Juggernaut suggestions for our Representative

[GalenMourne]

The underlying problem is the threat drop, Every other class has a free threat drop with assassins/operatives the best of all giving 100% threat drop aswell as secondary benifits from stealthing. Having a threat drop tied to another ability that costs resources is crazy. Jugs need a totally separate threat drop equal to the other classes ( chaff flare/countermeasures etc ) on a 45sec CD.

 

If you are worried about ED becoming yet another tank CD, well, it already is in many respects, threat has 0 impact at all in PvP so it can be used without thought, and a decent immortal tank can find uses for it already in PvE especially since u can offset alot of the threat lost with clever use of taunts, even now its the best CD to deal with lightning field damage on Dread Guards NiM, it practically offsets all the dmg except the last hit.

 

Also i think people are over estimating how much it actually heals on a single target boss you are lucky to get 4-5 ticks in the 10sec it lasts, thats only 12-15% health and that is totally relying upon u saving rage for the heal running the risk of letting crushing blow/retaliation buffs dropping off, which are better than a tiny heal, And in an AOE tanking situation, outside of reflect jugs have the weakest mitigation anyway with the lowest shield/absorb so a couple more heal ticks from ED really isnt going to throw the balance out the window.

 

Adding a flat DR across the board is certainly going to make it worse., Vengeance and Rage both have skill points specifically Linked to Enraged Def, THAT is where any DR buffs should be added like vengeance already has.

 

Personally i already like how the heal mechanic works, Even the rage spent per heal is fine, as it is you need to be clever about when and how you use it to get the most out of it, where as adding a flat DR % and a flat heal% to it is just gonna turn it into another "o-****" CD.

 

The one thing i do like though is adding a longer Cooldown on it as Base and using the skill points in Venge/Rage to reduce that back down. i think 2minutes is too long, 90secs the same as Endure Pain as they work very well together.

 

So tbh,

Remove the threat drop completely

Increase base CD to 90secs

Remove the initial rage cost

Keep the rage spent per 3% heal on taking damage with 1sec internal CD.

Add a 22.5/45 second CD per point to "Deafening defense" in Vengeance Tree

Add a 22.5/45 second CD per point to "Through passion" in the Rage tree

 

Now for me, the main question is Do we give "Through passion" the same DR % base as Vengeance, or do people want it to be more unique to the Rage tree, since Vengeance has more DR overall with "unstoppable" ?

 

Someone already proposed a high DR buff with it reducing rapidly over time, i quite like this idea, but i have another one which is abit crazy and would be totally unique to rage:

 

Through Passion - Reduces the active CD of Enraged Defense by 22.5/45 second per point, in addition Enraged Defense Grants 3 stacks of ( insert appropriate buff name ) increasing Damage reduction by 25%, Stacks are consumed when taking Direct damage ( basically not dots ) Lasts 10 seconds

 

Again these are just personal opinions/ideas based on playing experience and looking at the ideas already in this thread.

 

As to the point that this thread is supposedly going off topic, i think the community brain storming, raising ideas and concerns is the best way for the Class Rep to construct his Questions to put to the Devs as and when he does. Just looking over the posts there are already 2 "questions" that are high up there, the 3rd not so clear.

 

My view so far is

Question 1 - Enraged defense: how it works for all 3 classes and the threat drop. Was it designed as a PvP ability with the threat drop for PvE thrown in as an after thought?

Question 2 - Rampage Proc: should it Be as RnG based as it is already? was ravage intended as the Focus of the spec or is it Just a Gimic/Bonus

Question 3. no idea........ Slows? Chilling scream is definately not inline with other class slows in my opinion after the change to make it free/low global not available to all specs, Yes its aoe, yes it has no CD but it costs a global and alot of resource. virtually every class has a passive slow attached to 1 or more abilities.

 

Rage is Fine as it is. it has Oppressor , the most mobile dmg of the specs, and escape from roots with obliterate

 

Vengeance needs a passive slow fixed to one or more of its bleeds, the 15% movement boost to shien form was a good start but still not enough having to rely on chilling scream with is high rage cost Adding a 50% slow to the bleed from impale would work, would last 6seconds and can be applied every ~9seconds, would only ever effect 1 target at a time.

 

Immortal, adding a 6second 30% slow to "Crushing Fist" would be great, PvE tanks dont take ( or shouldnt ) thrown gauntlet so a slow attached to smash without having to waste a global on Chilling scream, which could be used in getting threat. 30% in PvP isnt exactly game breaking and Chilling scream will overwrite it with a more powerful slow, at the cost of a global

 

Going to lay out a small experiment/math lesson showing potential numbers over a 6 minute fight.

 

Juggernaut with 36,000 HP

Assassin with 37,000 HP

 

Juggernaut sonic barrier: effective healing every 12 sec = 1400-1500(will go with 1450). Over 6 minutes with 30 uses= 43,500

Enraged defense: for this experiment we will use 9% as an average. Over 6 minute fight with 8 uses = 25,920

Total = 69,420

 

Assassin force lightning heal of 8% used roughly every 15 seconds over a 6 minute fight with 24 uses = 71,040

 

Difference 71, 040-6,9420 = 1,620

 

If you add in endure pain every other enraged defense with 36000 HP the juggs number goes up by 3888

 

If you don't see a problem with the self healing, lower armor tank only healing 1,620 HP more once a immortal tank gets unrestricted use of enraged defense than you you have no sense at all. Especially when enrage is on the same 45 second cool down and is largely unneeded now to maintain rage. The use of one Assault gives you the 7 rage necessary to heal that 9% every 45 seconds. Just removing the threat reduction and leaving enraged defense as is will lead to this very outcome.

 

P.S. this isn't possible now with the number of taunt switches on the most difficult bosses in the game. The threat dump prevents it from happening. I'm all for giving the class a real threat dump, but enraged defense needs to be redesigned and given a long cool down for immortal if it is done.

Edited August 4, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Marb]

Ok so now that we have all pretty much discussed solutions to these issues I think we can all agree what our questions should be about. Now number 3 is the only tank question I could think off, because we are in a very good place at present. Now because each AC will get to rotate, we will effectively be given the opportunity to ask 6 questions, so It would be a good Idea to coordinate with the Guard rep to ensure we don't double up on questions.

 

 

 

• PvE) Vengeance lives and dies by its rampage proc. The dps difference between a good proc streak and a bad one seems to vary significantly, with vengeance dps only topping out with some very good luck. We recognize that the proc makes our spec more dynamic and fun to play, but we would all prefer a little more consistency in our parses. Would you guys consider making some changes in order to make vengeance less reliant on pure luck?
   
   
  
• PvP) Enraged Defense is an awkward cooldown when comparing its rage cost to its benefits. In pvp, juggs feel that it's not as effective as it should be when used as a defensive tool considering the total amount of rage that is consumed for its full effect. In pve, we feel the threat drop component is not worth the rage cost to use it exclusively for that purpose. What is the intent behind the rage cost of Enraged Defense, and are there any plans to revisit its design?
   
   
  
• General) Juggernaut tanks are the only tank class that has to spend resources and a global cooldown to apply an aoe snare in the form of a separate ability; chilling scream. Many jugg tanks feel that applying an aoe snare is too costly when taking into account our melee range restrictions. We can spec to reduce its rage cost, but that still leaves the issue of its GCD, which makes its use problematic in PvE when tanking large groups. Is this design intentional? Would you guys consider re-thinking this in order to make chilling scream a more attractive ability for Immortal Juggernauts?
  

Edited August 4, 2013 by Marb

[GalenMourne]

Ok so now that we have all pretty much discussed solutions to these issues I think we can all agree what our questions should be about. Now number 3 is the only tank question I could think off, because we are in a very good place at present. Now because each AC will get to rotate, we will effectively be given the opportunity to ask 6 questions, so It would be a good Idea to coordinate with the Guard rep to ensure we don't double up on questions.

 

 

 

• 1) Vengeance lives and dies by its rampage proc. The dps difference between a good proc streak and a bad one seems to vary significantly, with vengeance dps topping out with very good luck. We recognize that the proc makes our spec more dynamic and fun to play, but we would all prefer a little more consistency in our parses. What are the devs thoughts on this?
   
   
  
• 2) Enraged Defense is on odd and awkward cooldown when comparing its cost to what it does. Many pve juggs feel the threat drop component is not worth the rage cost to use. On the pvp side of things, juggs feel that its not as effective as it should be when used as a defensive tool when compared to its very heavy rage cost. What is the intent behind the rage cost of Enraged Defense, and are there any plans to revisit its design?
   
   
  
• 3) Juggernaut tanks are the only tank class that has to spend resources and a global cooldown to apply an aoe snare in the form of a separate ability, chilling scream. Many jugg tanks feel that being the most restricted to 4m compared to the other tanks, that applying an aoe snare should not be as costly as it currently is. We can spec to reduce its rage cost, but that still leaves to issue of its GCD. What do you guys think about this?
  

 

Not bad, i could get behind those question.

[ssfish]

It's been quite some time, so maybe I'm misremembering, but did not Immortal used to have a talent to reduce rage cost and GCD of the AoE snare? I seem to recall it being just spammed non-stop in Huttball matches back in the day.

[Marb]

It's been quite some time, so maybe I'm misremembering, but did not Immortal used to have a talent to reduce rage cost and GCD of the AoE snare? I seem to recall it being just spammed non-stop in Huttball matches back in the day.

 

Correct, it was a lower mid tier immortal talent that made it rage free and have a 0.5 sec GCD, and was a common component of hybrid pvp tank builds. After 2.0 the rage cost reduction is present with Thrown Gauntlet in the tank tree, and the GCD reduction has been attached to force charge, obliterate and intercede for rage juggernauts via the Oppressor skill.

 

Its prior implementation was problematic for the reason you described, but I think having a single rage free, GCD free chilling scream cast after our charge would be a modest addition if it was placed high enough up in the tank tree. That would be the ideal solution.

 

Edited the questions to better fit the format that Bioware wants.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Marb

[UncleOst]

Ok so now that we have all pretty much discussed solutions to these issues I think we can all agree what our questions should be about. Now number 3 is the only tank question I could think off, because we are in a very good place at present. Now because each AC will get to rotate, we will effectively be given the opportunity to ask 6 questions, so It would be a good Idea to coordinate with the Guard rep to ensure we don't double up on questions.

 

Hold on Marb, while I personally commend you for stepping up and continuing the movement, I feel there is still much to be settled. I do agree that we should co-ordinate with the guardian counterparts, that is an excellent idea.

 

• PvE) Vengeance lives and dies by its rampage proc. The dps difference between a good proc streak and a bad one seems to vary significantly, with vengeance dps only topping out with some very good luck. We recognize that the proc makes our spec more dynamic and fun to play, but we would all prefer a little more consistency in our parses. Would you guys consider making some changes in order to make vengeance less reliant on pure luck?
   
  You are on the right track, but your question lacks specifics. I'd personally condense it and provide a link to our eventual "improved Rampage" proposal. We need to remember that these changes should be for both pvp and pve.
  
   
  
• PvP) Enraged Defense is an awkward cooldown when comparing its rage cost to its defensive benefits. In pvp, juggs feel that its not as effective as it should be when used as a defensive tool considering its very heavy rage cost (and pve juggs feel the threat drop component is not worth the rage cost to use it exclusively for that purpose). What is the intent behind the rage cost of Enraged Defense, and are there any plans to revisit its design? I tried to re-frame this question to be about pvp specifically to better fit the format that Bioware would prefer for the questions.
   
   
  Once again, I'd condense it and deliver specific links to our "Base Enraged Defense" version and the three updated versions of how "Enraged Defense" could work better for juggernaut pvp/pve gameplay, within each spec respectively.
   
   
   
  
• General) Juggernaut tanks are the only tank class that has to spend resources and a global cooldown to apply an aoe snare in the form of a separate ability; chilling scream. Many jugg tanks feel that applying an aoe snare is too costly when taking into account our melee range restrictions. We can spec to reduce its rage cost, but that still leaves the issue of its GCD. Is this design intentional? Would you guys consider re-thinking this in order to make chilling scream a more attractive ability for Immortal Juggernauts?
   
   
  Do we really want the Juggernaut dynamic to revolve around a request such as this? Sure, we could ask for 100 changes, but with no disrespect, "Chilling Scream" revamps are not a priority. We need to leave the third question open for more debate and worthwhile suggestions, otherwise rely on our Jedi counterparts.
  

 

 

Once again Marb, I apologize, for I mean no offence towards your efforts thus far. Once we can all come to a mutual agreement on RAMPAGE SPECIFICS, ENRAGED DEFENSE SPECIFICS, (enter a third topic), we must then create a new Finalized version of these in a clear and concise New thread, which our representative must create.

 

 

Edit:...sigh, I'm not sure if it was all even worth the effort. I think there was too little involvement, and perhaps the effort is all-for-not. Typically, we could ask 3 questions and have all three shutdown lol. This a deep and delicate topic in my eyes, which is why I tried to stay involved as much as I could the last few days. We should create that finalized "three question thread"....and soon.

Edited August 4, 2013 by UncleOst

[Marb]

The questions have to be general. I think you are misunderstanding. We are not supposed to be suggesting solutions to our issues. You want to specify how enraged defense should function, instead of explaining our concerns with its current implementation as it is in the game. I doubt armchair game design is what the goal of the class rep program is.

 

We can ask 1 PvE question, 1 PvP question and a general question. If you can think of a better general question, go for it.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Marb

[UncleOst]

The questions have to be general. I think you are misunderstanding. We are not supposed to be suggesting solutions to our issues. You want to specify how enraged defense should function, instead of explaining our concerns with its current implementation as it is in the game. I doubt armchair game design is what the goal of the class rep program is.

 

We can ask 1 PvE question, 1 PvP question and a general question. If you can think of a better general question, go for it.

 

Fair enough. Like I said, I've tried to assist as much as I could, and I see that even from my opening statement, the flow of the thread went fairly true to course.

 

My third topic would be also for the Vengeance tree's "Seething Hatred". It would include a request for this ability to be re-evaluated and to perhaps include a dps related change, or a synergy with an existing ability. But even then does it matter lol. I've spent enough time away from game with this endevour and it has been great fun. Cheers to what the future brings. I'll be on my jug

Edited August 4, 2013 by UncleOst

[Marb]

Fair enough. Like I said, I've tried to assist as much as I could, and I see that even from my opening statement, the flow of the thread went fairly true to course.

 

My third topic would be also for the Vengeance tree's "Seething Hatred". It would include a request for this ability to be re-evaluated and to perhaps include a dps related change, or a synergy with an existing ability.

 

On a per skill basis, I would also like to see dead weight talents like this be given some attention. All three of our trees are littered with them.

 

EDIT: I agree that a suggestion about tanks and chilling scream is trivial. I'm having trouble thinking of an issue for tanks that is pressing enough to ask about, but as a tank I honestly can't think of one.

 

It may cross over into the enraged defense question, but I would like to see focus get some more defensive utility, and I wouldn't be in opposition to making the aoe pressure rage can apply more difficult to execute. Rage doesn't have an issue with applying too much aoe damage, it has an issue with how easy it is to play.

 

But... perhaps this isn't even an issue at all, and Rage is actually quite well balanced in the current implementation. They are simple to play, and can apply spectacular aoe pressure and burst, but have no staying power and poor defensive tools, requiring team support to be effective.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Marb

[Shadowhispers]

Going to lay out a small experiment/math lesson showing potential numbers over a 6 minute fight.

 

Juggernaut with 36,000 HP

Assassin with 37,000 HP

 

Juggernaut sonic barrier: effective healing every 12 sec = 1400-1500(will go with 1450). Over 6 minutes with 30 uses= 43,500

Enraged defense: for this experiment we will use 9% as an average. Over 6 minute fight with 8 uses = 25,920

Total = 69,420

 

Assassin force lightning heal of 8% used roughly every 15 seconds over a 6 minute fight with 24 uses = 71,040

 

Difference 71, 040-6,9420 = 1,620

 

If you add in endure pain every other enraged defense with 36000 HP the juggs number goes up by 3888

 

If you don't see a problem with the self healing, lower armor tank only healing 1,620 HP more once a immortal tank gets unrestricted use of enraged defense than you you have no sense at all. Especially when enrage is on the same 45 second cool down and is largely unneeded now to maintain rage. The use of one Assault gives you the 7 rage necessary to heal that 9% every 45 seconds. Just removing the threat reduction and leaving enraged defense as is will lead to this very outcome.

 

P.S. this isn't possible now with the number of taunt switches on the most difficult bosses in the game. The threat dump prevents it from happening. I'm all for giving the class a real threat dump, but enraged defense needs to be redesigned and given a long cool down for immortal if it is done.

 

Sorry to put a massive dent in your argument, but for starters i proposed to to increase the base CD on enraged defense to 90sec, which already cuts the heals in half, putting assassin ahead.

 

And on top of that, you seemed to have glossed over the fact that assassins also heal 15% using overcharge saber, (2min CD) thats already another 16650heals, AND on top of that dark charge? i just logged my Sin to get the number, and its 50% change to heal 358 every 4.5secs. thats potentially another 28640 over a 6min fight so....

 

thats 116,330-healing for the Sin

Vs

69,420-healing for the jug

thats 46,910 healing difference with enraged defense staying the same CD. 59,870 difference if u double the CD

[Icebergy]

Personally my only issue with Jugg tanking at present is that we need some form of knockback protection. I think in every other area we are in a very good place.

 

I don't know who's idea it was that they thought it was fun for tanks to get CCed for 10+seconds during trash pulls in FPs and Ops, but it is not fun. It is the opposite of fun. I do not want to be a pinball, I want to tank. I can't do my job when I am flying through the air for the entire fight.

 

Oh and I would also love it if they made Enraged Defense useful for tanking. Maybe make it so it does not drop threat in Soresu form?

[UncleOst]

Can we get our guard and jug reps to collaborate? We need to start a new official "3 concerns list" in a new thread.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

I've thrown our two big concerns over to the guardian thread.

 

Topic 1... Rampage revamp

Topic 2... Enraged defense revamp for each tree.

 

Topic 3, I had left that open for possible synergies with guards, for the general quality of life improvements will of course benefit us all. Please post ideas for topic 3 with them as well, for the time to collaborate is NOW. Thanks.

Edited August 4, 2013 by UncleOst

[SkiaTheShade]

I just want to see something happen with 1 of 2 things:

 

1. Enraged Defense gets changed somehow, right now it's entirely useless unless specced vengeance.

 

2. Give us a slow that's physical, maybe that should just be in Rage spec. Marauder's in Rage have a slow on Charge and Obliterate passively. They also have a ranged slow on Duel Saber Throw, and a melee slow (I forgot the name of the ability). Only healers can cleanse this (if not I'm mistaken). We as Juggernauts get Chilling Scream. Great, they have to be in melee, I can't get the ability off if I get knocked back the second I charge (happens 50% of the time), and it can be cleansed by DPS. Perhaps adding a slow to Saber Throw? I know Chilling Scream is AOE and no CD so it is QUITE good in a lot of uses. But I feel like Marauders get the better deal here. I think adding a 50% 6 sec slow on Saber Throw would be amazing. 30 CD so it can't be spammed. That gives us something to do when we get knocked back and kited forever.

 

That's my thoughts. If anyone has a constructive rebuttal I'm all ears!

[arkitip]

The questions have to be general. I think you are misunderstanding. We are not supposed to be suggesting solutions to our issues. You want to specify how enraged defense should function, instead of explaining our concerns with its current implementation as it is in the game. I doubt armchair game design is what the goal of the class rep program is.

 

We can ask 1 PvE question, 1 PvP question and a general question. If you can think of a better general question, go for it.

 

This is the point I was trying to make earlier, and the questions you've formed are along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

The only thing I could add to the Vengeance question is that not only is the spec reliant on the Rampage proc, it also doesn't have a spammable ability that procs it like Mercs and PTs do with Barrage and PPA while maintaining a lower proc rate than either of those abilities as well.

[UncleOst]

This is the point I was trying to make earlier, and the questions you've formed are along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

The only thing I could add to the Vengeance question is that not only is the spec reliant on the Rampage proc, it also doesn't have a spammable ability that procs it like Mercs and PTs do with Barrage and PPA while maintaining a lower proc rate than either of those abilities as well.

 

Well as many have stated, the specifics are trivial, for we must simply provide "targets" for the developers. Took me awhile, lol, but I finally accepted that fact.

 

Once again, my idea for the new Rampage, would look like this:

 

Rampage, lowers the cooldown of Ravage by 3 seconds per point, and includes a 30% chance to proc " Rampage" , which additionally grants (insert amount [9% ?]) melee crit boost, exhausted on the next successful melee strike.

[Marb]

This is the point I was trying to make earlier, and the questions you've formed are along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

The only thing I could add to the Vengeance question is that not only is the spec reliant on the Rampage proc, it also doesn't have a spammable ability that procs it like Mercs and PTs do with Barrage and PPA while maintaining a lower proc rate than either of those abilities as well.

 

I understand where you were coming from.

 

And in UncleOst's defense, a brief reference to one or two proposed changes wouldn't be out of the question, as long as they could be brief and made to flow as part of the overall question, without launching into links to paragraphs and dot points of "what you should do to fix it".

 

There is a similar thing happening in the guard forum where there are no actual questions being put forth for group review. Also I don't want to give the impression that I am trying to muscle in on the actual class reps job, I am just getting concerned that we are not putting forth questions. The sniper's have already submitted their 3.

[Icebergy]

Can we get our guard and jug reps to collaborate? We need to start a new official "3 concerns list" in a new thread.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

I've thrown our two big concerns over to the guardian thread.

 

Topic 1... Rampage revamp

Topic 2... Enraged defense revamp for each tree.

 

Topic 3, I had left that open for possible synergies with guards, for the general quality of life improvements will of course benefit us all. Please post ideas for topic 3 with them as well, for the time to collaborate is NOW. Thanks.

 

Knock back defense for tanking is more important than either of those, imo.

[AGSThomas]

Juggernauts need an offensive cooldown. Just 1. I got reminded of this last night when we were doing HM Styrak. The enrage timer begins after the beast goes down for the first time. So my raid leader calls out "save your offensive cooldowns until after the beast is down" and all I can ask is, "What If my class has NO offensive cooldowns?"

 

My suggestion is to give us something small, maybe just a boost to % damage when we hit Enrage, now we will have plenty of fury and some limited time to use it in. Perfect, I think.

[ArenCordial]

Juggernauts need an offensive cooldown. Just 1. I got reminded of this last night when we were doing HM Styrak. The enrage timer begins after the beast goes down for the first time. So my raid leader calls out "save your offensive cooldowns until after the beast is down" and all I can ask is, "What If my class has NO offensive cooldowns?"

 

My suggestion is to give us something small, maybe just a boost to % damage when we hit Enrage, now we will have plenty of fury and some limited time to use it in. Perfect, I think.

 

Offensive cooldowns don't just mean class abilities. For most classes its relics and adrenals, which everyone can use.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ArenCordial

[UncleOst]

I understand where you were coming from.

 

And in UncleOst's defense, a brief reference to one or two proposed changes wouldn't be out of the question, as long as they could be brief and made to flow as part of the overall question, without launching into links to paragraphs and dot points of "what you should do to fix it".

 

There is a similar thing happening in the guard forum where there are no actual questions being put forth for group review. Also I don't want to give the impression that I am trying to muscle in on the actual class reps job, I am just getting concerned that we are not putting forth questions. The sniper's have already submitted their 3.

 

By all means, I encourage you to continue with this train of thought!

 

I appreciate your offer of assistance, and ask for an updated version of our questions. With great thanks, I respect any mention of proposed specifics and expect your best!!!

 

Please include brief specifics on:

 

1. Vengeance Rampage and Seething Hatred revamps.

 

2. Enraged Defense revamps, intrinsic to each tree.

[AGSThomas]

Offensive cooldowns don't just mean class abilities. For most classes its relics and adrenals, which everyone can use.

 

This is not true at all. Marauders have one, a raid wide one at that. Snipers have one that makes their next snipe a automatic crit. Sorcs and Assassin have one that makes their next 2 force attacks crit. Mercs have an ability that makes their next ability free and instant cast, and one that makes the next 2 casts free heat to use. I'm sure there are more I'm missing. Juggs have 0

[ssfish]

This is not true at all. Marauders have one, a raid wide one at that. Snipers have one that makes their next snipe a automatic crit. Sorcs and Assassin have one that makes their next 2 force attacks crit. Mercs have an ability that makes their next ability free and instant cast, and one that makes the next 2 casts free heat to use. I'm sure there are more I'm missing. Juggs have 0

 

It is 100% true. It's just a different truth than what you are trying to point out.

[Marb]

I like the idea of an offensive cooldown, but I would be wary of adding any more buttons. Ability bloat is already a bit too much. Some players like lots of different buttons, but the designer in me can't help but see the redundancies. I think the idea behind enrage is that our damage is so enmeshed with our resource that it was envisioned as a dps cooldown in a way, but it doesn't really feel like it.

 

Seeing unload on my powertech class trainer just makes me facepalm, just as an example of thoughtless ability distribution.

[Luckygunslinger]

Knock back defense for tanking is more important than either of those, imo.

 

Knock back defense? Not an issue in PVE. For adds, sure, it's annoying, but it doesn't kill you. For Ops bosses? Doesn't matter again. As for PVP, just run a Hybrid because it doesn't matter.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Luckygunslinger

[Luckygunslinger]

This is not true at all. Marauders have one, a raid wide one at that. Snipers have one that makes their next snipe a automatic crit. Sorcs and Assassin have one that makes their next 2 force attacks crit. Mercs have an ability that makes their next ability free and instant cast, and one that makes the next 2 casts free heat to use. I'm sure there are more I'm missing. Juggs have 0

 

We don't NEED an offensive cooldown. Sure it would be nice. But you just said. Marauders get a raid wide one, so, why bothering to give more? If we get the Marauder one, it's one less thing to click and manage.