Hahahahah

[Sathid]

well they are supposed to be the best and a pure melee dps class, but all this debate is about his defensive skills.

i can say is hard to kill a scoundrel healer as combat but not impossible, but takes times due how they heal, ofc as a focus i will have great survival and efficient burst to kill the scoundrel on the amount of time required.

but since your sentinel is lv 38 you already have the talent which improve rebuke, may i suggest to play with and without that skill and watch the differences?

 

Sure il give it a shot.

[Mikeieveli]

I cant comment too much on Sent's and damage but what i do see as a scoundrel healer is that sents seem to survive very well and a well geared Mar eats through me like butter and seems to have a sticking point where no damage exists.

 

My sent is only 38 and until i play a class i do not like to comment too much.

 

See balance is when every class has counter classes. Which is why its easier to balance a game around 8v8 then it is around 4v4 btw. But im not going into that. Carnage/combat, are supposed be the counter to healers (see healing debuff). Lets not forget there are class you simply laugh at when they try to damage you, you probably dont even bother kiting them sometimes. Maybe Shien knight/war. Because you have a counter class that means there is balance. You shouldnt be calling for nerf just because you can be countered by a certain class.

[Mikeieveli]

well focus is without doubt a pvp spec that is why hist with that numbers , players don't have 320k hp or more

So watchman and combat atm are both viable for pve, 1 is sustained damage with good damage but over time, and combat is faster burst, faster results

 

Careful what can you decide to open, I could apply the same attitude to anything. When commandos werent viable for any spec in ranked i could have said, "Well commandos is without a doubt a PvE class so they dont need to be buffed at all for PvP, hence their numbers." Thats not balance. The goal, ideally is to have every spec in every class be viable for PvP and PvE, in reality usually only 2 of 3 specs end up being viable in either PvE or PvP.

 

I brought up smash being least used in PvE because you brought up the metrics, well there you are. Survivability is not the problem, its the damage of smash. They do need to rework the focus, ill be first to admit, but they dont need to nerf the survivability of the entire AC, is my point.

[Sathid]

See balance is when every class has counter classes. Which is why its easier to balance a game around 8v8 then it is around 4v4 btw. But im not going into that. Carnage/combat, are supposed be the counter to healers (see healing debuff). Lets not forget there are class you simply laugh at when they try to damage you, you probably dont even bother kiting them sometimes. Maybe Shien knight/war. Because you have a counter class that means there is balance. You shouldnt be calling for nerf just because you can be countered by a certain class.

 

I can understand counter etc,but this is over the top.

[L-RANDLE]

let me get this straight, your lowering the survivability of the two least played specs making focus the primary damage spec, while increasing the utility of the other two specs? So who is your boss at BW? Just like BW seems like you want more smashers.

 

The Defence is not the problem, its the damage of smash that would be a problem. Sins have a vanish and 100% immunity to force/tech cd, i dont hear clamour about removing that, and they are the best 1v1 class atm.

 

UDR is not an issue, not an issue at all. When you see a sent use UDR, (here is a well known secret among people that PvP). CC them. Stun them. Root them. Snare them. All work. And you can even use a couple of those when they are white barred!. Knights/Wars are supposed to leap into enemies and drive them back (they are melee and hence why they have leap), in doing so, they absolutely must have dcds. No way around it. Especially when you have ranged, like Smugglers with their dodge, and seemingly infinite dcds and gap openers.

 

If UDR gives you problems learn to cycle your dcds, you might find it no longer gives you problems.

 

How the hell did you read that? LOL

 

It is DUMB that a pure DPS class has anything, even remotely considered tankie, in the baseline of the AC. Tankie stuff should come from Rage tree only.

 

How the hell is adding better damage reflect on Ani considered utility? Its Juyo, cloak of pain should be WAY better for Juyo. Ani has more problems, but that would be a start.

 

More speed, energy, and debuffs on Ataru utility? Um... No.... The more spam, the better the rng, the more better.

 

 

Trust me there would be many less Raggers if those changes were made...

[L-RANDLE]

2- they nerfed he healing so yes agree they should put him as it was before at least

3- are you saying they should increase focus coast? if so in wath? and wath you mean on camouflage?

4-can you explain better please?

5-retaliation is useless pretty much for sentinel, and you mean saber reflect?

6- hun don't think so, that would make protection too far away,

 

2. Yes, but Juyo is based on using an enemies damage to increase your own attacks. Ani needs a major revamp, but fixing those two is a start.

3. No.. decrease cost across the board, making Massacre available mote often. Mo Massacre; Mo Ataru; Mo Crits.

4. Sweep has a proc called Singularity which increases Sweep damage by 33% on top of the autocrit. Move it to another AoE attack called Cyclone Slash, which is subject to rng. This is a slight nerf.

5. If Reposite did 6k crit damage when in Shien, would u use it?

6. Guard... Meh Guard us only problematic because healing is screwed up. Tanks need healers more than healers need tanks. Just this would make tanks more viable..

Edited October 3, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

Careful what can you decide to open, I could apply the same attitude to anything. When commandos werent viable for any spec in ranked i could have said, "Well commandos is without a doubt a PvE class so they dont need to be buffed at all for PvP, hence their numbers." Thats not balance. The goal, ideally is to have every spec in every class be viable for PvP and PvE, in reality usually only 2 of 3 specs end up being viable in either PvE or PvP.

 

I brought up smash being least used in PvE because you brought up the metrics, well there you are. Survivability is not the problem, its the damage of smash. They do need to rework the focus, ill be first to admit, but they dont need to nerf the survivability of the entire AC, is my point.

Am far from say combat is op, was just trying to compare trees.

And say again the class in general don't need a nerf, the focus tree needs, is from that tree the qq about survival come, 20% damage reduction for 10 secs at least, plus cheaper guarded by the force.

leave combat in piece for god sake without the current def skills combat would not be worth playing...

[Mikeieveli]

How the hell did you read that? LOL

 

It is DUMB that a pure DPS class has anything, even remotely considered tankie, in the baseline of the AC. Tankie stuff should come from Rage tree only.

 

How the hell is adding better damage reflect on Ani considered utility? Its Juyo, cloak of pain should be WAY better for Juyo. Ani has more problems, but that would be a start.

 

More speed, energy, and debuffs on Ataru utility? Um... No.... The more spam, the better the rng, the more better.

 

 

Trust me there would be many less Raggers if those changes were made...

 

I read that because that is logical conclusion of your suggestions.

 

First off, pure melee dps classes should have tankie dcds to protect themselves from being burned down. If they dont, then they are squishy, and being melee you will get burned down too easy no one would play the class. If you are suggesting that for a melee should have dcds that are equivalent to a range well then no one would play melee. Sorry, thats how it works. Ranged gives up survivability because they dont have to be in your face to damage, they can be at... range. Melee gives up that benefit but in return gets more survivability. Thats how it works, all things be equal. Melee has gap closers, range has gap openers.

 

Secondly, you must be more specific when you talk about watchman and combat. You orginally said more healing for Juyo, well as it works now is raid wide, which makes it utility. If your talking about sent only heal, well then you need to clarify. Combat, raid wide speed, and healing debuff/roots which benefits the raid as whole, all those are utility skills by definition. Now again, if you are talking about debuffs that combat would apply that only benefit the sent, then that is different. As anyone would read though, it would appear that the buffs you suggest specifically to watchman and combat would be buffs of the existing UTILITY skills mentioned above. Again, if I am mistaken on what skills you reference, you must clarify that.

 

Thirdly, as for the raggers, they will always exist. Just as the informed exist, there will always be the counter to them, the uninformed. They can rage all they want, it makes no difference if their arguement isnt strong.

[Mikeieveli]

Am far from say combat is op, was just trying to compare trees.

And say again the class in general don't need a nerf, the focus tree needs, is from that tree the qq about survival come, 20% damage reduction for 10 secs at least, plus cheaper guarded by the force.

leave combat in piece for god sake without the current def skills combat would not be worth playing...

 

I can agree with most of this post. The survivability isnt the issue in any tree, i believe the issue to be with the damage of smash. If they fixed that then I dont think there would much of an issue with the AC.

[L-RANDLE]

I read that because that is logical conclusion of your suggestions.

The point of DPS is to deal damage above all else.

Do they need some Defensive abilities? Yes. Do they need tankie abilities? No, unless it is spec specific, i.e. Mara Rage tree: tankie stuff from alt AC, at the cost of better offense from the other two Mara trees (and somewhat opposite for the Jugg Rage tree; better offense for lower defense than tank tree). This is why moving UDR to a speccable talent in the Rage tree is a significantly better approach. What I am saying is as a melee DPS you should have gap closers and escapes... That's it. Maras are like Delta Force. You are saying Delta Force should be able to stand in front of an entire brigade. Nope, it don't work that way.

 

 

Besides that, I still don't see how you interpreted my response as a utility buff. Do you understand the premise that "your offense is your defense"?

 

2. Significantly increase damage reflect and passive healing on Ani.

3. Slight increases in energy management, speed, and debuffs on Carn.

 

None of those have anything to do with utility.

 

Juyo

Lore: 100% offensive, uses enemies attacks to increase its own attacks or reflect back to enemy.

Game related: Defense is built into the premise that damage is reflected to targets. If you are reflecting damage better in Juyo, do you need UDR? No..

 

Ataru

Lore: 100% offensive, increased speed and force enhanced attacks.

Game Related: Defense is built in because your speed and force attacks should enable you to win DPS races at a faster pace. Do you need UDR if you kill the enemy? No.

 

 

The problem is that the Devs are fixated on making specs more "well-rounded", when they should be more specialized, and fit the lore better. I would not be opposed to giving these specs more escape options, but UDR, a tankie CD, should not be a baseline for this AC.

Edited October 4, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

This is why moving UDR to a speccable talent in the Rage .

Mate you cant be serious, really you can only be joking, that is the most silly idea i hard, not to mention would make the remaining sentinels change to focus too because would make the tree even more superior than its now, as if there inst enough spamming smash.

 

Aside note forgive me but allow me to be crazy or silly whatever : take away guarded by the force and then give me a warding call, yes because 45% damage reduction vs a 99% reduction but coasting half of current hp seems a better deal....

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zez-Kai-Ell

[L-RANDLE]

Mate you cant be serious, really you can only be joking, that is the most silly idea i hard, not to mention would make the remaining sentinels change to focus too, as if there inst enough spamming smash.

 

Aside note forgive me but allow me to be crazy or silly whatever : take away guarded by the force and then give me a warding call, yes because 45% damage reduction vs a 99% reduction but coasting half of current hp seems a better deal....

 

Did you actually read/comprehend the post? You think Maras will go Rage for UDR, if Smash is nerfed and other specs buffed? What are you smoking and can I have some?

 

 

NO TANKIE; UNLESS SPECCIE. Maras have plenty of options for offense. Tankie defense should be in the shared tree...

For your knowledge read these:

"Your Offense is your Defense".

 

Then read all the lightsaber forms and try to apply those principles to this game.

 

PS: In the case of Juyo, tell me what you would prefer 99% mitigation for 50% HP or 100% mitigation because the attack was reflected back at its origin? That is the level at which Juyo should be working at.

Edited October 4, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

Did you actually read/comprehend the post? You think Maras will go Rage for UDR, if Smash is nerfed and other specs buffed? What are you smoking and can I have some?

 

 

NO TANKIE; UNLESS SPECCIE. Maras have plenty of options for offense. Tankie defense should be in the shared tree...

For your knowledge read these:

"Your Offense is your Defense".

 

Then read all the lightsaber forms and try to apply those principles to this game.

 

ahah serious its obvious you are a sentinel smasher, and accusing others of smocking weed is even more hilarious and you dont know what you are saying just by that sugestion, so focus is already op as hell in dps results and great survival and you are asking to be even more op? really? no one until now even considered such no sense until now but you had to remember on that, you already have a 2 leap and allow jump in cover, force exhaustion and you want add guarded by the force as another skill? ok serious just pfff have a good day mate. cheers

 

By the way if kist fisto would have exhaustion then cc with stasis and finally smashed sidious first soon as he attacked maybe he wouldnt get stabed

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zez-Kai-Ell

[L-RANDLE]

ahah serious its obvious you are a sentinel smasher, and accusing others of smocking weed is even more hilarious and you dont know what you are saying just by that sugestion, so focus is already op as hell in dps results and great survival and you are asking to be even more op? really? no one until now even considered such no sense until now but you had to remember on that, you already have a 2 leap and allow jump in cover, force exhaustion and you want add guarded by the force as another skill? ok serious just pfff have a good day mate. cheers

 

By the way if kist fisto would have exhaustion then cc with stasis and finally smashed sidious first soon as he attacked maybe he wouldnt get stabed

I'm Carnage and haven't been Shii Cho since I had enough points to go Carnage.

Plus, UDR is already there!!!!!! You need to just let it go. You are too fixated on the scoreboard numbers, when in fact, Rage single target and sustained damage is lackluster. There is no way that Juyo or Ataru should have a tank talent. Period.

 

Arent you the same one who said there are no attacks "within a mile of Smash" on the other specs? Do you know that Carnage Scream crits hit just as hard as Smash crits on a single target? This is really the ONLY problem with Rage. It shouldnt hit for over 4k, but it does...

Edited October 4, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Raansu]

You all really should stop replying to L-RANDLE. Based on every single post I've read from him in the past few days he has ZERO understanding of swtor's meta game and has ZERO understanding of balance. Case in point, he's a crappy player.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Force camo is far better then GBTF, imo GBTF is extremely overrated. Almost always when I dont have force camo off CD to use after GBTF i die.

 

It is situational. If I have a healer behind me GBTF is more valuable since I can say "Used guarded" and the healer will focus heal me and in 4-5 seconds he can top heal me with some lucky crits and if i use my heal adrenal after GBTF. This gives the sent a second wind. And is common practice in pre-made groups. In pugs I use camo to break up when I'm about to die and run for the healer or WZ buffs holding GBTF as a back up if I'm engaged on low health after camo is off for a last stand brawl.

GBTF allows you to stay in the face of the enemy dealing with him while getting healed, camo is an ex-filtrate ability but it relieves the pressure on opponent too allowing him to hamper your healer.

That's my view in a nutshell, not pretending it's the absolute truth .

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

You all really should stop replying to L-RANDLE. Based on every single post I've read from him in the past few days he has ZERO understanding of swtor's meta game and has ZERO understanding of balance. Case in point, he's a crappy player.

 

Well you are totally right but unfortunately i only get that conclusion after his last great idea (putting guarded by the force as a skill in focus)... omg serious

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zez-Kai-Ell

[L-RANDLE]

You all really should stop replying to L-RANDLE. Based on every single post I've read from him in the past few days he has ZERO understanding of swtor's meta game and has ZERO understanding of balance. Case in point, he's a crappy player.

.My 1000s of MVP votes says otherwise. its irrelevant anyway. its the default response for someone that has no point or a bad one to say the least..

 

Anyway....

 

Youre defending someone that doesnt know his own spec.

Meta game? You want to talk PvP meta game?

 

Here's an idea

If you want tank type abilities, pick a class that has tank stuff.

DPS should be countering healing, does healers have meaningful damage that you need tank type CDs?

 

Ground breaking, I know but since you are the authority on meta explain why ranged DPS has tank type CDs as well?..

 

But keep trying to justify it. Its pretty obvious this AC has issues on every spec. Its cute.

Edited October 4, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Lowyjowylof]

See balance is when every class has counter classes. Which is why its easier to balance a game around 8v8 then it is around 4v4 btw. But im not going into that. Carnage/combat, are supposed be the counter to healers (see healing debuff). Lets not forget there are class you simply laugh at when they try to damage you, you probably dont even bother kiting them sometimes. Maybe Shien knight/war. Because you have a counter class that means there is balance. You shouldnt be calling for nerf just because you can be countered by a certain class.

 

The Problem is is that Sent/Mara counter multiple classes and with ease. Sniper/Slinger might be the counter to Sent/Mara, but guess what they're the only true ranged class with as many CDs as a Sent/Mara.

 

let me get this straight, your lowering the survivability of the two least played specs making focus the primary damage spec, while increasing the utility of the other two specs? So who is your boss at BW? Just like BW seems like you want more smashers.

 

The Defence is not the problem, its the damage of smash that would be a problem. Sins have a vanish and 100% immunity to force/tech cd, i dont hear clamour about removing that, and they are the best 1v1 class atm.

 

Knights/Wars are supposed to leap into enemies and drive them back (they are melee and hence why they have leap), in doing so, they absolutely must have dcds. No way around it. Especially when you have ranged, like Smugglers with their dodge, and seemingly infinite dcds and gap openers.

 

Again, Sent/Mara defense is the problem because they are more survivable than both guardian DPS trees and and more damage. If it was balanced Guardian would be studier as a whole but less DPS than Sent/Mara. I'm fine with the damage they put out maybe Focus/Rage smash/sweep needs to be dialed back a bit, but not into the ground. Just because you get countered by the one pure dps ranged class, doesn't mean you should have the iWIN button against every other class.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Lowyjowylof

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

The Problem is is that Sent/Mara counter multiple classes and with ease. Sniper/Slinger might be the counter to Sent/Mara, but guess what they're the only true ranged class with as many CDs as a Sent/Mara.

 

 

 

Again, Sent/Mara defense is the problem because they are more survivable than both guardian DPS trees and and more damage. If it was balanced Guardian would be studier as a whole but less DPS than Sent/Mara. I'm fine with the damage they put out maybe Focus/Rage smash/sweep needs to be dialed back a bit, but not into the ground. Just because you get countered by the one pure dps ranged class, doesn't mean you should have the iWIN button against every other class.

 

I tell you the same i told the others, your problem is smash monkeys, which poping GBTF they can still hit nasty, all the QQ about sentinels are just because that skill? i se sages dealing with that and they are the weakest class in survival. serious why not then cry for allow interrupt snipers in cover and nerf their cd too? lets even suppose BW once again do a stupid nerf and then wath will be the next qq reason? snipers? shadows? people will have to find always some class to cry about. When is most cases are people who want their main class be a counter to every other class. With the stupid amount of c on this game and still have no idea how to use it. Have faced all classes on wz and good players know what to do, or people anyway expect survive when attacked by 2 marauders? let the nerf come and wathever they do peopel will cry still for one more, dont we had enough nerfs until now? the gameplay was far more enjoyable around 1.3 then now thanks to all this changes...

[Lowyjowylof]

I tell you the same i told the others, your problem is smash monkeys, which poping GBTF they can still hit nasty, all the QQ about sentinels are just because that skill? i se sages dealing with that and they are the weakest class in survival. serious why not then cry for allow interrupt snipers in cover and nerf their cd too? lets even suppose BW once again do a stupid nerf and then wath will be the next qq reason? snipers? shadows? people will have to find always some class to cry about. When is most cases are people who want their main class be a counter to every other class. With the stupid amount of c on this game and still have no idea how to use it. Have faced all classes on wz and good players know what to do, or people anyway expect survive when attacked by 2 marauders? let the nerf come and wathever they do peopel will cry still for one more, dont we had enough nerfs until now? the gameplay was far more enjoyable around 1.3 then now thanks to all this changes...

 

Snipers will get nerfed when Sents/Maras do. No one should win a 1 on 2 disadvantage, but if there is one class than can when played exceptionally, it's Sent/Mara against certain classes. All classes put out about the same damage but only a few can do that reliably. Like I said before I'm fine, with the damage they put out, other than smash that should be toned down a bit maybe ~6500 crit, rather than 8500-9k.

 

The fact that arguably the worst DCD Sent/Mara has is on the longest CD. The rest are at 1:30 or less and that is of the 5 that all 3 trees share. Putting GBTF/UDR at a 3 MIn CD and Saber Reflect on 1:00 or 1 min 30 isn't unreasonable and out of the realm of reality. The only other "god mode" special I am aware of is Sage Barrier and it's a channel where it can't do anything else and on 3 min CD. All Sent/Mara DCDs allow it to keep DPSing except Camo.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Lowyjowylof

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

Snipers will get nerfed when Sents/Maras do. No one should win a 1 on 2 disadvantage, but if there is one class than can when played exceptionally, it's Sent/Mara against certain classes. All classes put out about the same damage but only a few can do that reliably. Like I said before I'm fine, with the damage they put out, other than smash that should be toned down a bit maybe ~6500 crit, rather than 8500-9k.

 

The fact that arguably the worst DCD Sent/Mara has is on the longest CD. The rest are at 1:30 or less and that is of the 5 that all 3 trees share. Putting GBTF/UDR at a 3 MIn CD and Saber Reflect on 1:00 or 1 min 30 isn't unreasonable and out of the realm of reality. The only other "god mode" special I am aware of is Sage Barrier and it's a channel where it can't do anything else and on 3 min CD. All Sent/Mara DCDs allow it to keep DPSing except Camo.

 

You self said on your answer man: smash 8.5/9k

And you know why? they ignore all mechanics on game, stacking exclusively power surge, and 0 accuracy and focus gives them 15% extra surge and they don't suffer diminishing returns, you wanna compare a sentinel combat with 70/73% max surge against a monkey with 91% surge? mate the difference is huge is sad people complain about the class without even first play them and all his trees, do you have any idea how squishy a combat sentinel is? they need all the defense tools they have but its the bad player a and bw dev's who don't see that.

Play the class on all trees and compare 1 and 2 to focus, you have any minimal knowledge of the class and his skill no offense am sorry then just read the damn focus rage tree. your answer is there

Combat sent cant hit blade storm like smash,8k? what 1 rare occasion in every 20 or more attacks.... dont forget they need accuracy too on gear monkeys don't. and in case you forget smash got buffed 8% on 2.0, spamming slash, dispatch and blade storm reduce the current cd on smash by 1 sec for every skill... if you wanna call GBTF god mode then you are only right if they play focus, go read tree and see why..

And btw snipers get nerfed? i have not even idea from where they should start

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zez-Kai-Ell

[L-RANDLE]

Combat sent cant hit blade storm like smash,8k? what 1 rare occasion in every 20 or more attacks.... dont forget they need accuracy too on gear monkeys don't. and in case you forget smash got buffed 8% on 2.0, spamming slash, dispatch and blade storm reduce the current cd on smash by 1 sec for every skill... if you wanna call GBTF god mode then you are only right if they play focus, go read tree and see why.. btw snipers get nerfed? i have not even idea from where they should start

 

LOL Raansu says I should be ignored, when something like this is posted.

 

Pfft... Carrying accuracy on a Combat Sent...

[JestersRevenge]

Combat sent cant hit blade storm like smash,8k? what 1 rare occasion in every 20 or more attacks.... dont forget they need accuracy too on gear...

 

My Partisan itemized Combat Sentinel is full Power / Surge. With the correct talents (haven't played him in awhile), I was sitting between 95% and 96% Accuracy, which is plenty in PvP especially against non-tank classes. I don't have one piece of Accuracy in my gear and I rarely miss. So...

[L-RANDLE]

My Partisan itemized Combat Sentinel is full Power / Surge. With the correct talents (haven't played him in awhile), I was sitting between 95% and 96% Accuracy, which is plenty in PvP especially against non-tank classes. I don't have one piece of Accuracy in my gear and I rarely miss. So...

It hasn't changed...

And I hit 6.8k scream last night with no 4pc set bonus and 1820EXP.

 

But Combat is squishier and weaker.....