Healers are too powerful in PvP

[AGSThomas]

Nice try Juggernaut pretendind to be a healer and yes I have read your similar posts on the pvp forum you are not fooling anyone with this " I am a healer please nerf me " crap

 

LOL you don't have any alts? How about in all those posts you read of mine, you look for the one where my OP was looking for a rated team.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=669829

 

Most of you are missing the point completely. My assertion has nothing to do whether its possible to kill a healer with 1 or 2 DPS. My point is that the healer shouldn't be the most powerful role where it requires the other team to target the healer or its game over. In terms of strategy, when there is always only one way to play, that's pretty *yawn* And for the people that don't get it that way is: "Kill the healer or lose"

Edited August 13, 2013 by AGSThomas

[Master-Nala]

I assert that it is poor design to have one role stick out over the others. Would there not be more strategy if all three roles were equal in their impact on the particular Warzone?

 

But it doesn't. Healers can't kill very fast and so can't blow up the team to get through the doors in Voidstar, or clear a node for a cap. Healers need tanks to redirect damage from them and the DPS so their heals have time to work. Healers do not stick out over the others. Really good healers can stick out, just like really good DPS or tanks. Operative/Scoundrels are in a good place. Perhaps a tad on the side of overpowered, but they really need support from the rest of the team or they need to be playing against poor players to seem overpowered IMO.

[AGSThomas]

But it doesn't. Healers can't kill very fast and so can't blow up the team to get through the doors in Voidstar, or clear a node for a cap. Healers need tanks to redirect damage from them and the DPS so their heals have time to work. Healers do not stick out over the others. Really good healers can stick out, just like really good DPS or tanks. Operative/Scoundrels are in a good place. Perhaps a tad on the side of overpowered, but they really need support from the rest of the team or they need to be playing against poor players to seem overpowered IMO.

 

Lemme ask you a question. Hypothetically in a 2v2 battle for the door in voidstar. 2 DPS vs A healer and DPS, who will win 95% of the time? This is not balanced. Now on the flipside, lets say the healers output was significantly less but he was a little more tough. Then I think you would see that ratio go down.

[Kilora]

Lemme ask you a question. Hypothetically in a 2v2 battle for the door in voidstar. 2 DPS vs A healer and DPS, who will win 95% of the time? This is not balanced. Now on the flipside, lets say the healers output was significantly less but he was a little more tough. Then I think you would see that ratio go down.

 

 

It IS balanced.

 

2 GOOD DPS would be an even match for a healer/dps combo. As a healer, I do very little DPS. If you can control me long enough to burn down my partner -- I'm easily defeated. If you can burn me down faster than my partner can burn down both of you -- you win. Saying that the DPS/Healer would win 95% of the time is grossly exaggerated.

 

Healer =\= auto-win.

 

Would you also agree that tanks are OP? Because 2 DPS vs. 1 DPS 1 Tank is "unbalanced" as well. How about 2 healers vs 2 DPS? The DPS would win.

 

The entire point of a trinity system is for each combination to have pros and cons. You need to use your brain to defeat healer/dps or healer/tank -- it isn't just "PEWPEWPEW" and dead.

[Savej]

No it doesn't. It takes a coordinated team to kill you plus your tank plus another healer. That's called a team. It should take a team to kill a team.

 

I don't think there is a team of 3 dps that would ever get more than one kill vs 2 healers and a tank in a death match assuming the healers and tank know their classes. I call that silly.

[Xytron]

Right. What my point was is that Healers are so powerful that if you don't mark and burn the game is over. This is poor design.

 

That's not bad design, that's how it should be. There should be no reason why you shouldn't be forced to take out a support character first, if you could take out the dps/tanks first without focusing the healer then why would anyone want a healer? It'd just devolve into who can kill each other first.

[AlexDougherty]

I play an Operative healer and although we are in a really good place right now, I've come to the conclusion that in PvP, Healers are overpowered as a whole. I've seen a poorly played Operative Healer hold off 2 decently played DPS. For me, I consider myself an above average healer and I've been in games where me and a tank have held of 4 or even 5 DPS. In terms of strategy, this kind of kills it. Anyone who has played a rated match knows the name of the game is, who can mark and burn the other teams healers faster. This, I think, is poor design.

 

I have a question to ask the community. When you play a healer, do you not feel that you have more power over how the game goes (huttball maybe excluded) than you do as a DPS? I certainly do. This line of thinking causes DPS to feel inadequate. I think that's why we find some many PvPers raging. I love PvP but healers are out of control. Maybe its expertise, maybe its poor balance, but the I feel the developers should find a way to have the game be less about big crits and burst DPS and more about strategy and timing.

I feel like if two DPS can't take down a "poorly played Operative" they aren't "decent" DPS.

 

It's funny, you'll get threads about 'stunlocking' and 'StunWars' and then people say that an Operative can last against 2 other players. Unless I'm misunderstanding your definition of 'decent' but no matter what DPS characters were talking about here, chances are they have stuns, intterupts, and trauma abilities (-20% healing or something) amongst them. Unless they are totally lost when it comes to their rotations and characters it is easy enough.

 

BTW, healers being powerful roles is working as intended in my books.

 

I have never seen a poorly played anything hold off two decently played anythings, and healers tend to struggle a bit with direct conflict, heals tend to take time, while most damages take LESS time, thus healers take longer to heal less than they are being damaged. At least that's how it appears to me, stuns help but only so much.

[LordArtemis]

Healing is too powerful in PVP. It has always been too powerful in PVP since healing is designed to counter the very intent of PVP...to reduce your enemies health to zero. Any player activity that directly opposes that and is not trivial in effect is too powerful.

 

So in short...this is the nature of PVP. As it always has been. The only way to fix the problem with healing is to play a real PVP game....like Black Ops or ArmA.

 

Just about any other game, especially if connected to an MMO is not a true PVP experience.

[Amera]

This has been much been the constant PvP debate since time immemorial. But that doesn't mean it is a bad one to have - the pendulum tends to swing back and forth before finding a good center.

 

Right now, the PvP metagame is too slow. I think most people who played rated WZs (or even just normal ones) will probably acknowledge this. That's not to say that healers are massively overpowered, but the time-to-kill definitely needs some tweaking (probably 15-20%). Otherwise people respawn too quickly and it becomes too hard to capture a node.

 

The opposite would be where WoW has drifted several times where damage is so high healing is basically worthless. I don't think anyone wants that, but there has to be a compromise somewhere in between.

[alexsamma]

Lemme ask you a question. Hypothetically in a 2v2 battle for the door in voidstar. 2 DPS vs A healer and DPS, who will win 95% of the time? This is not balanced. Now on the flipside, lets say the healers output was significantly less but he was a little more tough. Then I think you would see that ratio go down.

 

Actually that is balenced, healers are force multipliers, they make everyone around them better but in of themselves they can't really do anything themselves so that they can make the people around them shine- take that away and we'll all just roll dps.

 

BTW, the only reason the healer/dps combo should win is through effective use of stuns and healer assisting with damage, if the healer is a "heal-bot" then the dps should win, hands down.

[TheNahash]

Most of you are missing the point completely. My assertion has nothing to do whether its possible to kill a healer with 1 or 2 DPS. My point is that the healer shouldn't be the most powerful role where it requires the other team to target the healer or its game over. In terms of strategy, when there is always only one way to play, that's pretty *yawn* And for the people that don't get it that way is: "Kill the healer or lose"

 

I still don't get why that's wrong or problematic in any way.

 

First of all, all warzones in the game are objective-based. Which means that dps and hps numbers don't mean anything if you just fight somewhere away from the nodes and the enemy team manages to capture and defend them.

 

It's only after you've managed to capture a node that killing the enemy healers is important, which makes 100% sense from a strategic point of view because healers are the support system. You cut your enemies support system, they eventually die.

 

I don't understand, since you seem to consider this boring, how you can believe that making healers not as important would help make the game more interesting, when in reality it would just turn the warzones into a non-stop zergfest where healers are a non-issue and the most overpowered class or best premade would have virtually no fear of losing.

How would senseless fighting be more interesting than what we have now?

[Ocho-Quatro]

I don't feel OP against a team that knows how to mark + focus fire me.

^ that.

 

As a healer, you are a critical member of a PvP team.

 

But wait....

 

So are tanks, because they can guard nodes and protect the healers.

 

But wait....

 

So are DPS, because they can focus fire down the other team's healer(s).

 

My point is... a good pvp team, is comprised of a mix of classes/roles. (Just like a good PvE team.)

 

Have you ever been in a warzone in a team with 4 healers, 3 tanks and 1 dps? I have. No one ever dies, but we don't have the capability to kill the other team either, which means we never capture nodes/objectives.

 

Each class/role has it's place and a job to do, and they all rely on the OTHER classes/roles to do their job also. So if you are a healer in a well organized, good class/role distribution team, playing against a team with no healers, and DPS that don't know to focus you? Yes, you will feel OP. But in fact, what is going on, is that YOUR TEAM for a number of reasons/factors, is just "better" than the other team.

 

Moreover, if you are referring to PvP in the level 54 and below brackets? YES.... healing is insanely OP, because not too many people actually level in a healing spec, because it's slow. So if you are in a healing spec at level 30 and enter a warzone, there's a good chance that you are the only healer on either team, which is going to dramatically shift the scales in your favor.

[metalfenix]

Before you say that healers are overpowered OP, try and roll a commando/merc healer on a warzone and let us know how well you do.

[Benets]

This game pvp is crap to its core.

Need 3 dps to kill a healer, but they can stun your dps too, and interrupt and cc.

 

Just now saw 2 healers that healed 2500 per second on wz.

While top dps was 1100.

 

This game's pvp is fu*** stupid. Only stupid DEV to make it.