Why I think the Empire is better than Republic

[AshlaBoga]

kudos to whoever wrote Satele Shan lines and character, that lady is the biggest hypocrite in the game, constantly insulting jedi left and right yet she has a child of her own :| why cant she go do something other than yell at me lol

 

Well Satele is proof that the Jedi like Troopers so I guess as a member of Havoc Squad I should go court Master Kiwiks.

[Callaron]

Well Satele is proof that the Jedi like Troopers so I guess as a member of Havoc Squad I should go court Master Kiwiks.

 

No one would blame you, Ashla.

To me it showed that Satele is as "human" as the rest of us, even if she likes to pretend that's not the case - something which is expected from the Jedi Grandmaster.

I wonder what would've happened if she hadn't tried to hide her "slip ups" and instead would've tried to change the Jedi Order's ways.

I'm guessing the traditionalists would've removed her from her position long ago.

And as far as Jedi Grandmasters go, Satele isn't the worst you can get - you can be sure she knows about the Jedi Knight and Kira/Doc, but instead of disciplining them she pretends she doesn't see it, which kinda makes me think she's secretely in favor of a Jedi order where hiding such things wouldn't be necessary.

[Nocturnalchemy]

And ironically, Malgus was executed for trying to racially integrate the Empire.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Malgus was likely much less interested in integrating his new Empire for the sake of enlightened racial equality, and much more for the sake of increasing his willing and enthusiastic (as opposed to resentful and enslaved) workforce from 100 billion sentients to a cool trillion.

[AlexDougherty]

Having been playing this game on and off for many weeks I've been switching allegiances like a yo-yo, at some points I wanted to be the good hero (Republic) rather than the villain (Empire) and you would of thought it be doable, but in the Star Wars universe the Republic are a long shot far from being heroic good guys, especially for the Jedi.

 

Sure the Empire has it's own problems, tyranny, slavery, torture, betrayal and lots of death, but lets look on the bright side, at least the Sith are free to show all of their emotions and passions, basically they are allowed to do whatever they like.

Not quite, pay attention to imperial intelligence, who decide if you're loyal or not. They pull people off the streets for random intregations, look for signs of sympathy to rebellions or the republic, So the commoners have to show signs of fanatical devotion to their leaders. The Sith are also limited, look at the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas, there is a tomb for a Sith who espoused idea's similar to the Jedi Code, and was killed for it. Also they Hunt Revanites, and tend to kill enyone not going down the dark path.

 

For the Republics own problems lets start with the Jedi code. Lets be honest, not being allowed to show your emotions and passions just makes you act like a mindless drone.

Jedi Code only applies to Jedi,not to troopers, smugglers or anyone not a Jedi. Besides the Jedi code doesn't prohibit emotions, it merely instructs you to keep them under control. This is the difference between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Return of the Sith, Obi-Wan feels his emotions but controls them, Anakin is ruled by them, and is turned evil because he can't control them.

True peace is impossible to achieve, there's perhaps more truth with the Sith code than the Jedi code.

I disagree, true peace is achievable, not easy but acievable. And as for not controlling your emotions as a force sensitive, madness and the darkside lies that way.

Also it sucks Jedi forbid love for which I feel sorry for those Jedi lovers on Tython, if it weren't banned then their idea of bribery would of never happened.

Pay closer attention to the girl, the lad is more or less in control, but the girl is not, if you refuse to keep it a secret she threatens to kill you, this is not a lass who's staying on the path of enlightenment. If she were in control, her master wouldn't care so much, provided she didn't court openly.

Secondly there's no end of corruption in Coruscant, the big heads are doing nothing for their people, in fact many of them Senators are corrupt themselves which leads to a rather nasty mission where you try to expose one by taking it from a carrier droid and then this guy comes to stop you...to find that the light side choice is to take the out of date information and have a corrupt Senator walk away...WHAT???! How can you be a true hero of the light if you allow things like this?

Yes the Republic is corrupt, but if you play the Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor or Imperial Agent, then you find that the Dark Council is just as corrupt, and at least the Republic Senate has to pretend to be nice. No the Empire is just openly corrupt and evil, not an improvement.

 

Putting the story a side, Empire have better character animations (for instance; lightning > rocks), the Empire classes overall have better storylines than the Republic, British accents are simply sexy and if we include the movies, the best Star Wars character ever is Darth Vader.

The Sith powers do look cooler, and the imperial stories are slightly better. But those accents are not british, not really, there are a few which sound british, but most are copies of the high english accent that has all but died out, as a brit I know. Also Obi-Wan had a British accent, but Vader didn't, his voice was an American actor, the person in the suit had a strong Lancashire accent, and was annoyed when he found he had been dubbed over, but the voice was American.

 

To finally conclude, although I prefer being the hero but sometimes as they say, it's just good to be bad.

[SwoopingLion]

Playing a LS Consular is pretty good for being a "good guy". The story does make you feel like a beacon of honour or whatever amidst a sea of corruption and idiots.

[Kryptonomic]

Oh they knew it was wrong. Why do you think they pretended so hard that that war wasn't about slavery, but instead "States Rights"?

 

They didn't "know it was wrong." They knew that OTHERS thought it was wrong. And if they wanted alliances with Europe -- in order to export cotton and whatnot -- they needed to change the focus. England had also made it clear they would not assist the south if they continued with slavery. So it was about states' rights -- at least in part. One of those rights was, in their view, to practice their "peculiar institution" as it was called.

 

Likewise, I suppose, with the Empire. Many in the Empire may not believe that a "Humans First" attitude is wrong simply because they have been born in, raised with, and indoctrinated from that cultural point of view -- just as those in the southern United States were raised with a view of class differences and ethnic superiority. Those in the Empire may see that while certain actions are not "great", they do at least lead to order of a sort, as opposed perhaps to a democratic republic that can seem chaotic and inefficient when "everyone has a voice."

 

For the Empire to gain allies, they can either seek to overwhelm with power or threaten with power. Or they can seek to establish unity. The Republic, at least, seems to go for the latter. The Empire seems to always go for the former. Whether this makes them "evil" or not is largely irrelevant; what matters is whether it's efficient for its purpose. Generally, if our own world is anything to go by, systems that attempt to impose by power (and fear) alone eventually tend to implode and collapse. (Or they "stabilize" a bit like certain nation states that become entirely insular.)

 

All of this is why, for me, I don't find the Empire inherently "evil", per se. I do find it hard to play pure Sith toons, however, as they do seem -- as someone else said -- to be a bit cartoonishly evil when played Dark Side. I keep waiting for them to yell "Prepare to Die!!!" (a la the old comic book villains).

 

So far the Republic Trooper I'm playing seems really interesting, where the light side and dark side choices actually seem relevant to the situation going on with Ord Mantell. I can see how someone in that position could be swayed to either way.

Edited August 9, 2013 by JeffNyman

[VitalityPrime]

I play both, but the majority of my toons and time are Imperial. Personally I think evil is a point of view. Like you say, atleast the sith and imperials are honest about their feelings. They love who they love, they hate who they hate, and that's that.

 

I've hated the jedi since the Anakin movies. I saw what a pack of hypocrites the Jedi are, and I'd never want to be a part of that. My Jedi is darkside, and I'm fine with that. When you play pub side, you see that they're just as evil and crooked as anyone. There are crooked politicians, there are people doing experiments bordering on torture to people, and even the ever sainted Satele Shan is guilty of looking down her nose at the Voss, just because they think differently than the jedi, means they're closer to being sith. Heh. If I could make my Jedi defect and join the sith, I would.

 

Yeah, I agree with you about the Jedi Counsel in the prequel movies.

 

However, I play as a Jedi and do what I personally think is right.

 

I actually see my Jedi as being the "best" because I am for the side of good...but I'm not so closed minded as to shut off all emotions.

 

Even the small things...such as letting those two padawans have their relationship. Sure, in game you get darkside points for that decision...but I think of it more as my Jedi being better and more open minded than the rest.

[Drudenfusz]

Playing a LS Consular is pretty good for being a "good guy". The story does make you feel like a beacon of honour or whatever amidst a sea of corruption and idiots.

I thought the prologue and the first two chapters of the consular story were pratty lame. I played light side and never felt the stories to become any interesting or especially honourable. The thisr chapter was okay then, but only because it felt then like my character has become a general, coordination the forces and planing in the war, but that was also nothing that I would think as being a beacon of honour.

 

The only class were it felt like everybody around me is corrupt and insane was with the Imperial Agent, if you go there with the light side it really feels great.

 

Anyway, I personally prefer the republic over the empire, not because of anything BioWare did, but because I prefer democracy over tyrany any day, I don't want to be part of such a system. So, regardless how much better the empire looks (and plenty of the imperial stuff looks better in SWTOR than what the reps got) I am just not happy there.

[DmdShiva]

Oh they knew it was wrong. Why do you think they pretended so hard that that war wasn't about slavery, but instead "States Rights"?

 

It's off-topic for the thread, but if you actually research the causes, the South seceded because the Washington government was maintaining high import duties in an attempt to keep the relatively unindustrialized South as a captive market for Northern industries (the issue of slavery was divisive, and helped push the southern states to secession, but it was not the most important reason), and the war began because the Federal government held the position that, having joined the United States, the southern states had forever given up their right to break away again. In a letter to Horace Greely, Lincoln wrote "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." And the Union soldiers were not fighting to end slavery; in fact, after the Emancipation Proclamation, the Union Army suffered large numbers of desertions by soldiers who had been willing to fight to preserve the Union, but not to end slavery.

[RocketeerRaccoon]

So from looking at these comments so far, many say the Empire isn't worth switching to because of the higher amount of psychopathic evil while others welcome the Empire. Now I don't know what to play now.

[Blackardin]

For the Republics own problems lets start with the Jedi code. Lets be honest, not being allowed to show your emotions and passions just makes you act like a mindless drone.

 

Do you read these boards often? To be honest, I'd much rather a thread with a contention and no emotion then the drama induced chaos, personal attacks, offense taken at even a suggestion by those that utilize emotion as a weapon of control.

 

The Jedi may not be perfect, but I would not contend that the Sith philosophy is superior in any way.

[Blackardin]

So from looking at these comments so far, many say the Empire isn't worth switching to because of the higher amount of psychopathic evil while others welcome the Empire. Now I don't know what to play now.

 

Play that which accommodates your alter ego. Do you enjoy randomly killing men, women, and children for no apparent reason after they have aided you? Do you enjoy rescuing those in distress, saving one from such a fate as listed above (in fantasy of course)?

 

I play empire because my guild, my friends play that side, but I am more in-tune and feel more natural playing the hero role on republic side so many of my alts are over there.

[Nocturnalchemy]

In the end, what it boils down to is that the Jedi Order counsels its members to completely deny the influence of their own emotions, while the Sith demand that their members abandon all sense of personal restraint. Neither is actually tenable as a way of life. As to the larger issue of the Republic versus the Empire, it's pretty easy for the Empire to consistently embody its own principles and still be realistic enough that we can accept it as a form of government that could form on an interstellar scale; if the Republic actually lived up to its ideals all the time, however, we'd have to cry foul - no government on that scale can possibly consist entirely of selfless, courageous, compassionate, honorable people. Without at least a few bad apples, it's fair to say that the Republic probably couldn't even function, as political realities don't always mesh well with the righteous celebration of pure and uncompromising democracy. Edited August 9, 2013 by Nocturnalchemy

[Spatology]

Having been playing this game on and off for many weeks I've been switching allegiances like a yo-yo, at some points I wanted to be the good hero (Republic) rather than the villain (Empire) and you would of thought it be doable, but in the Star Wars universe the Republic are a long shot far from being heroic good guys, especially for the Jedi.

 

Sure the Empire has it's own problems, tyranny, slavery, torture, betrayal and lots of death, but lets look on the bright side, at least the Sith are free to show all of their emotions and passions, basically they are allowed to do whatever they like.

 

For the Republics own problems lets start with the Jedi code. Lets be honest, not being allowed to show your emotions and passions just makes you act like a mindless drone. True peace is impossible to achieve, there's perhaps more truth with the Sith code than the Jedi code. Also it sucks Jedi forbid love for which I feel sorry for those Jedi lovers on Tython, if it weren't banned then their idea of bribery would of never happened. Secondly there's no end of corruption in Coruscant, the big heads are doing nothing for their people, in fact many of them Senators are corrupt themselves which leads to a rather nasty mission where you try to expose one by taking it from a carrier droid and then this guy comes to stop you...to find that the light side choice is to take the out of date information and have a corrupt Senator walk away...WHAT???! How can you be a true hero of the light if you allow things like this?

 

Putting the story a side, Empire have better character animations (for instance; lightning > rocks), the Empire classes overall have better storylines than the Republic, British accents are simply sexy and if we include the movies, the best Star Wars character ever is Darth Vader.

 

To finally conclude, although I prefer being the hero but sometimes as they say, it's just good to be bad.

 

How does it feel to be so utterly wrong?

[Cyberwoman]

Having played it for around a year, I have come to the conclusion that while I do play both sides, the Empire is certainly my favored faction.

 

As the OP mentioned, the Jedi are basically mindless and very judgmental drones. They fear and repress emotions and love, the most beautiful aspects of life in my opinion. They preach that they wish to learn about other cultures, yet they seem rather close-minded and fearful of difference and change, like many real life religious organizations. The Sith on the other hand are free and embrace there passions and emotions, despite there inherently cruel nature. I find the whole gothic culture and Sith idea far more fascinating then the more religious nature of the Jedi. The Jedi Code sounds like a prayer of repression, unlike the Sith Code which is about braking ones chains.

 

I don't side with the idea that if you play Empire you're just evil. Many people stereotype the factions, but I find it very interesting playing as a light side on the Empire. You can explore and discover that not everyone or every aspect of the Empire is evil and psychotic (The Imperial Agent storyline is a great example of this). I find that you can discover a realistic 'grey' morality on the side of the Empire, one which doesn't seem to really exist much on the Republic side. It never feels like you can really go dark or stray from the path. Dark side decisions seem kept to bribery and killing the few for the good of the many, rather the exploring actual morality of the characters and going against the norm.

 

All that being said, playing a insane Dark-side Sith can be great fun too!

 

I also find the planetary and class quests more interesting on the Empire side and I like the darker style and feel to the places and environment! (It may all have something to do with the British accents! )

 

So from looking at these comments so far, many say the Empire isn't worth switching to because of the higher amount of psychopathic evil while others welcome the Empire. Now I don't know what to play now.

 

The answer is simple, play whatever faction you want. Sod what everyone else says, you're playing the game for yourself. Pick whichever you enjoy most, or do both. It's entirely up to you!

Edited August 9, 2013 by Cyberwoman

[Darth_Moonshadow]

The Empire is better than the Republic because we wear capes.

 

Chicks dig the cape.

[Drudenfusz]

The Empire is better than the Republic because we wear capes.

 

Chicks dig the cape.

You didn't watched The Incredibles? It is never a good idea to wear one! But in SWTOR you can find them on both isdes, luckily you also find enough gear on both sides that doesn't have capes (not one of my chracters has one). Also they clip terrible with quite a few speeder in SWTOR.

[DmdShiva]

As the OP mentioned, the Jedi are basically mindless and very judgmental drones. They fear and repress emotions and love, the most beautiful aspects of life in my opinion. They preach that they wish to learn about other cultures, yet they seem rather close-minded and fearful of difference and change, like many real life religious organizations. The Sith on the other hand are free and embrace there passions and emotions, despite there inherently cruel nature. I find the whole gothic culture and Sith idea far more fascinating then the more religious nature of the Jedi. The Jedi Code sounds like a prayer of repression, unlike the Sith Code which is about braking ones chains.

 

If you look closely, the Jedi Order is more centered on fear than the Sith Order is. "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." With the example of the darkest Sith -- and the Jedi who fell to the Dark Side -- as examples, it's perhaps understandable that the Jedi Order has fixated on strong emotion being a path to the Dark Side. What is reprehensible, however, is that they have latched onto repression as their sole tool for preventing members of the Order from being controlled by those emotions, because by doing so, they have prevented them from learning about them -- to understand what these emotions are and how to control them, rather than letting them control you. The Sith Order is unconcerned about control of these emotions -- the more powerful they are, the more power they can tap. But the Jedi also never learn to control these emotions; all they learn is how to repress them, so that when they are put in situations where they can't repress them, those emotions are more likely to overwhelm them and carry them over to the Dark Side. Emotions are a part of all living things, and an integral part of the Force -- if they were not, the Force would not respond so readily to the Sith. And people will fight harder, and muster more resolve and determination, for something or someone that they care about than for someone or something that they have no emotional attachment to; the Jedi Order, by repressing all emotional attachments, is limiting the full effectiveness of their members.

 

Which isn't to say that the Sith aren't handicapping themselves; letting yourself be ruled by your emotions leads you to make decisions based on what will feed those emotions in the short term, not based on what is best in the long term. Kel'eth Ur was right; fear and anger are good short-term and immediate sources of power, but the feedback involved in feeding those emotions makes the Sith Order as a whole inherently less capable of planning and carrying out long-term plans. While individual Sith may achieve enough control over their emotions to be able to sacrifice immediate gains for long-term benefit, they still have to deal with the assassination-based jockeying for position that is a constant undercurrent in the Order -- and which carries over to the Empire as a whole. The Jedi may be less powerful individually, but they can cooperate better and work more effectively toward long-range goals. Unfortunately, there's no visible organization for those who would take a middle ground -- accepting their emotions as part of themselves, learning how to control them and use them to expand their control of the Force, rather than either cutting themselves off from their emotions or letting their emotions rule them.

 

Dark side decisions seem kept to bribery and killing the few for the good of the many, rather the exploring actual morality of the characters and going against the norm.

 

And the motivation behind some of the decisions don't always fit with whether a choice is light or dark. For example, one quest on Korriban has you recovering the body of an acolyte who failed a test in one of the tombs and bringing it back to his father, a guard for the Dark Council. My first run through the conversation, I chose lying to him and telling him that his son died bravely and well, figuring that by feeding his ego that his son wasn't an utter failure, it might leave him more favorably disposed toward me, which could be useful in the future -- a selfish decision aimed at furthering my own goals, being willing to lie my head off for my own benefit. This, however, was the light decision (and, at the time, you didn't get the little light or dark icons on the choices); telling him flat out that his son died a complete failure was the dark side choice, apparently because helping to crush his self-respect was more 'dark' than lying to him for a potential future benefit.

[Prabhunath]

The empire has no assault cannons. 'Nuff said. Edited August 9, 2013 by Prabhunath

[smartalectwo]

The Jedi Code is really very cool when you boil it down. People take it literally, but it's not supposed to tell you what to do. It's to tell you how to do it. Let's boil this down:

 

- Don't let emotions get in the way of your thinking.

- Try to know what you need to know. Keep an open mind, don't assume.

- Don't get fixated on stuff, it means you miss things.

- Everything you do is going to have a consequence. Act accordingly.

- Nothing ever ends; it just changes. Even the worst of tragedies is just a moment in time.

 

That's a very effective philosophy with which to live your life.

 

It just becomes even more awesome when there's genuinely a spiritual power in the background of the universe that you can tune into. The whole point of the Jedi philosophy is that it's not about personal power, it's about trusting that this vast benevolent Force will see you right if you put yourself in its hands. Sith have the power, Jedi have the guidance.

 

That's why the Jedi always win in the long run.

Edited August 10, 2013 by smartalectwo

[Amera]

People focus WAY too much on the emotional repression angle and not enough on the fact that Sith are sociopathic monsters.

 

I mean, if you want to debate the emotions thing on its own, great. But seriously, as a whole the Sith are enslaving, murdering, ****** lunatics. The fact that some Jedi make bad decisions is not even remotely equatable.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Amera

[Nocturnalchemy]

That's why the Jedi always win in the long run.

 

To be fair (and perhaps a bit more accurate), the Jedi always defeat the Sith after the Sith rise to near-total power, whereupon the Jedi return to great prominence in the galaxy, only to fall eventually to indolence and arrogance, once again giving birth to a Sith order.

[smartalectwo]

To be fair (and perhaps a bit more accurate), the Jedi always defeat the Sith after the Sith rise to near-total power, whereupon the Jedi return to great prominence in the galaxy, only to fall eventually to indolence and arrogance, once again giving birth to a Sith order.

 

To put it another way, then - no matter what happens, the natural Force always finds a way to keep flowing, even when the Dark Side thinks it's definitely won. And since that's what the Jedi want, it's a win!

[Cyberwoman]

The Jedi Code is really very cool when you boil it down. People take it literally, but it's not supposed to tell you what to do. It's to tell you how to do it. Let's boil this down:

 

- Don't let emotions get in the way of your thinking.

- Try to know what you need to know. Keep an open mind, don't assume.

- Don't get fixated on stuff, it means you miss things.

- Everything you do is going to have a consequence. Act accordingly.

- Nothing ever ends; it just changes. Even the worst of tragedies is just a moment in time.

 

That's a very effective philosophy with which to live your life.

 

But the Jedi don't seem to actually teach it that way. They actively repress emotions, hence why they ban love and relationships. They don't face or understand these natural urges, nor learn how to stop them controlling them, they simply repress, and that is rarely ever a good thing. Jedi seem rather closed minded in many areas despite there teachings (Ever tried playing a Light side Sith and trying to reason with a Jedi? Very rarely works . . .) Also . . .

 

 

I just landed on Voss with my JK, and in a conversation with the head Jedi person, she seemed to really dislike the fact that the Voss refused the Jedi Code. When my character (Dark side) brought up the fact that they are not evil because of this . . . the Jedi head person didn't seem to agree. That smells more like 'Do things our way, or you are evil' a very closed minded look on things. Now admittedly I am unsure how the Voss storyline will workout, so I could be jumping ahead.

 

 

Not saying the Code is a bad thing or anything, I just think it is a flawed way of looking at the world.

 

It just becomes even more awesome when there's genuinely a spiritual power in the background of the universe that you can tune into. The whole point of the Jedi philosophy is that it's not about personal power, it's about trusting that this vast benevolent Force will see you right if you put yourself in its hands. Sith have the power, Jedi have the guidance.

 

That's why the Jedi always win in the long run.

 

That is another thing about the Jedi I have come to dislike with age, its parallels with religion. Still, I guess that's a totally different matter for a different thread really.

 

People focus WAY too much on the emotional repression angle and not enough on the fact that Sith are sociopathic monsters.

 

I mean, if you want to debate the emotions thing on its own, great. But seriously, as a whole the Sith are enslaving, murdering, ****** lunatics. The fact that some Jedi make bad decisions is not even remotely equatable.

 

Not every Sith is like that though, and not every non-Sith (IA and BH) agrees with them or there methods. The Jedi and Republic have there fair share of monster too, I mean . . .

 

 

Revan was going to commit genocide on the Sith Pureblood and Empire!

 

 

To put it another way, then - no matter what happens, the natural Force always finds a way to keep flowing, even when the Dark Side thinks it's definitely won. And since that's what the Jedi want, it's a win!

 

That's a point, the Jedi keep saying they want to bring balance to the Force, yet there version of balance seems to be a total annihilation of the Dark side with only the Light remaining. That doesn't seem very balanced to me . . .

Edited August 10, 2013 by Cyberwoman

[Amera]

Not every Sith is like that though, and not every non-Sith (IA and BH) agrees with them or there methods. The Jedi and Republic have there fair share of monster too, I mean . . .

 

Just because both sides of a conflict have monsters doesn't mean they are equally bad. That's a really terrible false equivalency. Example: Allied soldiers assaulted and murdered plenty of civilians during WW2 (and every other war); does that mean the Allies and Axis were effectively the same? No.

 

Anyway, let's face it: the only reason the Sith keep coming back is because the Star Wars IP needs to keep selling material, and that means constantly introducing new eras and books and comic lines and and and...

Edited August 10, 2013 by Amera