The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 16: Exar Kun vs. Darth Krayt

[UndyingHadyn]

Alrighty, here's my 2 cents:

 

Krayt and Kun would first engage in lightsaber combat. This would continue for a bit because both use Niman. However, let's say Kun mixed in some Jar'kai (he did have good knowledge of it) and the battle turns to a Force-off. Krayt will use Dark Transfer, let's say Kun takes the hit and uses a quick Dark Heal to recuperate. Here's where it gets interesting. Krayt will find Kun's weaknesses via Shatterpoint, but he can't exploit it immediatley. The second Krayt takes his time to focus and find the Shatterpoint, Kun pulls up a Force blast and knocks Krayt into a wall. Krayt would find himself disoriented, and Kun would use Force flight to quickly get to Krayt and impale him. Kun Wins.

 

So fail. So fail.

 

 

Kun has been too accustomed to fighting ******, that he has actually has inferiority written all over his pansy dance. Krayt would begin to utilize kun's arrogance against him, feigning defeat while using soresu form. Kun would see Krayt's "defence flaw" and forsake his predetermined pansy dance and go for a power strike. Krayt would then utilize his superior offensive abilities to dis-embowel the spoiled brat Exar-goon.

 

The battle would be less than a minute in length. Krayt would piss on kun's dismembered corpse.

[LadyKulvax]

So fail. So fail.

 

 

Kun has been too accustomed to fighting ******, that he has actually has inferiority written all over his pansy dance. Krayt would begin to utilize kun's arrogance against him, feigning defeat while using soresu form. Kun would see Krayt's "defence flaw" and forsake his predetermined pansy dance and go for a power strike. Krayt would then utilize his superior offensive abilities to dis-embowel the spoiled brat Exar-goon.

 

The battle would be less than a minute in length. Krayt would piss on kun's dismembered corpse.

 

There has not been one occasion in any battle where Kun has ever allowed his arrogance to blind his judgement or underestimate his opponent, you are so wrong here it almost makes me wonder if you even know anything about his fighting style.

[UndyingHadyn]

That is off-topic as Zannah has nothing to with this thread. Not only that, but her dueling skill and Force abilities pale in comparison to those of Krayt and Kun.

 

Lay off the bong bud. Zannah could totally destroy both those guys. Although Krayt would stand a better fighting chance.

[LadyKulvax]

Lay off the bong bud. Zannah could totally destroy both those guys. Although Krayt would stand a better fighting chance.

 

Your arguments are pointless, baseless and have no canonical bearing in any way, stop ranboy raging over this thread and either change your act or leave.

[UndyingHadyn]

There has not been one occasion in any battle where Kun has ever allowed his arrogance to blind his judgement or underestimate his opponent, you are so wrong here it almost makes me wonder if you even know anything about his fighting style.

 

Pfft...

 

Kun's arrogance was destined to become his undoing. It comes with with the territory of being a spoiled brat, uncontested *****. Somewhat similar to the big fish in a little pond syndrome. Kun lost the duel the minute Krayt laid eyes on him.

 

Face it, kun was a chump. Krayt is the champ.

[UndyingHadyn]

Your arguments are pointless, baseless and have no canonical bearing in any way, stop ranboy raging over this thread and either change your act or leave.

 

...but,but...

 

Terror is a cancer, devouring the mind from within. Strength, hope and wisdom are but thoughts to be consumed!!!

 

Arrogance can be added to your funny list.

 

It was added to kun's....

[Aurbere]

Lay off the bong bud.

 

I don't know how to respond to that.

[LadyKulvax]

Kun is nowhere near as arrogant as people make him out to be, he declared himself a Jedi Master and whilst that is not acceptable in the Orthodox Jedi Order, he proved he was more than the equal of one of the greatest Jedi Guardians of all time, Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Baas, whilst this is a rather arrogant thing to do, he is nowhere near as arrogant as a lot of other Sith are.

 

And the only other time where he was being seriously arrogant was when he declared he didn't need the help of the ancient Sith spirits, beyond that he was only being as arrogant as any other Sith, but compared to a lot of the major Sith Lords, he was almost an honourable person, he always respected his opponents and put them down as fast and hard as they could in a lightsaber duel.

 

Is he arrogant? yes, is he anywhere near as arrogant as some other Sith? not even close.

[Aurbere]

Kun is nowhere near as arrogant as people make him out to be, he declared himself a Jedi Master and whilst that is not acceptable in the Orthodox Jedi Order, he proved he was more than the equal of one of the greatest Jedi Guardians of all time, Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Baas, whilst this is a rather arrogant thing to do, he is nowhere near as arrogant as a lot of other Sith are.

 

And the only other time where he was being seriously arrogant was when he declared he didn't need the help of the ancient Sith spirits, beyond that he was only being as arrogant as any other Sith, but compared to a lot of the major Sith Lords, he was almost an honourable person, he always respected his opponents and put them down as fast and hard as they could in a lightsaber duel.

 

Is he arrogant? yes, is he anywhere near as arrogant as some other Sith? not even close.

 

I'd say he was one of the least arrogant Sith. Sure he declared himself a Jedi Master, but at least he didn't call himself the Sith'Ari like quite a few Sith tended to do.

[LadyKulvax]

I just realised something, I know what people will state 'He called himself the greatest of the Sith Lords', whilst he did, context must be taken into account here, he is calling himself the greatest to his knowledge and he likely is among those he knew of, you have the Ancient Sith, Freedon Nadd and Ulic Qel-Droma.... I think Exar Kun would most certainly be superior, whilst information is shady and over-dramatised at best on the Ancient Sith, i think this works against them.

 

Example: Star Wars: Clone Wars animated TV show... it was quite clearly a very liberal take and a lot of it is very much over the top, I feel the background story we've heard that relates to the Ancient Sith is just as over the top, Tulak Hord wiping out entire armies single-handedly? yeh I am not entirely convinced of that.

[Aurbere]

I just realised something, I know what people will state 'He called himself the greatest of the Sith Lords', whilst he did, context must be taken into account here, he is calling himself the greatest to his knowledge and he likely is among those he knew of, you have the Ancient Sith, Freedon Nadd and Ulic Qel-Droma.... I think Exar Kun would most certainly be superior, whilst information is shady and over-dramatised at best on the Ancient Sith, i think this works against them.

 

Example: Star Wars: Clone Wars animated TV show... it was quite clearly a very liberal take and a lot of it is very much over the top, I feel the background story we've heard that relates to the Ancient Sith is just as over the top, Tulak Hord wiping out entire armies single-handedly? yeh I am not entirely convinced of that.

 

I've found many contradictory things on Tulak Hord's powers.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

I've found many contradictory things on Tulak Hord's powers.

 

I tried researching them, came to the same conclusion as you

[sell-dog]

I just realised something, I know what people will state 'He called himself the greatest of the Sith Lords', whilst he did, context must be taken into account here, he is calling himself the greatest to his knowledge and he likely is among those he knew of, you have the Ancient Sith, Freedon Nadd and Ulic Qel-Droma.... I think Exar Kun would most certainly be superior, whilst information is shady and over-dramatised at best on the Ancient Sith, i think this works against them.

 

Agree 100%. As Kun did not know of Vitiate and his Empire, Kun statement of "I was the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith" is more an observation than a proclamation out of arrogance

[LadyKulvax]

Getting kind of quiet in this discussion section, a few regulars have dropped off recently.

[Aurbere]

Getting kind of quiet in this discussion section, a few regulars have dropped off recently.

 

So I've seen. What's up with that?

[LadyKulvax]

So I've seen. What's up with that?

 

Oh I am used to this, I am the last veteran of this section, the last guardian of sanity and canon in this discussion forum, the last of a dying breed, the last.... October 21st 2008 STAR WARS Discussion warden.

[Aurbere]

Oh I am used to this, I am the last veteran of this section, the last guardian of sanity and canon in this discussion forum, the last of a dying breed, the last.... October 21st 2008 STAR WARS Discussion warden.

 

You stand in the pantheon of greats who have graced these forums, but where others have fallen, you continue to stand, to defend what is right. A beacon of truth for those who might lose their way. The last of the STAR WARS Discussion Legends.

[Aurbere]

Since we're off-topic, I may as well talk about something new I found out.

 

I was doing the math on Plo Koon's age. In the Clone Wars comic In Service to the Republic, Plo Koon says that he is 382 Kel Dor years old. Apparently a Kel Dor year is 409 Coruscant/Earth days (according to wookieepedia). So I did the math and I found that Plo Koon is apparently 340 years old.

 

I won't say what my original assessment was, but I was way, way, way off.

 

Back on topic, I'm going to get working on a final decision for this match.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

Since we're off-topic, I may as well talk about something new I found out.

 

I was doing the math on Plo Koon's age. In the Clone Wars comic In Service to the Republic, Plo Koon says that he is 382 Kel Dor years old. Apparently a Kel Dor year is 409 Coruscant/Earth days (according to wookieepedia). So I did the math and I found that Plo Koon is apparently 340 years old.

 

I won't say what my original assessment was, but I was way, way, way off.

 

Back on topic, I'm going to get working on a final decision for this match.

 

Praying for an Exar Kun victory! Hope in the midst of the Bane fanboy thing that my scenario was read

[Beniboybling]

Dark Transfer is not an ability within the sphere of Sith Sorcery - proven by the fact that it can be used by drawing on both the light side and dark sides of the Force. It is a neutral Force Power. And regardless of that Shatterpoint will ensure that Kun is incapable of blocking the attack as it will strike when he guard is lowered.

 

The effect of Dark Transfer should therefore not be underestimated. As I have already stated the disparity between Exar Kun's and Krayt's abilities were minimal to say the least, and in fact an argument can be had the say that Krayt was actually superior. He certainly has the feats to back it up and has matched much of what Kun has achieved. For that reason we should not assume that Kun can just endure his attacks and certainly not break through Krayt's own barriers. Which is wishful thinking to say the least. Kun can't just choke him out I'm afraid.

 

In terms of Dark Transfer I'd instead I'd argue that the effects would be sever if Kun were to be struck with Dark Transfer. And for the following reasons.

 

1. It strikes at your weak points - I'd say dark transfer to be some kind of extrapolation of shatterpoint or at least in the same sphere. Dark Transfer essentially involves pouring Force energy into the 'fractures' of your opponent and causing that fracture to explode. Which makes it a dozen times more powerful than any standard attack.

 

2. It brought Cade to the brink of death - and Krayt would have been more than capable of killing him with it. Noting that Cade was one of the most powerful Force Users of his era. Kun being a likely more powerful Force User (though by no means massively) would likely not be killed, but the next step up is severe injury.

 

3. It incapacitates the target, when Krayt struck Cade with Dark Transfer he was powerless to resist. Kun would at least be stunned if not completely paralyses before he can gather his energies and fight back. At which point Krayt would likely have dealt a considerable amount of damage. And Kun certainly won't be in a position to fight.

 

I'd also like to see some evidence that demonstrates Kun to be capable of dark healing. Because that's the first I'd ever heard of it. Given that Aurbere hasn't made mention of it (and neither has Wookiee) I don't think we should just assume he has this ability in his repertoire because he's good with Sorcery and all. That's rather shaky.

 

Ultimately it boils down to the following:

 

Kun can't overwhelm Krayt in lightsaber combat in any manner of speed. Not only is Krayt highly skilled but also knowledgeable of Kun's form. With the element of surprise gone Kun is going to be in for the long haul.

 

Kun can't defeat Krayt with Force Blast - Kun didn't use this attack in battle for a reason. Its not the sort of thing you can just chain into a lightsaber sequence. It requires a brief pause to charge before being unleashed. And given that Krayt is both an agile Ataru specialist and possess excellent precognitive abilities dodging such an attack will be easy.

 

Kun can't tank dark transfer, dodging/blocking etc. is out of the question - at some point a hole in Kun's armour will appear and at that point Krayt will attack. And Kun simply isn't strong enough to come away from such a scenario with little enough injury to keep fighting and win - and to beat Krayt he'll need to be at full strength.

 

And that's why dark transfer will win it for Krayt. The disparity between these combatants in all fields is slim, and dark transfer acts as the tipping point. With Kun weakened his lightsaber capabilities, speed, strength and Force power will all take a hit - and then its just a case of him being overwhelmed with an Ataru onslaught.

 

NOTE: I also don't think we should dismiss Force Drain. This mysterious ability Kun possess lasts 'only for a short time' implying that it is not something always active. For that reason the first attack will connect and will sap at his energy, Kun will likely respond quickly but it will only tip the balance further in Krayt's favour. Especially if he exploits the opening it creates to follow up with a (charge) dark transfer attack which will be even more devastating.

 

P.S. Arrogance is a staple point of Exar Kun's personality. It would be most unwise to dismiss it.

[Beniboybling]

Alrighty, here's my 2 cents:

 

Krayt and Kun would first engage in lightsaber combat. This would continue for a bit because both use Niman. However, let's say Kun mixed in some Jar'kai (he did have good knowledge of it) and the battle turns to a Force-off. Krayt will use Dark Transfer, let's say Kun takes the hit and uses a quick Dark Heal to recuperate. Here's where it gets interesting. Krayt will find Kun's weaknesses via Shatterpoint, but he can't exploit it immediatley. The second Krayt takes his time to focus and find the Shatterpoint, Kun pulls up a Force blast and knocks Krayt into a wall. Krayt would find himself disoriented, and Kun would use Force flight to quickly get to Krayt and impale him. Kun Wins.

This is based on several assumptions:

 

1. The battle will turn into a Force-off. Why would this happen? Kun favoured total melee victory and Krayt will keep up a lightsaber engagement while he probes Kun for shatterpoints. They won't just randomly disengage.

 

2. Exar Kun can use dark healing, and instantly. And without Krayt springing on him immediately and breaking his concentration, which is what will likely happen. One doesn't simply "heal to full" and carry on.

 

3. Shatterpoint takes 'time to focus' as in enough concentration to force one to pause and become ignorant to one's surroundings and on top of that nullifies one's precognitive abilities. That is not the case, Shattepoints are in fact instant, if there is a shatterpoint, Krayt will see it immediately and act on it immediately.

 

4. Krayt would be disorientated enough by a Force Blast to do nothing and let his enemy run him through. Which in the unlikely situation of that happening, would likely result in Krayt rolling out the way or blasting Krayt with dark transfer while he's flying through the air and completely exposed. In that case Kun would die.

 

For those reasons I see this scenario as highly unlikely.

[LadyKulvax]

Exar Kun has absorbed sorcery techniques on four separate occasions, Dark Transfer is sorcery(Krayt learned the technique primarily from XoXaan, it is alchemy and he refined it's use due to Karness Muur and Andeddu's intervention), Kun would absorb it and given the magnitude of such power the resulting Force Blast charge would be very much on the high tier and would completely obliterate the entire area Krayt is stood in, this would result in an extremely serious injury if not death for Krayt, Krayt has no defence against this and he would be killed by such a high magnitude attack. Edited November 5, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[fellblade]

I'll go with an Exar Kun Victory in this contest.

[Beniboybling]

Exar Kun has absorbed sorcery techniques on four separate occasions, Dark Transfer is sorcery(Krayt learned the technique primarily from XoXaan, it is alchemy and he refined it's use due to Karness Muur and Andeddu's intervention), Kun would absorb it and given the magnitude of such power the resulting Force Blast charge would be very much on the high tier and would completely obliterate the entire area Krayt is stood in, this would result in an extremely serious injury if not death for Krayt, Krayt has no defence against this and he would be killed by such a high magnitude attack.

It being sorcery seems to conflict with the notion that it can be used by the light side of the Force... which would surely be an impossibility if it were a product of sith sorcery - i.e. the dark side of the Force.

 

Neither does that resolve the fact that thanks to shatterpoint the chances of Kun dodging, blocking or even anticipating such an attack are very slim. Krayt will strike when he is least able to defend himself and most exposed.

 

And since when is Force Blast an AOE power? A charged Force Blast wasn't even enough to kill Aleema Keto. I doubt Kun is going to be capable of some kind of Force bomb or whatever it is your suggesting. In the end as I have said again and again its highly likely that Krayt will simply dodge when Kun begins to build his energies.

 

Essentially I feel this is overlooking much of what I made clear (or rather repeated) in the above post.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

It being sorcery seems to conflict with the notion that it can be used by the light side of the Force... which would surely be an impossibility if it were a product of sith sorcery - i.e. the dark side of the Force.

 

Neither does that resolve the fact that thanks to shatterpoint the chances of Kun dodging, blocking or even anticipating such an attack are very slim. Krayt will strike when he is least able to defend himself and most exposed.

 

And since when is Force Blast an AOE power? A charged Force Blast wasn't even enough to kill Aleema Keto. I doubt Kun is going to be capable of some kind of Force bomb or whatever it is your suggesting. In the end as I have said again and again its highly likely that Krayt will simply dodge when Kun begins to build his energies.

 

Essentially I feel this is overlooking much of what I made clear (or rather repeated) in the above post.

 

Dawn of the Jedi clarified that any 'healing' ability is based on Alchemy or the transfiguration of life which is Sorcery, Force Healing is not natural and is the sole Dark Side ability that Jedi are not corrupted by, the ability to use the Light Side of the Force and Dark Side of the Force to use said ability does not make it an exception to this rule, which itself is cleared up by, again, Dawn of the Jedi.

 

And how do we even know that Shatterpoint can be used in this way by Krayt? he certainly didn't use the ability in combat, there is a considerable leap of faith going on here that Krayt could not only use it in combat but also effectively enough to take Kun down or out, look at Traya, did we see her specifically use it in combat? nope, did she use it to predict future events, etc...? I imagine so, look at Windu, the sole time he ever had a Shatterpoint that reflected the future of the galaxy, was when he was right in the middle of what the RotS novel describes as 'the largest Shatterpoint in the history of the galaxy', beyond that he only ever managed to use it significantly in combat.

 

Force Blast can be used in varying degrees and we have gone over and over and over with the Aleema Keto scene, I have told you why she could just barely stop it from completely killing and we know as a matter of fact that Kun use it instantaneously that time because Aleema barely acknowledge what he was doing before he did it.

 

Kun's maximum impact Force Blast devastated the spirit of Freedon Nadd and almost collapsed the tomb around him, in effect it was an AoE blast that destroyed an area, not one directed beam.