PvP in this game is miserable

[UncelSam]

lets then remove PUG entirely since its not working.

 

All become premades with right amount of medics and tanks on each team. Would be awesome.

[Vikassi]

I don't play any of the FotM buiilds, but I do play all eight advanced classes.

 

I don't share any of your perceived problem at all. Never did.

 

So clearly, you're doing something that's causing this -- not the game.

 

Yes, maybe the game is miserable. But then there's the other possibility.

 

Maybe your comprehension and skill level is what's miserable. Have you ever gave this a sincere thought?

 

You are definitely wrong and I am certainly qualified to comment on this .. For you to say that some classes are NOT more powerful than others is just an outright LIE .. OR better yet, maybe you're not qualified to comment ..

 

Are you honestly saying that every class is on PAR with each other?

[Grue_Hunter]

I don't play any of the FotM buiilds, but I do play all eight advanced classes.

 

I don't share any of your perceived problem at all. Never did.

 

So clearly, you're doing something that's causing this -- not the game.

 

Yes, maybe the game is miserable. But then there's the other possibility.

 

Maybe your comprehension and skill level is what's miserable. Have you ever gave this a sincere thought?

 

Actually he is getting at a valid point, even though he was a bit trollish about it. The scaling between the various progressions within the level 55 group does leave something to be desired. Sometimes, a player with better gear (+ bolster), can sometimes seem to move so quickly that the computer doesn't even show the animations correctly. When you start seeing that sort of thing in a PvP game, then you know that the programmers for that section have botched things up.

 

Don't get me wrong -- I think bolster is a good idea. But bolster is supposed to fix this sort of problem -- instead the current calculations and algorithms of the "wizard behind the curtain" is merely exacerbating the problems and causing more angst.

[Grue_Hunter]

I almost exclusively play dps and I don't have the problems that you are whining about. Focus target with buddy, coordinate ccs, coordinate trauma debuffs, coordinate burst and you are good to go. It's amazing what a little bit of focus fire and l2dps do for you.

 

Usually the people crying about healers and ops being OP are the ones that only manage 300-400k (or below) dam in a full length voidstar

 

Oh and I recently switched my scoundrel over to sawbones for a couple games after reading some guides and watching some videos. I found that they are nowhere near as op as people make them out to be. (You get a free upper hand when you go below 30% hp, but I still have yet to find the 40k insta-heal that all these derps are crying about). The ones pulling in 1.5+ mil heals have been practicing their craft for months. Kind of makes sense that they would be hard to kill, no?

 

Putting your hyperbole aside for a moment, I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of those people who complain are those who PUG and can't get into the ranked warzones. Let's face it -- you need (at minimum) 8 people for ranked and that's not an easy thing to do unless you have a group of friends who PvP regularly.

 

(Consequently, they are getting turned off of PvP because of the poor way that bolster balances the play when you have such a wide range of equipment/skills. And, that doesn't quite grow that part of the game.) Consequently, if the bolster doesn't balance things correctly, then you get these "superhealers" and "DPS who kill with one strike".

Edited July 30, 2013 by Grue_Hunter
More accuracy required

[Pyrinoos]

You are definitely wrong and I am certainly qualified to comment on this .. For you to say that some classes are NOT more powerful than others is just an outright LIE .. OR better yet, maybe you're not qualified to comment ..

 

Are you honestly saying that every class is on PAR with each other?

 

For the most part they are, although some are hard counters to others, i.e. stealth to snipers.

 

There are outliers such as pt dps and merc heals, but they are not as far away as some Ac's were in previous stages in the game, such as merc dps from 1.2-2.0.

 

Balance is not as bad as some claim, and btw I have 55's of every AC except PT (I have a 52) and sorc.

 

The real difference is the skill floor, some AC's when played at a low skill level are just average, some AC's played at a low skill level are horrible. For the most part all AC's played at a high skill level are very very good in regs.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Pyrinoos

[Vikassi]

I don't understand what doesn't play well means? There is nothing daunting about reading a guide on how to spec and gear your character. There is no skill involved in using you abilities in a priority or rotation. There is no skill involved in charging and hitting someone for 1/3 of there bar just because you can. I leave the notion of "skill" for things like playing objectives, not following the 6 other people to help the 1inc snow. Things like that are skillful imo.The game in not balanced for pvp, it's a horrible pvp environment and im telling you adding 4v4 arenas w/o balancing pvp is a horrid idea.

 

1. Burst in pvp is simply out of control

I can agree with this, burst it crazy .. I can hidden strike, and then debilitate someone and take half if not more of their Hit Points before they even have a chance to use an ability ..

2. resolve and the over abundance of stuns is completely broken

everyone knows this ..

3. You have the hardest hitting classes in the game who also happen to have the best defensive cool downs

The only reason I can think of is that majority play this class and they want to cater to the majority .. there really is no other reason ..

4. healing/guard is way overtuned

Healing / gurading is whacked but when it wasnt, people were complaining then as well ... not sure what you can do here .. if healing wasnt "overpowered" do you really think people would play that class?

 

How long do you think it going to take players to figure out they can own a 4v4 map by bringing 4 focus/rage spec knight/jugs into a match and insta gib someone. instantly turning a 4v4 inot a 4v3. Burst and stuns are out of control.

 

Of course the game is unbalanced .. they have to cater to the masses .. and by doing so, the c

[Vaerah]

I almost exclusively play dps and I don't have the problems that you are whining about. Focus target with buddy, coordinate ccs, coordinate trauma debuffs, coordinate burst and you are good to go. It's amazing what a little bit of focus fire and l2dps do for you.

 

Usually the people crying about healers and ops being OP are the ones that only manage 300-400k (or below) dam in a full length voidstar

 

Which FOTM OP class and spec are you playing? Because regular specs don't see 400k as "only". Sure, a smasher doing less than 800k is horrible but everyone else are not stupidly pumped like they are.

[TheCourier-]

For the most part they are, although some are hard counters to others, i.e. stealth to snipers.

 

Stealth is not a counter to snipers regarding ranked WZs. Snipers can roll and be healed back to at least half health by the time that the assassin gets back to them, and by then, the juggernaut tank can guardian leap to the sniper.

 

The only hard counter in the entire SWTOR game is marksman sniper to all melee (except stealth). There is literally not a lot that melee DPS can do against a skilled marksman sniper. 60% AOE damage taken reduction and 30% damage taken reduction per ballistic dampner, means that marksman spec is very tanky against melee DPS.

[TheCourier-]

Which FOTM OP class and spec are you playing? Because regular specs don't see 400k as "only". Sure, a smasher doing less than 800k is horrible but everyone else are not stupidly pumped like they are.

 

Lethality can do more damage than rage spec.

[Shinwon]

Lethality can do more damage than rage spec.

 

Very true. Also, 400k dam is very easy to beat with any mara spec in a full length voidstar.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Shinwon

[ManCandy]

The real difference is the skill floor, some AC's when played at a low skill level are just average, some AC's played at a low skill level are horrible. For the most part all AC's played at a high skill level are very very good in regs.

 

Skill? How diluted are you to think that instacriting someone for 8-10k takes any amount of skill? What tab target is now a skill based endeavor? Don't fool yourself you are good at pvp because your class hits hard or is unkillable while guarded or you and your 3 friends can own pug wz's. as I said before "skill" in pvp is less about what you can do offensively and more about objective team play (yes even in pugs).

[Chimerako]

if you mention class balance in anything other than rateds you have no clue how to play the AC....point blank period. If its that bad please post vids of you playing and what's happening to you. let us share in your pain.

[Pyrinoos]

Stealth is not a counter to snipers regarding ranked WZs. Snipers can roll and be healed back to at least half health by the time that the assassin gets back to them, and by then, the juggernaut tank can guardian leap to the sniper.

 

The only hard counter in the entire SWTOR game is marksman sniper to all melee (except stealth). There is literally not a lot that melee DPS can do against a skilled marksman sniper. 60% AOE damage taken reduction and 30% damage taken reduction per ballistic dampner, means that marksman spec is very tanky against melee DPS.

 

Yea, I was just giving a generally held example in terms of regs.

[Pyrinoos]

Skill? How diluted are you to think that instacriting someone for 8-10k takes any amount of skill? What tab target is now a skill based endeavor? Don't fool yourself you are good at pvp because your class hits hard or is unkillable while guarded or you and your 3 friends can own pug wz's. as I said before "skill" in pvp is less about what you can do offensively and more about objective team play (yes even in pugs).

 

You're absolutely right, awareness of what is going on around you is very very important. But there is certainly a difference between the player that understands their class and one that does not. My comments were about class balance, and I would agree for the most part a smasher is going to put up decent numbers even if the player is not very efficient at the class. But my point was that the same people would do worse on some other AC's because they have a higher skill cap to perform optimally, and that for the most part a player very familiar, experienced, and efficient at a class/ spec each AC would do fine with either in regs.

Most of the classes within their roles, are balanced fairly well, when played correctly. Ranked does show the differences and even exaggerate them, especially at the high end of play, but unless everything is always 100% the same, at the highest level, one class/spec will always be slightly "better" than another.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Pyrinoos

[Chimerako]

You're absolutely right, awareness of what is going on around you is very very important. But there is certainly a difference between the player that understands their class and one that does not. My comments were about class balance, and I would agree for the most part a smasher is going to put up decent numbers even if the player is not very efficient at the class. But my point was that the same people would do worse on some other AC's because they have a higher skill cap to perform optimally, and that for the most part a player very familiar, experienced, and efficient at a class/ spec each AC would do fine with either in regs.

Most of the classes within their roles, are balanced fairly well, when played correctly. Ranked does show the differences and even exaggerate them, especially at the high end of play, but unless everything is always 100% the same, at the highest level, one class/spec will always be slightly "better" than another.

 

^ this this a thousand times THIS!! If you posted that comment after every thread involving balance it would always be right. it confounds me why this is so hard to understand. I think people are confusing skill level with balance. yes some classes are naturally harder to play but that doesn't mean they are unbalanced. Some classes I basically play on auto pilot and others I really have to think about what im doing at all times.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Chimerako

[TheCourier-]

Yea, I was just giving a generally held example in terms of regs.

 

Ah, okay. I was talking about ranked. Lol.

[Racter]

Which FOTM OP class and spec are you playing? Because regular specs don't see 400k as "only". Sure, a smasher doing less than 800k is horrible but everyone else are not stupidly pumped like they are.

 

Dude if you can't do 400k every game you're not node guarding, healing or tanking (and even then a lot of games tanking should be close) in that is a l2p issue on your end and that is a point blank fact. You have absolutely no room to complain about healing or tank healer combos or guard or taunts or anything. L2 not be a total non factor and these issues will go away. This isn't directed specifically at you but every one of these terrible players that complain endlessly on these forums about everything.

[Chimerako]

@Op if your in ranked getting three shot'ed on a regular basis balance is not your biggest issue. what AC routinely takes 1/3 of someone's health bar? based on your comments I just knew you were taking about pug wz...

[jhory]

1. Burst in pvp is simply out of control

2. resolve and the over abundance of stuns is completely broken

3. You have the hardest hitting classes in the game who also happen to have the best defensive cool downs

4. healing/guard is way overtuned

 

I can't help but wonder, why not take some of the 'out of control' bursters from #1 and use them to kill the 'overtuned' guarded healers in #4? Are they ALL on the other team, every time?

[Pyrinoos]

1. Burst in pvp is simply out of control

2. resolve and the over abundance of stuns is completely broken

3. You have the hardest hitting classes in the game who also happen to have the best defensive cool downs

4. healing/guard is way overtuned

 

 

I really think the reason people somehow feel that 1 and 4 (which really on face value makes 0 sense) are possible at the same time is the way bolster is handling weapon damage/ force and tech power. It should be bolstering everyone to item level 63 (or 61 if conqueror could be an upgrade), but instead is bolstering to whatever is the highest current PVE gear.

Lower force/tech power would reduce the size of dps crits and lower the healing crits by a decent margin, making the gameplay a little more stable in the middle.

The same methodology applied to armor ratings (currently bolstered to KD levels) would also serve as an across the board small/moderate nerf to the survivability of healers and tanks.

[Vaerah]

Dude if you can't do 400k every game you're not node guarding, healing or tanking (and even then a lot of games tanking should be close) in that is a l2p issue on your end and that is a point blank fact. You have absolutely no room to complain about healing or tank healer combos or guard or taunts or anything. L2 not be a total non factor and these issues will go away. This isn't directed specifically at you but every one of these terrible players that complain endlessly on these forums about everything.

 

The best shadow I have seen in my life (have played hundreds of WZs), a guy consistently coming first, attracting special healers love and getting something insane like 19 medals a fight, never did above 570k. But hey, he has to be bad.

[Pyrinoos]

The best shadow I have seen in my life (have played hundreds of WZs), a guy consistently coming first, attracting special healers love and getting something insane like 19 medals a fight, never did above 570k. But hey, he has to be bad.

 

Full deception sins are full single target dps, no aoe fluff. That said, I've seen sins break 700k routinely in the last few weeks. I haven't played mine much lately as I got tired of just node guarding, but looking back thru screenshots my top damage ever was like 942k in a 140-0 CW and btw I suck, better players could do much more.

[Jherad]

Skill? How diluted are you to think that instacriting someone for 8-10k takes any amount of skill? What tab target is now a skill based endeavor? Don't fool yourself you are good at pvp because your class hits hard or is unkillable while guarded or you and your 3 friends can own pug wz's. as I said before "skill" in pvp is less about what you can do offensively and more about objective team play (yes even in pugs).

 

Sigh. What class and spec do you play?

 

Honestly the difference between 'average' and 'excellent' is HUGE. Ignoring the complete baddies, a top DPS will do double or more what the average player typically does, with any class and any spec.

 

So don't call it skill, call it something else, but the difference is right there, as plain as day.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Jherad

[Racter]

Clearly there are no good shadows or sins on your server.

[Atramar]

Full deception sins are full single target dps, no aoe fluff. That said, I've seen sins break 700k routinely in the last few weeks. I haven't played mine much lately as I got tired of just node guarding, but looking back thru screenshots my top damage ever was like 942k in a 140-0 CW and btw I suck, better players could do much more.

 

I do deception Sin, I hate having high damage, it means my targets don't die

sadly, I have not many options in getting killing spree, as usualy being presigned unwillingly as node guarder...

 

but it's definetly fun, when my team sucks in hutball, to go enemy end and score solo kills, just for lols