LOL @ Your 2.4: "THE PvP PATCH"...

[Kynesis]

"A pragmatist by nature?" are you serious?

 

Go back and re-read some of your posts in the past, telling us your convoluted ways of getting around restrictions, and why those convoluted ways mean BW shouldn't fix stuff.

 

No pragmatist would ever create a new character and level him to 10, for the SOLE purpose to leave him by the GTN so you can log him when you're out in the field and need an item off the GTN NOW. AND it's your reason why BW shouldn't (yes, you said "shouldn't") release a legacy perk for a mobile GTN terminal. That's not pragmatic. A pragmatist would say "that's a needless waste, lets use thought and objectivity to think of a good solution." A pragmatist would arrive at the solution of asking BW to create said legacy perk.

 

I could give you other examples of your weird logic, none of it would qualify as "pragmatic". You take the viewpoint and defends Bioware, that's not pragmatism, that's subjective thinking.

 

BWs breaking of the flashpoints and ops is pragmatic by definition, yes, but you definitely are not.

 

 

I really shouldn't jump in on this and I'm not taking sides, I only want to clarify use of the term 'Pragmatic' because this word you keep using... I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

The pragmatic approach is simply to do the best you can with available resources.

[MrJurgens]

Psssst, people who only PvP make up less than 1% of the playerbase. Most PvPers also PvE, so a patch that adds both is a double win.

Source? Statistics? Otherwise, that's pure conjecture and the hyperbole statement of the year. I know tons of PvP'ers who don't PvE.

 

This patch is NOT a double win.

 

[Tsillah]

I always thought that pvp was the right place to see people with mental limitations, but do you people know that this is all based on a preview that is still being updated as time goes along and in no way are the actual patch notes?

 

I mean, we only have some things confirmed now that will be in this patch, but to assume that this is the whole of it, is what we call jumping the gun.

 

So LOL@ Your topic.

 

Ask questions, but don't explode till you see the actual patch notes. Again, this is just a preview, a glimpse.

 

It's like a writer who is working on a book and says. Chapter 1-5 will be about pve and chapter 6 will be about pvp. Then people start shouting: OMG there's only one chapter on pvp!....except he isn't done writing and there may be more chapters following. So far we just don't have the full overview yet, so don't act like you do.

[Jimvinny]

Source? Statistics? Otherwise, that's pure conjecture and the hyperbole statement of the year. I know tons of PvP'ers who don't PvE.

 

This patch is NOT a double win.

 

 

Your sig makes me laugh. In most cases, you'd be right. PVP is required for an MMO to survive. But in the case of SWTOR, the guy you quoted is spot on. THIS game would survive without PVP, but would die in a second without PVE.

[MrJurgens]

Your sig makes me laugh. In most cases, you'd be right. PVP is required for an MMO to survive. But in the case of SWTOR, the guy you quoted is spot on. THIS game would survive without PVP, but would die in a second without PVE.

Carebear content is all BW is good at, and nickel and diming.

 

[SilentKitty]

I think that these 4v4 will be great for my guild. We have weekly Ops in both hard mode and story mode, since we got a big portion of players who wants to see this content but we also have a smaller group of players who prefer PvP. We have tried many many times to put some kind of team together but there are simply to few players ( if you really want it to work you need people of different classes, and then you need a pool of extra people for those times when real life like work or kids get in the way).

 

4v4 however I can definitely see my guild pulling off, it will be fun to see how my PvP-friends finds it. Will test it myself as well, just for fun in order to hang out with good friends and trying not to suck too much. I'm looking forward to this and I don't even do PvP very often. Just thing it could suit my friends and our guild.

[OddballEasyEight]

Ok.

I just want to get this straight.

Could some of the people complaining about this patch (maby Dawginole or MrJurgens) answer me this:

Would you have felt better if patch 2.4 was exactly what it is now but without the PvE content?

Not more PvP content in it, but a patch dedicated solely to PvP with no PvE content at all.

Because it seems like you are more angry at the fact that they included PvE content in the patch than that there is supposedly little PvP content in it.

[Caelrie]

Source? Statistics? Otherwise, that's pure conjecture and the hyperbole statement of the year. I know tons of PvP'ers who don't PvE.

No you don't. They craft, do dailies, probably run flashpoints.

 

Carebear content is all BW is good at, and nickel and diming.

 

Everything is carebear in a game with no permadeath, Mr Internet Toughguy.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Caelrie

[Applicator]

Plenty in this patch for everyone and there is possibly more to be announced. Stop the QQ every time a future outlook is announced as you look silly every time when you whinge when you don't know the full details.

[BrianDavion]

5/24/2013:

 

6/18/2013:

 

7/16/2013:

 

 

LOL So let me get this straight. By your own admission, your "PvP patch" contains a new PvE planet story arc, and not one, but two new operations. Which IRONICALLY we all had to pay for a planet/level increase/op patch at 2.0, but are now getting a planet and two operations for free in 2.4. So first off, what the heck was my $10 going toward at 2.0?

 

So by comparison you're releasing a massive amount more content for PvE'ers AGAIN in a patch you referred to as a PvP patch and then your tossing some gear and a few 4x4 arenas at PvP'ers?

 

So let's just all take a look at this... Since Ancient Hyper Gates going forward to 2.4, you will have managed to release 4 revamped level 55 HM Flashpoints, 2 brand new level 55 HM/SM Flashpoints, and 3 new operations in comparison to 1 new tier of PvP gear and some 4v4 arenas?

 

Do you think it's time to maybe get your sole PvP developer some help? It blows my mind that your own devs and community staff have been referring to this as the "pvp patch" for two months now, and the damn thing is going to have more PvE content in it than PvP content. What a blatant slap in the face. Just axe PvP. It's clear you won't and can't have any decent Open World content, and it's clear you have no interest in supporting Warzones in a dedicated manner. Just get rid of it so you move your lone PvP dev onto fixing bugs...

 

 

dude, PVE NEEDS more frequent updates then PVP due to the nature of it

[Dawginole]

Ok.

I just want to get this straight.

Could some of the people complaining about this patch (maby Dawginole or MrJurgens) answer me this:

Would you have felt better if patch 2.4 was exactly what it is now but without the PvE content?

Not more PvP content in it, but a patch dedicated solely to PvP with no PvE content at all.

Because it seems like you are more angry at the fact that they included PvE content in the patch than that there is supposedly little PvP content in it.

 

Oddball,

 

I think this is a fair question. First off, I expect (Read: Hope) that the actual patch is going to have more PvP content than Mr. Bruce listed out today. Surely, like a good poker player, Bioware is not going to reveal their hand this early. And that likely goes for both the PvP and PvE content that will be coming with 2.4. They will still need stuff to reveal after 2.3 is released in August to keep us on the edge of our seats and wanting to come back for more.

 

That said, many players that are just reading the forums are not totally versed on everything that has been said by members of both the community and dev team. You have to understand how this stuff is being sold at the Cantina events.

 

I attended the Dallas event which was held the week of the 2.1 customization patch disaster. What we were told by a dev was that the way the patches were being released was as a rotational content distribution. I am paraphrasing, but what they said was something to the effect of, "Think of this patch [2.1] as sort of the role players and customizers patch, the next patch will be for the PvE players, and 2.4 will be focused on the PvP players."

 

So from that, there is a built up expectation that all the focus of 2.3 is going into PvE and then all the focus of 2.4 is going towards PvP. What has been revealed over the last few months however is that PvE is getting something every patch, whether it's for the questing/ops crowd in 2.0, or the hardcore ops crowd in 2.2, or the whole spectrum of PvE'ers in 2.3. And I think what those of us who consider ourselves to be PvP'ers were really excited and anticipating was that 2.4 was finally "our" patch with a total focus on PvP content after not having anything but a slightly modified new tier of gear in a year and the total bungle that is the bolster system. I think for those of us that were excited for a PvP-centric and focused patch that by the month seemed to be becoming a bit of everything patch and now seems to have more PvE content we are just left scratching our heads and disappointed. I mean, honestly, are you not baffled how the dev team can continue to develop events and flashpoints and operations but have not managed to create a single warzone map in the last year? Are you not curious why Ranked Warzones will have been in "pre-season" for a year and a half by 2.4?

 

So to an extent, and to answer your question, yes, I think it would have gone a long, long way with PvP'ers if they had of limited the content of 2.4 to just PvP content to show some appreciation toward the PvP crowd and just held on to all the PvE content to be introduced in 2.5. Silly? Maybe. But after the PvP crowd has watched PvE'ers drenched in content over a year and we have gotten nothing and are paying the same sub fee each month, it would have been a good PR move with the PvP players. But we've yet to see Bioware make many good PR moves, so it was probably a stupid expectation.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Dawginole

[Dawginole]

dude, PVE NEEDS more frequent updates then PVP due to the nature of it

 

Gotcha. So PvE needs 4 Ops, 4 FP revisions, two brand new FP's, two new daily areas and a few events for every 1 new warzone "due to the nature of it". Because as we all know (especially me since while I'm a PvP'er I'm also in fully optimized 72's) only having the same 5 warzones in 2 years doesn't get old at all. Great post!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Dawginole

[Dawginole]

Someone's first mmo.

 

Played FFXI for 7 years which only had quarterly patches and content from expansions was released over 2 year periods rather than all at once. To get the best equipment in the game I had to do things like camp against other players for 18hr timed lottery spawns with 8hr pop windows for as long as 36 days straight for some of the rarer items. This game is care bear by any comparison. But your comment did give me a lol because I'm sure you've had a lot of "real" MMO experience in something like WoW, so thanks for that.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Dawginole

[jedip_enguin]

Somebody got chocolate in my peanut butter...

[OddballEasyEight]

Oddball,

 

I think this is a fair question. First off, I expect (Read: Hope) that the actual patch is going to have more PvP content than Mr. Bruce listed out today. Surely, like a good poker player, Bioware is not going to reveal their hand this early. And that likely goes for both the PvP and PvE content that will be coming with 2.4. They will still need stuff to reveal after 2.3 is released in August to keep us on the edge of our seats and wanting to come back for more.

 

That said, many players that are just reading the forums are not totally versed on everything that has been said by members of both the community and dev team. You have to understand how this stuff is being sold at the Cantina events.

 

I attended the Dallas event which was held the week of the 2.1 customization patch disaster. What we were told by a dev was that the way the patches were being released was as a rotational content distribution. I am paraphrasing, but what they said was something to the effect of, "Think of this patch [2.1] as sort of the role players and customizers patch, the next patch will be for the PvE players, and 2.4 will be focused on the PvP players."

 

So from that, there is a built up expectation that all the focus of 2.3 is going into PvE and then all the focus of 2.4 is going towards PvP. What has been revealed over the last few months however is that PvE is getting something every patch, whether it's for the questing/ops crowd in 2.0, or the hardcore ops crowd in 2.2, or the whole spectrum of PvE'ers in 2.3. And I think what those of us who consider ourselves to be PvP'ers were really excited and anticipating was that 2.4 was finally "our" patch with a total focus on PvP content after not having anything but a slightly modified new tier of gear in a year and the total bungle that is the bolster system. I think for those of us that were excited for a PvP-centric and focused patch that by the month seemed to be becoming a bit of everything patch and now seems to have more PvE content we are just left scratching our heads and disappointed. I mean, honestly, are you not baffled how the dev team can continue to develop events and flashpoints and operations but have not managed to create a single warzone map in the last year? Are you not curious why Ranked Warzones will have been in "pre-season" for a year and a half by 2.4?

 

So to an extent, and to answer your question, yes, I think it would have gone a long, long way with PvP'ers if they had of limited the content of 2.4 to just PvP content to show some appreciation toward the PvP crowd and just held on to all the PvE content to be introduced in 2.5. Silly? Maybe. But after the PvP crowd has watched PvE'ers drenched in content over a year and we have gotten nothing and are paying the same sub fee each month, it would have been a good PR move with the PvP players. But we've yet to see Bioware make many good PR moves, so it was probably a stupid expectation.

 

Thank you for your long and surprisingly (for these forums) civil response.

I can understand that making 2.4 PvP only would have gone a long way to placate the PvP playerbase, however, the PvE playerbase is substantially larger than the PvP one in this game so throwing some PvE content in there prevents an uproar on the forums about how "there was nothing for us PvE people in this patch" and the likes.

Sure, 2 ops and a new daily (i assume) area is a bit much maby, but then again we dont know how many PvP arena maps there will be.

If there are 10 PvP arenas then that pretty much outweighs the PvE content IMHO.

The elder game gear cancels eachother out since its both PvE and PvP so that might as well be discounted in the big picture.

But there might still be more to come. They only announce the stuff that is 100% done and ready to be put in the patch when its this far ahead. There may be more PvP content that just isnt done yet that might be included.

 

But to be honest, a completely PvP focused patch would have garnered alot of negative attention on the forums since the larger part of the playerbase is PvE centered.

 

I guess we will just have to wait and see how much is included in the patch. After all, alot of stuff can change in 2-3 months.

Edited July 17, 2013 by OddballEasyEight

[amona]

Gotcha. So PvE needs 4 Ops, 4 FP revisions, two brand new FP's, two new daily areas and a few events for every 1 new warzone "due to the nature of it". Because as we all know (especially me since while I'm a PvP'er I'm also in fully optimized 72's) only having the same 5 warzones in 2 years doesn't get old at all. Great post!

 

I don't play this game fore Opps FP Dailly's or PVP i play this game for Storry arches. This is the First Free update we get since the game Launched You PVP guys had 2 new wz .

[otherworlder]

For me the announcement is more of a buzzkill simply because the teased, overhyped pvp update sounds like it's only going to be the 4x4 arenas, which (contrary to what a lot of folks are throwing around on here) is not a universally desired pvp addition. In point of fact, the pvp community in TOR is split heavily on that.

 

Such an addition will do zippo to increase my pvp content, as I won't likely be partaking in it. So in that sense, it's very much a PvE patch.

 

A true PvP update would have had something for everyone, not a new PvP minigame which many PvPers were begging and praying for BW not to introduce into this game for a lot of valid and well documented reasons (class balance issues becoming even more of a headache in PvP, comp vs skill, Blizzard's public statements about how arenas were the worst idea they ever had and they never could get it right, etc)

[Arturioss]

They may not be the size of EV each. PTS players said that it's rather obvious the 2 Czerka Flashpoints were split from 1 because of how short they are. Personally, I don't mind it at all. Shorter FPs/Ops allow more flexibility. It's often not easy to have nearly uninterrupted block of time to do some of the longer FPs and Ops.

 

Looking forward to it, I like being more flexible!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Arturioss

[Devlonir]

Gotcha. So PvE needs 4 Ops, 4 FP revisions, two brand new FP's, two new daily areas and a few events for every 1 new warzone "due to the nature of it". Because as we all know (especially me since while I'm a PvP'er I'm also in fully optimized 72's) only having the same 5 warzones in 2 years doesn't get old at all. Great post!

 

Just a bit of info; WoW did not have more than 5 warzones until Wrath of the Lich King. And getting there cost way more than 2 years.

 

PVP doesn't need constant new arenas because the fun in the content comes from the unpredictable nature of a human opponent.

 

One of the greates Real Life FFA, Last Man Standing PVP games is Poker. And Texas Hold 'Em hasn't changed rules for ages. The only thing changing is how people play the game.

Or an even better example; Magic the Gathering. A 1v1 PVP game which is constantly evolving because of new cards coming out every few months. That game is, because of that, entirely about metagame and how you read it and how you handle it.

 

It seems you want more a Magic the Gathering kind of PVP, while others simply prefer a more Poker kind of PVP.

 

SWTOR's PVP is more like Poker. Because it doesn't have too much new warzones (2 since launch now, probably a lot more once 4v4 arenas are a thing), and it also doesn't have a lot of changes in balance every few patches (like WoW did for many years).

[cycao]

PvPers will always complain. Whatever they get, it's never enough.

 

Yeah Arenas could be fun, we wont know until the PTS.

 

Here is what we do know. Arenas were something that since launch the community has been somewhat divided on for a few reasons. One being that (and this will be true for most games) is that class balance is an issue. Right now as with every stage of this game some classes are performing at a higher level than others. Some players have feared that with arenas classes would be balanced around them instead of 8vs8. A just cause seeing as I have already seen peoples expectations about assassins and ops being the only classes you will need (again still early but I have seen them). Gear was also an issue, 4vs4 ranked will be loads easier and will most likely cause 8 man ranked to take a hit as gearing up in end game gear will be loads easier and well, its something new.

 

Now here are some reasons why I am a bit upset and so are others that I know.

 

Season one of ranked

It has been pre season for over a year. I am not sure what they are waiting on but something mentioned of their goals for ranked would put some minds at ease especially since they made it a point to say expect big things for ranked in one of their earlier summer of swtor threads. I mentioned above that I think arenas will cause ranked warzones to lose popularity as the ranked scene on most servers at the moment appear to be as strong as popular as ever since they released them back in June of 2012.

 

Matchmaking

Probably the most brought up topics in the PvP forum is 'premades vs solo' players and 'pug stomping'. There is a rift where some people think the queues should just be split where its only a true solo queue and a group only queue. The other side wants a matchmaking system. Something that actually takes into account wins/losses, maybe gear, possibly valor (nothing to do with skill but with time played), just something to make regular warzones more enjoyable overall for everyone.

 

Bolster

Bolster has been the biggest complaint that came from 2.0. For those that do not know bolster was put in place for two reasons. One being that players leveling in the new lowbie brackets so that a level 30 has a chance against a level 54. The other being that with the removal of recruit gear (mainly due to the fact that not a lot of players put it on) fresh 55's would have a chance. Well bolster has been a broken feature ever since it hit the PTS for patch 2.0 and it is still not 100% effective.

 

New warzones

This is a no brainer it will have been almost a year since we got AHG so it would be nice to have heard something about that.

 

Also there are a number of annoying bugs out there as well as class balance and other things but those are the things I was looking forward to hearing about being addressed with this patch which will feature 'big' PvP changes.

 

Happy we are finally getting something but some of the major topics/issues have not been brought up in a while and part of the gripe a lot of PvPers have with the state of our part of the game is communication or lack there of.

[stylaz]

MMO players will always complain. Whatever they get, it's never enough.

 

fixed it for you

 

Regarding the OP, the complaining is really premature, since we don't even have the patch notes yet. Plus, they never said this was gonna be a pvp patch.

 

I'll wait till there's more information available, before jumping to conclusions.

[ImpactHound]

When did the term "Elder Game" come into vogue? I really have never heard a player ever refer to end-game content as anything but "end-game content." WildStar devs are really hanging on the term too. Is this the hip new industry buzzword to make me think you're going to release more content faster? Because it's nt working, it sounds out-of-touch. Edited July 17, 2013 by ImpactHound
typos

[Joesixxpack]

When did the term "Elder Game" come into vogue?.

 

Fits though in a PVP context: Old, out of touch, breaks easily/heals slowly, and smells like mothballs.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Joesixxpack

[Apeth]

Seems like a load of PvP content to me. It does say arena's after all, plural, also doesn't mean its all they are adding, just that its confirmed. The end of the day Swtor just isn't a PvP game.

[Jetreaperz]

Oddball,

 

I think this is a fair question. First off, I expect (Read: Hope) that the actual patch is going to have more PvP content than Mr. Bruce listed out today. Surely, like a good poker player, Bioware is not going to reveal their hand this early. And that likely goes for both the PvP and PvE content that will be coming with 2.4. They will still need stuff to reveal after 2.3 is released in August to keep us on the edge of our seats and wanting to come back for more.

 

That said, many players that are just reading the forums are not totally versed on everything that has been said by members of both the community and dev team. You have to understand how this stuff is being sold at the Cantina events.

 

I attended the Dallas event which was held the week of the 2.1 customization patch disaster. What we were told by a dev was that the way the patches were being released was as a rotational content distribution. I am paraphrasing, but what they said was something to the effect of, "Think of this patch [2.1] as sort of the role players and customizers patch, the next patch will be for the PvE players, and 2.4 will be focused on the PvP players."

 

So from that, there is a built up expectation that all the focus of 2.3 is going into PvE and then all the focus of 2.4 is going towards PvP. What has been revealed over the last few months however is that PvE is getting something every patch, whether it's for the questing/ops crowd in 2.0, or the hardcore ops crowd in 2.2, or the whole spectrum of PvE'ers in 2.3. And I think what those of us who consider ourselves to be PvP'ers were really excited and anticipating was that 2.4 was finally "our" patch with a total focus on PvP content after not having anything but a slightly modified new tier of gear in a year and the total bungle that is the bolster system. I think for those of us that were excited for a PvP-centric and focused patch that by the month seemed to be becoming a bit of everything patch and now seems to have more PvE content we are just left scratching our heads and disappointed. I mean, honestly, are you not baffled how the dev team can continue to develop events and flashpoints and operations but have not managed to create a single warzone map in the last year? Are you not curious why Ranked Warzones will have been in "pre-season" for a year and a half by 2.4?

 

So to an extent, and to answer your question, yes, I think it would have gone a long, long way with PvP'ers if they had of limited the content of 2.4 to just PvP content to show some appreciation toward the PvP crowd and just held on to all the PvE content to be introduced in 2.5. Silly? Maybe. But after the PvP crowd has watched PvE'ers drenched in content over a year and we have gotten nothing and are paying the same sub fee each month, it would have been a good PR move with the PvP players. But we've yet to see Bioware make many good PR moves, so it was probably a stupid expectation.

 

 

 

Post in yellow so people think my post is respectable