Bolster.. why are some so threatened by it?

[Evuo]

And that's another problem with the current system, people arent informed. Hell, I still don't know to which degree, if at all, augs help while leveling or if it actually hurts me to wear lvl 32 augs on my lvl 35. I'm perfectly fine with lowbie bolster though but they could have made the whole thing a tad more straightforward.

 

At 55 I'm fine with bolster too but I think that they should either bolster stats OR expertise. People are currently getting both for free and the gap between geared and "no gear at all" isnt wide enough to open up for progression.

 

Augments are not bolstered, using them only will have a positive effect on your stat gain both in and out of warzones.

[Kawiki]

Have you completed any of the HM or NM mode Ops yet? I use to think PvE was boring. I love PvP. But after 2.0 I've spent more time PvEing than PvPing, and I've found the higher end difficulty very enjoyable.

 

Yeah of course. Nothing post 2.0 but the primary reason I took a break from this game (I just came back a month or so ago) because the old guild was starting to focus more on PvE. As an old PvE player only (in other games) I've seen it all and it basically always devolves to the same "do this and this over and over again".

 

I'm completly opposed to any system that would require me to PvE in any form to aquire the BiS gear for PvP.

 

Using your system, even a 100 Valor player would be required to PvE to obtain BiS.

[kweassa]

Because Bolster has been working as intended since April.

 

Tell me more about how Bolster is so awesome...

 

There's nothing to say about bolster because there is nothing to note in the first place. When it starts to push PvE players to god-mode or something and starts destroying other people with one-shotting, then we'll have something to talk about.

 

But until then, keep whining. Its in the grand tradition of PvP to chug along with the merry bunch of excuse-seekers.

 

I've even got the exact schedule ready. The moment bolster's off, we are scheduled to receive whines from people that they cannot compete at all, and its much too grueling to do anything at the 55 bracket. Then we'll be getting balance whines about how TTK has become too short, and top-end geared people destroy any opposition with a sneeze, then its going to move on to "gear grind too slow and painful" whines, and then next to "no new players in PvP" whines, then the "queues pop too slowly" whines, and then the "nicely done, BW, you killed PvP" whines.

 

How am I so sure of it? Because that's the exact sequence of what has already all happened before.

[L-RANDLE]

I don't think anyone here us threatened by it. Its a combination of poor execution, disagreements where the bar is set, and why it was changed in the first place as to why people want to get rid of it...

 

Expertise was never the reason why bolster was added. Decent endgame PVP gear was viable until you got decent PVP gear. So what was the issue?

 

Recruit gear/leveling Greens.

People showing up with no clue, no gear, and/or no augments. Recruit gear stats had issues, but BW dumbed the game down to "force" people to wear "recruit gear".

 

Then they launched a buggy version on top of that.

 

It really has nothing to do with level playing field. It marginalized PVP gear progression, and was seen as catering to casuals when gear progression was already an easy and straightforward task...

Edited July 17, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Pistols]

There's nothing to say about bolster because there is nothing to note in the first place.

 

So I guess all the threads regarding said issues with bolster, and Eric's confirmation that it isn't where its supposed to be at (still bugs and the copius amount of attempts to fix it), means nothing worth noting. Check.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Pistols

[L-RANDLE]

There's nothing to say about bolster because there is nothing to note in the first place. When it starts to push PvE players to god-mode or something and starts destroying other people with one-shotting, then we'll have something to talk about.

 

But until then, keep whining. Its in the grand tradition of PvP to chug along with the merry bunch of excuse-seekers.

 

I've even got the exact schedule ready. The moment bolster's off, we are scheduled to receive whines from people that they cannot compete at all, and its much too grueling to do anything at the 55 bracket. Then we'll be getting balance whines about how TTK has become too short, and top-end geared people destroy any opposition with a sneeze, then its going to move on to "gear grind too slow and painful" whines, and then next to "no new players in PvP" whines, then the "queues pop too slowly" whines, and then the "nicely done, BW, you killed PvP" whines.

 

How am I so sure of it? Because that's the exact sequence of what has already all happened before.

 

Do you own a vineyard or something?

[kweassa]

I don't think anyone here us threatened by it. Its a combination of poor execution, disagreements where the bar is set, and why it was changed in the first place as to why people want to get rid of it...

 

Expertise was never the reason why bolster was added. Decent endgame PVP gear was viable until you got decent PVP gear. So what was the issue?

 

Recruit gear/leveling Greens.

People showing up with no clue, no gear, and/or no augments. Recruit gear asking had issues, but BW dumbed the game down to "force" people to wear "recruit gear".

 

Then they launched a buggy version on to of that.

 

People were selling recruit gear because that's what they were told. Stop quoting stuff and making stupid opinions blindly without knowing the actual history behind it.

 

Around SWTOR 1.1 ~ 1.3 the problem arose that the TTK became way too short, and the gap between new players entering the max level brackets and people who already finished farming WH/EWH became impossible to mend with recruit gear. Numerous players on the boards have been seeking to make it easier for people, and some schools of thought came up with powerfully intriguing suggestions to just cash in all recruit gear and add it to the credit budget to purchase individual, high-end PvE items and modifications and use them to customize entry-level gear until the player can at least get themselves ready at the BM-tier gearing.

 

Numerous people posted opinions that the paltry level of performance increase from the recruit gear was worthless, and despite having 0 expertise, just buffing up the base max damage and HP level through use of PvE gear and customized modifications would be still more efficient than having relying on the totally worthless recruit gear.

 

It is unimportant whether that is true or not -- the only important fact is that the performance difference was THAT MUCH high, almost unbearable to some, even, to many people. Bolster succeeded in remedying the situation, and the only remaining complaints are coming from just a handful of people who don't like the fact that they don't like how some people get to use PvE gear. Heck, it's not even a performance complaint, or an OP complaint. It's about jealousy.

 

Bolster worked.

 

 

It really has nothing to do with level playing field. It marginalized PVP gear progression, and was seen as catering to casuals when gear progression was already an easy and straightforward task...

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with levelling the playing field, as explained above.

 

Sometimes, we PvPers have this nasty habit of thinking that because we're more proficient and knowledgeable about PvP, our opinions matter more, and our preferences should be the only thing to be catered to. I suggest you get out of it.

 

Way back, when it was living hell to enter lv50 bracket for the first time, the amount of complaints concerning the difficulty of gearing, and the miserable PvP experience would fill up the forums everyday. Compared to that, nowadays the only relevant complains are about bolster, and relatively few at that, and even those complaints don't really make it clear what they are complaining about.

 

That's a sign that whether we PvPers like it or not, something went to the right direction, and something is working.

 

The playing fielf has never been so even. Compare it from the very start of this game, and we're at a point where the gear-progression element and the equality of performance element is at a reasonable balance for the first time... and they didn't even need to just kill all gear and forcibly equalize everyone to exact same stats, like how games like GW2 does it.

Edited July 17, 2013 by kweassa

[Huckdabuck]

I've even got the exact schedule ready. The moment bolster's off, we are scheduled to receive whines from people that they cannot compete at all, and its much too grueling to do anything at the 55 bracket. Then we'll be getting balance whines about how TTK has become too short, and top-end geared people destroy any opposition with a sneeze, then its going to move on to "gear grind too slow and painful" whines, and then next to "no new players in PvP" whines, then the "queues pop too slowly" whines, and then the "nicely done, BW, you killed PvP" whines.

 

How am I so sure of it? Because that's the exact sequence of what has already all happened before.

 

^ 10 times over! I absolutely REFUSED to PvP pre2.0 on anything other than a lowbie due to the lol-stomping that was occurring in the 50 bracket if you weren't there from the get go. Bolster allowed me the opportunity to actually not be a one shot kill and as such I stayed with it and got PvP gear since it was fun to play and I had nothing else to spend the comms on. I know plenty of prior PvE'ers only who are now PvP'in on days that we aren't raiding. So bolster has basically been a god send (even with it's bugs) since queue times are extremely low and there is a true influx of players (yes even bads like me) who are playing!

[L-RANDLE]

People were selling recruit gear because that's what they were told. Stop quoting stuff and making stupid opinions blindly without knowing the actual history behind it.

 

Around SWTOR 1.1 ~ 1.3 the problem arose that the TTK became way too short, and the gap between new players entering the max level brackets and people who already finished farming WH/EWH became impossible to mend with recruit gear. Numerous players on the boards have been seeking to make it easier for people, and some schools of thought came up with powerfully intriguing suggestions to just cash in all recruit gear and add it to the credit budget to purchase individual, high-end PvE items and modifications and use them to customize entry-level gear until the player can at least get themselves ready at the BM-tier gearing.

 

Numerous people posted opinions that the paltry level of performance increase from the recruit gear was worthless, and despite having 0 expertise, just buffing up the base max damage and HP level through use of PvE gear and customized modifications would be still more efficient than having relying on the totally worthless recruit gear.

 

It is unimportant whether that is true or not -- the only important fact is that the performance difference was THAT MUCH high, almost unbearable to some, even, to many people. Bolster succeeded in remedying the situation, and the only remaining complaints are coming from just a handful of people who don't like the fact that they don't like how some people get to use PvE gear. Heck, it's not even a performance complaint, or an OP complaint. It's about jealousy.

 

Bolster worked.

 

 

 

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with levelling the playing field, as explained above.

 

Sometimes, we PvPers have this nasty habit of thinking that because we're more proficient and knowledgeable about PvP, our opinions matter more, and our preferences should be the only thing to be catered to. I suggest you get out of it.

 

Way back, when it was living hell to enter lv50 ybracket for the first time, the amount of complaints concerning the difficulty of gearing, and the miserable PvP experience would fill up the forums everyday. Compared to that, nowadays the only relevant complains are about bolster, and relatively few at that, and even those complaints don't really make it clear what they are complaining about.

 

That's a sign that whether we PvPers like it or not, something went to the right direction, and something is working.

 

The playing fielf has never been so even. Compare it from the very start of this game, and we're at a point where the gear-progression element and the equality of performance element is at a reasonable balance for the first time... and they didn't even need to just kill all gear and forcibly equalize everyone to exact same stats, like how games like GW2 does it.

 

Who told people to sell their recruit gear? Look I know recruit gear had problems, but why not just fix recruit gear?

 

I'm a bolster advocate, but if you think the only reason people complain is because of the gear advantage elimination, please reexamine your stance...

 

It's overly complicated, was/is bugged, and eliminated any sort of progression.... These are at the core, not wanting to imbalance the playing field.

[Pistols]

People were selling recruit gear because that's what they were told.

 

Lol and this is why I don't take this thread seriously.

[Cretinus]

Seriously.. i mean they fixed it so your top level gear still has an advantage, but that's not good enough?

Why are some of you so terrified by this simple little thing whose entire goal is to give those with less time to farm comms a fighting chance?

Top level gear still has the advantage.. what more can you want? at this point if you play better you will win the fight, isnt that what WZ should be all about?

 

Because our self entitled pros always thought that they were being carried by skill. Then bolster came and suddenly, they had to realise that they were only being carried by gear. Now they want their illusion back.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Cretinus

[thatPERSON]

Didnt read most of the comments and i dont know if this has been said but im gonna say it anyways. Bolster has caused more problems then solve. that is why i want it gone, or give me a bolster for pve so i dont have to split my time between 2 endgames.

 

Gimme bolster in pve and ill be fine. I mean its only fair since all you pve cry babies complained about getting demolished when you entered a warzone without the proper gear.

[MiaRB]

Because our self entitled pros always thought that they were being carried by skill. Then bolster came and suddenly, they had to realise that they were only being carried by gear. Now they want their illusion back.

 

^ this! anyone who claims otherwise is lying.

[Kawiki]

Because our self entitled pros always thought that they were being carried by skill. Then bolster came and suddenly, they had to realise that they were only being carried by gear. Now they want their illusion back.

 

This is incorrect. While there may be cases of Bolster Beatings the simple fact remains that no matter how hard you try you will never be as good as most players that has spent significant time in Warzones.

 

Bolster is the biggest crutch given to lazy players I have ever seen in any game I've ever played.

[Huckdabuck]

Didnt read most of the comments and i dont know if this has been said but im gonna say it anyways. Bolster has caused more problems then solve. that is why i want it gone, or give me a bolster for pve so i dont have to split my time between 2 endgames.

 

Gimme bolster in pve and ill be fine. I mean its only fair since all you pve cry babies complained about getting demolished when you entered a warzone without the proper gear.

 

Shoot I'd honestly be all for giving a PvP'er a PvE bolster once BW gets rid of the WZ comms farming and just has a random piece of gear drop at the end of each warzone which can be rolled on by all members of the winning party (you get nothing if you lose just like a wipe for PvE'ers). You can only win 12 regular warzones (equal to the 5 TfB and 7 S&V bosses on SM) and 12 ranked warzones (equal to the 5 TfB and 7 S&V bosses on HM/NiM) per week and then your locked out until next week! Sounds like a great way to even out the no bolster for PvP'ers in raids and the bolstering for PvE players in warzones. Plus it would add a little bit more enjoyment to the game if it took longer than a weekend for me to min/max a set of partisan gear. A PvE raid can carry 1-2 undergeared people unlike a PvP warzone where those same 1-2 people hurt the team and then get demonized as bads with garbage gear. I PvP daily on multiple toons (lowbie to 55) and PvE raid religiously on 1 toon 3 days a week so feel free to flame me all you want.

[Floplag]

4 pages of WAAA and deflections, and a little truth.

 

i especially liked the one about the illusion, perfectly put.

 

Simple fact, IF you are in top PVP gear, no amount of Bolster balances that at this time, you will have an advantage, albeit a smaller one than you are accustomed to.

 

Therefore, those who are ************ the loudest, those in that gear, really have nothing whatever to ***** about, if they are as skilled as they think they are.

 

The rest is just smoke.

[Huckdabuck]

This is incorrect. While there may be cases of Bolster Beatings the simple fact remains that no matter how hard you try you will never be as good as most players that has spent significant time in Warzones.

 

Bolster is the biggest crutch given to lazy players I have ever seen in any game I've ever played.

 

Bigger than the gear crutch of the EWH vs recruit gear? LIES!!!! Oh wait you said lazy players not self appointed God like lol'smashin PvP'ers.

[Kawiki]

Bigger than the gear crutch of the EWH vs recruit gear? LIES!!!! Oh wait you said lazy players not self appointed God like lol'smashin PvP'ers.

 

Too bad you are quoting someone that leveled three different alts and went through the 50 recruit gear days. Anyone who was repeatly smashed in recruit gear does not know how to play. It really is as simple as that. While it was far from ideal, you were still able to contribute positivly to any WZ you were in.

[Huckdabuck]

Too bad you are quoting someone that leveled three different alts and went through the 50 recruit gear days. Anyone who was repeatly smashed in recruit gear does not know how to play. It really is as simple as that. While it was far from ideal, you were still able to contribute positivly to any WZ you were in.

 

Only 3 alts? I did 12 toons through that same period! And no the contribution wasn't very positive at first and led to most people saying F PvP. The L2P issue is valid but then again hard to L2P when you're sitting with recruit and facing 8 WH/EWH. Then again I guess I am a bad who doesn't know anything!

 

Edit: And I find it funny that you assumed I was a fresh sub or someone with limited exposure to PvP and didn't spend the past 1 year and 8 months playing this game. /FAIL

Edited July 17, 2013 by Huckdabuck

[SlimsPicken]

Seriously.. i mean they fixed it so your top level gear still has an advantage, but that's not good enough?

Why are some of you so terrified by this simple little thing whose entire goal is to give those with less time to farm comms a fighting chance?

Top level gear still has the advantage.. what more can you want? at this point if you play better you will win the fight, isnt that what WZ should be all about?

 

I dont have alot of time to farm OPs, so I have no problem with bolster- as long as it works both ways.

 

Ill take my rating 72-75 gear equivalent from bolster so I can enjoy some PvE casually. Youll still have a slight advantage with your pure 75s, but Im willing to settle for a slight disadvantage to get me in the door for NMM.

 

Does that seem somehow ridiculous to you? No more than you stepping into WZs in pure 75s and being only slightly worse than full conq...right?

[L-RANDLE]

Only 3 alts? I did 12 toons through that same period! And no the contribution wasn't very positive at first and led to most people saying F PvP. The L2P issue is valid but then again hard to L2P when you're sitting with recruit and facing 8 WH/EWH. Then again I guess I am a bad who doesn't know anything!

 

Edit: And I find it funny that you assumed I was a fresh sub or someone with limited exposure to PvP and didn't spend the past 1 year and 8 months playing this game. /FAIL

 

And gearing alts was so bad...

Oh wait....

 

The only complaints should have been from fresh 50s, on their first toon, with no raid gear..

Recruit gear was not even a significant problem then. Making them wear/augmenting it, however, was.

 

Enter the lolster.

[MahneWarrior]

Though without bolster we would need to farm PvE hilts...

[L-RANDLE]

Double post.... Fraking cell phones Edited July 17, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[MahneWarrior]

There's nothing to say about bolster because there is nothing to note in the first place. When it starts to push PvE players to god-mode or something and starts destroying other people with one-shotting, then we'll have something to talk about.

 

But until then, keep whining. Its in the grand tradition of PvP to chug along with the merry bunch of excuse-seekers.

 

I've even got the exact schedule ready. The moment bolster's off, we are scheduled to receive whines from people that they cannot compete at all, and its much too grueling to do anything at the 55 bracket. Then we'll be getting balance whines about how TTK has become too short, and top-end geared people destroy any opposition with a sneeze, then its going to move on to "gear grind too slow and painful" whines, and then next to "no new players in PvP" whines, then the "queues pop too slowly" whines, and then the "nicely done, BW, you killed PvP" whines.

 

How am I so sure of it? Because that's the exact sequence of what has already all happened before.

 

Honestly, for most I really do not think it has much to do with the fact pvers are able to remain "competitive" without the use of PvP gear, I think what bothers most is how pvpers are unable to share the same benefit. With WH and EWH back in the day one was able to still none NiM content in their pvp gear, however now if you try to run current tier raids in full pvp it may not work out so well, since they did not scale up the mods much for pvp in 2.0.

 

Equal treatment would be nice, I think that is why a lot of people are upset.

[Akuryu]

Because our self entitled pros always thought that they were being carried by skill. Then bolster came and suddenly, they had to realise that they were only being carried by gear. Now they want their illusion back.

 

This is the biggest myth in all the bolster debates. I don't know any single person or guild on my server that used to be amazing but now suck because they lost their gear advantage. I also haven't seen any players that used to be sub-par become heroes due to bolster evening things out. The good players pre-2.0 are still the good players post-2.0.

 

Gearing up for PVP is not the months-long grind people make it out to be. It took maybe a week to get full war hero, and that was without dropping 10 hours a day into the game. Just average play. If you don't play PVP enough to even do that, no amount of bolster will ever make you competitive against people who do nothing but PVP day-in and day-out.

 

Good players are not good because of their gear. Bad players will always be bad, no matter how much Bioware tries to hold your hand and prop you up.