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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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To be fair (unless there is something I'm missing) too much DPS in the first phase can make that fight much harder to tank since tanks having both debuffs due to pushing too fast can cause some issues. Unless there is some mechanic the people I run with have missed we've been forced to slow down our DPS for first phase because tentacles pushed too quickly was brutalizing the tanks.

 

We had the same problem, but we generally just solved it by warning the healers that I would be taking extra damage for about ten seconds. As long as you don't have both tentacles and both debuffs, it's fine. I was raid leading at the time, and I didn't feel like telling the DPS to slow down, especially since the healers were joking about there not being enough damage in the first phase.

 

In fairness, haksilence's 2300 parse on Brontes was in my group, and he wasn't derping on mechanics or standing in things to pad his DPS. I'll grant that I thought it a bit odd when I saw him basic attacking the lightning rods, but I didn't think much of it since he was still getting out of them reliably. Overall, it was a fair parse. (also, it's worth mentioning that the DPS group he was in was extremely good, and so it's not like he was leeching numbers off of other people)

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namesaretough

namesaretough

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what... do you stop and stand there starign at your tentacle?

 

Yes. In 16m if your group's damage is good, you will push if most of your dps don't just stand there doing nothing for a bit. We actually stop on the hands entirely until after the fingers are dead. That's a bit more cautious than you need to be, but there's no enrage to worry about, so why not?

 

We had the same problem, but we generally just solved it by warning the healers that I would be taking extra damage for about ten seconds. As long as you don't have both tentacles and both debuffs, it's fine.
On the PTS, in 16m having a tentacle and the debuff meant you were dead. I don't know if it got adjusted before it went live, but there was no healing through it. Even if you can, why bother? It's just a mechanic you're dealing with because your dps won't stop touching their keyboards for 4-5 GCDs.

 

Either way, his damage is irrelevant. Calling someone bad because their raid group uses a different strategy that leads to lower individual numbers is uncalled for, ESPECIALLY since it's totally irrelevant. The log was posted to look at a single dummy parse, not break down someone's raid performance.

Edited by namesaretough
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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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On the PTS, in 16m having a tentacle and the debuff meant you were dead. I don't know if it got adjusted before it went live, but there was no healing through it. Even if you can, why bother? It's just a mechanic you're dealing with because your dps won't stop touching their keyboards for 5 seconds.

 

Given the damage that it does in 8 man, it doesn't surprise me that it's a kill shot in 16 man. Basically, the tentacle slams me for a little over 16k when I have the debuff and no CDs. It doesn't really slam often enough that the damage is an issue, since the healers are easily able to prop up both tanks for the next slam. Given the enormous jump in HP with 78 gear, as long as they have me near 100% after the fixate, I can pretty much survive for 7-10 seconds of the debuff as long as my healers are awake.

 

It's not really a mechanic that I care about. I mean, we could stop DPS, that wouldn't be hard, but it's not hard to heal either. It's just one of those situations where I decided it was better to annoy the healers and tanks rather than annoy the DPS (and yes, I was tanking it). Neither annoyance was severe, but the DPS are already dealing with fingers and keeping things even, so my conclusion was that it was better to just take the mechanic off their plate entirely.

 

I would imagine slam + debuff in Nightmare Mode will be an auto-kill, but hopefully the hands will have enough HP that DPS will be pushed rather than forced to nap during that phase.

 

Either way, his damage is irrelevant. Calling someone bad because their raid group uses a different strategy that leads to lower individual numbers is uncalled for, ESPECIALLY since it's totally irrelevant. The log was posted to look at a single dummy parse, not break down someone's raid performance.

 

Agreed 100%

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Falver

Falver

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Btw. how come people react so aggresive, both you and OP. Did I hurt your family with my parse or what

 

If OP wants to continue this thread with illogical rules, let him be.

 

Cybertech grenades aren't allowed Shandellon.

 

Its not about obeying or disobeying rules. Its about logic. Grenades acts exactly same as adrenals, yet are treated differently. I just want to know why, casue i fail to see this

 

And reusable granades are inferior to the purchasable ones. Your point?

 

And I told you why, and save for one person in the thread, no one has actually backed you, if you've noticed. The effective use of an adrenal takes an understanding of your class but cybertech grenades can be used twice per parse by anyone with 20k in their pocket and a GCD they can waste. Kudos to you for having figured out a way to boost your DPS, and you can do it in a raid, but seeing how if cybertech grenades became a standard in this thread, people would start including it just to parse competitively, if arbitrarily seeing how it takes no skill to place an aoe on the ground, whereas effective use of adrenals takes skill. Why should you be rewarded for NOT playing your class?

 

You ask why I dislike you but all I told you was to parse without grenades, the same way I ask for people's AMR profiles when it slips their minds. The reason I don't like you is because of your personality, not anything else. Whether you follow the rules or not is up to you and I honestly don't care. If you don't follow them, I'll just silently note that you're not and won't include you in the board, the same way I've been excluding people with doctored parses, there's no point in making it public (especially what happened with a couple vanguards not too long ago). I'm really not an unaccommodating person, and people who've been tracking these two threads since they came out would agree with me. But, if you're going to condescend from the get-go and openly insult me, do you really think I would take you seriously?

 

I'm done with this petty argument and you can continue it if you like but don't expect my taking part it in it. Obey the rules if you like. READ the rules if you like. If you disagree, be like KBN, odawgg, and a few others who politely, and professionally supply arguments and concerns rather than act like a dickwad.

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Falver

Falver

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Updated.

Notable changes to the thread:

*Adjusted DPS has now been included. Reference http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=679360 for the numbers used in the scalar multiplications.

*Another class leader ranking has been made using the highest adjusted DPS of each top-5 board.

**Pizza and Marisi's parses have been recognized there.

*Every spec in the honorable mentions, excluding Focus, are now recognized on the leaderboard and have been taken down from honorable mentioned.

 

Things to note: I will exclude Mercenary Pyro parses for one-week. If Bioware can't decide what they will do with it until then, I will treat it the same way as double-serendipitous bugs and allow it until they (possibly) fix either one.

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Shandellon

Shandellon

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And I told you why, and save for one person in the thread, no one has actually backed you, if you've noticed. The effective use of an adrenal takes an understanding of your class but cybertech grenades can be used twice per parse by anyone with 20k in their pocket and a GCD they can waste. Kudos to you for having figured out a way to boost your DPS, and you can do it in a raid, but seeing how if cybertech grenades became a standard in this thread, people would start including it just to parse competitively, if arbitrarily seeing how it takes no skill to place an aoe on the ground, whereas effective use of adrenals takes skill. Why should you be rewarded for NOT playing your class?

 

You ask why I dislike you but all I told you was to parse without grenades, the same way I ask for people's AMR profiles when it slips their minds. The reason I don't like you is because of your personality, not anything else. Whether you follow the rules or not is up to you and I honestly don't care. If you don't follow them, I'll just silently note that you're not and won't include you in the board, the same way I've been excluding people with doctored parses, there's no point in making it public (especially what happened with a couple vanguards not too long ago). I'm really not an unaccommodating person, and people who've been tracking these two threads since they came out would agree with me. But, if you're going to condescend from the get-go and openly insult me, do you really think I would take you seriously?

 

I'm done with this petty argument and you can continue it if you like but don't expect my taking part it in it. Obey the rules if you like. READ the rules if you like. If you disagree, be like KBN, odawgg, and a few others who politely, and professionally supply arguments and concerns rather than act like a dickwad.

Woho, are we reading same posts? Because discussion so far was :

 

Me - posting parse

You - granades are not allowed

Me - ok, i didnt know, disregard that parse, but please explain why granades are not allowed

You - ****, its my thread, my rules

 

And you call me a dickwad, you say its me who's impolite? You even claim its me insulting you?

 

You do a very good job administrating this and previous threads, only few would have enough time and commitment to carry this, and you deserve a certain level of respect, but this doesn't give you the right to behave like this

 

---------

 

Thanks for explanation, both OP and smugglin. There is something in your words, but I wouldnt say its a fixed dps increase for each class. For slingers and commandos its a straight benefit, you just throw a granade instread of your basic attack. But for other classes its not that simple. Sentinels - do you sacrifice additional focus from Strike for extra damage? Sages - do you sacrifice proc chance to do this? Etc. So there is still some skill involved. So i still disagree on logic behind this, but let it be, I do respect it

 

Anyway, here is a legit, non-granade parse

Hope - Gunsliger - Full DF 5/5/36

3302.71 http://www.torparse.com/a/453627/time/1381438364/1381438669/0/Damage+Dealt

No gear changes

Edited by Shandellon
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KTap

KTap

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Posted
Updated.

Notable changes to the thread:

*Adjusted DPS has now been included. Reference http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=679360 for the numbers used in the scalar multiplications.

*Another class leader ranking has been made using the highest adjusted DPS of each top-5 board.

**Pizza and Marisi's parses have been recognized there.

*Every spec in the honorable mentions, excluding Focus, are now recognized on the leaderboard and have been taken down from honorable mentioned.

 

Things to note: I will exclude Mercenary Pyro parses for one-week. If Bioware can't decide what they will do with it until then, I will treat it the same way as double-serendipitous bugs and allow it until they (possibly) fix either one.

 

Looks good, appreciate the addition :cool:

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JDotter

JDotter

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Yes. In 16m if your group's damage is good, you will push if most of your dps don't just stand there doing nothing for a bit. We actually stop on the hands entirely until after the fingers are dead. That's a bit more cautious than you need to be, but there's no enrage to worry about, so why not?

 

On the PTS, in 16m having a tentacle and the debuff meant you were dead. I don't know if it got adjusted before it went live, but there was no healing through it. Even if you can, why bother? It's just a mechanic you're dealing with because your dps won't stop touching their keyboards for 4-5 GCDs.

 

Either way, his damage is irrelevant. Calling someone bad because their raid group uses a different strategy that leads to lower individual numbers is uncalled for, ESPECIALLY since it's totally irrelevant. The log was posted to look at a single dummy parse, not break down someone's raid performance.

 

Or you can just burn right tentacle first to 0% and avoid the intended mechanic in phase one.

 

 

I assume most groups will pick up on that soon and use that because split dps is silly and hard to predict. Two attunes = 38k hit in 8 btw

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MiralukaJedi

MiralukaJedi

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Or you can just burn right tentacle first to 0% and avoid the intended mechanic in phase one.

 

 

I assume most groups will pick up on that soon and use that because split dps is silly and hard to predict. Two attunes = 38k hit in 8 btw

 

Once either tentacle goes down 20% they cast attune. Yes, burning one down to 40% (it goes away then) makes it easier because then DPS can mostly burn the other (only one tank needs healing on final tentacle), but it doesn't fix the double attune issue (usually we still had double attune, but with 45% left, just burning the last 5% of a tentacle wasn't too big an issue).

 

The issue I saw was that if BOTH tanks had BOTH debuffs (thus burning too fast at the start) than that was two tanks taking a large amount of damage (needlessly btw regardless of if you CAN heal it) just so DPS can feel good about their numbers. I love TORparse and leaderboards, but I'm not going to hurt the raid just to feel good about myself. So judging someone (who btw put out a very nice dummy parse) and mocking their numbers on a fight that WILL be low due to a mechanic is a bit silly. You don't know how much damage he did during the clock phase and are solely looking at the overall, which doesn't reflect the high and low moments of the fight.

 

That'd be like laughing at people's Soa parses (or any fight with a down time). Or Nightmare Titan 6 where people have to be careful not to push him during a huge grenade.

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JDotter

JDotter

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Once either tentacle goes down 20% they cast attune. Yes, burning one down to 40% (it goes away then) makes it easier because then DPS can mostly burn the other (only one tank needs healing on final tentacle), but it doesn't fix the double attune issue (usually we still had double attune, but with 45% left, just burning the last 5% of a tentacle wasn't too big an issue).

 

The issue I saw was that if BOTH tanks had BOTH debuffs (thus burning too fast at the start) than that was two tanks taking a large amount of damage (needlessly btw regardless of if you CAN heal it) just so DPS can feel good about their numbers. I love TORparse and leaderboards, but I'm not going to hurt the raid just to feel good about myself. So judging someone (who btw put out a very nice dummy parse) and mocking their numbers on a fight that WILL be low due to a mechanic is a bit silly. You don't know how much damage he did during the clock phase and are solely looking at the overall, which doesn't reflect the high and low moments of the fight.

 

That'd be like laughing at people's Soa parses (or any fight with a down time). Or Nightmare Titan 6 where people have to be careful not to push him during a huge grenade.

 

That will wipe a raid only time with that strategy where the right one won't be up to hit is phase three and you';ll have fingers to hit.

 

I agree with the rest, we have some of the highest parsing/boss fights snipers/marauders at times I can tell they are playing solely for numbers and not to clear content.

 

On the flip side I'd take dps like that 8/10 times because this game rewards having the strongest dps by skipping phases, or making "difficult" phases easy. Our week one kill of brontes we got two kephess (3 balls) and this week we got one and 2 balls which makes it easier.

 

Where I draw the line is when a dps is using cooldowns on the wrong phases (AoE phases) to boost numbers rather than on a meaningful target.

Edited by JDotter
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MiralukaJedi

MiralukaJedi

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That will wipe a raid only time with that strategy where the right one won't be up to hit is phase three and you';ll have fingers to hit.

 

I agree with the rest, we have some of the highest parsing/boss fights snipers/marauders at times I can tell they are playing solely for numbers and not to clear content.

 

On the flip side I'd take dps like that 8/10 times because this game rewards having the strongest dps by skipping phases, or making "difficult" phases easy. Our week one kill of brontes we got two kephess (3 balls) and this week we got one and 2 balls which makes it easier.

 

Where I draw the line is when a dps is using cooldowns on the wrong phases (AoE phases) to boost numbers rather than on a meaningful target.

 

Not sure what you aren't agreeing with. Assumed you meant burning down a tentacle, but you said the exact same thing a page back. Maybe a misunderstanding? First phase the right/left hands go away at 40%. Burn them down so one goes away then burn other (our group did right hand first, when right hand went away, burned left)

 

Unless you meant the 45-40% thing which is not what we want it was more a "IF the last one burned too fast the tank could pop a cooldown to stay alive for that last 5%" IE: a last resort. As in "I wouldn't recommend burning too fast, but if you have to final 40-50% is probably safest.

 

I agree with having strong DPS, but it IS possible to have strong and smart. Slow down to not kill tanks, then burn during phases where there isn't a reason not to. Yeah, don't slow down during the phase where the boss is up to avoid Kephess and balls, but I'm not talking intentionally going slow for no reason.

Edited by MiralukaJedi
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haksilence

haksilence

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Yes. In 16m if your group's damage is good, you will push if most of your dps don't just stand there doing nothing for a bit. We actually stop on the hands entirely until after the fingers are dead. That's a bit more cautious than you need to be, but there's no enrage to worry about, so why not?

 

On the PTS, in 16m having a tentacle and the debuff meant you were dead. I don't know if it got adjusted before it went live, but there was no healing through it. Even if you can, why bother? It's just a mechanic you're dealing with because your dps won't stop touching their keyboards for 4-5 GCDs.

 

Either way, his damage is irrelevant. Calling someone bad because their raid group uses a different strategy that leads to lower individual numbers is uncalled for, ESPECIALLY since it's totally irrelevant. The log was posted to look at a single dummy parse, not break down someone's raid performance.

 

You misunderstand me entirely.

I.wasnt trying.to rag on anyone. I was just surprised because hope parses me by so much and whatnot. I'm not basing people, just taking.

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