Jedi Guardian Changes - Game Update 2.5

[Keleus]

I fail to see how you can't see why it's useful to have for everyone else, but fair nuff. I still think the Battle Meditation is a genius idea and should be implemented. I'd say more, but it's 330am to me and I am oh so very tired

[JonnyMadDog]

Keep it coming...keep it coming...am devouring this all lol. And chompin at the bit for some combo of all r suggestions to be implemented at some point SOON (not Soon).

[ekimmak]

Huh?

 

I always thought that the crit chance stacked by 50% twice, so it was a 100% chance of a crit on blade storm/force scream. Have I been wrong this whole time?

[Creslan]

Honestly, I would just prefer the pre 2.0 Force rush over my suggested changes, but getting something changed back would be harder than modifying it I think, at least it stays within the essence of the 2.0 change. Edited October 26, 2013 by Creslan

[tunewalker]

Honestly, I would just prefer the pre 2.0 Force rush over my suggested changes, but getting something changed back would be harder than modifying it I think, at least it stays within the essence of the 2.0 change.

 

Rather then calling the ability Battle Meditation you can call it Battle Meld. In lore the difference between the 2 was Battle meditation affected a large number of people both ally and enemy while a Battle Meld generally only affected a small number of people (2 or 3 max) and it was only allies allowing them to work together with synergy not seen even with Battle meditation.

[Hakkology]

Battle Meditation- Only useable in Shien and Shi-Cho form, A toggle ability similar to guard that increases the damage or/and healing done by both the guardian and the person he is Meditating with by 5%, while reducing threat. Not useable in Soresu Form. It does not do anyting a normal guard does except reduce the threat of both targets by a very small amount.

 

This is one of the best ideas i have ever heard.

 

Shadow and Guardian dps classes could use this buff, would make things a lot of fun and give these classes a small buff, increasing their raid viability. Of course, would be wiser to drop the percentage by %3, which is the equivalent of a sentinel inspiration in 8 man groups dps buff wise.

 

Still amazing idea.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Hakkology

[Keleus]

Battle Meditation, here's a Spin on it:

 

Guardian's Favor - The Guardian Focuses the Force on one target Player, increasing all damage and healing be 3%, while also reducing all damage taken and healing received by 3% for both the Guardian and his ally. Range is 30 yards, only one player may have Guardian's Favor on at any given time.

 

This way Shadows can have something similar, let's say:

 

Battle Mediation - All party members within the Shadow gain 5% increase to all damage and healing done and reducing threat by a moderate amount at all times. The Shadow using Battle Meditation also receives this ability increase.

 

See, I want all the classes to be kick ***. Shadows and Guardians and Vanguards are in need of the most love imho. Also the massive difference between the two is that one focuses on one player and his ally, the other the entire raid group. Not the whole raid, that'd be silly. But the entire group? I'd jump at the chance to have a Shadow or two in my run! Also, if BW was smart in this, they would change their minds and NOT nerf Slinger's and Sentinels but just do these changes to Shadows and Guardians instead. I am no Shadow, I do not know what you guys need and don't need, but I am assuming here, and you may assume that I am an *** in advance, that an ability like this would help you.

 

I would also assume something similar but more tech based would also help Vanguards out quite a bit.

 

Here's more stuff I'm going to throw out there again, just to make sure it's heard:

 

Blade Rush - Increases the critical strike chance of Blade Storm by 50/100% AND the critical strike damage of Blade Storm by 25-50%

 

Keening - Up the damage from our burn effects from 9% to 12%. Seems fair and logical, no?

 

Plasma Brand - Increase the direct damage portion (aka the flat hit, not the DoT) of it so it hits as hard as say....Overhead Slash, (so we're looking at what, a 10-15% increase for damage on that part alone?) and make it so it refreshes all burns on the target and weakens them to Elemental Damage, thus all allies' elemental attacks will do more 5% more damage to them.

 

Combat Focus - When using this, all party and raid members gain 5% Alacrity for 30 Seconds. I say 30 because of the lengthy cool down on the move itself.

 

Narrowed Focus - Ditch it, it's freaking useless. Instead make it so that whenever you critical strike with a direct damage attack you increase all melee damage done by 1%, stacks 5 times, lasts 10 Seconds.

 

Preparation - I like this for the convenience but alas, let's be real with ourselves now. Keep the part where it refreshes X and Y after combat, but make it so that while in combat there's a chance to make Plasma Brand and Overhead Slash completely ignore the Global Cooldown and/or refresh the abilities for use.

 

Force Lash - No longer a talent but is now a passive skill -All Guardians Have- and has it's damage increased only slightly. Why only slightly you might ask? Because Force Lash would then proc off of ALL lightsaber based attacks, not just Slash. i.e Plasma Brand, Overhead Slash, Strike, Master Strike, Sundering Strike, you get the idea.

 

Anyone want to tell me why this would be a bad idea, now would be the time. If anyone can't do this, then somebody want to tell me why Bioware doesn't listen to us?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Keleus

[OlosBC]

JMD for class rep!!!

 

The whole game needs to experience the sensation!

[GregAlia]

Battle Meditation, here's a Spin on it:

 

Guardian's Favor - The Guardian Focuses the Force on one target Player, increasing all damage and healing be 3%, while also reducing all damage taken and healing received by 3% for both the Guardian and his ally. Range is 30 yards, only one player may have Guardian's Favor on at any given time.

 

This way Shadows can have something similar, let's say:

 

Battle Mediation - All party members within the Shadow gain 5% increase to all damage and healing done and reducing threat by a moderate amount at all times. The Shadow using Battle Meditation also receives this ability increase.

 

See, I want all the classes to be kick ***. Shadows and Guardians and Vanguards are in need of the most love imho. Also the massive difference between the two is that one focuses on one player and his ally, the other the entire raid group. Not the whole raid, that'd be silly. But the entire group? I'd jump at the chance to have a Shadow or two in my run! Also, if BW was smart in this, they would change their minds and NOT nerf Slinger's and Sentinels but just do these changes to Shadows and Guardians instead. I am no Shadow, I do not know what you guys need and don't need, but I am assuming here, and you may assume that I am an *** in advance, that an ability like this would help you.

 

I would also assume something similar but more tech based would also help Vanguards out quite a bit.

 

Here's more stuff I'm going to throw out there again, just to make sure it's heard:

 

Blade Rush - Increases the critical strike chance of Blade Storm by 50/100% AND the critical strike damage of Blade Storm by 25-50%

 

Keening - Up the damage from our burn effects from 9% to 12%. Seems fair and logical, no?

 

Plasma Brand - Increase the direct damage portion (aka the flat hit, not the DoT) of it so it hits as hard as say....Overhead Slash, (so we're looking at what, a 10-15% increase for damage on that part alone?) and make it so it refreshes all burns on the target and weakens them to Elemental Damage, thus all allies' elemental attacks will do more 5% more damage to them.

 

Combat Focus - When using this, all party and raid members gain 5% Alacrity for 30 Seconds. I say 30 because of the lengthy cool down on the move itself.

 

Narrowed Focus - Ditch it, it's freaking useless. Instead make it so that whenever you critical strike with a direct damage attack you increase all melee damage done by 1%, stacks 5 times, lasts 10 Seconds.

 

Preparation - I like this for the convenience but alas, let's be real with ourselves now. Keep the part where it refreshes X and Y after combat, but make it so that while in combat there's a chance to make Plasma Brand and Overhead Slash completely ignore the Global Cooldown and/or refresh the abilities for use.

 

Force Lash - No longer a talent but is now a passive skill -All Guardians Have- and has it's damage increased only slightly. Why only slightly you might ask? Because Force Lash would then proc off of ALL lightsaber based attacks, not just Slash. i.e Plasma Brand, Overhead Slash, Strike, Master Strike, Sundering Strike, you get the idea.

 

Anyone want to tell me why this would be a bad idea, now would be the time. If anyone can't do this, then somebody want to tell me why Bioware doesn't listen to us?

 

Great ideas. And I see hundreds of great ideas on what to do with Vengeance. However all that we can hope to see in the hazy future is a slight change in RNG and a change in Enraged Defense (even if they remove the rage activation cost we are still gimped while focused because of the rage suck so hope it changes completely). We got the root they talked about already(no real PvE help) and those where the only other changes they said they were entertaining. So as I see it nothing is going to change anytime soon and when it finally does it won't be much. They aren't going to do any of the creative ideas posted on the forum every day.

[AndrewanCyabos]

Battle Meditation, here's a Spin on it:

 

Guardian's Favor - The Guardian Focuses the Force on one target Player, increasing all damage and healing be 3%, while also reducing all damage taken and healing received by 3% for both the Guardian and his ally. Range is 30 yards, only one player may have Guardian's Favor on at any given time.

 

This way Shadows can have something similar, let's say:

 

Battle Mediation - All party members within the Shadow gain 5% increase to all damage and healing done and reducing threat by a moderate amount at all times. The Shadow using Battle Meditation also receives this ability increase.

 

See, I want all the classes to be kick ***. Shadows and Guardians and Vanguards are in need of the most love imho. Also the massive difference between the two is that one focuses on one player and his ally, the other the entire raid group. Not the whole raid, that'd be silly. But the entire group? I'd jump at the chance to have a Shadow or two in my run! Also, if BW was smart in this, they would change their minds and NOT nerf Slinger's and Sentinels but just do these changes to Shadows and Guardians instead. I am no Shadow, I do not know what you guys need and don't need, but I am assuming here, and you may assume that I am an *** in advance, that an ability like this would help you.

 

I would also assume something similar but more tech based would also help Vanguards out quite a bit.

 

Here's more stuff I'm going to throw out there again, just to make sure it's heard:

 

Blade Rush - Increases the critical strike chance of Blade Storm by 50/100% AND the critical strike damage of Blade Storm by 25-50%

 

Keening - Up the damage from our burn effects from 9% to 12%. Seems fair and logical, no?

 

Plasma Brand - Increase the direct damage portion (aka the flat hit, not the DoT) of it so it hits as hard as say....Overhead Slash, (so we're looking at what, a 10-15% increase for damage on that part alone?) and make it so it refreshes all burns on the target and weakens them to Elemental Damage, thus all allies' elemental attacks will do more 5% more damage to them.

 

Combat Focus - When using this, all party and raid members gain 5% Alacrity for 30 Seconds. I say 30 because of the lengthy cool down on the move itself.

 

Narrowed Focus - Ditch it, it's freaking useless. Instead make it so that whenever you critical strike with a direct damage attack you increase all melee damage done by 1%, stacks 5 times, lasts 10 Seconds.

 

Force Lash - No longer a talent but is now a passive skill -All Guardians Have- and has it's damage increased only slightly. Why only slightly you might ask? Because Force Lash would then proc off of ALL lightsaber based attacks, not just Slash. i.e Plasma Brand, Overhead Slash, Strike, Master Strike, Sundering Strike, you get the idea.

 

Anyone want to tell me why this would be a bad idea, now would be the time. If anyone can't do this, then somebody want to tell me why Bioware doesn't listen to us?

 

Agreed on most of your suggestions here, coupled with some of mine. Question though about the raid utility abilities you listed first.

 

Guardians favor has a lower increase to damage and healing done than its shadow counterpart. It also affects fewer people. I would say switch the numbers, and get rid of the decrease to healing received and you're good. Then just a few other little tweaks to buff our damage output with base abilities- PLASMA BRAND...errr yeah...base abilities.

 

Seriously Devs, I get the Plasma Brand is more about the DoT that it applies than being an attack itself but the damage it puts out is horridly low. If the DoT were compressed to 9 secs(while still putting out the same TOTAL damage) it would be much better, but still far from optimal.

 

With everyone's permission, I'd like to compile these suggestions (Removing overlapping ones from appearing multiple times) and then we can discuss everything we have thus far.

[Keleus]

The fact that people aren't lighting into me makes me glow on the inside. As for Guardian's Favor and Battle Meditation, I have them that way to make them more different but still semi balanced. With the guardian's version it's a one on one thing, and since Guardians are often thrown into the fray as a sort of offtank, it would do very well to have a guardian be group up with a tank to give them the buff. This is a tank friendly support system I thought of, one pretty much meant to make sure a tank can keep up with his dps and bosses.

 

The shadows is a dps and heals friendly version, especially on raid aoe fights, where the entire ops is constantly taking damage. Also, it gives more of one thing but alas does not make you any less squishy, thus the extra 2% to dmg and heals and reduced threat, since the guardian can be in the same raid group as the shadow, and while he may not receive the full 5%, he will gain the lesser threat bonus.

 

Or something.

 

Not entirely sure here, rest is up to the devs to work out I'm just a suggestion dude.

[Keleus]

Double post, I apologize; Yes, you very much have my permission to use my suggestions to send to the Devs. Also in light of the removal of Force Lash, I would suggest tossing in a new talent in it's place, a little something like...........

 

 

 

Force Shocked - After a successful Force Sweep, all afflicted targets have their defenses lowered by 5% to all forms of damage for 15 seconds.

 

Tell me that won't be highly sought after and ranted about in PvP. In fact, might want to lower that to 3 or even 2%, because that's just plain scary to stack with everything.

[KarethRiker]

This is one of the best ideas i have ever heard.

 

Shadow and Guardian dps classes could use this buff, would make things a lot of fun and give these classes a small buff, increasing their raid viability. Of course, would be wiser to drop the percentage by %3, which is the equivalent of a sentinel inspiration in 8 man groups dps buff wise.

 

Still amazing idea.

 

Love this idea!

[Creslan]

My goal for thinking up Battle Meditation was to give the Guardian a small useful group utility ability. The name was secondary to how the skill actually worked, call it what you will. My intent was to keep it as more of a DPS guard, a way for guardian and 1 other to increase their battle potency, almost like a Knight and his padawan that fight in unison, or the guardian and 1 other that have melded their attack styles.

 

I like that the community has taken to this idea and like that it has sparked even more Ideas for other classes and different uses, but I stand behind its initial description. I still think it should be a 5% buff applied to both players however, I leave that up to the Developers if they decide to run with this idea, I and it seems many other guardians, hope they do.

 

As for a shadow version, You could make it a secondary effect from Infiltration/Balance phase walk with a 30 meter diameter from placement, but that would be for the DEVS decide if they choose to run with the initial idea.

 

I hope the developers will consider the initial idea in their class development, if not now, perhaps in the future as a new ability from an expansion or somewhere down the road.

[JonnyMadDog]

Like the enthusiasm of the postrs here and their suggestions (not sure if the one talkn bout mself above is legit, if not and is moking...go bak to yr bridge, if so, thx...guess).

 

Keep up the good work! Save r spec! Save r spec! Save r spec!

[GregAlia]

I have to say the idea of an Offensive guard is a wicked idea.

[sainik]

I have to say the idea of an Offensive guard is a wicked idea.

 

Yes I think it is a very good idea. Kind of like the brother skills in LOTRO ...

[Creslan]

Narrowed Focus and Gather Strength, the 2 red headed stepchildren of our Vigilance tree, You have to take 1 point to move up the tree, but the thought of spending a point on either is depressing.

 

I would rework them and combine them.

 

Call it Narrowed Strength 1 talen point. ( or whatever).( Place this in Narrowed Focus's current slot). You generate 1 focus when taking area of effect damage as well as a stacking buff that increases the damage of your next master strike by 3% while in shien form, stacks twice. So area effect dmg would increase the damage or our next master strike by either 3 or 6%. (can play with the % increases). Remove the impaired movement restriction and just get rid of gather strength.

 

This would make room for our new MS root talent for those pvpers that want to take it. PVE guardians wouldn't feel they are wasting a point to progress up the tree, and PVP guardians would take it due to the amount of AOE thrown around the warzones.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Creslan

[GregAlia]

Battle Meditation, here's a Spin off

This way Shadows can have something similar, let's say:

 

Battle Mediation - All party members within the Shadow gain 5% increase to all damage and healing done and reducing threat by a moderate amount at all times. The Shadow using Battle Meditation also receives this ability increase.

 

That might be way to much. Especially in arena's or a WZ if no sins are on your team. And it absolutely could not stack lol.

Edited October 28, 2013 by GregAlia

[GregAlia]

Narrowed Focus and Gather Strength, the 2 red headed stepchildren of our Vigilance tree, You have to take 1 point to move up the tree, but the thought of spending a point on either is depressing.

 

I would rework them and combine them.

 

Call it Narrowed Strength 1 talen point. ( or whatever).( Place this in Narrowed Focus's current slot). You generate 1 focus when taking area of effect damage as well as a stacking buff that increases the damage of your next master strike by 3% while in shien form, stacks twice. So area effect dmg would increase the damage or our next master strike by either 3 or 6%. (can play with the % increases). Remove the impaired movement restriction and just get rid of gather strength.

 

This would make room for our new MS root talent for those pvpers that want to take it. PVE guardians wouldn't feel they are wasting a point to progress up the tree, and PVP guardians would take it due to the amount of AOE thrown around the warzones.

 

We can dream.

[Creslan]

Battle Meditation, here's a Spin off

This way Shadows can have something similar, let's say:

 

Battle Mediation - All party members within the Shadow gain 5% increase to all damage and healing done and reducing threat by a moderate amount at all times. The Shadow using Battle Meditation also receives this ability increase.[e/QUOTE]

 

That might be way to much. Especially in arena's or a WZ if no sins are on your team. And it absolutely could not stack lol.

 

I agree, 5% affecting all party members is too much. You could set it at 3% and still be golden, as long as it affects the entire group, and like I suggested earlier, a secondary effect from phase walk.

[GregAlia]

I'm still waiting on the Enraged Defense rework. I hope however they decide to fix it it doesn't rage starve us. Anybody got ideas on how to keep the concept but fix the skill?

[ArenCordial]

snip

 

Anyone want to tell me why this would be a bad idea, now would be the time. If anyone can't do this, then somebody want to tell me why Bioware doesn't listen to us?

 

I hope you don't mean all of those ideas. I like the utility ideas, but as for all the damage buffs....that'd be way too OP

[ArenCordial]

I'm still waiting on the Enraged Defense rework. I hope however they decide to fix it it doesn't rage starve us. Anybody got ideas on how to keep the concept but fix the skill?

 

I liked Marb's idea. Basically its a normal threat dump with NO Focus cost, but if you spec into it.

 

Vigilance (Commanding Awe): Gives you 15% damage reduction and cleanses movement impairing effects.

 

Focus (Through Peace): Gives you +3% health per second over 10 seconds.

Edited October 28, 2013 by ArenCordial

[AndrewanCyabos]

Hey guys, me again. With the creators permission I have edited his idea for Battle Meditation and Guardians favor. I'm still tweaking the wording, along with a brief explanation. Ill post them in the morning, it's very late here, and then get to work on compiling everything we have settled on here. Ill probably post the compilation in a new 'Brainstorming' similar to those I have seen on other class forums. With what I have, I think everyone will be happy. Then maybe we can get the theorycrafters to give us the numbers to support our recommendations, and forward the whole package tithe devs(provided they actually listen).

 

P.S. I am intrigued by their remark about reworking Focused Defense/Enraged Defense. Let us hope the devs listen to our pleas and give us an aggro dump that won't tear our mediocre dps to shreds. I love this class and wish that the dps I put out was consistent and high enough for progression level operations. So give us the aggro dump, next step-a reason to use it.