20 bucks for a one use dye, REALLY?

[Andryah]

People pay a subscription to access and participate in said game. The constant nickle and dimeing by EA/BioWare to things that many other games provide as due part of the subscription is what makes me upset, I image others as well.

 

Ah yes.. the ever popular "we subscribe and we are getting nickeled and dimed to death anyway" argument... along with .. "other games don't do this" role playing as victim.

 

By all means then..you are the consumer.. you should consume what pleases you.. not what displeases you. And since there are other games that don't displease.. you have choices right?

 

Seriously.. walk your talk IMO.

 

Personally.. I do just fine using dyes available inside the game. I am particularly fond of a number of the player crafted dyes and the CE Black/Yellow. But that's me. I realize I have choices and I take advantage of them.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Andryah

[CosmicKat]

I would say something else if I could....

 

The game launched in a state that some folks seemed to find unacceptable. The solution to that was to vote with their feet, which they did in a resounding way. The game lost...I don't remember exactly now, I used to know the correct range but I believe it was 750k to 1.4 million players in less than a year.

 

Approximately 3/4 of the playerbase voted with their feet (speculative, naturally there could have been a wide array of reasons, including normal attrition). Then, and only then, did the game begin to transform into the game that it is today, for better or worse...much wider appeal, most of the draconian restrictions gone.

 

The two biggest ways you can send a message to those you wish to hear it...vote with your feet, vote with your wallet.

 

It is my hope, of the two, you choose the latter.

 

It lost roughly 2 million subs in less than 6 months. If you exclude those who bought it but never subscribed, then it lost roughly 1.5 million.

 

To my knowledge, EA has only vaguely inferred they had somewhere around 500k subs maximum at any time since. The had also acknowledged dropping significantly below 500k prior to F2P. Their post F2P press release either said they had dropped to 250k, and the revenue of CM doubled that to the equivalent of 500k... or the numbers were 500k and 1M, depending how you interpreted the press release. Guess somewhere in between.

[LordArtemis]

It lost roughly 2 million subs in less than 6 months. If you exclude those who bought it but never subscribed, then it lost roughly 1.5 million.

 

To my knowledge, EA has only vaguely inferred they had somewhere around 500k subs maximum at any time since. The had also acknowledged dropping significantly below 500k prior to F2P. Their post F2P press release either said they had dropped to 250k, and the revenue of CM doubled that to the equivalent of 500k... or the numbers were 500k and 1M, depending how you interpreted the press release. Guess somewhere in between.

 

Do you remember the rate of decline? If I remember right it was a pretty steady loss rate, and I think folks were saying the game should have launched with 1.2 in place...but I can't remember exactly.

[CosmicKat]

Do you remember the rate of decline? If I remember right it was a pretty steady loss rate, and I think folks were saying the game should have launched with 1.2 in place...but I can't remember exactly.

 

I'm not really sure. Nothing they ever released was ever specific, as far as I know.

 

P.S. I think the bottom fell out somewhere in that first summer. The numbers of players nosedived in the couple of months prior to the 10-1 server merges.

Edited September 7, 2013 by CosmicKat

[Reno_Tarshil]

I took a break shortly after the first merge.

[Vis-Tecum]

Their post F2P press release either said they had dropped to 250k, and the revenue of CM doubled that to the equivalent of 500k... or the numbers were 500k and 1M, depending how you interpreted the press release. Guess somewhere in between.

 

or you can not try to spin it and report the actual statements they made

 

Monthly average revenue for Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare's massively multiplayer online role-playing game, has more than doubled and subscriptions have increased since adopting the free-to-play model last year, Electronic Arts president of labels Frank Gibeau revealed in an earning's call today.

 

Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million

 

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/7/4309866/star-wars-the-old-republic-revenue-doubled-free-to-play

 

your negative spin and false facts only take 1 google search to disprove

[SammuelSK]

So the price bothers you just because it bothers you.

 

It must be exceptionally hard to actually follow a thread. I have yet to complain once about the price, I have in fact stated that I wouldn't not mind paying twenty dollars for the dye, if I felt I was actually being offered something worth twenty dollars.

 

What would make the dye worth twenty dollars? Adding it to the collections page, and letting me use it on any piece of armor that single character on which I bought it on receives going forward. Other games already use similar systems, games that also sell things on their cash shop, such as dyes. This makes Bioware's attempt feel like a complete and total rip off. If you are literly going for the worse option on the market, out of a multitude of other games then yeah, you deserves your customers ire.

[branmakmuffin]

It must be exceptionally hard to actually follow a thread. I have yet to complain once about the price, I have in fact stated that I wouldn't not mind paying twenty dollars for the dye, if I felt I was actually being offered something worth twenty dollars.

It must be exceptionally hard to grasp the concept of "perceived value" as opposed to "inherent value." It it's worth $20 to someone else, then it is irrelevant what it is worth to you.

 

What would make the dye worth twenty dollars? Adding it to the collections page, and letting me use it on any piece of armor that single character on which I bought it on receives going forward. Other games already use similar systems, games that also sell things on their cash shop, such as dyes. This makes Bioware's attempt feel like a complete and total rip off. If you are literly going for the worse option on the market, out of a multitude of other games then yeah, you deserves your customers ire.

If it's not worth 2000 CC to you, don't buy it. Seems your position is well established in your mind. So what's the issue for you?

[Cernow]

It must be exceptionally hard to actually follow a thread. I have yet to complain once about the price, I have in fact stated that I wouldn't not mind paying twenty dollars for the dye, if I felt I was actually being offered something worth twenty dollars.

 

What would make the dye worth twenty dollars? Adding it to the collections page, and letting me use it on any piece of armor that single character on which I bought it on receives going forward. Other games already use similar systems, games that also sell things on their cash shop, such as dyes. This makes Bioware's attempt feel like a complete and total rip off. If you are literly going for the worse option on the market, out of a multitude of other games then yeah, you deserves your customers ire.

 

^^ This. Exactly this.

 

Dyes being rare and/or expensive is not the problem. The problem is that they are single use. The high cost attached to them makes it a complete disincentive to look for new armour models on the CM, or to gain new chest armour models from packs, or to chase after new reputation chest armours, or to chase after new operation, flashpoint and PvP chest armours.

 

Once players have their 2000cc dye slotted they are not going to be changing their chest armour in a hurry. Sure some whales will, but for most players once they slot an expensive dye they are unlikely to change their armour. Stagnation.

[SammuelSK]

If it's not worth 2000 CC to you, don't buy it. Seems your position is well established in your mind. So what's the issue for you?

 

As does yours. As someone who seems completely alright with Bioware's stance on this why exactly are you in this thread? Bashing customers who don't agree with Bioware's policies and sidetracking the discussion doesn't seem to actually be accomplishing anything, so what is your stake in this? What do you actually wish to accomplish beyond being involved in an argument with someone who's 'position is well established '?

 

I have yet to actually see anyone actually respond to any of the points brought up before. And I suspect this is exactly how this thread will continue. Any comments that have merit to the actual discussion are ignored, and the thread devolves into name calling. Someone questioning a badly implement, badly designed system that is obviously set up to take advantage of its customers brands them a 'whiner'.

 

We've already established, about 50 pages ago, that we weren't going to buy the dyes at twenty dollars, not the way its been currently implement. It'd be nice you all could catch up with the actual conversation.

[Ratajack]

As does yours. As someone who seems completely alright with Bioware's stance on this why exactly are you in this thread? Bashing customers who don't agree with Bioware's policies and sidetracking the discussion doesn't seem to actually be accomplishing anything, so what is your stake in this? What do you actually wish to accomplish beyond being involved in an argument with someone who's 'position is well established '?

 

I have yet to actually see anyone actually respond to any of the points brought up before. And I suspect this is exactly how this thread will continue. Any comments that have merit to the actual discussion are ignored, and the thread devolves into name calling. Someone questioning a badly implement, badly designed system that is obviously set up to take advantage of its customers brands them a 'whiner'.

 

We've already established, about 50 pages ago, that we weren't going to buy the dyes at twenty dollars, not the way its been currently implement. It'd be nice you all could catch up with the actual conversation.

 

Actually, you have claimed that you will not be buying any of the dyes.

 

It remains to be seen how many will actually buy the black/clack and white/white dyes at the current prices.

 

While I have no plans to spend 10 or 20 dollars on a dye, I would be willing to bet a good sum that there will be plenty of people who will spend that kind money.

[CosmicKat]

or you can not try to spin it and report the actual statements they made

 

Monthly average revenue for Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare's massively multiplayer online role-playing game, has more than doubled and subscriptions have increased since adopting the free-to-play model last year, Electronic Arts president of labels Frank Gibeau revealed in an earning's call today.

 

Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million

 

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/7/4309866/star-wars-the-old-republic-revenue-doubled-free-to-play

 

your negative spin and false facts only take 1 google search to disprove

 

Uhh yeah you totally got me... well other than the fact that the press release said pretty much exactly what I said.

 

And other than the "1.7 million new players" blurb, which in itself is pure spin that uses "players" instead of "accounts", two entirely different things.

[Arkerus]

It lost roughly 2 million subs in less than 6 months. If you exclude those who bought it but never subscribed, then it lost roughly 1.5 million.

 

To my knowledge, EA has only vaguely inferred they had somewhere around 500k subs maximum at any time since. The had also acknowledged dropping significantly below 500k prior to F2P. Their post F2P press release either said they had dropped to 250k, and the revenue of CM doubled that to the equivalent of 500k... or the numbers were 500k and 1M, depending how you interpreted the press release. Guess somewhere in between.

 

What a surprise, CK is making up numbers again.

 

Subs never dropped to 250k. If it did, find it and prove it.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Arkerus

[proudsingledad]

I'm not going to quote anyone.

 

Take it this way... I'm an Old PC gamer. I've gone from MUDs and MUSH's and grown with online gaming for.. well.. decades. I keep up despite my age and experience.

 

I hate reading forums. Why? It's what used to be known as "Flames Wars".

 

I read through this thread. I had to get up and walk away a few times. One of the things that makes me sick is games buckling to the vile verbose. one of the worst comments I read equated to "If some people are willing to pay it then stop whining" followed by more comments intended to incite and inflame.

 

The original question is realistic and the key point here. WHY should anyone that wants to play this game (or any with a similar business model) want to shell out that much R/W cash for a one shot use item?

 

The "Flame" arguments FOR doing it boiled down to "if you don't want to shut up or go away". This type of person has been encouraged in MMO's for well over a decade by the fact that those that are tired of getting the shaft and being abused by Flames when they post their concerns seemingly get ignored. They kill their subscription and go somewhere else. The Flamers feel justified, vindicated and other offensive reactions that the forums seem to support. If it was said I missed it.. but the better argument for them would have been "Don't spend the $20 for the one use dye til you use it on your end game gear" but people were too busy being nasty in true decades long Flame Wars fashion.

 

Let them. I'll play a game until It's no longer enjoyable. I don't mind a thriving IG store. I'll wait. I won't pay that much R/W cash for something as silly as a one shot use item. I've outplayed and out lived more games than most. Killing off the IG Cartel market and then grabbing quick cash as a business model? We'll see. Folks can say what they want. A minority of gamers are willing to shell out large amounts of cash. Most aren't and if the business model doesn't change then they stop playing the game.

 

I play a game for the GAME. An IG store offers perks. Some I'm willing to pay for sometimes if it's worth it to me. The original intent of this thread (and others of the same vein) seem to all express a common point. They chose one item that shows a potential greedy business model and voiced credible objections and were subjected to the "slings and arrows" of the Flame War mind set. If the game can make cash with a continuance of catering to the Flamers willing to prove the old adage of Someone with more money than sense" then more power to them. I won't be in it. Have fun paying through the nose Flamers and enjoy what's left of a VERY different game.

 

We'll see. 15 year of statistics have proven over and over that those scream the loudest and longest get their way because the reasonable calm folks just quietly leave and take their money elsewhere.

[CarpeSangrea]

We'll see. 15 year of statistics have proven over and over that those scream the loudest and longest get their way because the reasonable calm folks just quietly leave and take their money elsewhere.

 

Having gotten my own online gaming start in the days of tolkien and wod based mud's, I have to agree with you.

 

A major part of the problem lies in the fact that community managers overall seem to be either afraid or unwilling to challenge this sort of behavior. Being proactive doesn't even enter into the equation.

 

I've noticed this trend get worse and worse with games attached to major gaming corporations(blizzard, ea, trion, pwe), or those just looking to cash in on a name.

 

What will it take to start fixing this issue? Damned if I know. I don't see the bile going anywhere anytime soon if it keeps going unchecked.

[CosmicKat]

What a surprise, CK is making up numbers again.

 

Subs never dropped to 250k. If it did, find it and prove it.

 

They said they dropped below 500k. They didn't say how far below. I used a number of 250k as a worst case (it actually could have been worse), and said the number was likely somewhere between that and 500k. By their own statements, this is factual. How accurate is completely unknown by anyone outside of EA.

[LordArtemis]

Wow, I wasn't trying to cause a witch hunt. I was just looking for some general information opinions. I understand there can be a bit of inaccuracy there, after all, I'm asking and not looking up the info myself.

 

I don't think there was any ill intent in CosmicKat's reply.

Edited September 8, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Drahy]

Agree with almost all of the people here about ONE-TIME-ONLY dye ...

 

I take it from just common player experience and feelings. Bioware always say they want to give us "best player experience" in this game ... well my point of view is just like that.

 

I come from work and I would like to play this game as relax and to think about something else, enjoy it and have fun. I want to look black so I should always have a chance to get black outfits, white crystals with reasonable prize and value within game time I can handle with my work and personal stuff. I can even understand some colours are "rare" (to cost a little bit more) but I dont care that all people are wearing black or all are wearing white, If they like it, so be it but everyone should have the same chance to get the look what they want when they pay every month the fee, buying datadisks and are normal players subscribers. Thats my opinion.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Drahy

[DarthVenizen]

typical forums, whine about random chance to get it, people declare "I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH IT COSTS WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY IT STRAIGHT UP" they put it in "MAN *** TOO EXPENSIVE WAAAAAAH" Edited September 8, 2013 by DarthVenizen

[Pathlight-]

Free market: put an article on the market. Price it accordingly to what the market will bear.

 

If people want to spend 2k CCs on a dye it is nobody's business but their own. Those whining need to get a better job or start saving some ingame credits if they want it.

 

Cartel items are cosmetic only and thus don't create any imbalance between players. They also fund future development for the game.

 

Tldr: stop whining. The Cartel Market funds this game.

[Heal-To-Full]

If people want to spend 2k CCs on a dye it is nobody's business but their own. Those whining need to get a better job or start saving some ingame credits if they want it.

What about those who don't want the dye itself, only to QQ?

[LordArtemis]

Well, at least for now it appears the dye is no longer on the market.

[oaceen]

Well, at least for now it appears the dye is no longer on the market.

 

was it ever on in the first place? i haven't really been looking.

[LordArtemis]

was it ever on in the first place? i haven't really been looking.

 

Yes, it was, but I think for only a day. I remember seeing both of them in the newly added section of the market.

[ArostheJedi]

o'rly?

 

So they institute direct sale of these two precious dyes, at player request (and at a price range players freely declared they would be willing to pay)... and by doing so they reduce the "cost to acquire" by around 80%, while undermining their own sales of dye packs (since let's face it.. most of them were bought to get these two dyes).... AND it's them that are being greedy here? Really?

 

You might want to ponder a bit and give it some more thought.

 

As I have said elsewhere, I spend more or did, then any 100 people Im sure on the CM. So your quote of, I, We, or others agreed to pay such a price is invalid. I never agreed to pay for it at that amount, which is absurb. And I was one of those whales throwing money away at it.

Step back off that pedestal you seem to think your on, and you look at the big picture. This is bothering more people, then not.

Learn to read.