Op/Scoundrel roll is a PvP exploit!

[Tragamite]

If you relate all abilities in PvP to PvE it's obvious that the roll is ment to destroy the fun in WZs. The level 55 abilities should be comparable at least.

 

Assassin/Shadow phase walk can be used in PvE by allowing them to drop out of a combat area quickly to avoid big hits from bosses.

 

Sorc/Sage shield is great for healer or DPS if you pull aggro from the tank.

 

PT/Van shoulder cannon is a great weapon to use while stunned!

 

Merc/Comm net slows MoBs for escape or more time to kill.

 

Jugg/Guard reflect is great against boss fights but MoBs and only lasts 3 seconds

 

Mara/Sent double blade toss is great anywhere to deal damage!

 

Sniper/Slinger roll is an escape to safe distance on a CD.

 

Op/Scoundrel roll in PvE is no different than a sniper, roll to safety no need to spam it. But in PvP it is a spam and unfair advantage that NO ONE else has!

 

I know it uses up energy but that hardly hurts you when no one can get close to you. It avoids stuns roots and holds either due to design or lag issues. Rolling with an object can be delivered before any player has a chance to act upon it. It is being abused in its use and I can only surmise that BW has ment it to be a game breaking exploit of an ability that's working as intended.

 

I feel like I am cheating every time I use it this way just to stay competitive with other Op/Scoundrels in PvP play. It is stupid that it doesn't have a CD at all and can be used properly 5 times in a row before energy is completely drained. And it only takes my Scoundrel seconds to replenish his energy to continue this exploit.

 

Just because 90% use PEDs does not make it legit at gametime. It is a cheat and needs to be fixed now!

[FrogSkin]

/dead horse/

[TheFXedits]

If you relate all abilities in PvP to PvE it's obvious that the roll is ment to destroy the fun in WZs. The level 55 abilities should be comparable at least.

 

Assassin/Shadow phase walk can be used in PvE by allowing them to drop out of a combat area quickly to avoid big hits from bosses.

 

Sorc/Sage shield is great for healer or DPS if you pull aggro from the tank.

 

PT/Van shoulder cannon is a great weapon to use while stunned!

 

Merc/Comm net slows MoBs for escape or more time to kill.

 

Jugg/Guard reflect is great against boss fights but MoBs and only lasts 3 seconds

 

Mara/Sent double blade toss is great anywhere to deal damage!

 

Sniper/Slinger roll is an escape to safe distance on a CD.

 

Op/Scoundrel roll in PvE is no different than a sniper, roll to safety no need to spam it. But in PvP it is a spam and unfair advantage that NO ONE else has!

 

I know it uses up energy but that hardly hurts you when no one can get close to you. It avoids stuns roots and holds either due to design or lag issues. Rolling with an object can be delivered before any player has a chance to act upon it. It is being abused in its use and I can only surmise that BW has ment it to be a game breaking exploit of an ability that's working as intended.

 

I feel like I am cheating every time I use it this way just to stay competitive with other Op/Scoundrels in PvP play. It is stupid that it doesn't have a CD at all and can be used properly 5 times in a row before energy is completely drained. And it only takes my Scoundrel seconds to replenish his energy to continue this exploit.

 

Just because 90% use PEDs does not make it legit at gametime. It is a cheat and needs to be fixed now!

 

it doesnt avoid Stuns or Roots or slows

[sithBracer]

Yes, but can an op heal to full?

 

Sorcs = heal to full & make them pay for trying to kill you

any other class = FAIL

[Tragamite]

it doesnt avoid Stuns or Roots or slows

 

Either by design or due to lag issues yes it does. Force leap or rocket charge has a stun on impact yet I can be 2 rolls away from them.

 

The roll is the only level 51 ability that is shared by the advanced classes. Ops just have a greater version for Pvp purposes. Ops and Scoundrels should have something different than sniper slingers anyway.

[Pathlight-]

Increase the range to 15m. Add a 10 sec cd. Done.

[Raazmir]

nah, easier to kill objective play in ranked so that balancing the ability doesnt matter and then ignore the problem in unranked because pfft...unranked.

[Draqsko]

Either by design or due to lag issues yes it does. Force leap or rocket charge has a stun on impact yet I can be 2 rolls away from them.

 

The roll is the only level 51 ability that is shared by the advanced classes. Ops just have a greater version for Pvp purposes. Ops and Scoundrels should have something different than sniper slingers anyway.

 

I'd say lag issues..

 

Force leap/rocket charge do not have a stun on impact (I'd love it if they did on my Vig/Smash Guardian). They have a soft interrupt (immediate interrupt but no forced cooldown), and a 2 second root. On my scoundrel if I roll during that root, I go 6 m, not the full 12 m.

 

Stuns completely prevent you from using roll.

 

Slows also reduce the effect of roll from 12 m to 6 m. Even the slow in the acid pool in huttball will do this if you don't activate roll in the little sweet spot since you'll hit the acid and immediately your roll turns to 6 m, necessitating using roll yet again to even get out of the acid with minimal damage.

 

It is also not like slinger/sniper roll in that slinger/sniper roll has a straight line trajectory (resulting in all the QQ about how they could get over the laser beams/bridges in voidstar without actually lowering them), while the scoundrel/operative roll has a ballistic trajectory (which means if you don't have enough height, you'll get stonewalled by any obstacle within your ballistic curve).

 

Since your siggie indicates you have as scoundrel healer at 55, you should already know the limitations of roll and exactly how to shut it down. Here's a hint as a DPS, hit them with a slow, and watch them burn all their energy trying to roll away from you, yet still being in range of all ranged attacks and gap closers.

 

PS. the only ones that won't work against are scrapper/concealment, because they get a chance for a 1 second dodge (with full cleanse), every time they roll.. But then again if they are rolling away from you that much, they are trying to break off from combat altogether. Since often times kills don't matter in warzones, forcing someone to voluntarily remove themselves from a fight for a length of time is just as effective as killing them.

[mfourcustom]

If you relate all abilities in PvP to PvE it's obvious that the roll is ment to destroy the fun in WZs. The level 55 abilities should be comparable at least.

 

Assassin/Shadow phase walk can be used in PvE by allowing them to drop out of a combat area quickly to avoid big hits from bosses.

 

Sorc/Sage shield is great for healer or DPS if you pull aggro from the tank.

 

PT/Van shoulder cannon is a great weapon to use while stunned!

 

Merc/Comm net slows MoBs for escape or more time to kill.

 

Jugg/Guard reflect is great against boss fights but MoBs and only lasts 3 seconds

 

Mara/Sent double blade toss is great anywhere to deal damage!

 

Sniper/Slinger roll is an escape to safe distance on a CD.

 

Op/Scoundrel roll in PvE is no different than a sniper, roll to safety no need to spam it. But in PvP it is a spam and unfair advantage that NO ONE else has!

 

I know it uses up energy but that hardly hurts you when no one can get close to you. It avoids stuns roots and holds either due to design or lag issues. Rolling with an object can be delivered before any player has a chance to act upon it. It is being abused in its use and I can only surmise that BW has ment it to be a game breaking exploit of an ability that's working as intended.

 

I feel like I am cheating every time I use it this way just to stay competitive with other Op/Scoundrels in PvP play. It is stupid that it doesn't have a CD at all and can be used properly 5 times in a row before energy is completely drained. And it only takes my Scoundrel seconds to replenish his energy to continue this exploit.

 

Just because 90% use PEDs does not make it legit at gametime. It is a cheat and needs to be fixed now!

 

Only the bold enlarged part stuck out to me and it made me LoL

[Gren-Aluren]

Either by design or due to lag issues yes it does. Force leap or rocket charge has a stun on impact yet I can be 2 rolls away from them.

 

The roll is the only level 51 ability that is shared by the advanced classes. Ops just have a greater version for Pvp purposes. Ops and Scoundrels should have something different than sniper slingers anyway.

 

Because those abilities do Melee/Ranged attack type and only have rooting effects. Force/Tech abilities that knockback, stun or root will work. Read the tooltip.

 

It's not overpowered. Vanguards, Commandos Sages and Shadows don't have an issue with stopping Scoundrel mobility. The only issue is that current objectives in warzones don't take into consideration this ability. That can easily be fixed if they wanted to.

 

Play Scoundrel DPS then you'll see all the classes that counter you as well as what classes you have an intended advantage over and how desperately they need this roll (Except Sawbones, they don't need it). Other melee classes have pulls, leaps, speed increases and knockbacks and some even have all four of those.

 

This is a perception problem. If you only have one perspective of a class from the class you are using of course some classes will seem like they have huge advantages over you or seem to be weak as crap to you. Rock, Paper, Scissors, man. Why do you think every class on the forum has threads with people crying about how UP their classes are? Hell, Marauders asked for Smash to do more single-target damage. Sure, some complaints on balance are legitimate concerns but most of the time they are exaggerated and biased.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Draqsko]

Only the bold enlarged part stuck out to me and it made me LoL

 

You have a perception problem, Shoulder cannon is a great ability to prevent sap-caps on a node, since you can eat the sap while still interrupting the cap. Welcome to your new role, Meatshield for the node your side controls. Can't guarantee you'll last long after the stealther figures out what is going on.

[Tragamite]

Because those abilities do Melee/Ranged attack type and only have rooting effects. Force/Tech abilities that knockback, stun or root will work.

 

It's not overpowered. Vanguards, Commandos Sages and Shadows don't have an issue with stopping Scoundrel mobility. The only issue is that current objectives in warzones don't take into consideration this ability. That can easily be fixed if they wanted to.

 

Level a Scoundrel to 55 then you'll see all the classes that counter you as well as what classes you have an intended advantage over and how desperately they need this roll (Except Sawbones, they don't need it). Other melee classes have pulls, leaps, speed increases and knockbacks and some even have all four of those.

 

I do have a 55 scoundrel and no they don't need it as it is. 2-3 sec CD between rolls would not break its actually use but would curb the exploitation of this ability.

[Gren-Aluren]

I do have a 55 scoundrel and no they don't need it as it is. 2-3 sec CD between rolls would not break its actually use but would curb the exploitation of this ability.

 

People roll every 4 second after a roll to conserve energy, which is about 6 seconds each roll if you include the time you are immobilized. Scoundrel DPS needs this ability. Forget the stupid objectives in Warzones, like Huttball. That map has been broken since Guardian was given Guardian Leap and a reset on Force Leap after using Force Push. It's not an exploit.

 

Honestly if you have that many 55s you should know how the different Attack Types work and the difference between a root and a stun. You should also read the tooltips of abilities then you would know Scamper has a 30% increase in dodging all incoming Melee/Ranged attack types for it's duration.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Wraiven]

it doesnt avoid Stuns or Roots or slows

 

How does that matter? You obviously have a perception problem. They roll once or twice and they are out of range of stuns or slows or roots.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Wraiven

[Tragamite]

People roll every 4 second after a roll to conserve energy, which is about 6 seconds each roll if you include the time you are immobilized. Scoundrel DPS needs this ability. Forget the stupid objectives in Warzones, like Huttball. That map has been broken since Guardian was given Guardian Leap and a reset on Force Leap after using Force Push. It's not an exploit.

 

Honestly if you have that many 55s you should know how the different Attack Types work and the difference between a root and a stun. You should also read the tooltips of abilities then you would know Scamper has a 30% increase in dodging all incoming Melee/Ranged attack types for it's duration.

 

I said stun I meant root on the charge attacks sorry. I'm fine with all the fluff that comes with skilling in the roll. I'm not good with the spamming of the roll 4-5 times in a row. The roll itself offers a damage reduction making it harder to stop a roller.

 

This ability breaks HB 1000x more than any other class ability. Outside HB it additionally can break WZs.

 

Voidstar the door blows a op rolls to the bridge control and opens the bridge before a sorc can force speed down the ramp.

 

AHG scoundrel rolls to "enemy" node stealthed prompting only one player to advance on the node stun caps before any of the players can support.

 

NC scoundrel rolls east interrupting cap kill and cap before any other character can respond.

 

In ACW a op can make it to snow before most other classes even get inside mid.

 

In HB it is regularly used to get the ball or score before anyone can respond.

 

Yes stuns and kbs can counter the roll but being able to get to a roller to use these abilities is as improbable.

[Zunayson]

Your post is an incoherent mess.

 

I said stun I meant root on the charge attacks sorry. I'm fine with all the fluff that comes with skilling in the roll. I'm not good with the spamming of the roll 4-5 times in a row. The roll itself offers a damage reduction making it harder to stop a roller.

 

1. It sounds like you're saying that the DR makes it harder to kill them - as if killing them was the only way to stop a roll. Problem!
   
2. It actually gives defense chance 30% to white damage, making it harder to hit them.
   
3. Force attacks and tech attacks still have a 100% chance to hit.
   

 

This ability breaks HB 1000x more than any other class ability. Outside HB it additionally can break WZs.

Your assertion is not backed up by any evidence. Only opinions. Saber strike, in my opinion, breaks huttball.

 

Voidstar the door blows a op rolls to the bridge control and opens the bridge before a sorc can force speed down the ramp.

This could be performed at launch without the use of speed. Sometimes the doors really screw you over. Nothing to see here.

 

AHG scoundrel rolls to "enemy" node stealthed prompting only one player to advance on the node stun caps before any of the players can support.

• Speed would only matter at the beginning of a round, in which case the enemy team still has a long time to respond (2 minutes).
  
• The only thing I can surmise your post is about is the sap cap'ing ability of an operative, but even then the mobility is moot.
  

 

NC scoundrel rolls east interrupting cap kill and cap before any other character can respond.

He may be able (read: may) to get there, but by no means can he possibly kill them, because he's out of energy. And all that time it takes for an operative to kill someone plus an 18 second solo cap time is well over enough time to respond.

 

In ACW a op can make it to snow before most other classes even get inside mid.

Mid and sno are completely unrelated. Unless you're only mentioning mid as to bring about a speed comparison.

 

In HB it is regularly used to get the ball or score before anyone can respond.

This is completely false; as an assassin a scoundrel got the ball right as I crossed onto the ramp on the pit. I was within 30m and could have pulled him if I had spec'd into it (Still wouldn't've since it would've only helped him). If the rest of your team is too dumb to respond its their fault.

 

Yes stuns and kbs can counter the roll but being able to get to a roller to use these abilities is as improbable.

Uhhh...

• In huttball, you spawn in front of the roller, so when they roll towards the endzone, they roll towards you.
  
• If they roll towards your node to ninja cap AHG, again they're rolling towards you.
  
• In ACW a scoundrel rolling to your natural node will not get the cap before a second non-roller. Again, you're in range to slow.
  
• For novare, read above.
  
• In voidstar, defenders spawn ahead of the attackers (save for those unforunate timing issues).
  

 

The only reason I can think of a roller running AWAY from you is running away so as to not die.

 

 

 

 

What I find most humorous is that, according to a large portion of the pvp population, enviro-traps, objectives, clickes, etc. are all pve crap, and pvp is only just killing.

 

Yet an ability that aids solely in pve crap is supposedly pvp breaking

 

LOL ok.

[Achyllis]

So to sum up - I couldn't two hit an Op so nerf them NOW! I didn't use any of my various stuns and slows so nerf them NOW.

 

Focus an Op with no guard or cross heals and see how long he lasts.

[Gren-Aluren]

Your post is an incoherent mess.

He may be able (read: may) to get there, but by no means can he possibly kill them, because he's out of energy. And all that time it takes for an operative to kill someone plus an 18 second solo cap time is well over enough time to respond.

 

Actually, I do this all the time. A Scoundrel CAN get there before someone caps on Novarre BUT I can also do it on my Shadow. Either way if it just one person I get that node. They put a speed boost in the center of the map. Most people need to realize the issues with roll are because of poor warzone design. Remove that boost and NC will be fixed.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Tragamite]

So to sum up - I couldn't two hit an Op so nerf them NOW! I didn't use any of my various stuns and slows so nerf them NOW.

 

Focus an Op with no guard or cross heals and see how long he lasts.

 

This post is not about killing an op it's about how the roll affects PvP. The only skill remotely close is a jugg/guard using force leap, push, leap, intercept.

 

The point being that in PvE the roll is a minimal skill used in quick succession. I as a scoundrel I have never used my roll in the manner it is used in PvP. The next least used 51 skill in PvE vs PvP is phase walk. The biggest difference here is a shadow that phase walks will lose any carried objective in the process. Not so with the roll!

 

A scoundrel can carry orbs or the HB using consecutive rolls.

[rlionherz]

A scoundrel can carry orbs or the HB using consecutive rolls.

 

ay, and that's the only thing what makes the roll "OP" . it's not gamebreaking in a pug wz. it just means the team with the roller will win fast and u can move on to the next wz.

[iDraxter]

The only issue is that current objectives in warzones don't take into consideration this ability. That can easily be fixed if they wanted to.

.

well a way to "fix" roll as far as objective play goes would be to add a cooldown on it while out of combat that way they won`t be 1st to reach any objective point and while in combat the cooldown for roll dissepears so u keep ur survivability in fights just give up the insane mobility when swaping sides/reaching objective points how`s that?

Edited September 1, 2013 by iDraxter

[NeverSuffer]

You know I always thought that the roll was total nonsense until I leveled my scoundrel and started using it. Without the roll the class has almost nothing to offer in terms of objectives/mobility... they lack the powerful tools that other classes have in terms of mobility. Sage/Shadow have slows and charges and pushbacks... sages have team pulls for ball carries and saving people... Guardian/Sent have leaps and leaps and more leaps Guards have team leaps and sent has stealth/invincibility... gunslinger/sniper have 2 knockbacks and interrupt immunity.... without roll Scoundrels/Ops can... use WASD to slowly try to walk places while they get stunned/slowed and pushed around..... the roll is very much needed. PLAY the class and if you think its still unfair THEN come complain. Just about every class has a way to slow people and slow effects really put a damper on the roll. There are plenty of tools to counter it.

[RodneyMcNeely]

/dead horse/

Not even close. Thanks to the out-of-control healing of Scouperatives, this equine is able to stay alive indefinitely.

[Cretinus]

Op/scoundrel roll is not an exploit. Problem is that op/scoundrel is a freak class. The roll contributes to this, sure. But it's not the roll as such that makes the class a joke. The roll is part of a ridiculous set of utility gadgets that in combination make op/scoundrel the most stupid MMO build ever.

 

BW needs to control class population figures because everybody in this game wants to play one of the two light saber classes. That's why they are giving goodies to lesser popular classes that don't carry light sabers. Today it's the scoupers, tomorrow it will be the mercs (already buffed on the PTS).

Edited September 1, 2013 by Cretinus

[Cretinus]

Op/scoundrel roll is not an exploit. Problem is that op/scoundrel is a freak class. The roll contributes to this, sure. But it's not the roll as such that makes the class a joke. The roll is part of a ridiculous set of utility gadgets that in combination make op/scoundrel the most stupid MMO build ever.

 

BW needs to control class population figures because everybody in this game wants to play one of the two light saber classes. That's why they are giving goodies to lesser popular classes that don't carry light sabers. Today it's the scoupers, tomorrow it will be the mercs (already buffed on the PTS).

 

^

This

Edited September 1, 2013 by Cretinus