To the people undercutting on GTN by 50%

[AlexDougherty]

I've never understood why people get so uppity about undercutting.

 

Well some people make money crafting, and they get annoyed if their profits get diminished. Personally I don't, I craft for myself, and sell spare materials when I no longer use them, they don't always sell.

 

but those who craft for profit determine what they need to make money, then after a while they get gready and add time spent into their calculations, all the while forgetting about the laws of supply and demand, ie if some can sell cheaper than you then people will buy at that price.

Edited July 17, 2013 by AlexDougherty

[Kaiserkain]

I love the fact that most people are actually defending huge undercuts as if it's something smart to do. Torplayers.txt

 

(it never is and you are quite literally just throwing money away)

Edited July 17, 2013 by Kaiserkain

[Ashenti]

I love the fact that most people are actually defending huge undercuts as if it's something smart to do. Torplayers.txt

 

(it never is and you are quite literally just throwing money away)

 

This is an atitude created by a Western upbringing which encourages people to uncritically accept that the accumulation of maximum profit is paramount.

Have you considered that not everyone does accept this and that some realise the ultimate folly of such thinking?

And, more simply, that this is a game, played for enjoyment. Not everyone rates their level of enjoyment by the size of their credit balance.

[AlexDougherty]

This is an atitude created by a Western upbringing which encourages people to uncritically accept that the accumulation of maximum profit is paramount.

Have you considered that not everyone does accept this and that some realise the ultimate folly of such thinking?

And, more simply, that this is a game, played for enjoyment. Not everyone rates their level of enjoyment by the size of their credit balance.

 

Not sure I agree that it's a western attitude, greed is pretty universal, admittedly the west (philosophical west rather than geographical) is probably worse than most, and did for a while advocate the greed is good motto.

 

Personally despite being from this culture, and British to boot, I don't look at money as the be all and end all, it's a means to happiness, and moral surety is nicer than a grand or three more than I need. That said I do save, because I'm not an idiot.

[Omisri]

I've undercut by almost 80% quite regularly. When I see level 10 - 30 purples on the GTN for 200 - 300k, I craft and sell for what I think a character at that level can afford, not because a level 55 can use it to pump mods etc. into it.

 

If someone comes along and buys them to re-list at 80% more. So be it.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Omisri

[SithKoriandr]

This is an atitude created by a Western upbringing which encourages people to uncritically accept that the accumulation of maximum profit is paramount.

Have you considered that not everyone does accept this and that some realise the ultimate folly of such thinking?

And, more simply, that this is a game, played for enjoyment. Not everyone rates their level of enjoyment by the size of their credit balance.

 

That is an everyone motto. This isn't a western motto. And it's generally a MMO motto for those who take their market play serious.

 

However, when it comes to games, some of us simply don't care.

 

Not to mention, to the OP, you have to take into account people can generally buy credits now, so they care less on the profit as they can just buy more credits.

[Ashenti]

Not sure I agree that it's a western attitude, greed is pretty universal, admittedly the west (philosophical west rather than geographical) is probably worse than most, and did for a while advocate the greed is good motto.

 

Personally despite being from this culture, and British to boot, I don't look at money as the be all and end all, it's a means to happiness, and moral surety is nicer than a grand or three more than I need. That said I do save, because I'm not an idiot.

 

I agree, greed can be found in every society. that being said, its predominantly Western governments which intentionally produce a system (education, public relations, laws, institutional regulations) which emphasise the gaining of maximum profit to be of such import.

i am also British and completely support the idea that an individual has the right to choose to garner monitary profits if that is their wish. I just believe that the majority of people do this blindly, that although they believe that they have made a critical choice to pursue gain, they have infact just followed the plan set for them by the state.

Of course, in our society having money does prevent many of the causes of unhappiness, but doesn't produce many of the causes of happiness.

i guess its easy for us to be philosophical about this (let's face it, even the poorest in Britain's problems do not reach the level of many around the world).

 

Lol, got a little heavy for a Wednesday morning there!

 

Back to the OP's point. Everyone has the right to sell at the price they deem fit. Just because you rate an item as worth X credits, does not mean everyone does. Just because you deem it necessary to make x% profit on your sales, does not mean everyone agrees.

Think criticaly about the reasons you do what you do. Try to understand exactly why you feel the need to rate your own leve of enjoyment against the profit you make (and, even more improtantly, against your need to make more profit than another). Do this and, in my opinion, you will have much more fun in the game.

[CrazyMcGee]

Ok, so I agree with the OP, the undercutting is annoying. If you want to show up first on the list, undercut by 1 credit, not 100k.

 

BUT, there is a simple solution. If I see someone who has grossly undercut and significantly changed the current value... I just buy their items. Then the price is restored to the next lowest person. I then relist the item and make good profits from 2 seconds work.

 

If people want to be dumb, just take advantage of it. They sold their item, they are happy. I sold my item at a better price, I am happy. I sold THEIR item for a BIG profit, so I am SUPER HAPPY

[CrazyMcGee]

Try to understand exactly why you feel the need to rate your own leve of enjoyment against the profit you make (and, even more improtantly, against your need to make more profit than another). Do this and, in my opinion, you will have much more fun in the game.

 

Um, because if you make more money, you can use that money to buy other stuff... e.g. upgrade your armour so you can beat tougher fights, buy a new mount that you like the look of, buy an emote just for fun, buy a new outfit that you think is cool...

 

What's with lecturing the OP on the value of money? Money buys stuff. Did you not know? The game is more fun when you can buy whatever you want to shape the game to your preferences.

[MidichIorian]

I don't have a problem with it but I certainly don't understand it either. Sometimes it's an honest mistake, like the black/purple dye I managed to buy for 30K, but at other times it's just a strange move. Yesterday I found two copper crystals for 50K each, the third cheapest was 99K. 50K isnt even the suggested price so the guy has intentionally undercut with 50 %. Makes no sense, especially when he could have just sold them in chat instead for atleast 70K.

So naturally I'd buy and flip them.

[Bomyne]

I love the fact that most people are actually defending huge undercuts as if it's something smart to do. Torplayers.txt

 

(it never is and you are quite literally just throwing money away)

 

If i've sold my item for 100k when others are selling theirs for 1M, then it was a smart thing to do because mine sold and theirs didn't.

 

Free market allows me to sell what i want for whatever price i want.

[Stoofa]

Well thankfully there is no minimum selling price for items in the game and I can choose to sell for whatever I like.

As a rule I do tend to stick near the price others are selling for - yer, I'm that annoying person who will put an item up for sale at 1cr less than you.

However I have also been known to sell items for a lot less. I put my own value on "player made" items and if that is lower than what others want to sell at then so be it - I wont be dictated to on what price I should set and try to setup cartels etc.

On the flip side I've seen items for sale which are silly cheap. Whereas I respect the seller for deciding on that price I also respect my own decision to buy those items myself and push up the selling price in general on the GTN.

This was especially the case with Augmentation kits - first level 6 and now level 9.

I know what they can and do sell for. If I'm putting some on the market and there are some "silly cheap" I'll buy those and then put them all on the market (with my own) at 1cr below the higher pricing.

Seller gets the price they wanted, and I get to flip for some profit myself and the buyer pays the expected price - win/win/win.

[Hessen]

I bought 24 Cartel Packs and sold everything I could for 1 credit each.

 

I don't care about in game money and was happy to help out people who would have a happier game experience as a result of owning items that I didn't need or want.

[JattaGin]

I don't like "people undercutting on GTN by 50%" either. Make it at least 75%!

 

But seriously, I do appreciate that there are some players intentionally selling stuff for very little credits. I got a couple of CM armors for 500 credits which usually cost more than 100.000. I would have never bought them for normal price, but for 500 credits, I could add them to my collection without worrying.

[Ancaglon]

They mentioned they were having trouble keeping a stock. If I sell out of something all the time, so much so that I can barely keep up with the rate they are selling, I just raise my price a bit. Then I continue to do so, until I can keep up with the demand. I'm not saying double it, just raise it and see what happens.

 

I used to sell hypertech fragments at 10/15k on my original server. I couldn't keep them in stock. So I raised my price to 15.5k, then, 16k. Eventually I found that at 17.5k I could keep up with the rate I was selling them. 2.5k more for the same amount of mats, and same amount of time invested in gathering them. It's an easy choice for me.

 

^This guy understands how to make money right I'm guessing the original poster missed the opportunity he had to flip the crystals and make a profit for very little work, and it seems his competitor doesn't know how to price stuff right.

[Ancaglon]

I bought 24 Cartel Packs and sold everything I could for 1 credit each.

 

I don't care about in game money and was happy to help out people who would have a happier game experience as a result of owning items that I didn't need or want.

 

Cool story, bro. Next time, can I have the real-life money you spent buying those packs?

[Amaranth]

Obviously he's full of it. If he is so smart as he claim to be, he'd buy the cheap ones that are half his and resell it IF he actually did sell them. I think a little rage is happening because he can't peddle his junk for outrageous prices.

 

Heh this is exactly what I don't understand about people who complain about undercutters. When I see someone undercutting for 50% or more, I'm thrilled, because I can buy their stuff and repost it for an easy profit. It sounds to me like maybe someone is upset about having to adjust their prices due to the changing dynamics of the market.

[Bomyne]

I don't like "people undercutting on GTN by 50%" either. Make it at least 75%!

 

But seriously, I do appreciate that there are some players intentionally selling stuff for very little credits. I got a couple of CM armors for 500 credits which usually cost more than 100.000. I would have never bought them for normal price, but for 500 credits, I could add them to my collection without worrying.

 

Don't suppose you're on the Shadowlands, Republic side are you? I've been putting the cartel pack armour pieces up for about 500 credits each for a while on that server I Really don't care about making money, I just want to get those items to those that don't want to spend real world currency on the packs themselves, like yourself.

[AlrikFassbauer]

On a side note, if charity had a flavor what do you guys think it would taste like? i'm thinking charity tastes like vanilla ice cream. thoughts?

 

I'd expect it to taste like Banana. Or like Orange Juice.

[AlrikFassbauer]

but if you are in a situation where you can't keep up with demand, you might want to raise your price.

 

Why should one ? Having high demand is always a good thing . It means = selling more of the same thing ;9 => more profits.

 

There are always 2 ways of gaining profits :

 

- Selling few for high price

- Selling lots for low price

 

 

In the end, both will provide the exactly same results of profits.

 

 

 

By the way, let me tell you a story, OP :

 

A few days ago someone wanted sensor parts for the droid (Jedi companion).

After no-one answrred her, I gave in and asked what she needed.

After logging to my Cybertech crafting toon, I found that i could craft a nblue one and a green one (didn't reconstruct the green one yet).

We talked about it, i found that i needed 2 Xonolit for the blue part - which I bought from the Galactic Trade Market for 3000 - for both.

I said to her : "I just bought 2 Xonolit for 3000 - give me 4000 and we are quitt." ["we are quitt" with 2 "t" meaning in German language [probably dialect] roughly the same as "we are done with it" or, in this special case : "that's a deal".]

Later, after 10 minutes of crafting, she gave me 5000. For everything. I happily accepted.

 

Win-win situation for both of us.

 

And in the end, it's the fine little fizzy feeling of having done something BOTH can profit from, what counts to me.

Edited July 17, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[AMulls]

I can understand the complaint of undercutting. I think it's a little bigger issue on crafted items, but it can be frustrating on Cartel Market items as well.

 

On crafted items, there are potential overhead costs involved. Materials, time, etc. I get a little annoyed when I see a crafted item selling for less than what the materials cost. Granted, I understand that some materials can be collected by playing the game, thus helping to reduce the production cost, but then the time required to gather those materials and craft the item is increased. So, as to the OP, I can understand a bit of his frustration if the price the undercutter put on those crystals is below what the materials cost.

 

But, as others have said, just buy them and flip them at your price. You help regulate the market a bit and can actually reduce your overhead costs.

 

As for Cartel Market items, it's a little different issue. Some of the items that are super rare should be selling for more. Particularly if someone has spent real life money trying to obtain one of those items by buying packs. I'd be frustrated too, if someone was severely undercutting prices on the super rare items. At least once they have reached some market range, that is. Sure, you could say "Well why are you wasting real life money to just earn some in game credits? That's your own fault; money is so easy to get in this game." Again, it's a time vs. money thing. I can spend hours grinding dailies to make money, or I can spend a few bucks to get an item from a pack and sell it.

 

So, when you and/or someone else have both spent real life money on packs and you sell a super rare item for 500 credits, when the going market rate is 200K credits, it's a bad thing. You might think you're helping out someone who wants it, but at the same time, you're costing someone else real life money by devaluing the item on which you both spent money.

 

I'm certainly not advocating that we should all just agree on a price and burn at the stake anyone who doesn't sell at that price. That's the point of the free market; we are free to sell the items at whatever price we'd like. By all means, if you think items on the GTN are overpriced, sell them for less. Eventually, the prices will even out and there will be a general market range depending on the supply. But to sell something at a drastically lower price just to make a quick buck? That's harming your community more than it's helping.

[HelinCarnate]

I love the fact that most people are actually defending huge undercuts as if it's something smart to do. Torplayers.txt

 

(it never is and you are quite literally just throwing money away)

 

It is not my money until the item sells. I keep pumping out low price items that keep on selling and others have the same stuff at high prices that sit on the market and end up back in the sellers mailbox. Not exactly throwing money away when it keeps on flowing to me and not to those that price too high.

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

There are inherent risks to BIOWARE when the market loses its bubble, and charges too much for goods. I truly appreciate a poster that realizes that not all players have rich alts or sugar daddys, and thus are limited on what they can afford, especially when skill training is so expensive and does not leave much for other things.

 

Like any other person, and being a woman, how I look in the game is everything: If i don't look good while adventuring, why bother then?

 

If I find a costume article I want, and the lucky person who got it as a drop, or a person that manufactured it is asking for hundreds of thousands for it, I simply can't afford it and thus I am now frustrated and disappointed with my game experience.

 

The risk for BIOWARE is if that disappointment goes on for too long, I am quite likely to leave this game and go play another game that is more friendly to me, and thus there are less people paying to keep the game going.

 

I am all for reasonable profit, but truly I frown in greedy profit "what market will bear" attitudes, maybe that works in real life, but this is a game and I pay to play (subscriber) for the enterteinment value.

 

When I sell stuff at GTN, I take the suggested retail price and add 20% to that, and sell it. Maybe I am asking too much or severely underselling, I don't waste hours trying to min/max my profits, I just want to simply enjoy the game, my way.

 

Sue

[Acuzzor]

Quit whining. Its their item and if they dont want it, who cares if they sell it for lower price?

[JimG]

This is how you make money, you price with the rest of them within reason or people will not buy from you at all.

Yeah, sorry, but I'm buying the cheaper one....every time. I have no clue what you're talking about. Why on Earth would I pay double for something? Buy up the cheap ones and re-sell for a profit or wait them out and let them thin the supply and quit being so impatient.