Players with a sense of entitlement

[Cyberwoman]

Please elaborate; which elements of the Empire's Section X daily "Bioanalysis" do you find fun? Is is the killing of 10 beasts(that are either silver champions solo or pack of champion, regulars or gold bosses) or picking up 10 bones and poop? Is it the sequential stages that lead to a tent to click on a console? Is it riding into a green mission instance to tag a boss rancor with a dart and then kill it? Or is it the delivery back to base to a dropbox with no intro or outro voice acting?

 

Section X isn't a great example of a good dallies section in my opinion (Although not as bad as some people say in my opinion) but the Makeb weekly and especially the CZ-198 dallies were really a step in the right direction (Despite the lack of story).

Edited August 28, 2013 by Cyberwoman

[Hessen]

Please elaborate; which elements of the Empire's Section X daily "Bioanalysis" do you find fun? Is is the killing of 10 beasts(that are either silver champions solo or pack of champion, regulars or gold bosses) or picking up 10 bones and poop? Is it the sequential stages that lead to a tent to click on a console? Is it riding into a green mission instance to tag a boss rancor with a dart and then kill it? Or is it the delivery back to base to a dropbox with no intro or outro voice acting?

 

Zone-out, winding down, quick gameplay without needing to think or concentrate hard is the biggest gaming market out there at the moment.

 

So mindlessly easily killing a group of mobs then handing in for instant cash/xp is absolutely valid content.

[Ebazinam]

I don't hate it. In small doses it's alright for an alt-aholic like myself. I also roleplay and the game really doesn't matter a whole lot for that, it's 95% down to the players.

 

Mostly though... I've been playing MMO's since before the term existed. They've become a time-wasting habit. I was going to bail and try another one, but all the others are either too old, WoW, WoW clones, or more F2P crap.

 

After reading through so many of your posts...this is my favorite. In such a short post, you have provided some insight into the driving forces of cosmickat posts.

 

It is clear that you would complain no matter what MMO you play. Must be a sense of entitlement . (The ASG definition, not webster's)

[bionamaster]

i'll refer you to this thread as a primer:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=136348

 

this is a thread that references 'a million players.'

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260271

 

and since you don't know what "customer is always right" means, i would stand by my previous suggestion that you not work with customers.

Neither thread says they lost a million players, one only said they had a million players. Disproves one of my points, but not the more important one. The other is a player assessment, which I don't use as solid evidence. And I don't really understand your third point. "The customer is always right" means listen to the customer and work to make them happy, correct? If they did that, the game would be a mess.

[mmjarec]

How is cz198 so much better? Its still click to pickup and kill x amount quests exactly like every other planet

[curtkram]

Neither thread says they lost a million players, one only said they had a million players. Disproves one of my points, but not the more important one. The other is a player assessment, which I don't use as solid evidence. And I don't really understand your third point. "The customer is always right" means listen to the customer and work to make them happy, correct? If they did that, the game would be a mess.

 

the first is the start of thousands of posts about declining server population

 

the second is from some EA shareholder thing or something. further research should validate those numbers. unless you need me to spoonfeed everything to you.

 

i do not think this game would be a mess if bioware had happy customers. your sense of entitlement is incredible (in the forum definition, not the real definition).

[SecretScientist]

Neither thread says they lost a million players, one only said they had a million players. Disproves one of my points, but not the more important one. The other is a player assessment, which I don't use as solid evidence. And I don't really understand your third point. "The customer is always right" means listen to the customer and work to make them happy, correct? If they did that, the game would be a mess.

 

The only numbers that are trustworthy are the ones released by EA themselves. Frank Gibeau, President-EA Labels, Electronic Arts, Inc., has stated their subscriber numbers several times in their earnings conference calls.

 

 

"We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers."

FEBRUARY 01, 2012

EA - Q3 2012 Electronic Arts Inc. Earnings Conference Call

 

"...a solid base of around 1.3 million subscribers."

MAY 07, 2012

EA - Q4 2012 Electronic Arts Inc. Earnings Conference Call

 

"...subscriptions have been on a declining trajectory and have now slipped below 1 million."

JULY 31, 2012

EA - Q1 2013 Electronic Arts Inc. Earnings Conference Call

 

"And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million."

May 7th, 2013

EA - Q4 2013 Electronic Arts Inc. Earnings Conference Call

 

You can find the transcripts on EA's website

 

I noticed you guys keep going back and forth about "the customer is always right". That's a phrase most often used by the general public. In the worlds of Sales and Marketing, the more appropriate but lesser used phrase is "the customer is king".

 

Personally, I prefer the more obscure but most insightful phrase: The customer is the king maker.

[Hessen]

Give the customer what they want

 

vs

 

Tell the customer what they want

[curtkram]

Give the customer what they want

 

vs

 

Tell the customer what they want

 

vs

 

actively listen to the customer and treat them the way you would want to be treated.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

I do think bioware is listening, however I don't think they are listening to the right people...

[Hessen]

vs

 

actively listen to the customer and treat them the way you would want to be treated.

 

Most complaints aren't about how players have been treated, most are simply a demand for more free stuff or more content that suits their particular preference.

 

Yes communication could be a lot better to the players, but it won't stop unreasonable and unrealistic demands from a large portion of them.

[Malastare]

I do think bioware is listening, however I don't think they are listening to the right people...

 

A lot of people think this way....

 

...they think Bioware should be listening to them, and no one else.

 

Which is a fantastic way of producing a service with one customer.

[Glumish]

Section X isn't a great example of a good dallies section in my opinion (Although not as bad as some people say in my opinion) but the Makeb weekly and especially the CZ-198 dallies were really a step in the right direction (Despite the lack of story).

 

Agreed. The only dailies that are really worth it if we're looking at credit per minute are Section X, Black Hole, Makeb Weekly, and CZ.

 

The Makeb and GSI dailies are such a waste of time and too scattered compared to the other dailies to actually get them done efficiently. I haven't really bothered with Belsavis and Ilum to be honest.

 

Though, the Bioanalysis daily brought up that someone was whining about is incredibly easy, especially compared to the Area quest in that same zone. You don't even need to kill any of the mobs if you just CC them and run around looting the various eggs/waste and then finish up the other stages of the quest.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Glumish

[curtkram]

A lot of people think this way....

 

...they think Bioware should be listening to them, and no one else.

 

Which is a fantastic way of producing a service with one customer.

 

this is not what the poster you're quoting said. which i think is part of the problem. you want to believe bioware is not the problem, so you take a reasonable opinion about listening to "people" and change it to listening to a "person" to suit your agenda. if there was something wrong with what that poster said, you could have addressed what he said rather than changing it to mean something else.

[Blackardin]

I want to talk a little about entitlement or the feeling thereof. I've heard a lot of people who answer complaints call said users "People who feel entitled but who actually are not" or some other version of this. While I understand, of course, this is Bioware's game and in a way, we as the users, are not entitled to have things be any other way other than theirs. This line of thinking, I believe is wrong and here's why.

 

1. BW is a creator of a product. This is the original game of SWTOR to which we owe no sense of entitlement. This was the vision of the developers and creators and it's entirely their product to make and say "Here. Take it and like it" Which many people did, myself included.

 

2. BW/EA is the creator of a service. Most MMOs require service to maintain and expand the game. An MMO must maintain a "fresh" feeling amongst its users. Without continual advancement of new concepts and content, the game would stagnate just like every single-player video game ever created. Ask yourself, how long you can play a single player game for without getting bored and moving on to the next? The answer, in industry terms, is about a month or two, depending on various factors.

 

It's this second point that allows us, as the customer, to dictate where we would like to see the game go. It's our interest in the original product that keeps this game going. Therefore, its in their best interests to make the broad amount of players happy or they will leave - Just as they did before F2P came out. People like to say the forums are the vast minority. Maybe in WoW this was true. Not in this game, or so I have noticed. Most of the complaints or arguments presented here are the same ones I see talked about in General and Guild chat. Maybe the forum users a bit more zealous about it, but the end result is the same: If the customer is not happy, they will not play.

 

TL/DR The sense of entitlement is justified.

 

For less then a the cost of a quarter cup of morning coffee (53.3 cents a day), with a five dollar rebate in the form of cartel coins (reducing the cost to approximately 33 cents per day)? I'm thinking that you have just defined the very essence of the entitlement mentality sir.

[Blackardin]

this is not what the poster you're quoting said. which i think is part of the problem. you want to believe bioware is not the problem, so you take a reasonable opinion about listening to "people" and change it to listening to a "person" to suit your agenda. if there was something wrong with what that poster said, you could have addressed what he said rather than changing it to mean something else.

 

The worst thing they can do is to listen to the self appointed, delusional crybabies and arm chair developers we read on these boards on a daily basis. This board, these self educated, self appointed "experts" on everything from game development to chuck norris, do not in any way represent the overall player base of this game, or their interests.

[Blackardin]

Give the customer what they want

 

vs

 

Tell the customer what they want

 

But which customer? The vocal minority, the silent majority, the one's that want it tougher, the ones that want it easier?

 

Have you read these boards? Heck, have you read this thread? LOL

Edited August 29, 2013 by Blackardin

[Sarlegant]

The Vocal Minority... I read this in the forums and this thread alot...

 

I will agree that the people that post in game forums are a minority of the players, ie vocal.

I will disagree these posters represent the minority of players views.

 

I have not actually logged into the game for a couple of weeks now... I know I'm in the minority when I say, grinding does not keep me interested, it does not entertain me. I understand if you want the BIS, you gotta grind, you gotta earn it, you gotta work for it. It still not interesting.

 

I have 4 level 90s on WoW... doing dailies, I just lost interest, and never got the 5th of my 8 leveled to 90...

I have run 4 toons thru Makeb... I'm done with it. I'd say I have a good tolerance to leveling and/or grinding, but 5 seems to be my limit these days.

 

Beck to my point, I know I'm in the minority, because the majority, that this post might have represented, found something else to entertain themselves with.

 

I am far from disappointed... I've enjoyed myself since Beta with this game only taking a break long enough to see Pandaria 4 times through. I'm not even saying I won't play SWToR this weekend... just saying I won't be playing today.

[ImpactHound]

Agreed. The only dailies that are really worth it if we're looking at credit per minute are Section X, Black Hole, Makeb Weekly, and CZ.

 

The Makeb and GSI dailies are such a waste of time and too scattered compared to the other dailies to actually get them done efficiently. I haven't really bothered with Belsavis and Ilum to be honest.

 

Though, the Bioanalysis daily brought up that someone was whining about is incredibly easy, especially compared to the Area quest in that same zone. You don't even need to kill any of the mobs if you just CC them and run around looting the various eggs/waste and then finish up the other stages of the quest.

 

The ease or credits per minute ratio of dailies wasn't called into question, the Fun Factor was. Personally, I find missions like the laser maze fun. Picking up 10 rancor turds isn't. Unfortunately the fun one isn't repeatable.

 

The only daily that had a glimmer of smart design was the Black Hole one where you have a light droid hover over you, and you see red sensors drop down, and if you're in one when they pulse it spawns an elite, and you try to collect 5 boxes in a dark room full of pings. It's an entertaining mechanic that has the potential to be engaging; you can make a mini-game of it, or different rooms randomly appear for it, or add bonus rewards for not triggering any enemies like extra comms.

Edited August 29, 2013 by ImpactHound

[bionamaster]

the first is the start of thousands of posts about declining server population

 

the second is from some EA shareholder thing or something. further research should validate those numbers. unless you need me to spoonfeed everything to you.

 

i do not think this game would be a mess if bioware had happy customers. your sense of entitlement is incredible (in the forum definition, not the real definition).

 

First of all, I don't take an estimated number of posted by a player as set-in-stone proof. The other states up roughly 800,000 subscribers were gone, not one million. Close, but no cigar. Also, you cannot make every customer happy in an MMO game. Try, and the game will fail. And you, my friend, have no idea what the word entitlement means, even in this "forum definition"

Edited August 29, 2013 by bionamaster

[TUXs]

vs

 

actively listen to the customer and treat them the way you would want to be treated.

 

this!!! ^ ^

[CosmicKat]

After reading through so many of your posts...this is my favorite. In such a short post, you have provided some insight into the driving forces of cosmickat posts.

 

It is clear that you would complain no matter what MMO you play. Must be a sense of entitlement . (The ASG definition, not webster's)

 

Actually, the two reasons I complain the most about TOR are....

 

- That it had/has huge potential given the makers of it, the IP, and the cash behind it. To release something so bland and generic makes TOR's failing all the more glaring.

 

- The Biodrones are so ridiculously partisan, and obviously "plants", that it just can't be allowed to go unchallenged.

[curtkram]

First of all, I don't take an estimated number of posted by a player as set-in-stone proof. The other states up roughly 800,000 subscribers were gone, not one million. Close, but no cigar. Also, you cannot make every customer happy in an MMO game. Try, and the game will fail. And you, my friend, have no idea what the word entitlement means, even in this "forum definition"

 

you can believe what you want. a previous poster outlined the numbers from the shareholder reports. i would only touch on the "forum definition" of entitlement as it is really at the core of this thread. I believe the people who have defined the term "entitled" in this environment are generally the people this poster was referring to (i assume these are the same 'biodrones' cosmic is referring to above):

.. the self appointed, delusional crybabies and arm chair developers we read on these boards on a daily basis. This board, these self educated, self appointed "experts" on everything from game development to chuck norris...

 

These fine folks, who have done such a good job of establishing a strong community on the forums, have separated the "dictionary" definition of "entitlement" from the "forum" definition. Around here, "entitlement" is just a disparaging remark directed towards someone you disagree with. there isn't any additional thought, meaning, or intent when people on these forums use that word.

Edited August 29, 2013 by curtkram

[BaronV]

It was a painfully effective word in deflecting criticisms of Mass Effect 3's shoehorned multiplayer, storyline endings, and devaluation of "choices that mattered" in previous games most of all. I'm upset that the word is still in their toolkit.

 

at least they didnt bring out "Artistic Integrity"

[ImpactHound]

Actually, the two reasons I complain the most about TOR are....

 

- That it had/has huge potential given the makers of it, the IP, and the cash behind it. To release something so bland and generic makes TOR's failing all the more glaring.

 

- The Biodrones are so ridiculously partisan, and obviously "plants", that it just can't be allowed to go unchallenged.

 

I don't have the screenshots at work, but Andromeda was the worst. Not to mention obvious connection the "social marketeer" full time temp positions they hired for boldly on the careers page on the root BioWare website, and all the screenshots saved of the job description & pay.