4v4 warzones are coming!

[otherworlder]

That definately happens in the lower brackets. But in WoW's upper brackets (2600+) it had nothing to do with class comp and everything to do with skill (I'm talking about 3v3 and 5v5. Not talking about 2v2, as that was a mess and wasnt even considered serious by the players and developers alike).

 

If you think arena in WoW was all about comp i question how much arena you actually did in that game if any at all. If that was true, then the top players wouldnt have so many alts also in the 2600+ brackets(which almost all of them did) Class comp ONLY mattered in WoWs upper brackets when the team was 100% even skilled, which wasn't often. The better team almost always won.

 

Of course some specs were not playable in arena (nature of the beast). I'm not refering to that and I don't think you are either.

 

I did arena in WoW when it first came out, but never at a high ranking. While I'm a skilled pvper (not 'pro' but above average), my wife and I had an awful comp for 2v2 and my brother wouldn't even keybind for 3v3 so you can guess how that went. I also just didn't enjoy the format, and after a lot of research and theorycrafting we pretty much did what most pvpers did: lose 10 and profit.

 

And you can't say comp had no impact. In the absolute lofty echelons, I agree with you entirely. Everywhere else, comp was very much a deciding factor in most matches. There's a reason Blizzard wasted so much time and effort trying to balance classes around arena play.

 

You have to remember that the upper echelons you're referring to at those high rankings were and are a very, very small minority of the player base. If those are the players you're hoping this will attract, it's not much of a population gain and certainly isn't going to turn the pvp community into a thriving and sustainable one.

 

WZs / RvR / leveling pvp caters to pretty much everyone and can draw in both casual and hardcore pvpers (both skilled and unskilled) in droves. I would much rather have seen the development time spent there rather than on a minigame for one subset of that population.

 

And again, I'm not against the minigame per se. I'm just deeply disappointed by the fact that the first vaunted and promised pvp update in a long time is only going to support that one minigame, and the rest of us are stuck with the same bland WZ-go-round.

[otherworlder]

The current balance system for classes does not support arenas. I do not enjoy playing sins & ops vs sin & ops. Unless there is a complete revamp of all classes, which is not going to happen, arenas will never be balanced.

 

The only interesting part in the update is PvE part and am a PvPer...

 

What are BW plans regarding bolster? What is the plan regarding class balance updates, considering we have many classes with broken or semi broken trees? What is the plan regarding implementation of season one? Are we ever going to have a match making system?

 

These are way more important questions than implementing arenas that game current balance system can't handle. If PvP does not have a balanced system, adding 1 or 2 more maps or modes does not amount to much if the PvP system is not fixed.

 

BW told us about the least important side of the update in terms of PvP. And that might be the entire update PvP wise, which will be epic fail.

 

Agree 100% with all of this.

[Diefexor]

4v4 Arena. Healer, Jugg tank, Assassin, Jugg lolsmash....... Everybody has a tuant/mindcontrol.... 4v4 lends itself to lonnnngggggg matches in my mind.

 

I wish bioware well on there efforts to balance the game around 4v4. Going to be rough. Bla Bla Bla is OP QQ arena sucks! lol

[cycao]

The current balance system for classes does not support arenas. I do not enjoy playing sins & ops vs sin & ops. Unless there is a complete revamp of all classes, which is not going to happen, arenas will never be balanced.

 

The only interesting part in the update is PvE part and am a PvPer...

 

What are BW plans regarding bolster? What is the plan regarding class balance updates, considering we have many classes with broken or semi broken trees? What is the plan regarding implementation of season one? Are we ever going to have a match making system?

 

These are way more important questions than implementing arenas that game current balance system can't handle. If PvP does not have a balanced system, adding 1 or 2 more maps or modes does not amount to much if the PvP system is not fixed.

 

BW told us about the least important side of the update in terms of PvP. And that might be the entire update PvP wise, which will be epic fail.

 

I am willing to bet that there will be some class balance with 2.4 as we have not seen any apart from vengeance getting a speed buff.

 

Season one, bolster and matchmaking is what I wanted them to touch on and maybe they will be as we all 'knew' that arenas were coming with the hinting of it in the past few months.

[madtycoon]

The current balance system for classes does not support arenas. I do not enjoy playing sins & ops vs sin & ops. Unless there is a complete revamp of all classes, which is not going to happen, arenas will never be balanced.

 

The only interesting part in the update is PvE part and am a PvPer...

 

What are BW plans regarding bolster? What is the plan regarding class balance updates, considering we have many classes with broken or semi broken trees? What is the plan regarding implementation of season one? Are we ever going to have a match making system?

 

These are way more important questions than implementing arenas that game current balance system can't handle. If PvP does not have a balanced system, adding 1 or 2 more maps or modes does not amount to much if the PvP system is not fixed.

 

BW told us about the least important side of the update in terms of PvP. And that might be the entire update PvP wise, which will be epic fail.

 

What classes won't be able to compete in a 4v4 setting with tanks and healers? Classes are too homogenized to be unbalanced in those settings. DPS operatives and shadows are not going to be that strong. They are both very killable and their opener burst is easily negated by tanks. DPS operatives are probably going to be the weakest of all dps, because of their survivability when their healer/tank are both cced, but they bring the strongest off cleanse in the game and have good mobility to get back to a pillar during those chains. People seem to be worried about dps mercs/commandos underperforming. I think they'll probably be the strongest ranged dps in an arena setting, because they also bring a cleanse. I don't think people realize how important a second cleanse is in arena.

 

The meta becomes a lot harder when you have to deal with a second cleanse. Take an spriest last season. To land a CC on his healer you would also have to kick md or CC the spriest or you weren't getting a kill. This will probably be true in swtor. Whenever you're up against a second cleanse you are going to have to coordinate CC on the healer, tank and a second cleanser to get a kill in a lot of situations.

[DarthOvertone]

I dont have the link but I'm pretty sure i saw a post where BW says that arenas will be que'd with roles selected (heal, tank, dps, dps). Maybe this means they will have a restriction in game in which, for example, you can't que as DPS if you are a healer. Honestly, I would be shocked if they were smart enough to have restrictions without a loop that can be expoited, but It's a pleasant thought. If there was a way to force us to strictly have a healer, tank, and 2 dps'...i'd be more excited about Arena.

 

Frankly, the above sounds scary. Given BW's track record of incompetence regarding the implementation of systems for PvP, and no...I don't think that's too harsh a word for it, Arenas sound like the failboat of all hitherto experienced SWTOR failboats. I love the idea of Arenas in SWTOR. I just have zero confidence that BW will do it right.

 

Best case scenario is that we get Arenas with No Bolster and no queuing filters of any kind. Itemize the PvP gear correctly, make people wear it, and let them queue whatever teams they want in whatever variety of specs or classes.

 

 

The current balance system for classes does not support arenas. I do not enjoy playing sins & ops vs sin & ops. Unless there is a complete revamp of all classes, which is not going to happen, arenas will never be balanced.

 

I disagree with you. I think classes are closer to balanced now in this game than they have ever been. However, this idea that classes can be perfectly balanced in PvP is a mirage anyway. No PvP MMO has dialed class balance in perfectly...ever. In fact, it's a myth for the most part, certainly something to strive for, but never accomplished.

 

Let Arenas be what they will be. Let players queue the classes they want, the specs they want. If anything, it will help the Devs identify glaring imbalances in a reasonable amount of time, rather than taking months to identify and fix working off their internal data (lulz).

 

Another thing, leveling toons in this game is stupid easy. Aside from min/maxing Conqueror gear, gearing in this game is also stupid easy. Point being, everyone has had time to level toons and prepare themselves for changes. Class balance ebbs and flows with each update. Players that are really committed adapt to that environment.

 

Clownz QQ about players that flock to FotM specs and the like, but that is just a smart player adapting to their environment using the resources (toons) at their disposal. If you think a class is OP, then roll one. Not only will you be able to give the idea that the class is OP a run for its money, but you will learn the class well and be able to counter it more effectively in a competitive situation.

 

SWTOR makes it easy to level toons in this game. Legacy actually encourages it. So there is no reason that a player should miss out simply because they perceive someone else playing a FotM spec. It's just an excuse for laziness on their part.

 

 

Happy we are finally getting something but some of the major topics/issues have not been brought up in a while and part of the gripe a lot of PvPers have with the state of our part of the game is communication or lack there of.

 

Very tempered and elegant post mang. One thing to add to your statement about Matchmaking though, and that is that a Matchmaking System is desperately needed for Arenas, I would even say required. Otherwise, a ton of people will hit Arenas in excitement upon initial launch, and then suddenly disappear after a month when they tire of running up against the same 4-5 top teams over and over in the queue. Ranked failed because of this. Arenas will fail for the same reason if an effective Matchmaking System is not implemented.

 

In addition, Arenas are well suited to have a Ladder System. We PvPers are a simple folk. We just want to compete and be the best. We don't need in-game rewards, fluff or titles. Just give us an objective reference for our accomplishments, and if we are low on the totem pole, something to aspire to. That is what a Ladder represents. It is the reward for our efforts and the objective for our future endeavors. By the way, Ranked needs this as well.

Edited July 17, 2013 by DarthOvertone

[funkiestj]

Very tempered and elegant post mang. One thing to add to your statement about Matchmaking though, and that is that a Matchmaking System is desperately needed for Arenas, I would even say required. Otherwise, a ton of people will hit Arenas in excitement upon initial launch, and then suddenly disappear after a month when they tire of running up against the same 4-5 top teams over and over in the queue. Ranked failed because of this. Arenas will fail for the same reason if an effective Matchmaking System is not implemented.

 

A complement to intelligent matchmaking, which may result in longer time between queue pops, is the ability to do flashpoints and operations while you are waiting. Ideally BW would give us a PvE configuration and a PvP configuration (skill tree & quickbars) and switch between the two automatically when we load from FP to WZ and back.

 

In addition, Arenas are well suited to have a Ladder System. We PvPers are a simple folk. We just want to compete and be the best. We don't need in-game rewards, fluff or titles. Just give us an objective reference for our accomplishments, and if we are low on the totem pole, something to aspire to. That is what a Ladder represents. It is the reward for our efforts and the objective for our future endeavors. By the way, Ranked needs this as well.

 

Agreed. An important part of this is allowing for cross server competition among the most competitive teams. E.g. a cross server ladder (matches played on a PTS style PvP only server).

 

Other meaningful rewards: keep track of various records: e.g. most consecutive wins while at the top of the ladder or the top 10 most consecutive wins at the top and other epeen recognition.

[madtycoon]

I did arena in WoW when it first came out, but never at a high ranking. While I'm a skilled pvper (not 'pro' but above average), my wife and I had an awful comp for 2v2 and my brother wouldn't even keybind for 3v3 so you can guess how that went. I also just didn't enjoy the format, and after a lot of research and theorycrafting we pretty much did what most pvpers did: lose 10 and profit.

 

And you can't say comp had no impact. In the absolute lofty echelons, I agree with you entirely. Everywhere else, comp was very much a deciding factor in most matches. There's a reason Blizzard wasted so much time and effort trying to balance classes around arena play.

 

You're basing your information about WoW arena off BC? That was like 6 years ago...

 

Players were horrible back then compared to today.

 

Comp matters, but not that much. I doubt comp will impact swtor arena as much if both teams have a tank and healer. The tank role gives both teams the same defensives in guard and taunts and the 3 tanks and 3 healers are all pretty similar in their overall mechanics. The only real difference in comps will be the 2 dps you choose to bring.

 

Comps in wow are usually made because of DRs or zerg down cleaves. There are no DRs in Swtor and zerg down strats will probably be harder when facing a tank.

 

You have to remember that the upper echelons you're referring to at those high rankings were and are a very, very small minority of the player base. If those are the players you're hoping this will attract, it's not much of a population gain and certainly isn't going to turn the pvp community into a thriving and sustainable one.

 

I doubt this will attract high end wow players, unless they are bored and want something new. This game makes you appreciate how well wow is designed. They would need to fix interface lag/global cooldown bugs, add macros, add an arena targeting system and make a lot of other tweaks, because when you play this game it feels like you take a step back in actual gameplay after playing wow. Hopefully that stuff comes in time. They only have so much they can develop at once.

 

WZs / RvR / leveling pvp caters to pretty much everyone and can draw in both casual and hardcore pvpers (both skilled and unskilled) in droves. I would much rather have seen the development time spent there rather than on a minigame for one subset of that population.

 

The more players, the easier it is on underskilled players, that's true. Warzones will always be more popular, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't add different options for PvP. They really needed to add a second option. 4v4 is the perfect fit for this game, because it's combat is balanced around tank, healer and 2 dps.

 

Arenas also bring that next level of pvp. Warzones/BGs are fun for awhile, but soon you'll realize that you aren't going to have much say in the outcome and even the greatest player in the world is still reliant on his/her teammates. Not to say 4v4 you won't still be reliant on your teammates, but at least your play will mean more on the outcome of a match.

 

Most the people I know in wow, level and gear to play arenas.

 

Arenas also made the wow playerbase a lot better at the game. I didn't play in vanilla and only half of BC, but you can go back and look at the best player's videos from back then. Compare the game play with current players. Players evolved. Fake casting is a perfect example. I doubt anyone fake casted in vanilla wow. Now you can go into a random BG and half the healers will be trying to fake cast. Smaller scale pvp will make the playerbase better at the game.

 

And again, I'm not against the minigame per se. I'm just deeply disappointed by the fact that the first vaunted and promised pvp update in a long time is only going to support that one minigame, and the rest of us are stuck with the same bland WZ-go-round.

 

It would be nice if they also fixed a lot of the obvious problems with the current warzones/gameplay and added arena, but if I could choose, I would rather have 4v4.

[otherworlder]

You're basing your information about WoW arena off BC? That was like 6 years ago...

 

Players were horrible back then compared to today.

 

Comp matters, but not that much. I doubt comp will impact swtor arena as much if both teams have a tank and healer. The tank role gives both teams the same defensives in guard and taunts and the 3 tanks and 3 healers are all pretty similar in their overall mechanics. The only real difference in comps will be the 2 dps you choose to bring.

 

Comps in wow are usually made because of DRs or zerg down cleaves. There are no DRs in Swtor and zerg down strats will probably be harder when facing a tank.

 

 

 

I doubt this will attract high end wow players, unless they are bored and want something new. This game makes you appreciate how well wow is designed. They would need to fix interface lag/global cooldown bugs, add macros, add an arena targeting system and make a lot of other tweaks, because when you play this game it feels like you take a step back in actual gameplay after playing wow. Hopefully that stuff comes in time. They only have so much they can develop at once.

 

 

 

The more players, the easier it is on underskilled players, that's true. Warzones will always be more popular, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't add different options for PvP. They really needed to add a second option. 4v4 is the perfect fit for this game, because it's combat is balanced around tank, healer and 2 dps.

 

Arenas also bring that next level of pvp. Warzones/BGs are fun for awhile, but soon you'll realize that you aren't going to have much say in the outcome and even the greatest player in the world is still reliant on his/her teammates. Not to say 4v4 you won't still be reliant on your teammates, but at least your play will mean more on the outcome of a match.

 

Most the people I know in wow, level and gear to play arenas.

 

Arenas also made the wow playerbase a lot better at the game. I didn't play in vanilla and only half of BC, but you can go back and look at the best player's videos from back then. Compare the game play with current players. Players evolved. Fake casting is a perfect example. I doubt anyone fake casted in vanilla wow. Now you can go into a random BG and half the healers will be trying to fake cast. Smaller scale pvp will make the playerbase better at the game.

 

 

 

It would be nice if they also fixed a lot of the obvious problems with the current warzones/gameplay and added arena, but if I could choose, I would rather have 4v4.

 

I haven't played WoW or arena in a very, very long time, so that 6 year comment may be accurate. However the comment about player skill is frankly silly. I leveled three toons on pvp servers when that actually meant something other than ganking, and you had to use every trick in your book to kill enemy players (often being outnumbered or outgunned) just to get to a questing area or objective. Fake casting was definitely not unknown to us.

 

Arena may have popularized small scale pvp in WoW, but it didn't invent it. Ask anyone who leveled with a friend or two on a pvp server back in Vanilla.

 

I don't agree that Arena represents a "next step" or evolution in PvP, because that presumes a higher level of skill or commitment. I think it's just... a different option, which is fine. It's just not for me and a lot of other pvpers, and I doubt BW's lone pvp dev is going to be able to maintain anything resembling appropriate class balance across both arenas and WZs if Blizzard couldn't handle it.

 

You're presuming that a 4v4 matchmaking system will require 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps. If that''s true, it could work a bit better than WoW's system. But I haven't seen any confirmation of that being the case yet, and given that they're still allowing field respec in WZs it would be extraordinarily easy to cheat the system and bring in a gimmick comp instead.

[madtycoon]

I haven't played WoW or arena in a very, very long time, so that 6 year comment may be accurate. However the comment about player skill is frankly silly. I leveled three toons on pvp servers when that actually meant something other than ganking, and you had to use every trick in your book to kill enemy players (often being outnumbered or outgunned) just to get to a questing area or objective. Fake casting was definitely not unknown to us.

 

Arena may have popularized small scale pvp in WoW, but it didn't invent it. Ask anyone who leveled with a friend or two on a pvp server back in Vanilla.

 

I don't agree that Arena represents a "next step" or evolution in PvP, because that presumes a higher level of skill or commitment. I think it's just... a different option, which is fine. It's just not for me and a lot of other pvpers, and I doubt BW's lone pvp dev is going to be able to maintain anything resembling appropriate class balance across both arenas and WZs if Blizzard couldn't handle it.

 

You're presuming that a 4v4 matchmaking system will require 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps. If that''s true, it could work a bit better than WoW's system. But I haven't seen any confirmation of that being the case yet, and given that they're still allowing field respec in WZs it would be extraordinarily easy to cheat the system and bring in a gimmick comp instead.

 

Okay, maybe there were some exceptions in vanilla. I have no clue, but you can't argue that the overall pvp playerbase was better skillwise in vanilla compared to now.

 

I played with one of the top rogues on my BG in BC. He carried me to my first 3 glad titles on 2 toons (I was horrible, clicked a lot of my abilities including my party frames, just completely awful, but was considered good). And yeah this rogue was amazing back then, but I mean the kid didn't even have focus kick bound. He didn't even know he could sap off CC till he saw someone do it in an arena vid. I have a ****** alt rogue that I barely log on who on a good day I might be 2k with. I'm pretty bad for today's standards on rogue, but if I could go back in time and play in BC, I would be amazing.

 

Players have mostly gotten better in WoW PvP, because they have played the game for a long time and because of arenas. Smaller scale PvP forces players to get better at the game, because it is a lot harder to hide things like slow reaction time, weak awareness, inability to control your character properly and anything else that is generally thought of as individual skill, in a smaller setting.

 

Do warzones/BGs require more skill? You could make that argument, because you have to keep track of what's going on from a larger amount of players and pay attention to an objective. However, the more players you throw into a pvp environment, the less it is going to be about your own play and more its going to be about your teammates. This right there is why the vast majority of players become lazy rather than get better.

 

Why do I have to interrupt that heal over there? It won't stop my team from zerging down our target. It won't show up on the damage board. I don't have to bind flyby. I barely use that ability. What does it matter if I keybind it. It only takes me half a second longer to place it down. I don't have to pacify that master strike on my teammate. Its not going to make a difference between us winning or losing this game. He can just respawn anyways.

 

Now in 4v4 deathmatch, those people might end up losing and ask themselves why did we lose? Well that healer got a couple casts off we could have interrupted to land that kill. Well I died because I was stunned in that master strike. Did you have pacify up? Why did it take you so long to cast that flyby? You got behind and we had to use unnecessary defensives.

 

Smaller scale deathmatch pvp forces players to get better to win. There's probably going to be exceptions, comp and maybe some cheeze imbalances, maybe you can't find teammates or want to play with friends, but for the most part the higher skilled players rise to the top and the lower skilled players have to evolve to compete with them, which leads to an everlasting loop. That loop has made WoW PvPers a lot better and hopefully will do the same for the swtor community.

[glocklB]

I dont have the link but I'm pretty sure i saw a post where BW says that arenas will be que'd with roles selected (heal, tank, dps, dps). Maybe this means they will have a restriction in game in which, for example, you can't que as DPS if you are a healer. Honestly, I would be shocked if they were smart enough to have restrictions without a loop that can be expoited, but It's a pleasant thought. If there was a way to force us to strictly have a healer, tank, and 2 dps'...i'd be more excited about Arena.

 

If it's gonna be like group finder then I don't see a problem to queue in 2 tanks, 2 healers for example. Every tank/heal class has its dps tree and can queue for both roles.

 

Anyway I've been eagerly waiting for smaller scale battles and even though I would prefer 1v1 ladder, 4v4 TDD gonna be something interesting. In the end of the day: groups of 2 tanks and 2 healers or 4 healers won't kill anyone for sure if opponent has 1 healer, and contrarily 3 dpsers can burst down a non-guarded healer (4 healers group is going to be an easy shot IMO).

 

Arena match time limit with reasonable winner definition would work for stalemate cases. Assuming that heals and tanks are both aimed to stale the game even overall damage could be considered as a tie-break stat.

[platinumruggo]

Hmm... There will be multiple warzones. Another word with the same stem is multiply. The sign for multiply is X. 4x4 is another way of saying arena. 4x4=16.... THERE WILL BE 16 NEW MAPS

 

You sound like all those damn "half life 3 confirmed" people all over facebook and youtube..

[AlrikFassbauer]

That definately happens in the lower brackets. But in WoW's upper brackets (2600+) it had little to do with class comp and everything to do with skill (I'm talking about 3v3 and 5v5.

 

These 2 sentences make it easy to predict how the Arenas will work out in lower levels ... Will they be with or without Bolster ?

[Vaerah]

I didn't play in vanilla and only half of BC, but you can go back and look at the best player's videos from back then. Compare the game play with current players. Players evolved. Fake casting is a perfect example. I doubt anyone fake casted in vanilla wow. Now you can go into a random BG and half the healers will be trying to fake cast. Smaller scale pvp will make the playerbase better at the game.

 

I and my guildies were fake casting, expecially good for making opponents burn their CDs for nothing. From Black Rock Mountains "gank people on the way to Molten Core" and even before, at Tarren Mill.

[Mixcoatl]

No, they can't at all. Been there, seen that.

 

Which is quite dumb, because some threads (like the techincal support) should not be limited, I have been pref status and blocked out of the game for days because of never arriving authentication emails. Could not ask for technical support on the forum at all.

 

<Account went F2P 7/13/13. Apparently I can still post.

 

*We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum meltdown*

[TonyDragonflame]

Hope BW:

 

1. Make solo only and 2x-4x group only *ranked* queue. Make solo only *ranked* queue too.

2. Put Arenas in same queue as all other warzones, no seperated queue for them

 

Random solo deathmatch Arenas will be fun and fine... But solo random pug vs. premade will be just disaster, cuz solo'ers will leave it, and leaving ever 1 member of 4-man group its 100% lose.

Edited July 18, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[cashogy_reborn]

Hope BW:

 

1. Make solo only and 2x-4x group only *ranked* queue. Make solo only *ranked* queue too.

2. Put Arenas in same queue as all other warzones, no seperated queue for them

 

Random solo deathmatch Arenas will be fun and fine... But solo random pug vs. premade will be just disaster, cuz solo'ers will leave it, and leaving ever 1 member of 4-man group its 100% lose.

 

no.

 

5c

[cycao]

Hope BW:

 

1. Make solo only and 2x-4x group only *ranked* queue. Make solo only *ranked* queue too.

2. Put Arenas in same queue as all other warzones, no seperated queue for them

 

Random solo deathmatch Arenas will be fun and fine... But solo random pug vs. premade will be just disaster, cuz solo'ers will leave it, and leaving ever 1 member of 4-man group its 100% lose.

 

Why?

 

Most solo queue players don't really play objectives so they would stand a chance if they only task is pressing buttons in an orderly fashion to bring down certain targets.

[otherworlder]

Okay, maybe there were some exceptions in vanilla. I have no clue, but you can't argue that the overall pvp playerbase was better skillwise in vanilla compared to now.

 

I played with one of the top rogues on my BG in BC. He carried me to my first 3 glad titles on 2 toons (I was horrible, clicked a lot of my abilities including my party frames, just completely awful, but was considered good). And yeah this rogue was amazing back then, but I mean the kid didn't even have focus kick bound. He didn't even know he could sap off CC till he saw someone do it in an arena vid. I have a ****** alt rogue that I barely log on who on a good day I might be 2k with. I'm pretty bad for today's standards on rogue, but if I could go back in time and play in BC, I would be amazing.

 

Players have mostly gotten better in WoW PvP, because they have played the game for a long time and because of arenas. Smaller scale PvP forces players to get better at the game, because it is a lot harder to hide things like slow reaction time, weak awareness, inability to control your character properly and anything else that is generally thought of as individual skill, in a smaller setting.

 

Do warzones/BGs require more skill? You could make that argument, because you have to keep track of what's going on from a larger amount of players and pay attention to an objective. However, the more players you throw into a pvp environment, the less it is going to be about your own play and more its going to be about your teammates. This right there is why the vast majority of players become lazy rather than get better.

 

Why do I have to interrupt that heal over there? It won't stop my team from zerging down our target. It won't show up on the damage board. I don't have to bind flyby. I barely use that ability. What does it matter if I keybind it. It only takes me half a second longer to place it down. I don't have to pacify that master strike on my teammate. Its not going to make a difference between us winning or losing this game. He can just respawn anyways.

 

Now in 4v4 deathmatch, those people might end up losing and ask themselves why did we lose? Well that healer got a couple casts off we could have interrupted to land that kill. Well I died because I was stunned in that master strike. Did you have pacify up? Why did it take you so long to cast that flyby? You got behind and we had to use unnecessary defensives.

 

Smaller scale deathmatch pvp forces players to get better to win. There's probably going to be exceptions, comp and maybe some cheeze imbalances, maybe you can't find teammates or want to play with friends, but for the most part the higher skilled players rise to the top and the lower skilled players have to evolve to compete with them, which leads to an everlasting loop. That loop has made WoW PvPers a lot better and hopefully will do the same for the swtor community.

 

Well worded post. I would actually agree with the majority of this. I knew how to handle myself in in Vanilla, but I'd never argue I was a better PvPer then than I am now.

 

It's easy to adopt a zerg mentality when you don't feel at all like your individual choices will truly tip the scales in any kind of PvP encounter (RvR, WZ, world pvp, whatever) but in a smaller scale confrontation every choice you make is critical.

 

I miss that feeling. The hair on your arms standing up when you and your leveling pal are running down the road and around the bend comes two or three red names. Ahhh, the good old days.

 

It's unfortunate they segregated the quest zones so heavily in TOR, because that experience would have been a blast in a Star Wars setting. But I digress.

[Jeurydmog]

for a game that is 50/50 pvp and pve you cant have a solo pvp patch, is a 2.4 not a 2.3.3.4.5.6 patch is a new content patch that yes will bring pvp fix, bugs, wzs, brackets, 4x4 match but thats all about pvp! what else u expecteD? probably the new planet will have a open world pvp zone.... the thing is that ppl dont understand that they dont make things on the fly that planet and 4x4 wz were probably designed together with makeb... those operations probably are in devs's hhd sinve tfb first came out...but they as any company just release a bit of content to keep ppl waiting...

 

the pvp patch was they planned but maybe they thought " we already have all this pve stuff" why wait for 3 more patch.

is liek the 2 flash points of 2.3 .

 

so dont worry, i pvp since i start playing in 1.1 and after a year of pvp i decide to try pve while i wait for new stuff and now i want that 4x4 to return pvp full time again.

 

so the point is that no matter what you think, never will be a pvp only patch unless is to fix major bugs.

[sladek]

I can not imagine how arena matches will work under your management.

 

Now serious...Devs completely ignores balance class.

no one required change of several months in class balance.

In other words, it totally pisses.

 

and you want make arena way pvp..... Ulalala

 

Arena pvp ,this is nice,but with your access It will be a parody,trash,bad joke,nightmare,madnes.

U dont know how fix your stupid stupid 55 lvl bolster and now u want make another for you imposible staffs.

 

 

I'm curious what the **** add next time

Edited July 18, 2013 by sladek

[mattycutts]

im disgusted with this next patch.

 

The mega pvp patch gives us arenas yes not bad but yet again more pvp gear to grind, 90% of this patch will be pve, how can they claim its a pvp patch lol

 

wheres the new warzones?

 

wheres the reskins of existing maps?

 

wheres the ability to que as 4man teams for ranked games?

 

oh and almost forgot, PROPER OPEN WORLD PVP lol

[Going]

Shocking.

 

 

The 'PvP' update has more PvE in it than PvP...

 

 

God I hate this game sometimes I'm glad I am F2P.

 

No one ever said it was a pvp update lol

Get your head out of your ***

This patch is huge for pvp is what was said. And in every way it is true. 3 confirmed maps arenas!

Lmao

[CaparzoLOL]

I don't understand why they would only have 4's for arenas. They should make 2's and 3's also.

[cashogy_reborn]

I don't understand why they would only have 4's for arenas. They should make 2's and 3's also.

 

to keep balance relatively the same as 8v8s. tank, heal and 2 DPS are likely going to be the ideal comp (which is half of the ideal comp for a 8-man group)