Galactic Starfighters... with a cockpit view?

[CrazyOldMystic]

Modern is exactly the problem. In recent years devs have blatantly thrown immersion out the window as much as they can, removed content from games, and gone with the quick theme park style. The players who are looking for cockpit view, full control, and joystick are old gamers. Players who understand the importance of immersion in games, who do not understand why you would remove content, and further more believe strongly in making a games world correctly. So accusing a bunch of posters of being modern well that is one hell of an assumption.

 

On the point of pvp you have no clue what you are talking about. This view that is being asked for is about immersion not pvp. Its about the devs being able to say to the star wars fans out there we have a space aspect now, and it will make you feel like you are in the star wars universe. Comparing ground pvp to space pvp is just bad. In swg I ran cockpit view 24/7, to be honest allot of pilots did not, for two reasons. The first reason immersion, and secondly to get a feel for space. By feel I mean the sound of blaster fire hitting my armor, meaning my shields were down, the sound of a missile impacting my ship. Using the hud to pin point enemies around my craft, and to find out which one was shooting at me. Does that sound at all like ground pvp to you?

 

Lastly no one here is a developer which means we will not know what the final products is going to be like, maybe they will add these two things, maybe they wont. Is it such a crime to state ones opinion? Thats right anyone who does not belong to the fan club off with their head, and anyone who does not shred swtor for the heck of it off with their head. Anyone that states an opinion well they are just complaining right? (( think sarcastic for the last part))

[RaiderMid]

My guess is it's a no on cockpit view. Not really sure how it would work as this is going to be pvp. I would want full sight not a boxed in view.

[Lovethebeard]

This thread looks to be a perfect example of how modern gamers spin their own hype to uncontrollable levels.

 

Bioware announced that they were adding a free-flight PvP mini-game. That's all.

 

It took minutes for people to start comparing it to X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, a full-on space flight sim. If any of you out there are hoping that Starfighter mode will be like XWvTF, then you've set yourself up for disappointment and your inevitable dissatisfaction should be blamed on no one but yourself.

 

This is an MMO. It's space-PvP minigame is not a flight sim. If you think that Bioware took a small team and cranked out a AAA flight sim using an MMO engine, then you're about as knowledgeable as that guy who thought that a couple interns could switch game engines in a week.

 

Sorry to be harsh here, but it's better to get this all done and over with before the hype reaches unmanageable levels. This is a space mini game. Best guesses and logical thought say that its going to use a similar interface to the existing space game, just without being locked in an invisible hallway. The footage shows ships moving freely in all three axes. The press release mentions as many as three types of ships. Assume that is what you'll be getting. No throttle. No initial simulation. No multiple-pilots. No pilot/gunner combo. No cockpit view. No tweaking engine stats or balancing shield/weapon output. No special support for gamepads or flight sticks.

 

Maybe we'll get more than that. Maybe. But since they haven't said they're doing anything more than that, you'd be silly to interpret their statements as a promise to give you any of it. People are already commenting about how they'll quit if some petty feature isn't implemented. Fine. Quit, because obviously you were just looking for an excuse. Instead of conjuring up your personal fantasy and demanding it be satisfied, look at what is actually being offered and then decide whether you like it or not. Want to suggest more features? Sure. Go ahead. Want to demand that they exist before release or get added while Bioware is already past primary development? Well, you're too late. Sorry. It'll be better for everyone if we try to live in reality for just a bit. Keep your demands/hype/expectations in check and work with what we know is true.

 

To be more explicitly on-topic: I have no position on cockpit view. My only statement would be this: If it exists, it should display no more information than you'd get if you were not in cockpit view. And that actually means that you'd get less information, as the third-person view would give you a better view of the area. Sorry cockpit fans. Realism is more challenging.

 

lol he calls it a mini game and it isnt even release yet. lololololol

[Zaxem]

i personally don't like cockpit view unless it's better and easier to play with but i see why ppl want it i just hope if they do add this they don't make it so it feels like i'm almost forced to use cockpit view because some games i have played it felt like it was nearly impossible to play 3rd person view

[ellrochell]

OMGZ IM SO EXITED I GET MY OWNNNNNNNNNNN COLOUR ON MYSHIP #BESTUPDATEEVER #4EVAWAITIN #TOOCOOLFORGROUNDPVP :rak_03::rak_04::(:o:mad::);)

[ShiningKnights]

Why not have both? Make it a toggle option.

[Nempo]

Modern is exactly the problem. In recent years devs have blatantly thrown immersion out the window as much as they can, removed content from games, and gone with the quick theme park style. The players who are looking for cockpit view, full control, and joystick are old gamers. Players who understand the importance of immersion in games, who do not understand why you would remove content, and further more believe strongly in making a games world correctly. So accusing a bunch of posters of being modern well that is one hell of an assumption.

 

On the point of pvp you have no clue what you are talking about. This view that is being asked for is about immersion not pvp. Its about the devs being able to say to the star wars fans out there we have a space aspect now, and it will make you feel like you are in the star wars universe. Comparing ground pvp to space pvp is just bad. In swg I ran cockpit view 24/7, to be honest allot of pilots did not, for two reasons. The first reason immersion, and secondly to get a feel for space. By feel I mean the sound of blaster fire hitting my armor, meaning my shields were down, the sound of a missile impacting my ship. Using the hud to pin point enemies around my craft, and to find out which one was shooting at me. Does that sound at all like ground pvp to you?

 

Lastly no one here is a developer which means we will not know what the final products is going to be like, maybe they will add these two things, maybe they wont. Is it such a crime to state ones opinion? Thats right anyone who does not belong to the fan club off with their head, and anyone who does not shred swtor for the heck of it off with their head. Anyone that states an opinion well they are just complaining right? (( think sarcastic for the last part))

 

For those crying out for immersion...I have several things to say.

 

-You would not hear your weapons fire, nore hear the weapons fire of your allies...space does not have an atmosphere in which to create the sound. In order for your laser weapons to fire into space means the ports to actually fire would channel any noise out the barrel...not to mention there being no atmosphere surrounding the laser at all (fighters only put an atmosphere in the cockpit, of which the weapons are not a part of).

 

-You would not hear the lasers impacting your ship, for the vibrations to be strong enough for you to honestly notice a sound would require the laser to hit a part of your ship in which atmosphere is directly on the other side of the armor...meaning it hit your pilot pod which in starwars means you just died.

 

-firing a bomb or missile would slow you down for a few seconds as the thrusters launching the object away from you would actually push you in the oposite direction. welcome to physics in space!

 

Cockpit locations for the tie...anything...is horribly placed and would guarentee your flanks are giant blindspots. Seriously, TIE fighters would get ripped apart from flanking manuevers or simple dogfighting 101, the inverted death spiral used in dogfighting everywhere and named in WW2...as you have to be able to look directly across the spiral to see your enemy, which the TIE fighter cannot thanks to those huge blockages. Most games place the cockpit view in a false location, showing you sitting more forward than you really do if you ever look at the official blueprints for the various versions of TIE fighters.

 

So...when you speak of immersion...do realize you are talkign about not hearing any laser fire, any bomb fire, only able to hear you are hit thanks to somethign beeping at you when you get hit, the sounds of your controls and buttons clicking away...and the voices of your flight squadron. It is a very QUIET world you would immerse yourself with, and a great one if it would be done that way in all honesty. Also...remember that explosions in space...have flame for all of a second or two. So a great many of the explosions and wreckage we see int he current space missions are already wrong. Immersion...true immersion =/= the movie world...it is about making it more realistic to truly envelope and trick yourself.

 

I'd love it if it was true form immersion myself...I would lose myself in it.

I'll take the splashy over the top movie version we have now too as it is pure eye candy.

Either way, I expect the dogfighting will be fun and fast paced.

[DasOpossum]

I also support the option of Cockpit View.

 

But even if it is not implemented in the first version of Galactic Starfighter ... I believe that this addon is just the beginning of many more addons and content based on space fights.

 

There could be not only cockpit view, but also:

- Guild Space Ship with hangars to start your missions from

- Story quest arc especially for pilots

- PVE bossfights in space

- Space Operations PVE

- new vendors, Cartel packs etc especially for pilots and ship upgrades

- Space sector areas, where you can fly free and open and do space quests within.

- Space Sector bosses (like world Bosses)

- New Ships, especially for smugglers and bounty hunters (not Imp and Rep style)

- and many many more

[Blu_Haze]

For those crying out for immersion...I have several things to say.

 

-You would not hear your weapons fire, nore hear the weapons fire of your allies...space does not have an atmosphere in which to create the sound. In order for your laser weapons to fire into space means the ports to actually fire would channel any noise out the barrel...not to mention there being no atmosphere surrounding the laser at all (fighters only put an atmosphere in the cockpit, of which the weapons are not a part of).

 

-You would not hear the lasers impacting your ship, for the vibrations to be strong enough for you to honestly notice a sound would require the laser to hit a part of your ship in which atmosphere is directly on the other side of the armor...meaning it hit your pilot pod which in starwars means you just died.

 

-firing a bomb or missile would slow you down for a few seconds as the thrusters launching the object away from you would actually push you in the oposite direction. welcome to physics in space!

 

Cockpit locations for the tie...anything...is horribly placed and would guarentee your flanks are giant blindspots. Seriously, TIE fighters would get ripped apart from flanking manuevers or simple dogfighting 101, the inverted death spiral used in dogfighting everywhere and named in WW2...as you have to be able to look directly across the spiral to see your enemy, which the TIE fighter cannot thanks to those huge blockages. Most games place the cockpit view in a false location, showing you sitting more forward than you really do if you ever look at the official blueprints for the various versions of TIE fighters.

 

So...when you speak of immersion...do realize you are talkign about not hearing any laser fire, any bomb fire, only able to hear you are hit thanks to somethign beeping at you when you get hit, the sounds of your controls and buttons clicking away...and the voices of your flight squadron. It is a very QUIET world you would immerse yourself with, and a great one if it would be done that way in all honesty. Also...remember that explosions in space...have flame for all of a second or two. So a great many of the explosions and wreckage we see int he current space missions are already wrong. Immersion...true immersion =/= the movie world...it is about making it more realistic to truly envelope and trick yourself.

 

I'd love it if it was true form immersion myself...I would lose myself in it.

I'll take the splashy over the top movie version we have now too as it is pure eye candy.

Either way, I expect the dogfighting will be fun and fast paced.

 

Such a shame to write so many paragraphs based on a faulty assumption.

 

Immersion is not the same as realistic.

 

You can be completely immersed in a fantasy world even if that world isn't at all based on our reality. Everything that you just said is irrelevant, because no one was asking for the game to be realistic. When people say they seek immersion it merely means they want to feel as though they're a part of the Star Wars universe. In the Star Wars universe people can move massive objects with their mind, and things blow up in space.

[Gindur]

Cockpit view and joystick support! Please!

 

And this song too!

[aeterno]

Control scheme isn't exactly a mystery, you can find a datamined picture with it.

[easeyway]

****pit. Edited October 11, 2013 by easeyway

[spectreclees]

I'd buy a gaming joystick for this if it supported it. The games I currently play support it. But I don't play them enough to warrant one. If I got this game to support it for something, I'd most likely pick one up to enjoy the perks of it.

[HiddenPalm]

This thread had some seriously compelling arguments as to why it is silly to hope for joystick support and cockpit view and how its just a mini game. I still didn't buy it though. Of course GS will have all that and then some. To say that they cant make GS better than what folks in this thread call "full blown space simulators" from the early mid 90's is a bit insulting to the creators of SWTOR. Give SWTOR devs some credit, they have been delivering, slowly but steadily.

 

They got this.

 

There will probably not only be joystick support, but also gamepad support, people are already playing SWTOR with gamepads. Based on early images of GS there is throttle, yaw, roll and radar. It's joystick ready.

 

Check out this link for early images of GS where you can see the UI.

 

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2013/09/secret-space-project-preview-1.html

 

And cockpits are a given. Come on. Third person open space flying is for softees, the devs know that. Stop calling it another minigame. Pazaak would be a minigame, though not yet implemented, not being a starfighter in the greatest Star Wars game ever made.

 

Guild ships with gunners, leveling, pimping out your ship, etc, all that is coming. It may not all be there by February, but it will be there. We will one day even be able to play SWTOR on our phones. Patience.

[ShiningKnights]

Please explain how it will be a collosal failure when we aren't even there yet? I believe you meant to say you "think" it will be a colossal failure because it probably doesn't have a control scheme closer to sim games.

 

Since MMOs have to appeal to a wide audience the first control scheme available will most likely be a basic setup that everyone uses. They have to build for a common denominator.

 

...just like how I "thought" back in 2011 that this game would go F2P within a year and people like yourself were ridiculing me. It's not hard to predict things. You need to think about why a certain game/segment would do well/not do well once you do an analysis on a game's strengths and weakness (I'm a marketing research analyst IRL, so I know a thing or 2 about this). Also, you obviously never played Star Wars Tie Fighter because that wasn't just any flight simulator, it was an immersive Star Wars experience, which is what made people want to try SWTOR in the first place. You may have a point if you say that people don't like complicated controls...that would have to be vetted further, but don't just blindly trust a PR person.

 

Bottom line: You can't trust Bioware and take them at their word to make the right decisions. If that happened, we wouldn't have had the 2.1 travesty, Hero Engine ability delay, and subscriber to F2P that they're experiencing today.

[Xakthul]

I read the SWTOR strategy thing.... and we're getting space crew companions?!

 

AWESOME!

[Spartanik]

and subscriber to F2P that they're experiencing today.

Not that is a bad thing per-sé judging how the game is now, and what was before.

Anyway subscription model, is a thing of the past this days imo.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Spartanik

[CrazyOldMystic]

I suppose we will see what happens with this update thankfully it does not seem like they are rushing it. As for subs being a thing of the past. If most players had a brain they would not be a thing of the past. As a player I look at what I can get for the most. If the sub gives me mostly everything then I go sub, if a f2p gives everything, and the sub offers nothing then I go f2p.

 

Also on that subject nothing is ever f2p it is the worse joke in gaming right now. They always hold back something with a f2p modal that greatly increases immersion, ability to survive, or ability to kill npcs/players in game. Whatever they hold back they charge more RL money for it then a 15 dollar a month sub.

[Cessna_X]

Such a shame to write so many paragraphs based on a faulty assumption.

 

Immersion is not the same as realistic.

 

You can be completely immersed in a fantasy world even if that world isn't at all based on our reality. Everything that you just said is irrelevant, because no one was asking for the game to be realistic. When people say they seek immersion it merely means they want to feel as though they're a part of the Star Wars universe. In the Star Wars universe people can move massive objects with their mind, and things blow up in space.

 

If you choose to take that definition, then the argument that a cockpit view increases immersion goes out the window. According to you, immersion cannot be correlated with realism. Therefore, while it may be true that a cockpit view is more realistic, we can say nothing about its immersion factor based on that information. Because you could be totally immersed in an unrealistic universe where you fly starfighters from a 3rd person perspective.

 

By your definitions of immersion and realism, that is.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Cessna_X

[CrazyOldMystic]

If you choose to take that definition, then the argument that a cockpit view increases immersion goes out the window. According to you, immersion cannot be correlated with realism. Therefore, while it may be true that a cockpit view is more realistic, we can say nothing about its immersion factor based on that information. Because you could be totally immersed in an unrealistic universe where you fly starfighters from a 3rd person perspective.

 

By your definitions of immersion and realism, that is.

 

What was that pesky scene oh yes the pilot flying his ship from inside the cockpit in star wars a new hope, star wars the empire strikes back, star wars the return of the jedi, star wars the phantom menace, star wars the clone wars, and star wars the revenge of the sith. If cockpit view is not important which is what your implying then why did they bother to have that view so often in the star wars movies?

 

The cold hard truth is this cockpit view with joystick control would greatly improve the space experience, and more importantly it would be accepted by all. This last part can not be overstated in importance, if it is accepted, then they have a solid platform from which to build. Cutting those two things out would destroy that. What amazes me, and I am sure someone will turn around and troll this statement, is how many posters here are fighting against this. Something that could only improve this update, being torn down, and for what more of the same old same old in the game? Again the same old same old aint going to cut it anymore. Allot of people will be watching this update, not just current players, but x swtor players too.

[AlexDougherty]

Both the cockpit (First person) view and the third-person view have limitations, and I'm fine with either. Just hope they have a decent speed control, since I like to vary speed in fights, it makes you slightly harder to hit, until everybody starts doing it and everybody adapts.

[Hyfy]

Ok you really need to do a better job of reading regardless of your bum leg. For subs it launches Dec 3, Preferred Jan 14 and F2P Feb 4. Don't QQ unless you are 100% sure you're right

 

Source

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20131008

http://dulfy.net/2013/10/08/swtor-bioware-reveals-galactic-starfighter-second-digital-expansion/

 

How dare you expect someone to actually read first? For someone who is ************ a lot he really does seem to have a lot so far confused.

[D-VINE]

YAWN...I am not impressed so far...3rd Person view only and/or no Cockpit view...an absolut NO-GO.

JTL degrees of freedom, economy, hardware support (Joysticks, force Feedback, TrackIR, etc.) was absolute outstanding.

That set my personal benchmark for a space sim or in this case a space expansion.

If Galactic Starfighters goes in that direction, ok cool...if not, I will definately unsub and Play-For-Free until...STAR CITIZEN

[LordArtemis]

I certainly hope they consider adding a cockpit view and joystick ability in the near future...and I mean NEAR future. I feel it is pretty important...especially the joystick ability.

[LadyKulvax]

I certainly hope they consider adding a cockpit view and joystick ability in the near future...and I mean NEAR future. I feel it is pretty important...especially the joystick ability.

 

Same here, I feel like those two things would make people think twice about calling this merely a mini-game.