The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) There is currently a petition here on the forums addressing a variety of gameplay issues: To: BioWare The PvP community and some loyal subscribers of Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ are sick and tired of you not being dedicated to PvP, the overall state of this game, and the loyal subscribers. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=682200 When you have people sign a petition such as this, what you end up with is a list of people who all agree with the petition. What a petition does not tell you is how many people disagree with it, and can therefore give a one-sided impression to the people the petition is designed to influence. The purpose of this thread is neither to support or oppose the petition in question, as that is for each individual person to decide for themselves. Rather, the purpose of this thread/poll is simply to compare the amount of people who agree with the petition with the amount who disagree, instead of only presenting one side of the issue. Therefore, please answer the following questions: Do you agree with this petition? (click link to vote) Do you give the creators of the petition permission to speak for you? (click link to vote) Afterwards, feel free to share your thoughts PS: By request, Could you go for pizza? (click link to vote) Edited October 8, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I agree to a degree. I don't do "end game" PvP in this game I just use it as a levelling tool. As someone who is a huge PvP'er from DAoC and WAR (plus games like Planetside 2, Tribes Ascend, DOTA 2, APB ... you get the point, I like PvP and do it a lot)...... The PvP here is truly awful. Small scale, dull and uninspired. It does give nice XP which is pointless at max level so I avoid it. It just isn't fun in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suntaru Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Thank you Grand Nagus for coming up with a way to get a proper count either Yea or Nay. I'm glad you are here now. You did a lot of good in STO by getting a better count on what players wanted there also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricul Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Thanks for the link. I'll sign the petition immediately ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Thank you Grand Nagus for coming up with a way to get a proper count either Yea or Nay. I'm glad you are here now. You did a lot of good in STO by getting a better count on what players wanted there also. Thank you for the sentiment. However it should be noted that the forums do not represent the majority of any game's players. There are 2 different reasons for that: 1) only a small percent of the playerbase actually posts on the forms 2) people are more likely to speak up when they are upset about something When you combine both of those reasons, you wind up with a small percentage of people who are upset about various issues, and those people can never represent the happy people who are not upset with those issues who dont post on the forums. So this poll will never tell you how the majority of the game's players feel about anything. But since this petition is posted here on the forums, it will at least tell you whether the people here on the forums agree with it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heal-To-Full Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) The petition in question does include two valid concerns - namely 1) the exclusion of Ranked matches from dailies and weeklies on the PTS and 2) the lack of rejoin ability. So why don't I join this petition for these valid points it does have? The same reason why PRISM opponents don't join up with conspiracy seeker crowds, even though both oppose government surveillance. Because such an alliance only serves to discredit the first group's cause. Both these concerns are well voiced already. In fact, this petition even reminds me of how the most outrageous of US legislation is passed: a few trivial and non-controversial issues are compiled together (in this case, half the petition is on the Known Bugs list), then a hair-pulling provision is tackled to the end (in this case the moderation reform bit), then the bill gets mistaken for routine "maintenance " legislation and passes on the merit of its trivial provisions. I do not oppose the points addressed in this petition. I do oppose the particular way they are addressed in this particular petition. Edited September 22, 2013 by Heal-To-Full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainrycKarr Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I agree with everything with the exception of subscriber benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suntaru Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Thank you for the sentiment. However it should be noted that the forums do not represent the majority of any game's players. There are 2 different reasons for that: 1) only a small percent of the playerbase actually posts on the forms 2) people are more likely to speak up when they are upset about something When you combine both of those reasons, you wind up with a small percentage of people who are upset about various issues, and those people can never represent the happy people who are not upset with those issues who dont post on the forums. So this poll will never tell you how the majority of the game's players feel about anything. But since this petition is posted here on the forums, it will at least tell you whether the people here on the forums agree with it or not. According to Eric Musco he did quote that here in SWTOR only 5% of the player population frequents these forums compared to around 25% in STO and almost 30% in POTBS. I for one wish that they would take roughly 10 items off the Devs wall of crazy and just send a bulk email to player personal email and ask for a number 1-10 to be put along side of those suggestions so they would have a better idea of what the playerbase really wants. Edited September 22, 2013 by Suntaru Additional content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 What exactly is the point of this thread? If you disagree with a post, post *in the thread you disagree with*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) What exactly is the point of this thread? If you disagree with a post, post *in the thread you disagree with*. Due to the fact that some people dont want to get in an argument just because they disagree with something, they dont bother to post at all. This allows those folks to express their opinion without having to worry about being insulted for doing so. Also, many of the same people post more than once, making it hard to get an accurate count of how many people feel one way vs another. Edited September 22, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suntaru Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Grand Nagus, By the way , Blackavaar has been seen here also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Due to the fact that some people dont want to get in an argument just because they disagree with something, they dont bother to post at all. Also, many of the same people post more than once, making it hard to get an accurate count of how many people feel one way vs another. That doesnt answer the question as to why this thread was necessary..... If they disagree with it and dont want to argue on the forums, are they any more likely to post in this thread? Probably not. Since when is total post count any kind of indicator of support or lack thereof? If you disagree with it, *post in the thread* and participate in the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 That doesnt answer the question as to why this thread was necessary..... If they disagree with it and dont want to argue on the forums, are they any more likely to post in this thread? Probably not. You misunderstand. They can vote in the poll and not have to post anything at all. Then they dont have to worry about being insulted just for sharing their opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Just an FYI you posted this in general discussion and most likely will get PVE trolls downvoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Just an FYI you posted this in general discussion and most likely will get PVE trolls downvoting. I intentionally posted in the same board that the petition was posted in. If it had been posted in the PvP forum, I would have posted this thread there as well. Edited September 22, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 One can't troll by voting either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I believe there are valid concerns in the thread, the trouble is that we know the rules of conduct discourages petitions. By putting a ultimatum in a petition requiring Bioware to respond positively to something that is technically against the rules, they're putting them in a bad spot that will look bad on them no matter what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 One can't troll by voting either way. What? You didnt know that not agreeing with someone else on the internet is trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 What? You didnt know that not agreeing with someone else on the internet is trolling? The definition for trolling really needs to be adjusted. I rarely see true trolls anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoLFpwr Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I should start a thread : Do you agree with the ''Nobody Cares about space missions'' thread thread ? should be very interesting ! and wouldn't flood the forums at all and keep it clean with subjects all at one place RIGHT ?????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) I agree with any effort, by anyone, to truly attempt to improve the game via any constructive means necessary. I tend to not venture into "nit-picky" details that detract from the impact of such as they tend to smack of subversion. Edited September 22, 2013 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) So let me get this straight?? You created another thread to start a petition about a thread you linked in your OP?? Really?? I don't suppose you thought of adding the petition into the other thread as a post?? To make matters worse.. The thread your petition is about is a petition.. Dude.. Seriously?? Troll much?? Seriously.. It really bothers me that people are to lazy to make a point in their OP and just give a link for me to go read somewhere else what they are talking about.. Also petitions are all but meaningless.. Less than 1% of the games population is even going to take the time to respond.. They are just not an accurate means to determining the will of the community.. PVP or otherwise.. I appreciate what you are trying to do.. I just question your methods.. We really don't need a thread that is nothing more than a petition for an existing thread.. Just put the petition in the existing thread.. My opinions of course.. Edited September 22, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Yes, the big problems with the longevity of the game being: Performance and ability delay. These issues need a serious fix if they want the game to be more accessible to people. Edited September 22, 2013 by spectreclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) So let me get this straight?? You created another thread to start a petition about a thread you linked in your OP?? Really?? I don't suppose you thought of adding the petition into the other thread as a post?? To make matters worse.. The thread your petition is about is a petition.. Dude.. Seriously?? Troll much?? Seriously.. It really bothers me that people are to lazy to make a point in their OP and just give a link for me to go read somewhere else what they are talking about.. Also petitions are all but meaningless.. Less than 1% of the games population is even going to take the time to respond.. They are just not an accurate means to determining the will of the community.. PVP or otherwise.. I appreciate what you are trying to do.. I just question your methods.. We really don't need a thread that is nothing more than a petition for an existing thread.. Just put the petition in the existing thread.. My opinions of course.. I think you may be under the impression that this thread is promoting the petition, but that is not the case. The purpose of this thread is actually to compare those who support the petition with those who do not. You may be wondering, isnt that the very purpose of the petition? No. You see, when you have people sign a petition, all you end up with is a list of people who all agree with the petition. That does not tell you how many people disagree with it, and it can give a deceptive appearance to the people the petition is designed to influence. So again, the purpose of this thread/poll is specifically to compare the amount of people who agree with the petition and those who disagree, without only presenting on side of the issue. Edited September 22, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) All valid questions, so allow me to answer. When you have people sign a petition, all you end up with is a list of people who all agree with the petition. That does not tell you how many people disagree with it, and it can give a deceptive appearance to the people the petition is designed to influence. So the purpose of this thread/poll is specifically to compare the amount of people who agree with the petition and those who disagree, without only presenting on side of the issue. The specific wording of the petition implies that it has the support of the majority of the PvP community, and possibly others, so my goal is to find out whether that is the case or not. In all fairness, you're not reaching out to the PvP community so this poll is going to be one-sided. Edited September 22, 2013 by SithEBM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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