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Quarterly Producer Letter for Q2 2024 ×

My Ode to `DPS Tanks`

monkeydud

By monkeydud
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monkeydud

monkeydud

Posted
Posted

Ahem.. after my hilariously bad HM Battle of Illum...

 

Oh yeah I,m really great and I'm really tough

I can Take on 30 mobs cos 20 ain't enough.

 

I can run around this Flashpoint without any healing,

Whats that noise you say ? Why it's all the Eilte Mobs squealing !!

 

I'm so awesome I dont need to stay near the Tank with his stupid 30 metre guard,

I'm gonna mess up all these mobs cos they are in ma yard !

 

What's that you are QQ ing? `Oi ! Let me Tank` ??

As far as I'm concerned thats total WA.. Rubbish !!

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Qvasar

Qvasar

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Although it may not be the case here, 9/10 times this happens the DPS isn't tanking by choice...

 

Pretty much every single time I queue with my sentinel on LFG the following happens:

  1. The tank has 10k less HP than I and has no idea what he is doing;
  2. The tank guards the healer;
  3. Every add pull the tank bashes endlessly on some elite while every other mob chases the healer around;
  4. Every boss pull I grab aggro in the first 10seconds, I drop it and am back tanking 15secs later all the way through the end of the fight;
  5. Flashpoint/Operation ends and tank is still not aware he wasn't tanking.

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Icebergy

Icebergy

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Posted
Although it may not be the case here, 9/10 times this happens the DPS isn't tanking by choice...

 

Pretty much every single time I queue with my sentinel on LFG the following happens:

  1. The tank has 10k less HP than I and has no idea what he is doing;
  2. The tank guards the healer;
  3. Every add pull the tank bashes endlessly on some elite while every other mob chases the healer around;
  4. Every boss pull I grab aggro in the first 10seconds, I drop it and am back tanking 15secs later all the way through the end of the fight;
  5. Flashpoint/Operation ends and tank is still not aware he wasn't tanking.

 

Part of being a good DPS is knowing how to manage your threat.

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LydMekk

LydMekk

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Although it may not be the case here, 9/10 times this happens the DPS isn't tanking by choice...

 

Pretty much every single time I queue with my sentinel on LFG the following happens:

  1. The tank has 10k less HP than I and has no idea what he is doing;
  2. The tank guards the healer;
  3. Every add pull the tank bashes endlessly on some elite while every other mob chases the healer around;
  4. Every boss pull I grab aggro in the first 10seconds, I drop it and am back tanking 15secs later all the way through the end of the fight;
  5. Flashpoint/Operation ends and tank is still not aware he wasn't tanking.

 

So much this... :(

 

I have been "tanking" on 4 of my dps chars the last days several times over running sub 50 FPs.

 

Assassins seems to be the biggest culprit class the last days, running With DPS stances, undergeared With very low HP, can't aoe taunt for ****, often not specced for tanking AT ALL and I do mean no talents selected in the tank tree.

 

My Sorcs, AP PTs, Jugg and Operative DPSs get a run for they're tanking Money...and the ignore list keeps growing...

 

At this point I am very much surprised when zoning in and seeing I actually have been grouped With a real tank who knows his job.

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Qvasar

Qvasar

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Posted (edited)
Part of being a good DPS is knowing how to manage your threat.

This is pretty impossible when you are in full Kell Dragon and the tank is in 66/69, doesn't guard you, and doesn't time his taunts.

 

Instead of posting threads about how much you hate "bad tanks"...

 

...why don't you just play a Tank...so then you won't have anything to complain about?

 

Could say the same about the tank who posted a thread about bad DPS...

Edited by Qvasar
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Jeweledleah

Jeweledleah

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Posted

so the other day, I was pugging HM Taral V on my just hit 50 sage healer. tank was lvl 52, sentinel was lvl 55.

 

tank pretty obviously have been i na flashpoint before, because he skipped all the skippable mobs. sentinel had other ideas. I don't even know why, i mean he's 55, credit drops are meh and its not like its leveling him or anything, and they weren't needed for the bonus either. he went out of his way to get every single mob in a place, staying behind for it. oh, his hitpoints were 10k higher than the tank. (35k ish) but the thing is... no defensive stats. even at 55 in a lvl 50 flashpoint, he was dropping pretty darn quickly. hitpoints are not everything, my friends.

 

tank understandably left. Merc dps and I just rolled with it (it was late, it was taking a while to get replacement tank and I just wanted to get my daily done), I got my Irreso out to make healing slightly easier on myself , but they asked... how come tank left? so I explained.

 

Tanks you see, sometimes they actually like to tank. not all tanks are incompetent. and its extremely frustrating when dps make your job far harder and more tedious than it should be. i told them, that if I were taking it? I would have been annoyed and left too.

 

if you want to tank? please roll and spec tank. if your tank is losing mobs? then sure, be a nice person and pick them up, see maybe if you could give tank a pointer or several.

 

but please. do not assume from the start that you have a bad tank (btw, even good tanks sometimes start out with guarding a healer - just too gauge which dps might need it more, or to shut up certain healers who think that all guards belong to them) and at least try to be a team player. every once in awhile.

 

its pretty fascinating and kinda sad, seeing people continue being surprised at my sentinel/marauder not being annoying in flashpoints when I do play them. people are so used to dealing with overeager "dps tanks" its not really a good thing.

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Leafy_Bug

Leafy_Bug

Posted
Posted (edited)
Although it may not be the case here, 9/10 times this happens the DPS isn't tanking by choice...

 

Pretty much every single time I queue with my sentinel on LFG the following happens:

  1. The tank has 10k less HP than I and has no idea what he is doing;
  2. The tank guards the healer;
  3. Every add pull the tank bashes endlessly on some elite while every other mob chases the healer around;
  4. Every boss pull I grab aggro in the first 10seconds, I drop it and am back tanking 15secs later all the way through the end of the fight;
  5. Flashpoint/Operation ends and tank is still not aware he wasn't tanking.

 

 

 

You have very high expectations from a group finder tank when your sentinel is almost full 75 if not full 75. I can't remember exactly but you also play combat and that spec is asking for face tanking. Add to that that the majority of group finder tanks have no gear and you will be tanking the whole flashpoint.If by some miracle, I get a pop on my sentinel, I expect to tank bosses. I also let the tank pull and leap 5 seconds after hoping he manages to get threat. If the tank has decent gear and knows what he is doing, i will go combat, if he has no clue, I will stay watchman.

Edited by Leafy_Bug
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Qvasar

Qvasar

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I'm pretty much full 75 and do play combat mostly, but... Since thy changed the threat modifier on tanking stance way back on patch 1.something even a 66 geared tank should be able to keep aggro against a 75 geared DPS. It's not a matter of gear. It's all about timing your taunts as I time my force camouflage.

 

But you are correct in saying that when I get a group finder tank I expect a real tank that knows his class and has an idea of the others. If I see this I will do my best to work with him, and not against him. However if I see a clueless player that selected the tank role/tree just "because" I don't even bother. And to be honest I've had a few healers thanking me for pretending to be the tank.

 

You can find bad players on all roles, the problem is that most tanks think they are the flashpoints/operations leader by default, and fail to realize this isn't always the case.

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Icebergy

Icebergy

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Posted (edited)
This is pretty impossible when you are in full Kell Dragon and the tank is in 66/69, doesn't guard you, and doesn't time his taunts.

 

Tanks set the ceiling. Obviously a tank with better gear/skill sets a higher ceiling than an undergeared new tank, but its part of your job to get as close as you possibly can to that ceiling without going over it.

Edited by Icebergy
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Qvasar

Qvasar

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Posted
Tanks set the ceiling. Obviously a tank with better gear/skill sets a higher ceiling than an undergeared new tank, but its part of your job to get as close as you possibly can to that ceiling without going over it.

 

As I said, if the tank problem is gear I will adjust. But if the problem is a tank thinking he is super-pro and doesn't do one thing right I will not self-nerf. In fact I will do everything in my ability to knock him off his pedestal.

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Lumpyone

Lumpyone

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I love bad tanks when I'm on my healer. And bad groups in general for that matter. If I get a full group where everyone is doing what they are supposed to I get really bored.

 

^^ This.

 

I was on my DPS Smuggler and we got a fairly new Shadow tank on HM Mando Raiders. This was right after I was in a group with a Vanguard DPS calling himself a tank and was screaming the healer heal him as he kept dropping and died in 2 trash pulls (he was in all dps gear).

 

Anyway, the Shadow had the courtesy to tell us he was rather new to tanking so myself and the healer were helping him out with boss fights, position, etc. We did well and didn't wipe until The Boarding Party bosses because the tank didn't understand he had to keep the 2 melee bosses in the spot designated. He kept trying to engage the 2 ranged bosses so it was just ugly. But we got it straightened out and the rest of the FP was clean.

 

It was more of a challenge and its why I love GF when finding players who 1) Listen and open to instruction and 2) there are others who like to help players learn to play. Yeah, its not for everyone but this is an MMO. I've played all the roles in the game, feel I know enough to get the job done for each role in most situations and like to help. However, getting those who are a bit underleveled or undergeared when the rest of us are suitable or more than geared adds some challenge in an already easy game, so long as they are willing to work as a group and listen to constructive, helpful suggestions/comments.

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Hyfy

Hyfy

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Part of being a good DPS is knowing how to manage your threat.

 

But he has the mad DPS skills. He can throw down 100k in damage in seconds you can't possibly expect him to slow himself down and watch what he's doing to avoid taking aggro.

 

 

Just in case it wasn't completely obvious, that was filled with just a little bit of sarcasm there. But you are absolutely right.

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