Why does this game receive so much hate?

[GalacticKegger]

I agree, and you wanting Star Wars does not preclude you from wanting something more than what this game offers. You have every right to complain about the poor way they do things in this game.

There is a difference between "They suck" and "Doing this could maybe help fix what I think sucks". The first example illustrates a toddler peeing the carpet to get attention. The second example illustrates adult constructive criticism.

BTW, STO is nowhere close to SWG in mechanics. People who tell you it is have never played at least one of them.

SWG was pretty good until JTL. Space missions crashed in my quarters and aerial combat had targets glitching in and out constantly. After 9 months of fighting through published workarounds to complete them I left.

Also, EA is doing nothing to encourage the players to stay for the long term. They're F2P / cash shop model focuses on convincing free trial players, who play the game often enough to warrant the savings that a subscription offers, that they'd be better off subscribing. (Changed that for you.)

http://www.swtor.com/free/features. As an early access subscriber, EA/Bioware has done nothing to dissuade me from playing for the long term. SWTOR has more content after 21 months than WOW had after 2 years. Special events happen so often that keeping up with them all can be a huge challenge - especially on multiple toons. Fortunately rep is legacy rep which helps. All advanced content and gameplay options are included as part of the subscription cost. If I want to go anywhere in the game, or do anything in the game, I simply go there or do it.

 

Is the game perfect? Nope. But perfect will never happen in a video game let alone an MMO. I get it. Too bad more don't.

If any mmo has ever been half-assed, this one is the king of them.

Um ... okay ... Edited September 22, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Blackardin]

Dont worry, I'll make it very simple for you. There are no links to any "promises". There are plenty of statements where they said what they planned to do. Some of those plans worked out, and some didnt. And some of the ones that didnt were their own fault, and they deserve the criticism for those. But that still doesnt magically change their "plans" into "promises".

 

Even simpler. In the course of my work I often have to give estimates of the "high and Low" for suggested, or additional work or corrections. From that point on, when the customer speaks of the work, they always defer to the low end price, even if their wishes far exceed that estimate and the work that it was related to.

 

Much the same occurs with envisioned "plans" that are extrapolated and promulgated into law as "promises", by the same tendencies of customers.....and then when said plans fall though, the assumed promise is tossed back at the seller as a subversive act.

 

I would contend that if it is not entirely, it is an aspect of human nature....but does not equate to any "evil" done by that seller unless definitive proof is produce that can establish conclusively, that alleged promise.

[Blackardin]

SWTOR has more content after 21 months than WOW had after 2 years.

 

This is a very astute point, but as my example above demonstrates, the tendency of people, especially customers, is to defer to the best case scenario for them, and the most negative vision of the seller should that scenario not play out as envisioned in their mind.....which often includes the omission of some very valid factual data.

[RodneyMcNeely]

Two words: Electronic Arts. I dont hate the game, but that is the answer to your question.

 

There. I fixed it for you.

 

[WoLFpwr]

Go onto any MMO's forums and you can ask the same question.

 

^

Its the MMO gaming generation , you cannot satisfy them they are burned out and have no souls.

[LordArtemis]

I think this statement is both inaccurate and a distortion. I grant that it does reflect your opinion however, as you have been consistent in that regard.

 

Fair enough, Ill try to explain what I meant, as I think you and I agree more than you think in this respect.

 

This statement speaks to the failure to understand their target audience for the game, and the grandness of that particular failure. It was a mighty failure IMO because they tried to do what they felt would please that target audience and instead did quite the opposite.

 

I did not mean to indicate the game itself was a complete and utter failure...quite the contrary. I usually only indicate that it likely did not meet expectations, and I believe my favorite statement is "fell flat on it's face"...which I think it did.

 

I have tried to mention what I feel are other contributing factors to the subscription decline over time, before the launch of F2P. I would include what I mentioned above, a declining market at the time, normal player attrition, a general lack of polish and missing modern MMO features, unreasonable expectations from potential gamers and most of all...what seemed like empty servers for far too long.

All of those conditions contributed to the decline. Even Bioware admitted publicly that they did not understand how quickly folks would burn through content, and that comment demonstrates, IMO, a complete lack of understanding that is silly at best...the market contains far too many examples of how quickly hardcores burn through content.

 

And Bioware did not exist in a vacuum.

 

This is their first MMO, and they get a pass from me for finally making the lions share of the changes to the game that most casuals requested back in beta. I think the removal of most of the original crew that was resistant to those changes was the key, and the game today is vastly superior to the product it was at launch.

 

So this comment was speaking to only the failure to understand their playerbase and what they wanted in this game...the reasonable expectations. Not the overblown ones that likely no one could have provided.

 

Here is a list of just some of those likely expectations that I find reasonable.

 

A robust appearance system.

A BF2 style space combat feature.

Alternate gameplay features like those offered in KotOR, card games and turret play.

No forced companion use.

Real meaningful relationships with companions.

Expected modern MMO features, like a working GTN, group finder, etc.

The importance of things like active worlds, emotes, chat bubbles, open worlds, weather and day/night cycles.

PVP that would consist of more than small group battles.

End game that would provide real visual proof of completion.

A F2P or hybrid system that offered some kind of market to provide secondary content.

The desire for folks to play on servers that are full or at least populated.

 

That comes from active lists I have seen across the net, and here in beta, as to the games major flaws at launch.

 

So, to be clear, many MANY factors, most out of Bioware's control contributed to the games population decline, but the failure I speak of pertains to the lack of understanding how their players would react to certain design decisions they made.

 

Had they had a better understanding of their target audience, as they seem to do now, the decline, if any would not have been as harsh as it was IMO....not to mention that any likely decline would not mattered as much had they used a hybrid system from launch.

Edited September 22, 2013 by LordArtemis

[norlof]

This is a very astute point, but as my example above demonstrates, the tendency of people, especially customers, is to defer to the best case scenario for them, and the most negative vision of the seller should that scenario not play out as envisioned in their mind.....which often includes the omission of some very valid factual data.

 

This is true. Gamers will only accept nothing less than a perfect game. A 10/10 on all sites. If its less than that, then its thrown out the window as trash. Gamers are the worst at expectations

 

And honestly, I don't get why SWG is praised as better than sliced bread. Sure, a few things were done better, but it was a buggy mess and really wasn't that great. I realize that's my opinion though.

[mmjarec]

Nobody expects a perfect game but most do expect balance and them to keep their word. Which they havent done. And then there are those that will thing everythi g bioware does is amazing so they dont count

[mitchsts]

because it had so much potential, bioware did a terrible job. i come back to the forums sometimes and laugh at the decisions they make.

[mmjarec]

Disagreeing with decisions is not being a hater or a troll. Attacking people whose opinion differs from yours does.

 

One majn reason people are angry is because back when people did give tons of creative critisizm bioware ignored it and implimented something that makes no sense and/or that ppl dint want to begin with.

 

Ive seen way better ideas come from the community than bioware that promptly get ignored. Im not saying implent everything. Im saying take into consideration and impliment the most feasible good ideas instead of ignoring them

 

Also things irk ppl when they seem to be clueless or horribly waste their time and effort on one thing and then another thing they neglect gets implimented and is junk and screws up more things

 

Like for me its the cantina events. It would be cheaper and more efficient to just have more forum responses and direct contact with forum goers than throw some even that nearly nobody attends and seems to be full of flash and pomp that accomplishes nothing more than say look at me. Its like buying a four cylinder ferarri. Sure looks great but under the hood is a mess

Edited September 23, 2013 by mmjarec
Xkdk

[CosmicKat]

True that ... if the stated perception was actually intended as an insult. In my experience here, it's the same dozen or so people who seem compelled to retaliate with regularity. For me, an insult would have to be a personal attack. Everything else is opinion imho.

 

I couldn't really care or be bothered to check but I would conservatively estimate that 50% of all hyper-positive posts on this forum are made by a single account.

 

There are some others that are consistently hyper-positive, but not many and they generally disappear after a few months (as do most users of any stripe).

[Arkerus]

I couldn't really care or be bothered to check but I would conservatively estimate that 50% of all hyper-positive posts on this forum are made by a single account.

 

There are some others that are consistently hyper-positive, but not many and they generally disappear after a few months (as do most users of any stripe).

 

You can't check and that assumption is beyond absurd.

 

The whole "company paid poster" thing is blown way out of proportion.

 

The day you prove your completely ridiculous assumption is the same day I eat a shoe.

[Glowrod]

For me, I think they did an absolutely horrible job designing the GTN. It's far worse than anything else I've seen, But people have been complaining about it since release and there really hasn't been any significant effort to fix it.

This is incorrect, they did. Twice. The first time went pretty well, but the second one... not so much. It broke it for some time and people spit fire and venom until they finally fixed it. It seemed like months, but it was only a couple of days I think.

 

The issues I have with the GTN are still there. I don't count efforts to fix show-stopping bugs as significant. The problem is that is a horse-**** interface that's extremely clumsy and difficult to use. For example, when I list something, as soon as I drop my item to sell into the sell tab, I should immediately see all items currently listed, from cheapest to most expensive, based on unit price, not stack price. But I don't. Instead, I have to switch to the buy tab and spend several minutes doing manual research to try to see what things are currently being listed for, scanning every single item on every page, using a search interface that is just gross. Something that should take about 5 seconds takes the better part of 5 minutes.

 

But this is just one thing. It seems that everything that comes out of BW/EA is a half-assed piece of crap. It's almost as if the people working there never played an MMO before they started on SWTOR and have no clue how one is supposed to work. That's the part that makes me a sad panda.

[ImpactHound]

You can't check and that assumption is beyond absurd.

 

The whole "company paid poster" thing is blown way out of proportion.

 

The day you prove your completely ridiculous assumption is the same day I eat a shoe.

 

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that could be accumulated. Obviously it's not a crime, but it's shady.

 

Personally, I'm more bothered by the people who are obviously NOT on the payroll that blindly defend anything and everything, and then whenever there's a developer thread, they post directly to that employee and address them by first name as if kissing up to them personally is going to get a response. I hate snivelling weasels.

[Arkerus]

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that could be accumulated. Obviously it's not a crime, but it's shady.

 

Personally, I'm more bothered by the people who are obviously NOT on the payroll that blindly defend anything and everything, and then whenever there's a developer thread, they post directly to that employee and address them by first name as if kissing up to them personally is going to get a response. I hate snivelling weasels.

 

Please post the circumstantial evidence. I would LOVE to see it.

[ImpactHound]

Please post the circumstantial evidence. I would LOVE to see it.

 

I guess this is one of those times I should have all my stuff "on the Cloud." Check back tonight, at least after 8 EST.

Edited September 23, 2013 by ImpactHound

[Xsorus]

That's an easy answer. For anyone who this is not their first MMO, this is a terrible MMO design.

 

MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online

 

Bioware makes a wonderful singleplayer game with the best voice acting in a game yet with a wonderfully complex, detailed and engaging storyline.

 

But that's it. Nowhere do you get the "massively" part. Aside from begging for help on a few quests that I couldn't finish on my own, I've NEVER played with another human being. There's no reason to unless you're a nice guy and don't mind going out of your way to help someone with their quest. There's no reason to team up because the story is very very linear and the chances of you being on the same spot in that line is very very low.

 

PVP is totally broken from what I hear so the only other chance of using "multiplayer" is out the window.

 

I guess they got the online part right. Pay $15 a month to play along side other people enjoying a very wonderful single player game or engage in one of the worst FTP models on the market that form like pop ups in a browser so it's so annoying, you want to pay just to get rid of it. Oh, and once you pay, don't ever think about going FTP unless you like losing currency.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like what is here and I'll happily plunk down some money every now and again to enjoy this game, but know that the hate is not totally unwarranted. It's not an MMO in my eyes.

 

Umm, Ok I've played a lot of MMO's (been playing since UO), and for anyone out there to begin to claim SWTOR has no reason to group cracks me up....Cause you clearly haven't bothered grouping it seems.

 

SWTOR is the only game in a very very long time to actually reward grouping more the soloing. When the game came out, I lvled up with 2 other friends, We did nothing but the Heroics and the Main story Quest, and we skipped entire WORLDs of quests...This XP you get for doing those Heroics is absolutely stunning in comparison to just running the fetch quest every time. This allowed me when i lvled alts, to actually do those quests and have them be new. In fact..I didn't fully see most of the content while leveling till I was on my 3rd Toon.

 

SWTOR problem is it has a lot of butthurt SWG players who can't move on from that rotten game (and it was rotten..One of the worst MMO's i've played to date). Its also got the other problem of having Developers who blatantly lied about features.. As much as I like bioware games, and SWTOR as a game..Bioware bloody lied about some things.

 

For example.. Illum and Outlaws den, they sold both of those as something they weren't. There is on way they could of not played both of them in testing and not figured out that they were uplayable due to lag. No way what so ever..Which means they went for it anyway to grab what few Warhammer Online players were left.

 

SWTOR would of been far better off if they simply didn't have illum as the start, and simply focused on their strong area of PVP, which was Huttball, instead of adding more god awful versions of Civil War playstyle.

[mmjarec]

Whats the point of posting evidence when you will just continue to make excuses for booware just like hallens everytime someone brings up valid facts. It just gets argued with nonsense and personal attacks. Ie trying to redefine the meaning of the word lie

[CosmicKat]

You can't check and that assumption is beyond absurd.

 

The whole "company paid poster" thing is blown way out of proportion.

 

The day you prove your completely ridiculous assumption is the same day I eat a shoe.

 

I never accused anyone of being a "company paid poster".

 

I don't even care if they are. It would be the company's right to do so, if they wanted. The only thing that would annoy me if that were a true accusation is why they pay someone to attack their customers instead of paying someone to communicate with them.

[ImpactHound]

I never accused anyone of being a "company paid poster".

 

I don't even care if they are. It would be the company's right to do so, if they wanted. The only thing that would annoy me if that were a true accusation is why they pay someone to attack their customers instead of paying someone to communicate with them.

 

When you put it that way,it really does sound absurd. Anything a CM posts is going to be scrutinized by both his superiors as well as the community so there's actual work involved, according to the old social media temp positions, there was very little supervision, and they're trusted to just "spread the good word" and just had to submit something like 3 sample screenshots a day of what they were doing.

[CosmicKat]

When you put it that way,it really does sound absurd. Anything a CM posts is going to be scrutinized by both his superiors as well as the community so there's actual work involved, according to the old social media temp positions, there was very little supervision, and they're trusted to just "spread the good word" and just had to submit something like 3 sample screenshots a day of what they were doing.

 

The official reps rarely post and when they do it is almost always pure PR.

 

If they posted a lot more, and with a lot less PR spin, people would not jump all over them when they do post something.

[ImpactHound]

The official reps rarely post and when they do it is almost always pure PR.

 

If they posted a lot more, and with a lot less PR spin, people would not jump all over them when they do post something.

 

I agree.

 

Ghostcrawler's a douche, but he answers questions fairly and addresses things in a timely manner, not to mention other CMs for different game elements or D3's. I criticized Blizzard getting on Twitter and was dismissive of it when they started, but it's really grown on me.

[CosmicKat]

I agree.

 

Ghostcrawler's a douche, but he answers questions fairly and addresses things in a timely manner, not to mention other CMs for different game elements or D3's. I criticized Blizzard getting on Twitter and was dismissive of it when they started, but it's really grown on me.

 

Straight answers are always better than spin. Even if you totally disagree with the answer, or you think it's rude, at least they had the courtesy to give an answer instead of pandering or completely dodging the issue, as we see here all the time.

[LordArtemis]

They have come a long way toward addicting casuals to this game by adding tons of market content and allowing it to be sold on the GTN. This helped quite a bit toward the games overall appeal to casuals IMO.

 

That said, the only real way to shake the negative mantra this game seems to have based on it's form at launch and the behavior of the original dev staff is to work to add features that further draw casual players.

 

Minigames are the key to that future IMO...the SSSP is one of those special additions, and if done right might entice casuals into PVP play, which will be quite an accomplishment.

 

I think the lack of focus on making your starship a home is a mistake. That is a huge draw to casuals IMO...not to mention something that burns a ridiculous amount of time in game if done correctly.

 

Also, too much of the early content of the game remains gated behind required group participation....and this results, in my experience, in folks just plain skipping the content. The ability to use companions to fill the group is needed for heroics, and all heroics should become dailies when completed.

 

Finally, every color available now in dual sets should be added to single color primaries or secondaries as craftable and drop items, and all restrictions should be removed if possible from Orange armor and dye slots added.

 

All of this, IMO, would go a long way toward addicting casuals to this game, which is the key to it's success and a change to how it is perceived by the masses.

[Rasen]

They have come a long way toward addicting casuals to this game by adding tons of market content and allowing it to be sold on the GTN. This helped quite a bit toward the games overall appeal to casuals IMO.

 

That said, the only real way to shake the negative mantra this game seems to have based on it's form at launch and the behavior of the original dev staff is to work to add features that further draw casual players.

 

Minigames are the key to that future IMO...the SSSP is one of those special additions, and if done right might entice casuals into PVP play, which will be quite an accomplishment.

 

I think the lack of focus on making your starship a home is a mistake. That is a huge draw to casuals IMO...not to mention something that burns a ridiculous amount of time in game if done correctly.

 

Also, too much of the early content of the game remains gated behind required group participation....and this results, in my experience, in folks just plain skipping the content. The ability to use companions to fill the group is needed for heroics, and all heroics should become dailies when completed.

 

Finally, every color available now in dual sets should be added to single color primaries or secondaries as craftable and drop items, and all restrictions should be removed if possible from Orange armor and dye slots added.

 

All of this, IMO, would go a long way toward addicting casuals to this game, which is the key to it's success and a change to how it is perceived by the masses.

 

Agreed on all points. I have found that the perception of this game has in fact improved. Now that doesn't mean it is beloved. People still bash it, but now people actually do defend it many being newer players who joined post F2P.

 

SSSP is a huge deal for me because I do believe it is going to be a huge draw for the game. I really believe that EA and Bioware probably made a plan for how the game should proceed in preparation for Episode 7. Episode 7 is a Day of Reckoning for EA and Bioware. Because when that movie starts being hyped up and reignites old fans' passions for Star Wars along with adding a new generation this game MUST be prepared for the tidal wave that is sure to come along with any other Star Wars game(Battlefront 3).

 

The game's PvE must be streamlined and easy to follow. PvE Progression must make sense and not be a complicated affair. Currently I feel they succeeded there. You build up basic comms alongside elite and ultimate. Three tiers of progression.

 

The game's PvP must be accessible and rewarding. Players must feel like they can compete and that the more they PvP the more rewards they get. Bolster accomplished the competitive part. The rewards part is a failure as of today. It's why Rep should be added to PvP and constantly be increased and added upon. It's why warzone comms should not only provide new gear, but new cosmetic items.

 

The game's space combat must have engaging cooperative and competitive gameplay. This is a total toss up right now, but it seems like Bioware is working on that and if accomplished will add another layer of accessibility and fun for new and old players.

 

Bioware must also consider that many new casuals will eventually become hardcore as many other players have. An MMO lives and dies on how many hardcore players it can create exclusively for itself. WoW thrived because they always had a crowd that stayed and played the game and even when leaving would always come back.

 

The game's hardcore PvE must offer challenging gameplay and rewards to go along with it. Hard Mode is a good stepping stone for casuals to begin their transition to hard mode. Nightmare is the end goal and the rewards it provides have been good with the latest raids.

 

The game's hardcore PvP must emphasize skill and commitment and in turn the subsequent rewarding of skilled players and committed players. Ranked Arenas can serve as a good transition area due to the solo queue for casuals to begin becoming hardcore, but 8v8 Ranked warzones do need to return as the nightmare mode of PvP. No bolster, no solo queue. Strictly a high stakes battle between the most elite and with it great rewards to go with it in the form of tournaments, leaderboards and other prizes. Most importantly Ranked Warzones needs cross server functionality for it to thrive.

 

The game's hardcore players in general will still need other activities to entertain them. SSSP being consistently improved upon alongside the continuation of class stories via expansions and a possible revamp to crafting and legacy making both worthwhile and deep in scope. Mini games in the form of pazaak and swoop racing.

 

I believe this is what Bioware might be planning and I'd imagine their goal for all of this is by the end of next year. Because when Episode 7 comes out this game better be ready...