbital strike so the first hit ticks as they are already in mid cast of ambush with a insta snipe and follow through coming right behind it. So because I know this is on its way I Enrage ->saber throw -> jump -> back hand -> reflect -> smash -> crushing blow -> ravage -> taunt (with retaliations sprinkled in there when they are proced). this many not work for eveyone and god knows the unguarded Merc will sneak up on me in the opening with a lucky streak of crits. But this is because I know I can get away with that many attacks before I'll lose threat.

 

The way I figure the more hits I squeeze in before I taunt the more "fluff" threat I'm going to get from the taunt. So this whole what and when to taunt to me is more a knowing your group and what you can get away with them. This may all be common sense but I saw a lot of debate in the thread over what the "best" opener is and to me it seems there is no cut and dry best for every situation.

[THoK-Zeus]

Still seems better to use it before rather than after project though, so you get both project and TkT boosted.

 

No its not. Shock has a 45% chance to double proc and to eat both stacks.

[TACeMossie]

I know a vanguard who can hold agro off my combat sentinel without giving me a guard *and* without taunting in her opener. Guardians don't have quite as much snap threat as shadows, but they're still able to lay it on if they open appropriately:

 

I'd like to know what he does because I ALWAYS lose threat as a vanguard against the first tentacle against the Terror from Beyond, and if I use my AoE taunt on it the other tentacle also gets hit -_-

 

Every other fight im fine though.

[Leafy_Bug]

Did brontes a while back with my group, DPS-ers are all BIS 78 and on the first phase, I opened on the tentacle, my project, slowtime, were resisted one after another, DPS pulled, they got hit, and it reminded me of this thread. I wrote a formal apology to my damage dealers and tendered my resignation for making such mistakes when tanking.

 

 

I'd like to know what he does because I ALWAYS lose threat as a vanguard against the first tentacle against the Terror from Beyond, and if I use my AoE taunt on it the other tentacle also gets hit -_-

 

Every other fight im fine though.

 

 

Some tanks from the best PVE guilds on TOFN use attack adrenals at the final boss in TFB NiM.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

[steave]

No its not. Shock has a 45% chance to double proc and to eat both stacks.

 

Good point, thanks, will have to change my rotation then

[KeyboardNinja]

I'd like to know what he does because I ALWAYS lose threat as a vanguard against the first tentacle against the Terror from Beyond, and if I use my AoE taunt on it the other tentacle also gets hit -_-

 

Every other fight im fine though.

 

The tentacles are almost 20 meters apart. You can safely AoE taunt. :-)

 

One tricky thing about the TfB tentacles is that, unlike with most bosses, you're actually in melee range. Try doing your opener, and as soon as you have hit Stockstrike, back up to about 5 meters. That allows you to use your taunts and get the 130% threat that you're used to, rather than the 110% that you normally get on the tentacles. Once you've gotten both taunts off, you can get back in melee range (obviously, move in and out again if you need to stockstrike).

[Zoom_VI]

In most cases its the tank's fault.

 

However if the dps is dropping a flyby into a pack of mobs while popping a attack adrenal and doing 2x scatter bomb rolls plus incendiary grenade and thermal grenade, then it is entirely the DPS's fault for dying.

[steave]

In most cases its the tank's fault.

 

However if the dps is dropping a flyby into a pack of mobs while popping a attack adrenal and doing 2x scatter bomb rolls plus incendiary grenade and thermal grenade, then it is entirely the DPS's fault for dying.

 

Then you AOE taunt and say TYVM for all the extra threat they built for you.

[Zoom_VI]

Then you AOE taunt and say TYVM for all the extra threat they built for you.

 

Except they already died cuz they didn't call that they where doing it either, or asked if the tank had AoE taunt up.

 

If the DPS does something stupid like that its their fault period the tank shouldnt have to put up with it.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[SithTyre]

This is such an open ended answer. It depends on your group. Every tank has the tools to hold threat. Knowing when to do what and when to taunt is key. I run a third party program called PARSEC and have the threat meter always up. It tells me very quickly if I am going to play to the max threat generation style or if I can ease off a little. With either mode I am in, I ALWAYS will use my taunts- it just tells me when the best time would be to pop them.

 

I can usually get away with a enrage>saber throw>leap>scream>reflect>(poss taunt if I have high dps peeps blowing their wads)>smash>crushing blow>backhand>ravage>(possibly another taunt here if I am not high enough on the threat meter)>or continue with high dmg high threat abilities until taunt is needed or when the dps start creeping.

 

In PUGs or with new people who are not in your PARSEC, I just assume (by looking at each toons gear) what kind of playstayle I will need to use. Ultimately there is no perfect rotation, you have to be fluid enough to "feel" where you are for threat vs the dps in the OP/FP. I have run many FPs with semi-decent geared players and have rarely ever had to use taunts, then other times I am working my butt off continually fluffing my threat with taunts and those high threat abilities to keep it on me. Don't forget to guard at least one high dps also and take some of their aggro pulling out of the equation or at least make it harder for them to rip off you.