The State Of PvP ( Warzones ) - Brackets Desperately Needed!

[AkihiroKytori]

It is not an insult to point out that someone is reverting to lobbing insults againsed someone because they have a different opinion than the one they hold. It is simply stating a provable fact. Stating that I must suck because I believe the game is unbalanced in this element however is a textbook example of insulting someone. It achieves nothing and detracts from an intelligent conversation.

 

People keep either insulting the skill of any one who voices an opinion like my own, or they say there is nothing wrong with it and tell the person they shouldn't enjoy this element of the game.

 

Stating that there is no issue when people have experienced how unbalanced the matches can be due to gear and abilities, says to me that you have your opinion and you aren't going to change it. Which is fine, but again there doesn't need to be hostility in this conversation. We all have differing opinions on this matter, and I hope that bioware will look at all of our feedback and balance the warzones a bit to make sure its enjoyable for the majority.

 

On the topic at hand, we have to agree to disagree, when a new player or a older player who rolls a new toon, cannot enjoy an element of the game. The element of the game is broken.

 

Some classes arent "elite" until higher levels. There exists a challenge, as so many people have been saying being rolled by a team of 40+'s presents. If your class has shortfalls at certain levels, you can learn to work around them.

 

When you have no chance at all, it becomes pointless. Thats apples and oranges.

Edited December 22, 2011 by AkihiroKytori

[Repefe]

I can fight lvl 50ties with my 20 something scoundrel ... so I don't care.

[Sabbathius]

I don't know what the big deal is.

 

If you come up against a premade using voice comms and playing as a team, you will lose as a PUG. Doesn't matter if you are level 40s and they're all level 20. Or vice versa. Level is irrelevant in this scenario. I saw a team with three level 50s get stomped by a team that was mostly 13-19, with some 30-35s mixed in.

 

If it's PUG vs PUG, then the rules of chance apply. Most of the time, both teams would have some 40s, some 30s, etc. It should balance out, even without brackets. Yes, on occasion you will get unlucky. But even if you lose, you usually can still get very decent XP/credits/comms.

 

I really don't see the need for brackets. Leveling in this game is ludicrously easy and quick anyway, within a month most people will be 50 anyway, and the question of levels will be a moot point once more.

[Nyxypet]

I don't know what the big deal is.

 

If you come up against a premade using voice comms and playing as a team, you will lose as a PUG. Doesn't matter if you are level 40s and they're all level 20. Or vice versa. Level is irrelevant in this scenario. I saw a team with three level 50s get stomped by a team that was mostly 13-19, with some 30-35s mixed in.

 

If it's PUG vs PUG, then the rules of chance apply. Most of the time, both teams would have some 40s, some 30s, etc. It should balance out, even without brackets. Yes, on occasion you will get unlucky. But even if you lose, you usually can still get very decent XP/credits/comms.

 

I really don't see the need for brackets. Leveling in this game is ludicrously easy and quick anyway, within a month most people will be 50 anyway, and the question of levels will be a moot point once more.

 

Doesnt matter if its premade on voice vs. premade on voice and both teams are experienced at pvp and have won tons of games before... they were stuck against all 40+... its the 40+. These excuses for why not to bracket seem so fluffy to throw anything at the Devs of why to let people continue to have an easy way of credits.

 

Why does everyone think that ALL people will be 50 soon... there will continously be new people joining this game, continuously be new characters made so dont tell me everyone will be 50 by the end of the month.

 

So then the next excuse... "dont pvp if you suck and cant cut it" "dont pvp till 50"

Both are moot points. If thats your excuse then you should have NO PROBLEM having brackets if you want everyone to wait till 50 anyways. Lets take away your rights to pvp till you are all 50 and see how happy you are. Its basically the same thing all the lvl 50's that are enjoying ganking lower levels are saying but trying to be shifty about the mater. If you want people to wait till 50 then there is NO REASON to not bracket. It achieves the same thing. I dont want to hear how it hurts the queues cause apparently there are so many of you at these levels according to everyone.. you get instant queued almost!

 

I keep hearing the same excuses that just dont hold up. No one is admitting that: "HEY!!!! I am a lvl 50 and I am abusing the broken pvp system!!!! AND ITS AWESOME!!" Dont change a thing devs!" Because... that's basically what everyone with an excuse is thinking on the inside... but cant say outwardly because they are afraid of the backlash, afraid that their easy buttons will go away. Please just be honest really. There lvl 35+ people I know that are quite upset with the system because they DONT enjoy picking on lower levels just to self serve. They want a challenge. They come right out and say that the system is broken... and yes they do enjoy ganking, yet its still broken. At least be honest with yourselves instead of giving excuses that can't hold up over and over. Its broken flat out broken. The only people that dont, are the ones that wont admit that they are enjoying easy mode pvp.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Nyxypet

[Sadix]

If you think you get owned in bolstered PvP have fun fighting a level 29 as a level 20 with no bolster. You will die 100x faster.

[CapC]

Do you honestly think the non inclusion of brackets was an oversight by the dev team?

 

SPOILER:

 

It wasn't.

[Dreadspectre]

I'm not sure what all the QQ about bolster is, I actually had BETTER stats with bolster on at level 15 than I do now at lev 27. I'm wearing way better gear, crafted blues/purps etc and I have about 1k less HP now and my armor % has also dropped.

 

Low levels do just fine, I did. The only difference is classes who get CC later on, like my Jugg who had NOTHING until level 24. Now I am much more useful in games of Huttball but overall my damage/surviability is no better than it was before when I was low level.

[Arethel]

Anyone that thinks warzones vs. level 50's isn't broken right now IS a level 50. It's broken and it's broken bad. I play on a PVP server - I pretty much only play MMO's for PVP - and it is very very very broken.

 

You guys act like it would slow queue's down if you bracketed it out - it won't. You don't think games like WOW didn't work all thist stuff out years ago? This isn't the only game on the block you know -it's the new kid. It's called cross-server-queue's ..... probably IMPROVE your queue time. I'm guessing it is the way it is because they ran out of time and rushed the game out the door after a retarded-long dev period of doing who knows what. Period.

 

It's frustrating and I hope they fix it.

[MajesticCrawdad]

Anyone that thinks warzones vs. level 50's isn't broken right now IS a level 50. It's broken and it's broken bad. I play on a PVP server - I pretty much only play MMO's for PVP - and it is very very very broken.

 

You guys act like it would slow queue's down if you bracketed it out - it won't. You don't think games like WOW didn't work all thist stuff out years ago? This isn't the only game on the block you know -it's the new kid. It's called cross-server-queue's ..... probably IMPROVE your queue time. I'm guessing it is the way it is because they ran out of time and rushed the game out the door after a retarded-long dev period of doing who knows what. Period.

 

It's frustrating and I hope they fix it.

 

This. Agreed with most of the above as well, nothing more fun than a couple 50's pvp'd up to ruin your day.

[AkihiroKytori]

If you think you get owned in bolstered PvP have fun fighting a level 29 as a level 20 with no bolster. You will die 100x faster.

 

No one said bolstering was bad. It was mearly stated that we would like bracketing of some sort so the level 40+'s arent owning a team with 1 or less 40+.

 

Do you honestly think the non inclusion of brackets was an oversight by the dev team?

 

SPOILER:

 

It wasn't.

 

I am quite sure the devs considered bracketing and decided againsed it for the time being. However, it is an MMO and the DEV TEAM themselves stated that this game will never be "done" as far as they are concerned.

 

I'm not sure what all the QQ about bolster is, I actually had BETTER stats with bolster on at level 15 than I do now at lev 27. I'm wearing way better gear, crafted blues/purps etc and I have about 1k less HP now and my armor % has also dropped.

 

Low levels do just fine, I did. The only difference is classes who get CC later on, like my Jugg who had NOTHING until level 24. Now I am much more useful in games of Huttball but overall my damage/surviability is no better than it was before when I was low level.

 

Its been stated that 10-35 or so works, its challenging and fun. However a level 11 getting stomped and getting no exp because the other team is full of 40+'s is not a working scenerio, unless you believe you are entitled to practicly free exp, creds, and PvP gear?

 

Yea how I feel, while I laugh at the crybaby's posting a new we need Bolster thread every minute of the day.

 

"My butt hurts, I need to rage on the forums!"

 

Yea that ^^ ..

 

Ive pointed out multiple times that bashing people because you dissagree is a sign of a weak argument havent I? The point of these forums is to have peer discussion. Insults aren't part of that, and I am quite sure if you take a look at the ToS for the forums as well as the game, insulting people is againsed it.

 

I obviously need to point out a simple fact. No one is saying get rid of bolstering. We are saying break up the warzones a bit so that lower levels have a chance. However these statements aren't a solution in any way:

 

1. "You Suck"
   
2. "You Don't Know How To PvP"
   
3. "You're Whining"
   
4. "You're ( Insert Explicitive Here )"
   
5. ect.
   

 

If you truly believe that your in the Majority in thinking that it isnt unbalanced if not busted, google "SWTOR PvP Unbalanced" Take a look at how many people are talking about this issue, see how many agree that its unbalanced.

 

Oh and in reguards to:

Low levels do just fine, I did. The only difference is classes who get CC later on, like my Jugg who had NOTHING until level 24. Now I am much more useful in games of Huttball but overall my damage/surviability is no better than it was before when I was low level.

 

If you did it a few days ago, then yes. You are correct in your statement that it wasn't bad. However, the teams wernt stacked full of 35+'s with good gear then. There was some, but people had not had the time to quick grind up to level 40+ en mass. They have now, which is why the issue is very noticeable.

Edited December 23, 2011 by AkihiroKytori

[InvalidError]

/Sign

The Game need Bracketed PvP Matches.

[Apium]

I still don't understand why people are complaining about this. The system tries to group people who are around the same level. Once there are a decent number of level 50s queuing, the level 50s will just be playing against level 50s. As a level 40+, I've noticed that most of my matches during prime time have been with only level 30-50s.The bolstering isn't ideal, but without battlegroups its a decent solution to long queue times.

[Nyxypet]

Heck even 35-40s arnt bad most of the time. its over that when its just insane.... unless its an entire team of 35-40 and you're stuck on a team of under 20's thennnnnnnn its a bit difficult but not impossible. its the 40+ really... been watching to see when its impossible vs. challenging.

 

 

Bracket it so the 40-50s can stop telling people "they want a challenge" Not sure how challenge = ganking. but nice try But seems a bit backwards...

 

Oh but wait, you present logic of to why that excuse doesnt work and we get another excuse... "Oh oh but, listen if you suck at pvp then just wait till 50 or dont pvp at all because its obviously your fault." Also backwards because if you really think everyone should wait till 50 to pvp because they are getting ganked... then you really shouldnt care if it gets bracketed anyways because you get exactly what you want... 50 against 50... because thats just what was said.

 

Oh oh but wait... there has to be another excuse around here somewhere to jump on board with... And the cycle continues... but once you shoot down the excuse... no one can come back and say why their excuse DOES work when you tell them why you dont think it does. They switch excuses or resort to calling names.

 

We need solutions guys not denial and harassment.

[Darth_Precursor]

/signed

[sithjunky]

to all you people saying screw brackets....maybe most people like playing warzones rather then farming crap from them. the main thing is to have fun with them really...

[Nyxypet]

I still don't understand why people are complaining about this. The system tries to group people who are around the same level. Once there are a decent number of level 50s queuing, the level 50s will just be playing against level 50s. As a level 40+, I've noticed that most of my matches during prime time have been with only level 30-50s.The bolstering isn't ideal, but without battlegroups its a decent solution to long queue times.

 

Ummm then you have been just lucky. What you just described is called bracketing... which it is not bracketed. The levels are all over the board. There are no long queue times, I dont understand how this could be an excuse people are using. There WILL be long queue times when everyone gives up because 40+ think its awesome and their right to gank. ANd with the new testing of pvp... from what im reading, a bunch of 50s could all queue at once with a buddy that's lvl 10 and hey look power leveling! Why increase the experience and credits to abuse a broken system? Even better reason for everyone against brackets to contentiously use the same excuses but never re-support how their idea actually are viable.

[HoundofCulann]

I still don't understand why people are complaining about this. The system tries to group people who are around the same level. Once there are a decent number of level 50s queuing, the level 50s will just be playing against level 50s. As a level 40+, I've noticed that most of my matches during prime time have been with only level 30-50s.The bolstering isn't ideal, but without battlegroups its a decent solution to long queue times.

 

 

Really? Because I've not noticed such a thing happening at all. If I pay attention, half the time I get tossed into a Warzone the level of players on both sides runs the gambit from 10 to 50.

 

But everyone here has a valid point, well most of you do anyway.

 

• Yes Bolster helps greatly but it still does nothing for a player's gear. The player with the better gear will most likely walk away victorious.

 

• With such gaps in level differences, higher levels are always going have the advantage. Not just with gear but with the amount of skills at their disposal, the amount of training points they have to put into their trees, and their gear.

 

• PvP requires some skill and some getting use to. But a level 15 paired up with a level 40 on the other team is just going to learn how quickly she can get stomped unless that level 15 has back up.

 

 

Various different factors apply here to the experience each of you are getting from PvP but it's clear to me that there's nothing really balancing out PvP. Bolster only does so much and not every player is a beast on the battlefield. If not brackets, something needs to be done to balance out what Bolster does not.

[Yvus]

Well, i don't see the point meeting level 40s when you're 12, spells differences etc. It's all lazy battlegrounds really.

[Apium]

Gabe Amatangelo:

 

Warzones will have a dynamic matchmaking system. It will do many things, like attempt to balance the number of queued groups, healers, levels, etc. on each side. If a match is not made after X minutes then it will begin to alleviate some of these preferences, including potentially widening the level range.

 

If a match with a wide level range happens to launch, then the lower level players' stats and ability ranks are bolstered. We aim for this to bring all players to at least 80% of the highest level players' combat effectiveness, player skill withstanding.

 

Promoting a lively PvP community is one of the PvP team's core goals. We believe enabling players on a server to play together often will promote camaraderie as well as rivalry, which lends itself toward achieving that goal.

 

That being said, as with many things, the matchmaking protocol is subject to change with testing, feedback and metrics.

 

Hope that helps clear it up.

 

Maybe it isn't valid anymore, but on the other side I've only seen anecdotal evidence when there clearly aren't enough high levels queuing to have warzones with only high level players.

[Repefe]

Well, i don't see the point meeting level 40s when you're 12, spells differences etc. It's all lazy battlegrounds really.

 

Funny thing is 10-50 warzones are more balanced than 10-14 BGs in WoW for example yet ppl still QQ how unbalanced they are.

[flappaWHAT]

ITT: I hate losing, please make PvP easier!

 

that is all

[Springj]

It's a load of garbage complaining about being a lower level up against higher levels, I started doing them on my BH yesterday as soon as I was lv10 & my first match I had 32 kills & 3 deaths and I was up against level 30+ players, so stop complaining it's the way you play not your level that counts. I have a screen shot btw of my stats at the end of the match if someone can point me in the direction I am happy to post it

[Lidasel]

Simply make two brackets:

lvl 10-49 and lvl 50

 

The expertise-stat on lvl 50 pvp gear is just way to OP if you cant get it as lvl 10-49.

[EternalFinality]

The real problem that no one seems to ever address (or simply "counters" with some garbage meme response like l2p) is that bracketing is key not just to put people of the same level and abilities together, but to put people of the same experience and SKILL together.

 

When you are playing the game for the first time, even if you've played MMOs before, you have no TOR pvp experience at level 10, so there is no way you should be matched with a level 50 player who's been playing the game for months, and if the level 50 has any competitive spirit, he doesn't want to be matched with the level 10 newb either. This is true not just in an MMO but pretty much any online game with matchmaking. People get better faster by playing people around their own skill level, and people are more likely to have motivation to learn to become better when they aren't pounded into the ground by someone who knows what they're doing.

 

Yet Bioware seems to think that the only thing that is important is that "everyone has a chance to win" which is why a level 10 character can do just as much damage and have just as much HP as a level 40. They completely neglect the skill and experience factor and I think that's a terrible mistake.

[Neroxyths]

one word : Twinks.

 

they are level 10, they have the best gear money/crafting can provide, load of tor pvp experience and are waiting for waves of newbs to stomp in the 10-19 bracket etc. With the current system and considering that people will get to know the game better no twinking will ruin pvp. did you consider that this might be the reason no brackets were implemented?

Edited December 24, 2011 by Neroxyths