Darkness PvP Build

[Aragost]

That was the main reason I responded to this post DarkKitten... People are telling you that your basically playing bad because you cannot win this match up when in essence you are the one with the disadvantage in this fight. Evolixe can say whatever nonsense they want but the fact is once your shroud is over you will eat our reck. crits. The Harnessed Darkness procs can be countered with Overload, Electrocute, Force Shroud, and Force Cloak. Even vs fully geared Tank sins my mauls crit for 7k+.... Your mitigation and Dps is not high enough to keep up especially below 30% HP. I don't play darkness but I can see if my friend Turrican wants to do some duels to show how the fight plays out. No promises on how quick I can pop out a vid since I been playing FFXIV 2.0. ^^;

 

Bastion 1v1 tournament, final fight

 

Watch that, and tell me that if the arena was an area without LoS waka would have definitely won.

Then explain the first two losses to me.

 

Most people agree darkness has the tools to win 1v1 Vs deception, Personally I think that darkness has a slight advantage, but at a high skill level, it comes down to a competition between the players, the difference is small enough to be easily ignored. By saying that deception has a huge advantage, you're showing that you simply don't know darkness as well as you think you do.

[Elyna_]

So your basing your argument on a duel tourny with 2 assassins without knowing their talent spec in a pve setting? Name a wz node that doesn't have an area to los... If you watch their duel you can see how Waka is overloading when his opponent is not even casting the HD lightning which is Bad.

 

If you want to see a real comparison the duel should be on ilum with wz stims/adrenal and bolster which plays a factor in prolonging the fight and your dps not being able to keep up. This tourny didn't show or prove anything as its far from a wz setting.

 

I didn't mean deception can steam roll it as the fight can sometimes be close, but when people say things that I have proven otherwise vs top dueling tank sins I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. (these duels took place with no los) The skill and reaction time of the player is the most important factor.

[Aetrus]

So your basing your argument on a duel tourny with 2 assassins without knowing their talent spec in a pve setting? Name a wz node that doesn't have an area to los... If you watch their duel you can see how Waka is overloading when his opponent is not even casting the HD lightning which is Bad.

 

If you want to see a real comparison the duel should be on ilum with wz stims/adrenal and bolster which plays a factor in prolonging the fight and your dps not being able to keep up. This tourny didn't show or prove anything as its far from a wz setting.

 

...Are you slow or have you just never been to Outlaw's Den before? PvE setting? You can use both WZ medpacs and WZ adrenals there, which they were using. And Waka was obviously 36 points Deception (Voltaic Slash is being used.) Grez was obviously 36 points Darkness (Wither is being used.) The exact details of the talents are preferential.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Aetrus

[Aragost]

I'm basing my opinion from what I know of the specs having played all 3 assasin builds fairly regularly over the past 18months, not from one video. That was just the closest video to hand showcasing my point.

 

You've made it clear you don't know what you're talking about in the rest of that post. The guy above me summed it up nicely, not much else to say.

[Elyna_]

@Aetrus no I never go to Outlaws Den as no bolster exists in that zone. The way my gear setup is I'm using full Pve Weapon mods/hilt and matrix cube which brings my expertise down to the 1700's. Inside warzone/Ilum my expertise is 1946 which is a huge gap and why I would not fight at such a disadvantage. Most sins stack willpower instead of power which is not necessary and why I crit higher than most on physical attacks. I've dummy tested fully augmented willpower augs vs power and I noticed a difference. If you prefer having a slight increase to crit over more physical dmg thats up to you. If you originally stated the fight can go 50/50 I would have never bothered to post lol. You/Evolixe/Shinarika act like it should never be beat by deception when thats 100% false.

 

The comment I made about spec/talents plays a part as most Deception sins never put 2 points in Insulation which in a wz/1 vs 1 boosts your survival as opposed to the minimal dmg increase in thrashing blades. My armor rating without Insulation is 2999 and Dmg Reduction 19.64. With Insulation Armor Rating is 3899 and Dmg Reduction 23.78%.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Elyna_

[LadyDarkkitten]

Well I watched the link video above, but I dont really see whats going on. I can see the stuns and overloads, but ye.. might as well be watching american football or cricket. No idea why the healths are dropping like that or what they are using when, not least as its shown from 3rd person. When I watch duels on TRE I focus one and target the other so I can see buffs, procs etc.

 

I still dont see how tankasins can take a deception, but never mind. I'll stop asking now. I've found I can kill operatives and thats alot of fun.

 

Edit: Im useless for my primary role of node guarding as the 3 people most likely to attack me 1v1, I lose to the carnage mara and the deception sin. I've changed tactics now and I guard healers in the scrum. Very ineffective and not what I was designed for, but hey thats why I wont be a tankasin when I get geared.

Edited September 23, 2013 by LadyDarkkitten

[CmdrCD]

Hey guys, evoike and elyna. Ive been asking for a sin v sin guide for awhile, asked xinka on her youtube channal, asked around the forums. This is pretty much the one match up I lose 100% unless Im fighting someone terrible who really doesnt know what they are doing.

 

Crit auto pushs shield and absorb off the combat table so a big part of the mitigation is gone when they Reck>discharge/shock you for 33% of your health pool. Thats just the opener and it goes down hill from there. Wither doesnt hit hard enough to cause pressure and if they are smart they save some resolve to screw up your harnassed darkness casts and GG.

 

If the two of you (or anyone else for that matter) would spend 5 minutes of your time, just walking through how to deal with this encounter it would be an ENORMOUS help to me. You both seem pretty confident you know what your talking about. Will...will you help?

 

Hey there, Darkkitten

 

I wanted to take some time to write you a detailed guide on how you should handle sin vs. sin fights.

 

Basically, there are 3 factors that will decide the outcome of the fight: Gear, Spec and player skill. That means that regardless of how good the first 2 factors are, you still need to be competitive in the 3rd part in order to achieve victory - and that you can only get through tons of practice, so I suggest you duel as much as you can with a slightly better player before moving on to harder opponents.

 

For the spec, I use this (running in dark charge with a DPS modded shield):

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/11/?build=022330001121020000000000000000000322230021112032001022000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

It combines the best possible 1v1 defense from talents while maintaining a high burst capability. Force management is horrible but the nature of the sin duel is that they are quick and deadly and do not require a prolonged force regen.

 

For the gear, I do gear towards full power over crit because I rely on my energized shocks for burst that are 100% crit already. I do have 1 enhancement with accuracy that gets me to 94.97% which is enough against most classes. But against sins it could be higher due to the higher defense.

 

Now lets assume both sins start out in stealth. If ur opponent is full deception then you have the advantage in stealth detection and getting the opener. Regardless of who gets opener you should have placed your phasewalk at the beginning.

 

Scenario 1: You get the opener

 

Abilities to use: Spike, into low slash, cast crushing darkness, follow up with your 4 sec stun that will white bar him.

Why spike? 3 reasons:

- It adds another 600-800 dmg to your opener.

- It makes ur low slash always hit (incapacipated target has 0 defense).

- it adds another attack that might proc duplicity for maul.

 

Now at this point there are 3 things that can happen as a reaction to your opener.

1 - he could eat the full opener risking to eat a ton of damage depending on your procs.

2 - he could break the stun and shroud off the dot part of crushing darkness.

3 - he could phase walk away in the moment you cast the crushing darkness, neglecting a big part of your opener.

 

In case of number 1: You have a great chance of winning but can't use your vanish to sap/regen later on.

In case of number 2: You are still a bit ahead in the fight and should immidiately use the following abilities: Force shroud and deflection (to prevent low slash and stun). Also you can Sap/regen later on in the fight when his resolve resetted.

In case of number 3: It is pretty much mid game from this moment on and you still want to follow up with ur stun once he's in range unless he shrouds very early.

 

Scenario 2: You lose the opener

 

There are several ways to lose an opener, I am going to list the in my opinion best course of action for each.

 

1. He simply attacks with a range ability to get you out of stealth.

Reaction: Be quick and low slash him before he can use another ability. Then proceed as if you got the opener.

 

2. He saps you in stealth, starts crushing darkness cast.

Reaction: Phase walk away, basically resetting the stealth game - during stealth, always make sure to have dark ward up and use your sprint whenever it is up.

 

3. You get spiked or low slashed or both.

Reaction: best action would be to phase walk immidiately, however especially in WZ fights this might not always be an option. In that case you can either low slash as soon as you are able to act, or use the breaker when white barred followed by shroud and deflection and start doing some damage to him.

 

------------------------------

Mid fight general guidelines:

You have many defensive cds, use them all but do not overlap them too much:

- dark ward: should be up at all times

- shrould and deflection: these have a great synergy and make u nearly immune for a few seconds

- overcharge saber + warzone adrenal: 40% dmg reduction for 15 seconds + 15 % heal: this is a great way to counter deception assassin burst

- darkswell: makes sure to get the maximum 24 seconds from this effect over the course of the fight

 

At the same time, observe his cds and react acordingly:

- when he shrouds: use low slash and melee attacks.

- when he deflects: use force attacks.

- when he uses both: use your own cds to even it up - for ur attacks, use melee exclusively for the duration of shroud, saber strike if ur low on force and trash if you are high on force.

 

A few more general things:

When you try to vanish-sap, make sure to have 50+ force to make it instant and also make sure to use it after he used an ability between global cooldowns to not accidently get stuck in combat.

Against deception, when you know he stiil has his breaker, it might be wiser to not use vanish at all because it resets his recklessness another time.

 

Sorry for the long post, I tried to make it as readable as possible. And remember that only practice helps you to get better.

 

Regards

[Xeraz]

Turrican, you're too kind.

[Xethis]

I wanted to take some time to write you a detailed guide on how you should handle sin vs. sin fights.

 

Basically, there are 3 factors that will decide the outcome of the fight: Gear, Spec and player skill. That means that regardless of how good the first 2 factors are, you still need to be competitive in the 3rd part in order to achieve victory - and that you can only get through tons of practice, so I suggest you duel as much as you can with a slightly better player before moving on to harder opponents.

 

For the spec, I use this (running in dark charge with a DPS modded shield):

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/11/?build=022330001121020000000000000000000322230021112032001022000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

It combines the best possible 1v1 defense from talents while maintaining a high burst capability. Force management is horrible but the nature of the sin duel is that they are quick and deadly and do not require a prolonged force regen.

 

Hey bud, I think the advice you give for this spec is pretty sound. I have a slightly different spec with a different play style that also works well vrs Deceptions Sins and Maras.

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/11/?build=022331001120003000000000000000000322230021102030221002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 With this spec run full DPS gear. I made a video recently showcasing how to double discharge and in that vid I used 12-31-3 spec, so this is a slight variation of that.

 

With this build, I don't open with Spike as it will consume a Reck charge. However you can open with Low Slash if you like, or I actually been opening with Spike or Maul, and follow up with Low Slash, 95% of the time Low Slash goes off before I get noticed or cc'd. But just like how you described, by doing that I have a good chance at having an Energize or Duplicity proc. From here unleash Hell with your double Discharge and big Shocks. If it is single target, then use your Double Discharge first so both will crit, if there are multiple targets then you want to Shock first then Discharge so the aoe part of your Discharge won't consume all your Reck charges.

 

The advice you gave on using your cc's and countering opponents cc's is pretty solid. I practice the same techniques with this build.

 

After your opener your opponent should be well below 50% health and hopefully you are winning the cc battle. At this point your force regen from Blood of the Sith talent is going to carry you through the end of the fight. Just basically spam Thrash for Energize procs and nuke. Use your defensive cd's as needed. Where this spec really shines is when you get 2-3 energize procs right in a row, taking down healers is so easy when this happens.

 

Now, with this spec we have the Electric Ambush talent, so when you Vanish/Sap, or Vanish Spike, you get a reset on Reck. I like to use this when I have an Energize proc so I can immediately send off a huge Shock.

 

Instead of countering burst with the defensive spec, you can out burst Deception and Maras with this spec. Both are viable. Both shine as you get top tier gear. Anyways, sorry this was so long I tried to keep it short, and I hope this helps.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Xethis