EmperorLupey Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 So Doing some digging I noticed a trend going around. People are spitting on the release of SWTOR. I wanted to know why. That list was pretty short. Biggest complaint LAG. This is a huge deal to gamer's, and for good reason. I dont spend 80 dollars a month on internet to get into a game that requires at least 900 Dollars on hardware in my computer to rubber-band for 6 hours. EA got new servers. Lack of End Game content. Still an issue but not nearly to the point it was before, and not really something that any other game does not suffer from. Broken PVP. The reviews from this mostly seemed to be about lag issues over total imbalance. I do understand taht imbalance is still there, but speaking with a few hardcore pvp people the consensus on this is that although the classes are imbalanced it does not make it where anyone can not kill anyone else if they are out played. Seeing these things compared to many other launched MMO titles I find that this game was actually decent when it launched. Short, but Decent. I do feel that a major contributing factor to the downfall of both this game and Rift when they launched was in part due to the renewed success of WOW: Cataclysm, and the Explosion on the scene of LOL and the impact it made on Esports. This is all opinionated, and I can be totally in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorill Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Umm... LoTRO claimed the "Second most subscribed to MMORPG" years ago. Has this changed? Their F2P model is also quite a bit better than TOR's. I also see a LOT more people in LoTRO than I ever do in TOR, including on the fleet. Rift also has a booming subscription rate. Last I heard TOR was in the top 5, but certainly NOT #2. I play lotro as well and that isnt true AT ALL. There are a lot more people in this game then lotro. I almost am never in more than 1 phase in a major city in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Try again. LoTRO has more paying subs. EVE Online is the second biggest and growing at a fast rate. FFXIV is now growing by leaps and bounds. So is TSW, and TOR is losing players left and right. I like how you're so sure that all these games are growing fast and that TOR is losing players. Care to back up that claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexinator Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) I play lotro as well and that isnt true AT ALL. There are a lot more people in this game then lotro. I almost am never in more than 1 phase in a major city in that game. Odd. I'm on Brandywine and CAN'T grind out some deeds because there are 30+ players running around me and beating me to it. Care to tell me what server you play on so that I can roll on it? I would really to be able to grind my TP without competition. Try again. LoTRO has more paying subs. EVE Online is the second biggest and growing at a fast rate. FFXIV is now growing by leaps and bounds. So is TSW, and TOR is losing players left and right. I can't believe I forgot about EVE.... That game brings back both fond memories and lots of rage. http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-us.php As you can see, LoTRO regularly has over 300K people on. I doubt that TOR does. Edited October 15, 2013 by TheLexinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soppp Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 TOR doesn't need redone lol. It has it's issues with optimization because of this terrible engine, but it's a good game overall. It only goes as far as the dedication of the development team to push out solid content. Oh and money, that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmperorLupey Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Umm... LoTRO claimed the "Second most subscribed to MMORPG" years ago. Has this changed? Their F2P model is also quite a bit better than TOR's. I also see a LOT more people in LoTRO than I ever do in TOR, including on the fleet. Rift also has a booming subscription rate. Last I heard TOR was in the top 5, but certainly NOT #2. Incorrect sir. Citation below http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Incorrect sir. Citation below http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png no 2013 data and missing key games, cute post. The entire discussion is bait regardless, but your links don't support your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindariel Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ..Why can't Bioware? S.E. completely redid their MMO after a while of it being out. I wonder why can't SWTOR can't have it done too. I mean it's not like they don't have the money.... You know, they had to shutdown the whole game for 1 year to do that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexinator Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Incorrect sir. Citation below http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png According to those charts, TOR still has over a million subscribers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daknel Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 You know, they had to shutdown the whole game for 1 year to do that?! I wouldn't mind, if the finish product was great. I'd be willing to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 EA would never be willing to take that much of a hit. However the only thing that needs changing about SWTOR is the friggin engine. Lag, abiilty delay, glitching, phasing, everything would be fixed if they had a decent engine instead of this crappy HERO POS. it goes beyond that. the leveling needs changed. the various stories are great but you're going down the same path on each side 4 times and 95% of what you're doing is the same exact side-questing to grind out the levels for the next story mission. biggest thing SWTOR needs "changed" is multiple leveling paths..there have been many great suggestions with easy ways to do this without even having to change anything already there (like random mission terminal dailies on each planet..just to name ONE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ..Why can't Bioware? S.E. completely redid their MMO after a while of it being out. I wonder why can't SWTOR can't have it done too. I mean it's not like they don't have the money.... They did a great job, thats why just after 2 weeks playing FFXIV i went back to SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) ..Why can't Bioware? S.E. completely redid their MMO after a while of it being out. I wonder why can't SWTOR can't have it done too. I mean it's not like they don't have the money.... The answer is simple. Because the game is good enough commercially to not warrant pulling the plug and redoing it. It's headed for it's second year anniversary and is profitable, expanding, and is north of 500K paid subs per month. People can complain about the game to the end of time if they like.. but the fact is.. it's good enough for both players and the company that taking it off-line for a year is simply not justified. If you don't like game.. that's fine.. plenty of other people do. Seek what you like and enjoy it IMO. A better question would be.. why should they? The answer is ------> there is no reason why they should. Edited October 15, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshenK Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The answer is simple. Because the game is good enough commercially to not warrant pulling the plug and redoing it. It's headed for it's second year anniversary and is profitable, expanding, and is north of 500K paid subs per month. People can complain about the game to the end of time if they like.. but the fact is.. it's good enough for both players and the company that taking it off-line for a year is simply not justified. If you don't like game.. that's fine.. plenty of other people do. Seek what you like and enjoy it IMO. A better question would be.. why should they? The answer is ------> there is no reason why they should. That's not true however. Really I'd like to see proof of this whole 500k subs a month thing. I don't see anything that shows it's true, rather I see player after player leaving due to how the gameplay and engine are. And I see more and more people screaming for a return to the sandbox goodness of SWG. I bet if BioWare or Disney came out tomorrow and said TOR is getting shut down and it will relaunch as a Pre-CU game or a SWG 2 with a Pre-CU like system is talked about the MMO Community would lose it. I already know I have 250k friends from SWG who would be all for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) That's not true however. Really I'd like to see proof of this whole 500k subs a month thing. . How recent does it have to be for you to not claim the data is out of date? Serious question, because EA's only been telling us the numbers about every 2 fiscal quarters(IIRC) and I'm not going to bother finding the info if you won't treat it as relevant. I already know I have 250k friends from SWG who would be all for that. This is a ridiculous claim. You think that everyone who was playing SWG at is peak would come back and sub? It was bleeding subs before NGE and CU. Edited October 15, 2013 by Vandicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) That's not true however. Really I'd like to see proof of this whole 500k subs a month thing. I don't see anything that shows it's true, rather I see player after player leaving due to how the gameplay and engine are.Be careful what you ask for ...Monthly average revenue for Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare's massively multiplayer online role-playing game, has more than doubled and subscriptions have increased since adopting the free-to-play model last year, Electronic Arts president of labels Frank Gibeau revealed in an earning's call today. EA announced that the MMO would adopt a free-to-play model last July, and the transition took place in November 2012. Since then, Gibeau said the game has grown significantly. "Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million." "The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service and for players every six weeks or so."http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/7/4309866/star-wars-the-old-republic-revenue-doubled-free-to-play Probably closer to "or so" but ... 2.0 (4/9/2013) - Planet: Makeb - Operation: Scum & Villany - HM FPs: Athiss, Cademimu, Hammer Station, Mandalorian Raiders 2.2 (6/12/2013) - Operation: TFB NM 2.3 (8/6/2013) - 55 FPs: Czerka Corporate Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown - Event: Bounty Contract Week 2.4 (10/1/2013) - Operations: Dread Fortress, Dread Palace - Mission Area: Oricon Game. Set. Match. I bet if BioWare or Disney came out tomorrow and said TOR is getting shut down and it will relaunch as a Pre-CU game or a SWG 2 with a Pre-CU like system is talked about the MMO Community would lose it. I already know I have 250k friends from SWG who would be all for that.I don't think Ghandi had 250k friends. Edited October 15, 2013 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 i bet if bioware or disney came out tomorrow and said tor is getting shut down and it will relaunch as a pre-cu game or a swg 2 with a pre-cu like system is talked about the mmo community would lose it. I already know i have 250k friends from swg who would be all for that. lulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickabrack Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Or they could take the same amount of money needed to redo it, and just make one awesome expansion. The expansion idea makes more sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) I would be up for a reboot, but tbh, it could be done with an expansion on ToR's case. They really need to either fix the engine or adopt the last release of the hero engine and adapt the rest of the code to fit it. Dont think thats gonna happen cause Bioware wants to have their own tools. The best solution imo? Reboot the game with the frostbite engine and adapt that one as you see fit. Its indeed a difficult situation. The ideal solution would be to fix the engine we got in the game now. For some reason it doesnt seem to happen though. Bioware is a game developer afterall not an engine developer. This whole situation is awkward, wich is why it woul dbe best to adapt EA's own engine to a rebooted game. That way EA the parent company has the resources to edit the engine as they see fit and the engineers will be knowledgeble about it. You know what? Just make an expansion/sequal in a new engine. Have our character transfered over and port the main systems. The current game can still exist has episode 1 and the next game/expansion would be episode 2. Edited October 16, 2013 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Just to be fair....SWG was NOT bleeding subs before the CU/NGE....and it is easy for anyone to confirm that by looking at the charts. It did not have a huge amount of players by WoW standards and the studio, using improperly datamined information decided that they had the ability to absorb losses by converting over to a more mainstream build. In other words, they wanted WoW numbers...so SOE pushed the issue against the wishes of even devs. It turns out that what players were trying to tell SOE was true...the vast majority of players had multiple accounts, and the real player levels were closer to 100 to 150k. The resulting change caused the largest loss of players in the shortest amount of time as a percentage of the game population in game history at the time, not including actual shutdowns. The populace was essentially stable...but was not 250k unique players either. Edited October 16, 2013 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I would be up for a reboot, but tbh, it could be done with an expansion on ToR's case. They really need to either fix the engine or adopt the last release of the hero engine and adapt the rest of the code to fit it. Dont think thats gonna happen cause Bioware wants to have their own tools. The best solution imo? Reboot the game with the frostbite engine and adapt that one as you see fit. Its indeed a difficult situation. The ideal solution would be to fix the engine we got in the game now. For some reason it doesnt seem to happen though. Bioware is a game developer afterall not an engine developer. This whole situation is awkward, wich is why it woul dbe best to adapt EA's own engine to a rebooted game. That way EA the parent company has the resources to edit the engine as they see fit and the engineers will be knowledgeble about it. You know what? Just make an expansion/sequal in a new engine. Have our character transfered over and port the main systems. The current game can still exist has episode 1 and the next game/expansion would be episode 2. According to most armchair warriors on this forum that is impossible. I however support this idea 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Or they could take the same amount of money needed to redo it, and just make one awesome expansion. The expansion idea makes more sense to me.An expansion with the depth and scope of a fresh engine rebuild ... interesting. What would you realistically expect content-wise? How soon would you realistically expect it to be ready? And how much do think EAware would have to charge to break even on the development? Edited October 16, 2013 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmjarec Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) well tell you what.. give EA/BW about 500 million in cash.. and they might do it. it costs to much to redo. and EA and BW dont have the money or investors to turn it around. your stuck on 32-bit hero-alpha engine for the entire lifespan... sorry. So your saying that the biggest publisher on the planet doesnt habe the funds to rewrite when a company with a proportionately smaller revenue stream can ? And where did you get 500 million? Just pulling it out of thexair? And is there really a price you can put on extending the life of the biotanic? To me its worth any price to upgrade my favorite IP And theres no reason it cant be done. Sure its a lot of work but still possible. I hope you are still around in one to two years to remember me telling you that with this engine it wont be anything but nostalgia by then. Sure it might still be active but no longer a competitive title Edited October 16, 2013 by mmjarec Djd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanatosxrs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Cause EA/Bio were stupid enough to manage to blow $300 million on an average game with no money left over for a redesign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmjarec Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Cause EA/Bio were stupid enough to manage to blow $300 million on an average game with no money left over for a redesign First off it wasnt 300 million and secondly they had to allocate their initial startup fees from somewhere why couldnt they do it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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