Taking their Guild rank, and the game, too seriously....

[SturmUndSterne]

The guild officer's responsibility was to go to the guild leader and discuss it first. The guild leader then decides who gets kicked and who does not. We have someone who doesn't like swearing. My guild generally does not curse in guild chat or when we're doing OPs/FPs, but I'd never allow an officer to kick from guild. That is my responsibility solely.

 

Your entire post is invalid.

 

If that guild allows officers to remove people from the guild, then by definition they HAVE the power to remove, and don't need to go through the GM. Just because YOU manage your guild that way doesn't mean all guilds should or do.

 

You can, as GM, set the guild ranks to allow/disallow any rank to Invite OR remove. If that guild's officers have removal powers, the GM trusts their judgement enough to allow them to remove players. Simple as that. You're welcome to run your guild a different way, but stating that your way is the ONLY way is in fact erroneous.

[MillionsKNives]

Your entire post is invalid.

 

If that guild allows officers to remove people from the guild, then by definition they HAVE the power to remove, and don't need to go through the GM. Just because YOU manage your guild that way doesn't mean all guilds should or do.

 

You can, as GM, set the guild ranks to allow/disallow any rank to Invite OR remove. If that guild's officers have removal powers, the GM trusts their judgement enough to allow them to remove players. Simple as that. You're welcome to run your guild a different way, but stating that your way is the ONLY way is in fact erroneous.

 

Agreed. I gave my officers the rank of officer to represent and help run the guild when I'm not around. I don't need a text message or whatever whenever some recruit does something dumb enough to warrant a kick. I trust and stand by their decisions.

 

If it was a longstanding member and he just said something off-color then it would warrant more discussion, but this was clearly not the case.

[Blackardin]

1) The craziest, most detached from reality, and most obsessive people in MMO's are big into guilds. They are also popular with people who are immature and looking for that highschool social dynamic, otherwise known to adults as pointless drama.

 

2) TOR has a much higher percentage of... self-righteous types than any other MMO I've encountered.

 

Where do people come up with these assertions. LOL

[Blackardin]

We don't know how OP worded his offending statement (or do we?). Did he say something like "WTH, bro, turn on the filter. It's just words. Get a life. Duh?" Or was it "Why not just turn on the filter?" To the latter, the officer could reasonably say "This is a profanity-free guild. We don't want to have to turn on the filter to enjoy profanity-free guild chat." To the former, the officer could reasonably say "You don't seem to be a good fit here."

 

I'm going to guess that it was not as polite and gentlemanly as the alleged victim claims.....it never is.

[LanceCorporalDan]

I would never do that as a guild officer. Some people just don't know how to wield power properly.

 

If the OP did indeed break some sort of rule by simply making a suggestion to an "officer" then that officer should have explained it to the new guild member (OP) instead of flexing his rank unnecessarily and then booting him from guild.

 

I am in one of the "strict military guilds" but we still handle matters professionally. A member wouldn't get the boot unless for a serious reason and the input of several NCO's or officers.

 

Hope you find a guild that actually cares about you OP. That guy seems like an ***

[Blackardin]

This. Exactly. The officer, while certainly within his rights as officer of the guild, could have handled the situation in a much better manner. Removing the drama, and at the same time setting a good example on behalf of the guild.

 

My experience with drama is that it never leaves until the drama queen is gone. One is not going to change an individual from the person they are, in a video game. If this individual is starting trouble after day two, imagine him after a few months, or imagine how those few months would end up.

 

The few times any of my guilds have allowed this type of individual to grow and fester they ended up causing more trouble then they were worth, and in some cases disrupted the entire guild. We officers have enough to do in our guilds without babysitting troublemakers. Booting, in my experience, creates the least amount of stress on both the guild and its members.

[TUXs]

I'm going to guess that it was not as polite and gentlemanly as the alleged victim claims.....it never is.

 

This ^^^

[Blackardin]

I would never do that as a guild officer. Some people just don't know how to wield power properly.

 

If the OP did indeed break some sort of rule by simply making a suggestion to an "officer" then that officer should have explained it to the new guild member (OP) instead of flexing his rank unnecessarily and then booting him from guild.

 

I am in one of the "strict military guilds" but we still handle matters professionally. A member wouldn't get the boot unless for a serious reason and the input of several NCO's or officers.

 

Hope you find a guild that actually cares about you OP. That guy seems like an ***

 

Military guild huh? Ever been in the real military? What would happen if some 2 day recruit told a drill instructor to "chill". LOL

 

Not that I'm picking a fight with you, but it just struck me seeing the military as an example of tolerance and compassion....and again, I'm of the opinion that while the officers are discussing this individual, arguing on the officer boards as to the correct action to take, he is busy escalating the problem. Honestly, I'm sure you have more control in your guild then most, but I've never, ever seen a troublemaker or drama queen change. Not once.

[curtkram]

My experience with drama is that it never leaves until the drama queen is gone. One is not going to change an individual from the person they are, in a video game. If this individual is starting trouble after day two, imagine him after a few months, or imagine how those few months would end up.

 

The few times any of my guilds have allowed this type of individual to grow and fester they ended up causing more trouble then they were worth, and in some cases disrupted the entire guild. We officers have enough to do in our guilds without babysitting troublemakers. Booting, in my experience, creates the least amount of stress on both the guild and its members.

 

the OP just though the profanity filter was a suitable way to filter profanity. the drama queen was the officer who decided to flex their power without consultation and without talking it through with the alleged offender. if the best you can do as an officer in your guild is to boot people without talking to them first, you are a failure and the best thing for you to do would be to ask your guild leader to remove you from your position. i'm not saying you have to do that or anything, because it's your guild and i'm not running it or a part of it. i'm just suggesting that you think about your role and the drama you're creating when you go off on a power trip against people who are just trying to have fun playing a game. people don't like it when others threaten them with being kicked out of a guild. it doesn't matter how trivial a game is or how trivial your guild is, people still don't like being threatened.

[curtkram]

I'm going to guess that it was not as polite and gentlemanly as the alleged victim claims.....it never is.

 

but you don't know that. it's true that we have limited information to go on, and neither of us have first hand knowledge of what transpired. however, you're starting to make up a back story and infill details that didn't happen. you're inventing a scenario that suggests the officer did the right thing so can defend some sort of per-conceived notion that the OP should be wrong.

 

if you want to contribute to the discussion on officer/member behavior, it would be better to go back to the OP and base your opinion on what we have to work with, or at least clarify that you're just making stuff up so you can support a broken ideology built on fantasy.

[TUXs]

the OP just though the profanity filter was a suitable way to filter profanity. the drama queen was the officer who decided to flex their power without consultation and without talking it through with the alleged offender.

 

It became drama when he said "...reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginary hierarchy on a VIDEO GAME, it doesn't make them better than me." - the rage is tangible in his reply.

 

Why deal with a guy like that? Rank means nothing, I TOTALLY agree with him...but the attitude expressed like that is reason enough to boot his ***...I don't deal with drama and if some twerp wants to play interweb tough guy, I'd boot him too. Somebody else can deal with his drama or he's free to start his own guild where he can set any rule he likes.

[PifferPuff]

With your attitude I wouldn't even invite you to a guild. The lady you just jumped down her throat for stating she is a guild leader you are 100% off base. She is one of the kindest and giving individuals you would ever see. She has gone out of her way to help us but you see you are so pig headed and think you have a right to tell a guild how they can run their guild. You don't. You didn't build the guild.

I am at a loss as to how you derived that meaning from the post you quoted. I personally agreed with what that guy there had said, and that I too show the same well-mannered respect to everyone in a guild regardless of rank. Sure, your GM may be the most awesomest person on the planet, but that doesn't mean I'm going to grovel at her feet and ingratiate myself to her. I don't even know her. But, if she forms a raid group and invites me, and we clear it (or at least down a boss or two) and have a good time, I'm going to say, "thank you for the group" -- the same response that I would say to anyone who has me in their group, regardless of ephemeral social standings. That said, if an Officer says, "Hey, I'm an officer," I remain silent. If the GM says, "I'm the Guild Leader," I still remain silent. Anything I can say to that could be construed/misconstrued in a manner not of my initial intent. So, it's best to say nothing at all. Now, that does not mean I will disrespect them, or undermine their leadership in anyway. It means that qualifications of guild rank - or importance thereto - mean absolutely nothing to me, and saying anything to validate such claims to importance invites problems down the road.

 

Ergo, I offer this delightful little snippet: Silence is golden; duct tape is silver. If silence cannot be achieved and drama ensues, in place of duct tape, use /gkick, /gquit, and/or /ignore ... and you're done!

 

 

From what the OP said he was wrong by his comments to a guild officer. He had been there two days not long enough to understand the rules but yet he jumps in when someone was told not to use a specific language. If he had a question he had the same responsibility for communicating to the officer. He could have ask the officer in private about the rules instead of coming across as I will do things my way no matter what the guild rules are.

 

He failed as well as not finding out what kind of rules they had in the first place. You can sit here and judge but there are two sides to and from what I read he was just as wrong as you wanting to blame the guild officer.

(the other side is that the guild officer is just as wrong as the OP. To help you, I highlighted the parts that can go both ways).

 

This is why I said, in an earlier post, that "this thread is bad and should just die." Your last bit there illustrates why: it's a pissing contest to see who was the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him. In my book, both the OP and the officer in question are equally in the wrong. The argument is moot. They now go their separate ways and everything is fine. Nothing to see here; move along.

 

 

Also, since many posts seem to be focusing on the issue of language, I'll add in my two cents as well: If someone elects to swear and cuss, it's their prerogative, and it does not bother me in the least; however, it does color their character differently than those who remain cordial.

Edited September 20, 2013 by PifferPuff

[LanceCorporalDan]

Military guild huh? Ever been in the real military? What would happen if some 2 day recruit told a drill instructor to "chill". LOL

 

Not that I'm picking a fight with you, but it just struck me seeing the military as an example of tolerance and compassion....and again, I'm of the opinion that while the officers are discussing this individual, arguing on the officer boards as to the correct action to take, he is busy escalating the problem. Honestly, I'm sure you have more control in your guild then most, but I've never, ever seen a troublemaker or drama queen change. Not once.

 

Actually yes I have.

 

The difference I would say is that being in a guild, all players should be on equal footing, where as in recruit training a DI would be there to haze and destroy the recruits. Not help them lol.

 

The officers are there to support the guild and enforce rules when needed. I think the officer handled it wrong in my opinion (though each guild perfectly has the right to handle its own affairs as it sees fit). Did the OP go about the right way to bring it up? Maybe, maybe not. It's all here-say lol.

Edited September 20, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[curtkram]

It became drama when he said "...reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginary hierarchy on a VIDEO GAME, it doesn't make them better than me." - the rage is tangible in his reply.

 

Why deal with a guy like that? Rank means nothing, I TOTALLY agree with him...but the attitude expressed like that is reason enough to boot his ***...I don't deal with drama and if some twerp wants to play interweb tough guy, I'd boot him too. Somebody else can deal with his drama or he's free to start his own guild where he can set any rule he likes.

 

that was a smart-*** thing to say, but it was still after the officer pulled ranked and stated that officers should be treated different than other members. the officer is still the drama-queen provoking the toxic environment in the guild.

 

if, as you say, rank means nothing, then the officer would have said "Are you seriously telling people to use their profanity filter?" or "Are you seriously telling guild members to use their profanity filter?" but this guy's mindset was to jump to the eric cartman "respect my authority"

[PifferPuff]

It became drama when he said "...reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginary hierarchy on a VIDEO GAME, it doesn't make them better than me." - the rage is tangible in his reply.

 

Why deal with a guy like that? Rank means nothing, I TOTALLY agree with him...but the attitude expressed like that is reason enough to boot his ***...I don't deal with drama and if some twerp wants to play interweb tough guy, I'd boot him too. Somebody else can deal with his drama or he's free to start his own guild where he can set any rule he likes.

 

Both of your posts . . . . . . . .

 

that was a smart-*** thing to say, but it was still after the officer pulled ranked and stated that officers should be treated different than other members. the officer is still the drama-queen provoking the toxic environment in the guild.

 

if, as you say, rank means nothing, then the officer would have said "Are you seriously telling people to use their profanity filter?" or "Are you seriously telling guild members to use their profanity filter?" but this guy's mindset was to jump to the eric cartman "respect my authority"

 

. . . . . . Are true and totally valid!

 

Now, can we get a group hug and abandon this thread already?

 

 

/sage

(c'mon /sage, work already)

Edited September 20, 2013 by PifferPuff

[TUXs]

that was a smart-*** thing to say, but it was still after the officer pulled ranked and stated that officers should be treated different than other members. the officer is still the drama-queen provoking the toxic environment in the guild.

 

if, as you say, rank means nothing, then the officer would have said "Are you seriously telling people to use their profanity filter?" or "Are you seriously telling guild members to use their profanity filter?" but this guy's mindset was to jump to the eric cartman "respect my authority"

 

Right. It was a smart *** reply, the Officer escalated it, possibly he did it to test the guys attitude, and the result was one that BOTH players should be pleased with. The OP doesn't sound like a "bad guy", the Officer sounds a bit 'power hungry'...neither is wrong...just different enough that this was for the best for both. Further drama was the ONLY thing that would come from this exchange...best bet was to end it quick...which the Officer did.

[TUXs]

Both of your posts . . . . . . . .

 

. . . . . Are true and totally valid!

 

Now, can we get a group hug and abandon this thread already?

 

/sage

(c'mon /sage, work already)

 

/huggles

[AMulls]

It became drama when he said "...reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginary hierarchy on a VIDEO GAME, it doesn't make them better than me." - the rage is tangible in his reply.

 

Why deal with a guy like that? Rank means nothing, I TOTALLY agree with him...but the attitude expressed like that is reason enough to boot his ***...I don't deal with drama and if some twerp wants to play interweb tough guy, I'd boot him too. Somebody else can deal with his drama or he's free to start his own guild where he can set any rule he likes.

 

I always enjoy threads with TUXs. On the rare occasions that I get involved, he and I always seem to have cordial discussions, even when we disagree. Sometimes we disagree, and sometimes I agree with him 100%. It works, because we both behave ourselves and respect each others opinions, even when we try to argue against them.

 

That said, my question to you is this: if you're new to a guild, having joined two days ago, and having run some world bosses the night before (where there was some minor swearing), and you see someone in the guild getting reprimanded for using profanity, what do you do? OP has said that he didn't know about a profanity rule, and given that he had witnessed some profanity the night before while running with the guild, it's a reasonable assumption that there was not a strict one in place. And when someone complains about the profanity (again, OP said he didn't realize it was an officer at the time), he was just defending his guildmate over the issue.

 

Sure, his phrasing might not have been the best. But when the officer in question responds with "Did you seriously just tell an OFFICER to turn on his profanity filter", I would say that is where the attitude begins. And where many of us see the Napolean complex coming out. OP's response, again probably not the wisest, was still understandable. At least to me. He thought he was standing up for a new guildmate, based on his knowledge of how things worked, and got the "I'm an officer, don't question me" attitude. He then responded in kind, and stood up for himself.

 

The drama could have been completely avoided if the officer had handled the situation in a much more appropriate manner. And to say that it was clear the OP was a drama queen and it's better to get rid of him quick is a little off base. This was one incident. And he came to the defense of a guildmate after what he believed based on reasonable assumptions, was an asinine request. Unless defending a guildmate is causing drama.

 

In my experience, the folks that always rage against drama and claim to constantly try to curtail it, are the biggest offenders in the group.

[TUXs]

I always enjoy threads with TUXs. On the rare occasions that I get involved, he and I always seem to have cordial discussions, even when we disagree. Sometimes we disagree, and sometimes I agree with him 100%. It works, because we both behave ourselves and respect each others opinions, even when we try to argue against them.

 

That said, my question to you is this: if you're new to a guild, having joined two days ago, and having run some world bosses the night before (where there was some minor swearing), and you see someone in the guild getting reprimanded for using profanity, what do you do? OP has said that he didn't know about a profanity rule, and given that he had witnessed some profanity the night before while running with the guild, it's a reasonable assumption that there was not a strict one in place. And when someone complains about the profanity (again, OP said he didn't realize it was an officer at the time), he was just defending his guildmate over the issue.

 

Sure, his phrasing might not have been the best. But when the officer in question responds with "Did you seriously just tell an OFFICER to turn on his profanity filter", I would say that is where the attitude begins. And where many of us see the Napolean complex coming out. OP's response, again probably not the wisest, was still understandable. At least to me. He thought he was standing up for a new guildmate, based on his knowledge of how things worked, and got the "I'm an officer, don't question me" attitude. He then responded in kind, and stood up for himself.

 

The drama could have been completely avoided if the officer had handled the situation in a much more appropriate manner. And to say that it was clear the OP was a drama queen and it's better to get rid of him quick is a little off base. This was one incident. And he came to the defense of a guildmate after what he believed based on reasonable assumptions, was an asinine request. Unless defending a guildmate is causing drama.

 

In my experience, the folks that always rage against drama and claim to constantly try to curtail it, are the biggest offenders in the group.

 

Thank you

 

I agree 100%!!! This is NOT how I would have handled it...the Officer sounds like a d-bag...but it's his guild to do as he wishes. "I" would have replied with "It's not a matter of using the filter, I'm just trying to tone it down to keep the guild chat 'friendly'"...not "IM UR BOSS" /chestpound...

 

Again, it was a situation that was going to lead to more conflicts and more drama...best bet was to nip it in the bud...it will be better for BOTH players long term imo

 

edit...just to be clear, I may have responded the same way, or worse tbh, to the overbearing officer...the OP didn't do anything "wrong", just "wrong" in the context of who he said it to...which worked out well for both players. Officer feels like he eliminated a scumbag from the guild, OP gets to post about this almighty officer on the forums for us to all mock and find a new guild that isn't so hung up on 'ranks'

Edited September 20, 2013 by TUXs

[Andryah]

That said, my question to you is this: if you're new to a guild, having joined two days ago, and having run some world bosses the night before (where there was some minor swearing), and you see someone in the guild getting reprimanded for using profanity, what do you do?

 

1) IF something concerns you, particularly with regard to something from an officer stated or did, you take it to private chat with the officer. If that does not resolve it, you take it to private chat with the Guild Leader at the earliest possibility

 

2) you DO NOT make it a public drama in the guild chat.

 

Being publicly dramatic in the face of any guild leader <------ this is very likely why the player was booted. Nothing good can come from this.. and it is the equivalent of internet anarchy. The player disrespected the position of rank and the guild... because he wanted to pick a fight with an individual wearing the rank. If a player has no respect for ranks of authority in a guild.. better to be guild-less, or find an anarchy-rule based guild (there are always some).

 

Ranks exist in guilds, NOT to empower virtual dictators (as has been alleged by some of you). Ranks exist to bring structure and organization to group of players with in the guild. Ranks are an extension of the Guild Leader. You either accept them, or you move on. Not all guilds are right for all people.

 

Most guilds make removal actions by committee discussion FOR ESTABLISHED PLAYERS. These same guild very often practically auto-boot new members who cause issues within a few days of joining the guild. No reason to put up with trouble makers and drama....no matter the context. A lot of guilds flat out have a stated (or unstated) probation period of a 7 to 30 days where you are subject to dismissal, even without cause. The OP was not a member of this guild long enough for any consideration by committee review IMO.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Andryah

[SoyChulo]

Did you whisper the officer about turning on the profanity filter or did you call him out in gchat?

 

That would make all the difference from my viewpoint.

[SoyChulo]

1) IF something concerns you, particularly with regard to something from an officer stated or did, you take it to private chat with the officer. If that does not resolve it, you take it to private chat with the Guild Leader at the earliest possibility

 

2) you DO NOT make it a public drama in the guild chat.

 

Being publicly dramatic in the face of any guild leader <------ this is very likely why the player was booted. Nothing good can come from this.. and it is the equivalent of internet anarchy. The player disrespected the position of rank and the guild... because he wanted to pick a fight with an individual wearing the rank. If a player has no respect for ranks of authority in a guild.. better to be guild-less, or find an anarchy-rule based guild (there are always some).

 

Ranks exist in guilds, NOT to empower virtual dictators (as has been alleged by some of you). Ranks exist to bring structure and organization to group of players with in the guild. Ranks are an extension of the Guild Leader. You either accept them, or you move on. Not all guilds are right for all people.

 

Most guilds make removal actions by committee discussion FOR ESTABLISHED PLAYERS. These same guild very often practically auto-boot new members who cause issues within a few days of joining the guild. No reason to put up with trouble makers and drama....no matter the context. A lot of guilds flat out have a stated (or unstated) probation period of a 7 to 30 days where you are subject to dismissal, even without cause. The OP was not a member of this guild long enough for any consideration by committee review IMO.

 

Probably the first time I've seen a post of Andryah that I've agreed with but this is absolutely spot on. Players that feel the need to come into a guild and "lead a revolution" are gkicked with the quickness.

[curtkram]

Did you whisper the officer about turning on the profanity filter or did you call him out in gchat?

 

That would make all the difference from my viewpoint.

 

the officer called out a different guildy for using profanity in guild chat. the officer chose to make it a public discussion instead of whispering the person they thought was abusing guild rules.

 

separating the officer and OP was fine, and in the end this guy will be better off not in this guild. however, if this guild wanted to prevent further drama like this from happening, it should be pointed out that kicking the OP didn't solve the problem. kicking the officer out, or at least knocking him down to a regular member, might help prevent further problems.

[oaceen]

Both of your posts . . . . . . . .

 

 

 

. . . . . . Are true and totally valid!

 

Now, can we get a group hug and abandon this thread already?

 

 

/sage

(c'mon /sage, work already)

 

they're also basically saying the same thing lol

people will really argue anything just to argue on the forums

[casirabit]

the officer called out a different guildy for using profanity in guild chat. the officer chose to make it a public discussion instead of whispering the person they thought was abusing guild rules.

 

separating the officer and OP was fine, and in the end this guy will be better off not in this guild. however, if this guild wanted to prevent further drama like this from happening, it should be pointed out that kicking the OP didn't solve the problem. kicking the officer out, or at least knocking him down to a regular member, might help prevent further problems.

 

We also only have his version of what happen. We have no idea exactly what the officer said. Do we really know if the officer said what was stated here?

 

I would use caution before making a judgment based on one side of the evidence. I am not saying that the officer didn't use poor judgment, based on the OP's views, but until we know all the facts we cannot know for sure what the officer said.

 

The officer could have very well said what OP said but then again the officer may not have stated what was said.

I have never ran into an officer in a guild that acts like that. The guild I am in the officers don't act like that so based on my experience I don't see an officer acting like that. Again this is based on my experience, not anyone's else.

 

I would think reserving judgment in this case is warranted as we only have one side of the story.

Edited September 20, 2013 by casi