Reasons why SWTOR will be F2P in 6 mos

[Haiken]

These forums sucks, even before the game launched it was full of threads like this one, I guess I will avoid going into the forums, I keep trying to reason with these people but is useless, piece of advise if by any chance any newcomer read this, do not take anything granted in these forums, they're full of whiny threads or fanboy threads and all the good threads are buried.

[Nadeya]

Whats funny is, by your post, wow should have failed when it launched. It had no endgame, next to no content, and had all sorts of game breaking bugs and glitches, as well as a horrible launch.

 

Another false statement, Ive played WoW from closed beta.

 

Yes there were no real raids and no BGs at release but you still had alot of dungeons to go to. UBRS, BRS, BRD, Strath, Scholo and so on. If you mean by endgame to get epics for free then yes there wasnt.

 

But it didnt take too long till they have added MC then and shortly after it BWL and so on.

 

And for Bugs oh please, there were no gamebreaking bugs like in SWTOR right now. You had waiting lines at release but nobody could expect to have WoW such a success not even the devs.

 

There was a problem especially with the mage class when using blink to fall thru the world but that didnt happen a few times a day. For me this happened 2 times in the whole beta and later on a few times.

 

Sorry to tell you but WoW in beta was more polished then SWTOR at release.

 

SWTOR has clunky controls, fps drops in some areas and especially in warzones, bad camera, animation bugs, bad UI, too small models and too small hitboxes, TAB targeting not working like it should especially in PvP, skills not firing off at all or triggering the GCD when not firing off and a delay in executing commands like skills .... overall slow UI.

 

There are tons of more problems, like I have to reload the game after a few hours cause Iam getting always around the 5h mark heavily FPS drops everywhere. Chat not function properly like it should and so on.

 

These arent minor things, sure WoW had also bugs and still has but NON of these are things which you see daily or annoys you daily so dont tell me about gamebreaking bugs in WoW, ********.

 

Iam not a fanboi of either, Iam just telling you how it really is and SWTOR currently is a mess especially for a PvP gamer. Has it potential ? Absolutely but it comes now to this point / fear ....

 

I wouldnt have a problem with it if the devs would step up and let the community now for example, "Yes we know there are FPS drop issues or delay lag issues in skills and wer are working on it now but it will take some time".

 

That would be perfectly fine for me, but how I see it is this ... These problems were already noted half year ago in beta and they are still there ... gamebreaking BUGS. You really think they will fix them ? I sadly highly doubt it.

 

For me it seems so like rushing a product, getting money out of it and them stomping it to the ground. To be fair nobody can know it for sure but like things are handled currently .... Fals priorities in development, like adding new flashpoints and not fixing issues in the game first ? I mean seriously ***, I could care less about more content when there are still gamebreaking issues in the game.

[eugam]

Lazy

 

This is perhaps the biggest misstep. Biowhore and Evil Arts cut corners by licensing the HeroEngine instead of developing their own. Now, as a developer professionally, I would normally say "Good for them," but it is painfully clear not much money went into developing this engine into something for a AAA MMO. As of 9/2011, the engine still does not support multiple cores nor a 64-bit client. Even WoW supports multiple cores and a 64-bit client.

 

This is sloth, and the fact that BW/EA did not bother to invest in the backbone of this game. Players will burn through your content and dialog. And when they get into the routine of playing the repetitive parts of the game, they will really start to notice how little was put into this engine.

 

I ll just comment on this topic. You have no idea. If i was about creating a mmo i d buy the same engine. Simultronics is a highly skilled think-tank. There is simply no other company with more mmo knowhow and creativity. Half of the features you see in current EQ2, Rift, SWTOR and a few other games are brain childs of Simultronics.

 

Now OP, since you are a skilled developer. What whould you do to make an engine using multiple cores ? There are not really many defined threats to spread. Char anaimation ? Environmental animation ? Combat animation ? Content streaming ? Sorry, thats BS. The current engine uses, supported by the OS's features, all my cores and all my GPU cores. The game performs on my hardware as expected compared to any other game.

 

The lack of a 64bit compilation has nothing to do with the developers of the engine. Everyone, even drunk, is able to switch on 64bit as an compiler option. If its not happening, then its a depency to a 3rd party. What could SWTOR gain with a 64bit client ? Basically nothing. Those playing ona 32bit OS.. well they play on 32 bit. And those on a 64bit OS allready gain more mem and then far better memory managment of Windows 64bit.

[mutharex]

To the people saying WoW was more polished/had less bugs in Beta and at release:

what are you smoking?? This is the proof that you weren't playing WoW, then.

 

WoW had for months:

 

- loot/gathering bug, you would get stuck and only relogging would fix it

- blink would screw up

- arcane missile didn't work properly for years (you kept on seeing in Patch Notes "Arcane Missiles now working as intended" over and over

- loot lag, you couldn't loot for a few minutes, often you would end up disconnected

- fight lag, where you prayed you weren't dead by the time the spike passed

- no form of organized PVP or Honor

- UI wasn't that great

- bugged gathering nodes

 

And that's just what I remember without really straining (has been 7 years...)

[TheHauntingBard]

Op is bashing a bit too much.

How ever the engine is total garbage.

[Paganini]

I love the post-criticism fanboy circle jerk. It's kind of reassuring to know that no matter what a company does, it will always have a core group of idiots to rationalize anything and everything they do.

[Perfik]

I love the post-criticism fanboy circle jerk. It's kind of reassuring to know that no matter what a company does, it will always have a core group of idiots to rationalize anything and everything they do.

 

i also love that no matter what a game has to offer there will be a core group of idiots to criticize anything and everything they do

 

see what u did here

[Paganini]

i also love that no matter what a game has to offer there will be a core group of idiots to criticize anything and everything they do

 

see what u did here

 

Critics find flaws in things and try to get the company to improve them.

 

Fanboys suck up to anything and refuse to believe Bioware can do anything wrong.

 

One of these groups moves the game forward, the other holds it back.

[ozirizo]

Critics find flaws in things and try to get the company to improve them.

 

Fanboys suck up to anything and refuse to believe Bioware can do anything wrong.

 

One of these groups moves the game forward, the other holds it back.

 

Tell that to SWG...

[DarthSmart]

Nope. This game will never become free to play as I see it, and especially not because you want it to.

[Libertine]

funny how these whine threads in 99% of cases come from Dec/2011 folk ... i sense a pattern ...

[TheHauntingBard]

Critics find flaws in things and try to get the company to improve them.

 

Fanboys suck up to anything and refuse to believe Bioware can do anything wrong.

 

One of these groups moves the game forward, the other holds it back.

 

QFT.

 

How ever moving forward is taking risks, though one could argue that the biggest risk you could take is not moving at all.

Edited December 29, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[imtrick]

Critics find flaws in things and try to get the company to improve them.

 

Fanboys suck up to anything and refuse to believe Bioware can do anything wrong.

 

One of these groups moves the game forward, the other holds it back.

 

Not everyone who likes a game more than you do is a "fanboy."

 

I get a kick out of how many people think anyone who disagrees with them can be dismissed by name-calling, without realizing they're doing exactly the same thing: thinking their opinion is the only one that matters and everyone else should just be ignored.

 

People are going to see both sides of this. It doesn't mean they're fanboys any more than your criticisms make you a troll. Calling people names doesn't help the argument in either direction.

[Darth_Pants]

this thread will be locked in moments. but i just have to add this.

 

there are ppl saying you cannot compare wow launch to swtor launch.

 

others saying it should be compared as such.

 

both crowds are somewhat correct. and both are incorrect.

 

this is what should be compared :

bugs / faults

class / faction balance

itemisation / stats (2h axes with spirit ftw / blaster cannons with cunning)

lvling experience

progression

lvling content, such as lvl appropriate instance and pvp

 

these are examples, there are more, but avoiding tldr

things that should NOT be compared:

endgame content

"polish"

graphics

sound

lag

and most importantly, things that are only present in wow due to external addons. wow has no dps meter. has poor raid frames, has many many features the average player considers a necessity, and yet fail to realize that 7 years in, blizz still has not implemented them.

 

 

i admit, i want a dps meter, for personal reasons. i have no problem with it not being able to be linked. i just want to know where i can improve.

 

i want the camera smart pivot turned off or an option, and for gods sake, let us reduce the ui scale (they are making ui customizable as in rift to my understanding, but i want it NOW DAMN IT!)

[Gereon]

I played the exact same, and I'll take you up on that bet.

100USD says you are wrong.

 

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

 

 

^^ This

 

I`ll put another 100USD in

[Paganini]

Not everyone who likes a game more than you do is a "fanboy."

 

I get a kick out of how many people think anyone who disagrees with them can be dismissed by name-calling, without realizing they're doing exactly the same thing: thinking their opinion is the only one that matters and everyone else should just be ignored.

 

People are going to see both sides of this. It doesn't mean they're fanboys any more than your criticisms make you a troll. Calling people names doesn't help the argument in either direction.

 

No, not everybody that disagrees with me is a fanboy. But then again I never said that they were. I just implied that some fanboys were here, you put those other words into my mouth.

 

If you don't think that there are an abundance of fanboys on this forum then I really don't even know how to respond to that one...

 

Earlier today I was arguing in the Ability lag thread and someone brought up the point that since abilities have to wait for the animations to finish that Alacrity is a totally pointless stat for many classes. Some people who had defended every other facet of the issue then chimed in that people should simply not use the Alacrity stat (despite it being on epic raid and pvp vendor gear) and that it was working as intended.

 

I'm sorry but some people cannot be reasoned with.

[Elgarr]

Lol, SWTOR has problems, a lot of them.

 

But no way will this game go F2P in 6 months, i have yet to see a game from release go F2P in 6 months.

 

Look at some of the totally crap games that the devs failed to deliver on and they ended up virtually empy of people playing them. Vanguard being one of them, how long has that been out for and has that yet to go F2P?

 

Seriously, you need to look at every game thats gone F2P in the past and see how long they have been out as a subscription base before they changed.

 

I would have to say, you really shouldnt post about stuff you dont have a clue about. BW have made some serious screw ups, but for them to lose 90% of there player base in that time for them to warrant going F2P would be virtually impossible.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Elgarr

[RudyRoo]

after panda bears wow goes f2p ill bet ya that....

[Perfik]

Critics find flaws in things and try to get the company to improve them.

 

Fanboys suck up to anything and refuse to believe Bioware can do anything wrong.

 

One of these groups moves the game forward, the other holds it back.

 

you arent' serious right?

 

the critics based on

 

a) flawed facts and personal opinions

b) imaginary world or worst imaginary game

c) criticism without suggestion

 

is moving game forward ??? man where u live? how old are you? there IS a reason that companies DO NOT implent more than 10% from forums dont' you think ?

[Kaltern]

Ok, I'll start by saying I've played and beta tested probably every AAA and other MMO's past and present, and I'm over 30 so I'm not a kid.

 

Now.. This game would have made an awesome KOTOR III stand alone offline game, with reviews easily averaging 95% in most review magazines/websites.

 

Unfortunately, it is an MMO. In this case it means they tacked on the ability to group up for a few flashpoint quests, and some PVP which doesn't exactly make sense. (why would Jedi fight each other exactly - apart from 'sparring'?)

 

Yes, this game has just launched. Yes, the voice acting is nice. And yes, the storylines are rich and interesting (to me, anyway).

 

However.. I don't think I can see the incentive to play the game again after I've leveled a few characters to 50.

 

Allow me to explain. Most MMO's have the same quests, and the same stories, regardless of your class. However, most MMO's also have various quests and storylines unrelated to any main story - in fact games such as EQ2 do not even have a 'main' storyline. And this, I think is the first problem with SWTOR - it's reliance on one singular storyline to carry the player through.

 

Sure, there are other smaller quests, but I have yet to see any other 'epic' stories other than the main class one. And I think that is directly responsible for the inevitable boredom that sets in.

 

Also, the other main reason for MMO's are the social options. We won't touch on the god-awful Guild system as I expect that to dramatically improve over time. But, I really am struggling to feel like part of a vibrant world. Everyone has the exact same companions - am I really the only one who finds a room full of T7's and lizards annoying?

 

I firmly believe this game was initially designed as a SP game, and then just had MP stuff bolted on to it.

 

In closing, this game needs to evolve, and quickly - it is stunningly good as a game (well, I'm a little disappointed with lightsaber combat - only a small handful of animations, and the combat just feels like 'you swing, then I swing, then you swing....'), but I just don't feel the same sense of depth I do from say EQ2, or DAoC back in the day.

 

The OP is wrong in many areas, and no, it won't go F2P, but I think unless something changes soon, like many who bought a nice new iPad, the shiny wears off to eventually leave an expensive mug coaster...

[RenzoMalice]

ueah no way do i see this game going F2P quicker than inferior MMOs such as Champions, DCU and Star Trek Online. Thats assuming it going F2P is a fargone conclusion whic i don;t believe it is. yes it needs tweks yes these bug are horrrible(mostly that goddamn UI bug where you can;t use an ability) but it's not even a month after release

[Elgarr]

after panda bears wow goes f2p ill bet ya that....

 

lol why would it?

 

It still has a huge loyal fan base, even if they dropped down to 20% of there player base, they would still have more people than SWTOR does, they will still make money on 2 million people.

 

Although unless they go F2P to make more money thats soemthing else entirely.

[grondious]

I predict SWTOR thrives for at least 3-4 years with a subscription plan.

 

I'm having more fun in SWTOR than any other mmo since Ultima Online.

 

The fact that you mention wow completely voids your opinion to me. WOW was/is a garbage game. WOW is the Justin Bieber of mmo's. You're pretty much going to a Led Zeppelin forum and insisting that Justin Bieber is better.

 

People need to stop directly comparing MMO's and appreciate them for what they are. I have played nearly every mmo on the market and have found great enjoyment in most of them simply because I dont go play one and spend my entire playtime wishing it was something it was not.

 

To me, SWTOR is a game for Bioware fans. NOT a game for carebear WOWtards. And that's amazing because the wow kiddies like the OP will be gone soon.

 

please ****, i hate when people bash on wow, rly its a garbage game? dude you do realize swtor is SO SIMILAR to wow its not even funny, i love tor i absolutely love tor but peole are blind if they dont realize it is like the most perfect clone of wow ever.

 

and that isnt a bad thing btw, i dont play wow anymore but not cause i have some weird vendetta against it, but just because i played it for 5 yrs and am bored with it

[Bowlan]

Now, as a developer professionally...

 

I quit reading here.

[Paganini]

you arent' serious right?

 

the critics based on

 

a) flawed facts and personal opinions

b) imaginary world or worst imaginary game

c) criticism without suggestion

 

is moving game forward ??? man where u live? how old are you? there IS a reason that companies DO NOT implent more than 10% from forums dont' you think ?

 

What are you talking about?

 

This is just from the front page of a few forums and took me about a minute to compile:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=95738 <-- Clarification and compilation of all known information on a serious combat problem. Note that since the people in that thread upvoted their question to the top of the SR AMA Bioware has now responded and it is near the top of their priority list.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=88491 <--- Discussion about warzone rewards

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=82982 <--- Compilation of known bugs

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=91759 <--- Clarification on a previous incomplete bug fix

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=3500 <--- Petition for the inclusion of server forums to increase the feeling of community

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=99570 <--- Suggestion on how to improve accountability in warzones

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=100223 <--- Possible open world PvP revamp

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=100307 <--- Pointing out an annoying and potentially dangerous glitch

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=98463 <--- Multiple suggestions on how to overhaul the PvP system

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=93245 <--- Concern about open world PvP

 

 

 

 

Seems like constructive criticism to me

Edited December 29, 2011 by Paganini