Love the class but worried

[thecoffeecup]

I have a lot of characters by now and keep going back and forth, having a lot of trouble trying to figure out what to max out next. Mainly playing juggernaut/merc these days. However, my first character and the one I am most interested in is still the scoundrel/op. However, due to the overwhelming negativity I've not really leveled it completely yet. It started out with all the Hidden Strike PvP whining and the nerf that followed, and now I'm seeing that same disturbing whining about the healing.

 

I only reached 41, but I found healing to be *extremely* easy so far in the sense that I am not really able to run out of energy (and I don't even have all the talents yet). I guess maybe this is why people are calling for nerfs, I'm not really sure because 41 is too low to tell.

 

The thing is, I'm worried about the future. I'm worried that we'll see kneejerk healing nerfs that'll make the class go from overpowered to underpowered (this isn't my first MMO you see!). We *know* that Flyby/OS is getting nerfed, and if you look at the top parses that "prove" that it's a good DPS class, that one ability is a big chunk of DPS. Moreover, I actually really like Scrapper/Concealment, and that's already mediocre from what I can tell before nerfing Flyby. How will it fare after? From the recent answers, it doesn't look like Scrapper PvE damage is something they really think about. Maybe they'll change a filler ability a bit, big whoop. Looks like it'll actually get *worse* when Flyby is nerfed.

 

Maybe I should stop worrying and finally get either my scoundrel or my op maxed, geared and auged, but I just hate wasting my time, and I really, really hate the eternal balance circus of MMOs.

Edited September 22, 2013 by thecoffeecup

[Saacius]

Don't really expect to see anything soon. I read somewhere on the sniper forum that the os/flyby nerfs are quite a ways away. Even with the up coming release of other triple A mmos, bioware still seems to be taking their damn time with class balancing. Haven't seen anything significant since early this year, which is scary. Scoundrels are probably going to get a healing nerf, but also won't likely receive any help for the other 2 specs which are pretty sub par.

 

I'm currently leveling a scoundrel, but its out of pure boredom, and I won't be upset if they get nerfed into the dirt even more. Which will probably happen at some point.

[thecoffeecup]

This is why I worry. If they end up nerfing the class too much, we're going to be waiting another year for a possible fix.

 

I like SWTOR and I don't mean to turn this into a TOR bashing thread, I just *really* hope they know what they're doing with the upcoming changes.

[randiesel]

This is why I worry. If they end up nerfing the class too much, we're going to be waiting another year for a possible fix.

 

I like SWTOR and I don't mean to turn this into a TOR bashing thread, I just *really* hope they know what they're doing with the upcoming changes.

 

Another year? We've been waiting 2 years to even hear a word from BW in any form just to know they heard our concern, don't expect to see anything to be done for scoundrel dps (as far as pvp is concerned). Don't expect it as in ever.

 

The class, as a pvp dps, is in the toilet, so spare yourself the time and just level a slinger if you even care to finish the smuggler story. You'll hit 55 and be roped into playing the scoundrel just because you put the time/effort into doing it, so you'll likely convince yourself that the class is viable in some form, when it's really not.

[Cordorian]

In all fairness, haven't played a merc/commando healer yet, but healing pretty much on my sage, so i can confirm that scoundrel healing is easy mode. No energy management (or almost none) and those 3 nice instant heals are just too good to be true. So as much as I love the class, i think in all fairness either mercs and sages need a massive healing buff or more likely we need a bit of nerf. But i agree they should be careful, a little bit too much and the class will vanish from the game entirely. I think making energy management a bit harder would be a good direction and maybe give the other two some more instant healing abilities.

From my sage i have the very subjective feeling, that the pure burst healing output is higher than on the scoundrel and it is just energy management (in PVP and PVE) that make it inferior and the need to cast almost all heals (PVP).

 

Well Scrapper never really was a PVE spec, but a flyby nerf would be tough considering that only if you manage to get this into your rotation and use shot first more than once in an encounter (which apparently we shouldnt) and a very tight rotation that brings you on the binge of 0 energy if you make a little mistake, can get you decent to good dps PVE wise (what Invinc roll and you see what I mean). I think it is one of the toughest DPS rotations out there and add to that postional requirements and the need to be melee most of the time, it is probably the hardest spec for PVE in game. I flyby nerf would be lethal here i guess (not so much for PVP). From what i have seen and heard DF is fine PVE wise (could use some more survivablity, but they dont need to be melee all the time) but even this spec would be massively hurt by flyby nerfs.

 

PVP wise we all now of the sad state of scrapper and its not gona change. DF a little better, but still not really great.

 

I think Bioware is actually doing their performance metrics around leveling and not on endgame contend... since I really couldn't explain some of the answer they gave us to the questions otherwise.

Stealth and offhealing are great during leveling and really make up for the lack of monster CD Mara/Sents have, but in Operations and PVP they dont help that much. And the Shoot First thing is blatantly obvious in leveling, since you would reset the fight using Disappearing act anyway.

I guess not even Smash is that OP during leveling, so that why they failed to see it in 2 years.

[thecoffeecup]

Agree about healing. I am worried about an overreaction followed by a long period of poor performance. It's the cycle of nerfs and buffs seen so commonly in MMOs. Rather than making very gradual adjustments, some MMO developers seem to prefer to leave class balance issues alone for ages until they finally come in and "fix" it in one fell swoop, replacing old imbalances with new ones. BioWare can still rise above this, however.

 

As for Scrapper not being a PvE spec. I've seen this argument before and it makes no sense to me. Why is it not supposed to be a PvE spec? Because Dirty Fighting does more sustained damage? That just sounds like a balance issue to me.

[Cordorian]

Agree about healing. I am worried about an overreaction followed by a long period of poor performance. It's the cycle of nerfs and buffs seen so commonly in MMOs. Rather than making very gradual adjustments, some MMO developers seem to prefer to leave class balance issues alone for ages until they finally come in and "fix" it in one fell swoop, replacing old imbalances with new ones. BioWare can still rise above this, however.

 

As for Scrapper not being a PvE spec. I've seen this argument before and it makes no sense to me. Why is it not supposed to be a PvE spec? Because Dirty Fighting does more sustained damage? That just sounds like a balance issue to me.

Like infiltration for shadows scrapper doesn't really seem to be intended for PVE use, because of the positional requirements and the dependance of stealth, which both are not really helping in Operations (like every boss has super duper stealth detection). And even something ridiculously easy now as EV can be slightly annoying as a scrapper (Infernal Council) since you don't get a tank to turn them away from you, so you can't use flechet round and back blast. Otherwise since 2.0 scrappers has ok to good sustained damage, but compared to other classes they are very hard to play good in PVE, that what leads a lot of people including me to think the spec wasn't really designed for PVE as it is now in the game. Considering PVE is not really melee friendly with all the AoE damage around and us not have any AoE mitigation or Mara monster CDs. And despite the damage being alright in the hands of a very competent player, the melee DPS spot will usually be filled by a mara/sent since they have the nice raid buffs and also get the required damage more easily done. This might be a perception problem on the side of raid groups, but yeah you will have harder time in PVE than quite a lot of other classes and specs.

[KevMeup]

I doubt they will nerf heals much if any. I can get the same numbers on my sorc as I can op, I just handle focus better on my op. Merc heals has some giant gaps pvp wise that they'll hopefully fix instead of bringing down the other 2.

 

Lethality (dirty fighting) being able to do rauder dps pve is a bit OP right now, if they are smart they will nerf it slightly (and Arenal merc noticeably).

 

I don't think they will touch middle tree. In the right hands it's still very deadly and even does decent H2F level dps in pve. It's the best objective tree in the game in my opinion.

[Cordorian]

I doubt they will nerf heals much if any. I can get the same numbers on my sorc as I can op, I just handle focus better on my op. Merc heals has some giant gaps pvp wise that they'll hopefully fix instead of bringing down the other 2.

 

Lethality (dirty fighting) being able to do rauder dps pve is a bit OP right now, if they are smart they will nerf it slightly (and Arenal merc noticeably).

 

I don't think they will touch middle tree. In the right hands it's still very deadly and even does decent H2F level dps in pve. It's the best objective tree in the game in my opinion.

 

Sorc heals useless in Arena pretty much, since force management and everything casted, you can be happy if you get one or two heals of at all. That is there reason Operative are FOTM, in normals and old Ranked Sorcs had a solid healing place in arena there is only one healing class that is competitive.

 

Lethality about right PVE wise, but heck and equally skilled mara or sniper still pull out a bit more, so it is hardly op, and lets not forget lethatlity is an aoe dot spec. In PVP it is mostly number farming, to squishy for arenas or old ranked, good to very good for normals, if played smartly.

 

concealment is sup optimal for PVE, but that is primarily how the fights are designed, and the problem of getting your opener off, without wasting cloaking screen (which normally should be saves for stealth rez). Energy management got better in 2.0, but to really squeeze out top dps, it's gonna be tight.

Concealment has absolutely no place in Arena, since it is too squishy... to stealth dependent to deal damage, and you will either run out of enegery or dont have enough burst to be of much help DPS wise, even if not focused. If focused (which every smart team will do) you are just the one person that is down before it really begins.

In old ranked, to my knowledge there wasnt a single team that gave a dps spot to a concealment operative (unless it was random drunk alts night) . Main reason all concealment can do, an assassin could basically do better, while being less squishy (i know assassins suffer dps wise, but pvp is about burst, and they can have their burst better controlled). In normals it is dependent on the map, group constallation, and the events. You can be the total hero of the wzs, solo killing, kiting like a mad man, being the biggest nuissance in the zone and ninja capping node after node, or you can spend a whole lot of time in respawn. Problem the more stall the battle gets the more horrible concealment becomes.

[Songwhistle]

Tbh i would level your scoundrel. They are amazing fun and i dont see them as OP i just see them as complimenting all the things a sage does badly with as a strong point and vice versa.

 

So when groups are spread out - scoundrels have an easier time keeping them up. when people are grouped together then sage will excel.

 

sages and scoundrels both have pretty awesome spike avoidance, shielding and hots.

 

I doubt we will get any nerf with exception to maybe some sort of survivability nerf in pvp of some sort. Healing wise the class is where it should be.

[Elyx]

Tbh i would level your scoundrel. They are amazing fun and i dont see them as OP i just see them as complimenting all the things a sage does badly with as a strong point and vice versa.

 

So when groups are spread out - scoundrels have an easier time keeping them up. when people are grouped together then sage will excel.

 

sages and scoundrels both have pretty awesome spike avoidance, shielding and hots.

 

I doubt we will get any nerf with exception to maybe some sort of survivability nerf in pvp of some sort. Healing wise the class is where it should be.

 

Exactly. Based on you logic OP, I should prob stop playing my Guard, because at some point here they're going to get nerfed. And my commando too...after all, they are doing well in DPS, so a nerf is on the way. while were at it, I should stop playing my sage as well...because you know...they will get nerfed. it's inevitable.

 

Nerfing, buffing, and the associated ill informed opinions of players are all part of an MMO. You know whats funny? a guild friend of mine who heals on an agent just recently got dropped from PuG Ops so they could take a sorc, cause the Op leader thought sorcs did better healing. Yet here we are, worried about getting a nerf cause our healing is too OP...

 

..you can see how opinions are silly at times. stick with the class you like. if your in a guild that has Op leaders with enough intelligence to aim their little soldiers the right way in the bathroom, they will bring you because your a good player, not because your playing the FoTM class.