PT DPS Changes live on PTS and in 2.4 Patch Notes

[KarethRiker]

Changes to energy cost, top tree talents, and Flame Thrower.

 

In general I think they're positive, but I'd like to see the magnitude of the changes. Looking forward to hearing what the community thinks after playing with it.

[ScytheEleven]

Changes to energy cost, top tree talents, and Flame Thrower.

 

In general I think they're positive, but I'd like to see the magnitude of the changes. Looking forward to hearing what the community thinks after playing with it.

 

Problem is the overall damage of TD is still going to be roughly the same, they just increased its kinetic damage but reduce it's DoT.

 

Good for PVP probably, still a **** move for PVE.

[Gullesvupper]

They also nerfed FB triggering CgC.... That change buggles me, well. Pyro looks not anyway near done.. It seems like they feel they have to offset every adjustment to heat in lower damage, as if we're a high damaging class.. It's so puzzling, I don't know what to say actually. The change to TD is the only thing that makes any sense from a PvP perspective, depending on the level of increase. But that will not make up for having low survivabilty alone...

 

AP will be interesting to try though.

[ScytheEleven]

Lol

 

Just saw that change to Bursting Flame

 

Sweet nerf.

[Ottoattack]

Lol

 

Just saw that change to Bursting Flame

 

Sweet nerf.

 

As a former pyro player, I read the changes. And all I saw is the first change does not really mean much, then 2 nerfs to a class barely functional.

 

But overall after reading the 2.4 balance changes I think I will unsub. There is no reason to beat a dead horse.

[Evuo]

They also nerfed FB triggering CgC.... That change buggles me, well. Pyro looks not anyway near done.. It seems like they feel they have to offset every adjustment to heat in lower damage, as if we're a high damaging class.. It's so puzzling, I don't know what to say actually. The change to TD is the only thing that makes any sense from a PvP perspective, depending on the level of increase. But that will not make up for having low survivabilty alone...

 

AP will be interesting to try though.

 

Just to expand on this, it is also a nerf to assault's ability to reliably slow their target. Despite it being an underwhelming 30% slow for a mere 2 seconds, at least it would land every time CGC was applied (normally through flame burst spam of augmented by Bursting Flame and Sweltering Heat talents). Now chasing someone or kiting that melee will be down to the roll of the dice.

[OlosBC]

Looks like there won't be much of a reason to go hybrid over full AP. Pyro will still be behind in DPS by a lot, if not even more than before.

[Chickensevil]

I won't be too quick to jump and say all of it was a nerf. But bursting flame... def seems like a nerf. Yeah, they are adding it to rocket punch, big deal! We hit rocket punch so in-frequently as it is, that it should likely be there from the start. If I get the time, I will either copy my character over, or if copy isn't up... haven't looked... will just use the bad geared PT I have there now.

 

Drop in heat costs overall a good thing, and I know we have been asking for that for a very long time. I don't get why they feel the need to nerf the damage output UNLESS, and try to follow me on this, unless the heat drop overall ended up being enough that we no longer (or very rarely) will need to use rapid shots. If you can now IM and FB, and then double FB, and then DFA, inbetween all the PPA proc's (you know... taking one of those three routes) then I could see that as a reason why they felt they needed to drop the damage down a bit. However, it is also possible that it would just keep us at our sub-par damage levels so a net gain of nothing... leaving us as a **** spec.

 

Now, at first the changes overall to AP, seem to be good. But I know testing will be needed to see how that affects the damage output.

Immolate costing more shouldn't be hurtful since it is used so infrequently and heat isn't really an issue with AP in the first place. But the increase in damage (wish they would post the base number damage changes when they do this) might give that extra burst people have been asking for in immolate.

damage reduction in RB? why? is this reduction on the DoT or the upfront damage, or both? Anyone know?

Prototype Cylinder Ventilation: Good change. 8 heat every 6 seconds was 1.3 heat every second or 2 heat (actually 1.99999999 repeating... but... you know...) every 1.5 seconds. If you look you put 2 points and get 2 heat. So this will just be more consistent heat dissipation.

Prototype Flame Thrower: PVP buff/nerf? - they basically give you access to the slow in a scale like the damage, so you don't NEED three stacks to get the slow anymore. Depending on how it stacks, this might be a decent buff since it is a 30% slow per stack. If it is additive then that makes it a 90% slow, if it is multiplicative then 30 + 21 + 14.7 = 65.7 which would be a slight nerf on the slow itself. Overall, I like that they are changing the way you access the slow, but if it is a 65.7% slow at 3 stacks, that would be a slight nerf on our already limited capabilities to make people stay IN THE FLAMETHROWER.

PVE Buff - Because at more stacks it will cost less heat. this likely counters any heat concerns over the additional cost implied on immolate

Prototype Weapon Systems and Power Loaders: Definately a buff, makes crit even more worthless though, maybe they should just get rid of the crit stat at this rate.

 

Overall, interresting changes to the AP tree... they have done nothing to implicitly nerf the hybrid... which is interresting (unless I missed something) which means likely, pyro didn't move much on damage (needs to be tested), AP will definately output more damage (question is how much, and is it enough to equal hybrid), and hybrid will even output more damage since a lot of the tree buffs were getting taken by the hybrid.

[Individual]

Here are the changes. Would like to discuss them while I download the patch. A few things I don't get.

 

Powertech

Advanced Prototype•Increased the cost of Immolate to 10 heat (up from 8) and increased the damage it deals.

•Slightly reduced the damage done by Retractable Blade.

•Prototype Cylinder Ventilation has been redesigned: While High Energy Gas Cylinder is active, players will vent 1/2 heat every 1.5 seconds.

•Prototype Flame Thrower has been redesigned: Flame Burst, Flame Sweep, and Immolate have a 50/100% chance to grant Prototype Flame Thrower, which affects the next Flame Thrower by increasing the damage dealt by 20%, reducing the heat generated by 2, slowing targets by 30%, and making it immune to interrupts. This effect can stack up to 3 times.

•Prototype Weapon Systems now additionally increases the critical strike damage bonus for Flame Thrower by 10/20/30%.

•Power Loaders now additionally increases the critical hit chance of Rocket Punch by 2/4/6%.

Pyrotech•Increased Thermal Detonator explosion damage, but reduced the damage it deals over time.

•Reduced the cost of Incendiary Missile to 16 heat (down from 22), and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

•Bursting Flame has been redesigned: Rocket Punch has a 33/66/100% chance, and if Combustible Gas Cylinder is active, Flame Burst has a 15/30/45% chance to trigger it.

 

 

Things I'm unsure about. Why did they nerf Retractable Blade? Also, note sure I get what they did with Prototype Flame thrower. Did they put a proc on it? Forgive me, but I have played my PT since they nerfed them. I messed around with AP for a little, but I just decided to start playing sniper instead. Isn't the Prototype Flame Thrower the same pretty much or is it going off a proc now?

[Chickensevil]

Same for damage still stacks 20% each stack. There were two changes though, a heat cost reduction of 2 heat per stack (on top of the heat reduction to 24 already given to us on the basic FT) and second was a change to how the slow works. Now the slow starts at 1 stack and builds higher with each stack. So in this way as long as you have at least one stack you get access to some kind of slow. There is no proc element to it.

[OlosBC]

Yea I guess we'll need to see the actual ability damage changes.

 

If FT damage is not reduced much, maybe 2/28/16 will be the new hybrid for surge on punch, shoulder cannon and FT instead of RS, IM and cylinder dot?

[KeyboardNinja]

Yea I guess we'll need to see the actual ability damage changes.

 

If FT damage is not reduced much, maybe 2/28/16 will be the new hybrid for surge on punch, shoulder cannon and FT instead of RS, IM and cylinder dot?

 

The nerfs to RB and IM are really the concern for hybrid. Essentially, these nerfs ensure that more PT damage is contained in the high-tier talents (e.g. the RP crit buff in AP). Granted, we don't know the magnitude of these nerfs yet, so hybrid may still be viable (which I'm fine with). AP is getting buffed a LOT though, even if the magnitude of the buffs is fairly small, so it's more than likely that hybrid will be even with AP in 2.4, and maybe a bit behind. That, combined with the fact that hybrid's DPS is so incredibly variable depending on RS and RP procs is almost certainly enough to push hybrid out of favor.

 

Pyro is a more interesting question. It looks to me like they kept the damage largely the same (perhaps a slight nerf, though the lower heat on IM means more FB and thus more RS) but increased the burst. This might make the spec at least tolerable in PvP, but it still has no place in PvE. Sadface.

[Gullesvupper]

Honestly the nerf to CGC proccing of Flame Burst is so weird, it almost makes you think they ****ed up with the talents and wanted to give Rocket Punch a 100% chance to proc RS while keeping FB at 45%...

 

I'm dead serious. The change is so weird.

[OlosBC]

I can sorta see where its coming from. I often have to prioritize FB over RP to make sure cylinder dot is rolling, even though RP does more damage (especially since cylinder nerf) and, in hybrid, to make sure I have PFT stacks. So this would reverse that.

 

However, if they wanted it that way, should've just added it. It's not like adding more DPS to pyro at this point is a bad thing.

 

Still waiting to see the numbers changes though.

[Gullesvupper]

I can sorta see where its coming from. I often have to prioritize FB over RP to make sure cylinder dot is rolling, even though RP does more damage (especially since cylinder nerf) and, in hybrid, to make sure I have PFT stacks. So this would reverse that.

 

However, if they wanted it that way, should've just added it. It's not like adding more DPS to pyro at this point is a bad thing.

 

Still waiting to see the numbers changes though.

 

Maybe, but it's also a nerf to Pyro's only slow in PvP, that already have a low duration..

[Chickensevil]

Maybe, but it's also a nerf to Pyro's only slow in PvP, that already have a low duration..

 

Yeah, I wonder if they realized what they were nerfing on that end when they did this... Maybe they forgot that there was even a slow attached to the CGC DoT from the other talent?

 

I agree though this change makes NO sense... at all... As if CGC wasn't already NEEDED to be up full time as it is since they nerfed the damage... FML

[Chickensevil]

With the PTS forums open finally we should probably move this discussion over there. I am still downloading... but if and when I get in and can post numbers/evidence/comparisons it will go there.

 

For ONCE we can talk about our class balance on the PTS forums! YAY!

[Brunner_Venda]

Not happy with the nerfs to IM and RB. 16 heat for what then? Is RB really that much of a hard hitter that it needed a nerf? DERP!

 

I expected stupidity out of the devs, but not of this magnitude. AP still probably won't get a 6K hit, and pyro will still lack any kind of burst. TD will hit slightly harder up front, but they still haven't fixed our armor pen.

 

On top of that, stealth scan is still pointless. The flame shield is stupid. Flare... Seriously? And now they've nerfed bursting flame. *********** idiots.

 

Sorry guys, pyro is cooked and done.. My only hope at this point is that AP is halfway playable with all the new goodies.

[meisterjedi]

Just did a quick test on PTS numbers vs live, and I have to say I was pretty surprised about the AP changes:

with my current gear (without AP proc relic to make things easier)

 

Imomlate hits for 2970-3126 on live and 3493-3577 on PTS

retractable Blade hits for 1147-1198 on live and 1039-1091 on PTS,

But Bleed went from 264 per tick to 649 per tick (have to check if its the same nnumber of ticks per application later, as this seems rather odd)

and Flamethrower with 1 stack goes from 1620 on live to 1593 on PTS (and 2773 critical to 3204 thanks to the surge buff)

 

So the nerf on dmg is rather minor, while the buffs seem of grater magnitude. On top of that we get 5 heat every 15 sec more on PTS, which will further reduce the amount of rapid shots used and get a nice buff to RP crit chance

Edited August 17, 2013 by meisterjedi

[Ugolino]

So on a scale of 1-10, how kriffed are the diehard Pyrotech players?

[Chickensevil]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6667670

I posted some comparisons on the PTS forums to see roughly where each spec stands. I would have added to other threads, but there were no decent ones on the front page at the time, but I feel like it made more sense to do a comparison in its own location.

[Ottoattack]

I did the math on pyro IM and TD change. Based on numbers from Dodrac http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=671995&page=4, TD has gained 8.85% more damage with face damage increasing by 27.09%. IM damage has decreased by 14.42%. At Dordac current bonus damage, 1,503, the net loss in damage is 14.31. All in all, considering that reduction in cost of IM there might be a damage gain. And then CGC was nerfed, AGAIN. Now its 45% chance of application from flame burst and down from 100%.

 

Now considering the changes, it is beyond any question pyro is nerfed. Considering that pyro is considered one of the worst PvE specs, considering it was parsing around 2,600 in fulls 72s, which is way below current dps leaders; snipers at 3,100 (5%, ya right), and is one of the worst dps specs for PvP (mediocre burst, low sustained and weakest survivability), there is one thing to conclude; either the devs are biased against the class or they are completely incompetent, or both...

 

On another note, AP still revolves around atks that deal below 6K when they critic and flame thrower, so if you think AP might be competitive in PvP 2.4, nothing has changed from live.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Ottoattack

[UltraSayajin]

All PT's must reroll to Mara 4 Arena?

[Brunner_Venda]

We need to make this one of our class questions :

 

PVP

Devs, show us on the doll where the evil pyro powertech touched your poor helpless operative.

 

Serious. They have a serious hang up with out class, what is this, the third or fourth consecutive nerf?

[ceelaniri]

On another note, AP still revolves around atks that deal below 6K when they critic and flame thrower, so if you think AP might be competitive in PvP 2.4, nothing has changed from live.

 

I crited above 6k with Immolate (was 6096..) in an Arena and that was with optimised mix of mostly conq and some partisan stuff so you can get the 6k medal but these attack feel still pretty low damage compared to what other melee classes can crank out. So with the new stuff, it will possible to reach this medals more consistently but then everybody will see their damage increase.

 

definitely a good buff for AP but Pyro is in really bad shape.

 

That d be great if the dev in charge of balance would explain to us what they/he are/is trying to achieve with the Pyro spec and even engage with the community a bit further. That will save everybody a lot o time..