Bring back the stun bubble as a bandaid for sorcs

[Zoom_VI]

Unless it's a significant number, like over 50%, 2 sec damage resistance buff after the shield is broken would be even more useless than bubblestun against nonstealth. As you said, they would just hold off the damage (and use this 1 and a half gcd to apply utility like slows, DoTs, or what have you).

 

If we approach this from a damage reduction perspective, I believe it should either be considerable (like over 30-ish% for 4-5 seconds), or it should be noticeable (like 10%), but lasting for the entire duration of the Deionized debuff, like the other person suggested.

 

But, as I said, I'm really not in favour of the idea of just giving everyone medium+ armour.

 

It would probably be better to have it as 50%+ for 2 seconds which was the number I was actually thinking of.

Providing 10% or so raw mitigation for the deionized debuff would be putting sages over the medium armor DR level (if DR is applied to the debuff then sorcs will just bubble on CD and have 100% uptime on it.)

The class is clearly supposed to be a squishy class that relies on kiting. Every MMO has a casting kitier class. There are some very very good sorc/sages out their that run circles around everything, but their are vastly more sorcs who think they are juggernuats and facetank everything.

 

More kiting tools not raw mitigation, classes should play differently, not all rDPS should paly exactly like snipers and not all melee should play exactly like mauraders

[snaplemouton]

More kiting tools not raw mitigation, classes should play differently, not all rDPS should paly exactly like snipers and not all melee should play exactly like mauraders

 

That's simply overexagerating it...

It's like saying snipers should be able to one shot people because they can't be playing like other classes and deal roughly the same damage.

Classes should obviously be different, but that doesn't mean putting it to the extreme. Sage/Sorc arn't getting cover, interrupt immunity, CC immunity, high defense chance, damage reduction talents from standing still etc etc etc. No. They'll simply be taking less damage removing the death mark on their head.

Changing their damage reduction to something more toward medium armor isn't gonna remove their uniqueness. It's not gonna change their skill set, not gonna do anything to their gameplay or rotation. Sniper are turret rDPS, mercs are Meatbag rDPS, sorc will still be the squishiest and play the same as it did before. Except, this time they won't get killed in a global.

Edited October 15, 2013 by snaplemouton

[Ren_simp]

All that sages need is force wave to be inline with force leap

Force leap is 15 seconds force wave needs to be 17 seconds not 20 seconds.

And force slow needs to be reworked maybe attach it to force wave as an additional aoe slow.

 

Sage ecsacape tools are out of sync with melee and this need a to be addressed

[OldSpiceSwag]

@op make stunbubble baseline for sorcs but the exact same as it is now. same with fadeout. and actually if you want to solve pretty much all of sorcs defensive problems just make force shroud and inquisitor ability not only sins

[mulzii]

i'd rather see a skill where you get hit with a melee attack and it teleports you to a random location. points in the skill determine cooldown and how far it teleports you..heh

[Laforet]

That's simply overexagerating it...

It's like saying snipers should be able to one shot people because they can't be playing like other classes and deal roughly the same damage.

Classes should obviously be different, but that doesn't mean putting it to the extreme. Sage/Sorc arn't getting cover, interrupt immunity, CC immunity, high defense chance, damage reduction talents from standing still etc etc etc. No. They'll simply be taking less damage removing the death mark on their head.

Changing their damage reduction to something more toward medium armor isn't gonna remove their uniqueness. It's not gonna change their skill set, not gonna do anything to their gameplay or rotation. Sniper are turret rDPS, mercs are Meatbag rDPS, sorc will still be the squishiest and play the same as it did before. Except, this time they won't get killed in a global.

 

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

HELLO BIOWARE?

[Valentyna]

I play a sorcerer. This is a bad idea.

[MidichIorian]

-snip-

You really need to not post on this topic ever again. At this point I'm certain that there are several of us, including myself, who question if you've even played the class.

[Odyseus]

We need the stun bubble back. We had it for a year and a half, the only reason it was taken away because melee cried til the cows came home that we weren't free kills anymore. Sorc isn't a universal class. It's a class that fits people with certain skill sets because it's poorly designed. I refuse to play my Sorc until they're fixed. However I won't be holding my breath. Edited October 16, 2013 by Odyseus

[Odyseus]

I play a sorcerer. This is a bad idea.

 

It's obviously not your main.

[OldSpiceSwag]

I play a sorcerer. This is a bad idea.

 

most likely not well

[snaplemouton]

You really need to not post on this topic ever again. At this point I'm certain that there are several of us, including myself, who question if you've even played the class.

I could not care less if you believe I don't play the class.

And I'll post here if I want to. Feel free to report me to Bioware if I ruin your foruming experience.

 

Seeing how people ask for stupid changes that aren't needed rather then something much needed like passive DR just shows how much mostly all sages/sorcs in this game are backpedaling forcespeeder that wants the game to play for them.

[LTmudbutt]

game is hard

[Laforet]

game is hard

 

Not for THE MARAUDER.

[MidichIorian]

Seeing how people ask for stupid changes that aren't needed rather then something much needed like passive DR just shows how much mostly all sages/sorcs in this game are backpedaling forcespeeder that wants the game to play for them.

Asking for a passive defensive ability is rendering the whole point of armor classes moot and makes you come across as a facetanking newbie.

 

To make things worse, you are arguing that sorcs/sages have great group utility. Where is this utility? Are you refering to bubbles? An ability a full madness sorc can't afford to spam on team mates and very few lightning sorcs stop in their channeling to cast? Is it pull? An ability that IMO even is under-utilized in the one gamemode where it actually can play a key role, Huttball.

 

As icing on the cake you're adding that CC is good and this is your biggest flaw. Instead of asking for a non-reactive ability, such as a passive defensive damage reduction, you should ask for reactive abilities that can help you control the battlefield, abilties that will distinguish a good player. This is what CC is supposed to do but between a stun that isnt correlating with our ideal range and channeled whirlwind, which you won't be able to cast against an enemy with somewhat of a clue, there's not much CC in the madness tree. As lightning you have to sacrifice mobility for a root on KB and a mez bubble. I'm convinced that sorcs/sages had been ten times more viable if they had simply done a rollback to our arsenal of CC (and that does in this context not include stun bubbles)

Edited October 16, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Helig]

It would probably be better to have it as 50%+ for 2 seconds which was the number I was actually thinking of.

Providing 10% or so raw mitigation for the deionized debuff would be putting sages over the medium armor DR level (if DR is applied to the debuff then sorcs will just bubble on CD and have 100% uptime on it.)

The class is clearly supposed to be a squishy class that relies on kiting. Every MMO has a casting kitier class. There are some very very good sorc/sages out their that run circles around everything, but their are vastly more sorcs who think they are juggernuats and facetank everything.

 

More kiting tools not raw mitigation, classes should play differently, not all rDPS should paly exactly like snipers and not all melee should play exactly like mauraders

Bolded part is precisely what I'm talking about.

 

One thing bears mention, though. I can run around in circles around most things on a Commando better than I can do it on a Sorc. Do as much, or more damage, too, unless I'm full Sadness spec. Either I suck as a Sorc, or something is not right here.

[Xanas]

All that sages need is force wave to be inline with force leap

Force leap is 15 seconds force wave needs to be 17 seconds not 20 seconds.

And force slow needs to be reworked maybe attach it to force wave as an additional aoe slow.

 

Sage ecsacape tools are out of sync with melee and this need a to be addressed

 

They are not in sync because the developers are not morons. If you can push him at each charge then how the hell is he supposed to do any damage? You whant to keep him at a distance 100% of the time and nuke him from distance? If we are at range we can't damage you... Like close to at all. We have very limited ranged abilities.

 

The only thing that can do damage in 2 seconds is mash in Rage... Any other spec would be unable to do any real damage to you. The 5 seconds gap is so melee can actually damage you.

 

If at each leap you can push back with a root to it no warrior can do damage to you aside blowing stealth on Marauder.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Xanas

[Helig]

They are not in sync because the developers are not morons. If you can push him at each charge then how the hell is he supposed to do any damage? You whant to keep him at a distance 100% of the time and nuke him from distance? If we are at range we can't damage you... Like close to at all. We have very limited ranged abilities.

 

The only thing that can do damage in 2 seconds is mash in Rage... Any other spec would be unable to do any real damage to you. The 5 seconds gap is so melee can actually damage you.

 

If at each leap you can push back with a root to it no warrior can do damage to you aside blowing stealth on Marauder.

You're thinking 1v1 strictly. 1v1 is not the issue being discussed. It's focus fire. For a class that takes so much damage due to the lack of mitigation skills outside 20-sec absorb bubbles that pop in 1 good hit and the 3-minute channelled shield cooldown, it doesn't have enough tools to disrupt/evade focus fire.

 

Simply put, a class that is designed to be the squishy, slippery caster, it's just not slippery enough.

[Xanas]

You're thinking 1v1 strictly. 1v1 is not the issue being discussed. It's focus fire. For a class that takes so much damage due to the lack of mitigation skills outside 20-sec absorb bubbles that pop in 1 good hit and the 3-minute channelled shield cooldown, it doesn't have enough tools to disrupt/evade focus fire.

 

Simply put, a class that is designed to be the squishy, slippery caster, it's just not slippery enough.

 

I am not talking about 1vs1 alone. Its same **** from arenas. You can also end up in 1vs1 in arenas. You don't buff a class by making it "immune" to 1 class type. I remember how warriors were to frost mage back in WoW. Thing is there you could at least dispel (healer) roots and the DR was good enough to.

You think its right to make warriors unable to attack sorcs? Just lol... I mean we already have snipers that can do this... I don't need even more classes in WZ's that i can't even get to on my guardian (assuming they know how to play). You try to get to a sniper when you can't loss and he is on those catwalks in HB. Even if you get to them you know what follows? Yeah they throw you off and GL getting to them again.

 

I also don't whant even MORE CC in the game. What sorcs need is more burst when mobile. Give them more abilities that can be used "on the run" and they don't even need anything else.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Xanas

[Helig]

I am not talking about 1vs1 alone. Its same **** from arenas. You can also end up in 1vs1 in arenas. You don't buff a class by making it "immune" to 1 class type. I remember how warriors were to frost mage back in WoW. Thing is there you could at least dispel (healer) roots and the DR was good enough to.

You think its right to make warriors unable to attack sorcs? Just lol...

 

I also don't whant even MORE CC in the game. What sorcs need is more burst when mobile. Give them more abilities that can be used "on the run" and they don't even need anything else.

Nope, not really.

 

And I don't think that Sorcs need more skills to be used on the run. They do need more skills that enable them to reposition, and to counter skills that deny them the chance to reposition. Like I said, for a class designed to be the slippery caster, it's just not slippery enough. On my Gunnery Commando, I can take considerably more damage, *and* I feel a lot more mobile, too, thanks to HTL, better knockback, and cannon slap root that synergizes extremely well with those two defenses. Not mentioning Electronet, because it's reserved for offensive use in the Arena, but is otherwise a potent defense.

[Xanas]

Nope, not really.

 

And I don't think that Sorcs need more skills to be used on the run. They do need more skills that enable them to reposition, and to counter skills that deny them the chance to reposition. Like I said, for a class designed to be the slippery caster, it's just not slippery enough. On my Gunnery Commando, I can take considerably more damage, *and* I feel a lot more mobile, too, thanks to HTL, better knockback, and cannon slap root that synergizes extremely well with those two defenses. Not mentioning Electronet, because it's reserved for offensive use in the Arena, but is otherwise a potent defense.

 

Then give them a "hold the line" type of ability... BUT NO MORE CC. This game needs LESS CC and not MORE.

[Helig]

Then give them a "hold the line" type of ability... BUT NO MORE CC. This game needs LESS CC and not MORE.

On that, I agree.

 

Although I am entirely against merely copying mechanics. Some overlaps are inevitable, but I really don't think that class-defining mechanics should be just cloned.

[MusicRider]

They are not in sync because the developers are not morons. If you can push him at each charge then how the hell is he supposed to do any damage? You whant to keep him at a distance 100% of the time and nuke him from distance? If we are at range we can't damage you... Like close to at all. We have very limited ranged abilities.

 

The only thing that can do damage in 2 seconds is mash in Rage... Any other spec would be unable to do any real damage to you. The 5 seconds gap is so melee can actually damage you.

 

If at each leap you can push back with a root to it no warrior can do damage to you aside blowing stealth on Marauder.

So basically you have never killed a commando or a sniper in your life. Cause their kb is 2-3 times the kb distance of a sage.

[MusicRider]

And to the original poster, sorry but this is a bad idea. Group stun bubble was fun killer. As much as it gives great utility again to sages/sorcs this is not the way to resolve some of the issues of the class.

[sanchito]

Then give them a "hold the line" type of ability... BUT NO MORE CC. This game needs LESS CC and not MORE.

 

they could give the force speed root and slow immunity that healer sorcs get to all sorcs. It's different to hold the line but also extremely useful.