Aurbere Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 It killed them instantly, and badly burned their bodies, taking into account that these guys are wearing heavy, protective armour. Sure Obi-Wan can try and block it with his lightsaber, but it will be difficult and leave him vulnerable, and if Malgus unleashes anything stronger? Obi-Wan is in trouble. Yes, I know. I have Deceived right in front of me. Merely stating that he hasn't disintegrated opponents with Force lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Taken from Wookieepedia: Darth Malgus: Prior to his duel with Adraas, Malgus became more powerful then ever before by eliminating his only source of weakness; Daru. Her death allowed Malgus to reach such a mental state that he resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it. Within this state, Malgus became virtually unstoppable. And from Darth Sidious' The Book of Anger: When anger intensifies to rage, it is unstoppable. Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated. Note the last part, never been duplicated, not even by Darth Vader himself. But we'll leave that for another time. Never seen that last quote. I was pretty sure of Malgus victory, now I think it's quite obvious. If, after more than 3,000 years, no Sith Lord was able to replicate his skills (keep in mind, that time encompasses Bane, Zannah, Plagueis, Vader, all the big guys), I cant' see how Obi-Wan will be able to stand a chance. I mean, I think it's clear that Vader, on his prime, would defeat Obi-Wan. Malgus has all of Vader's qualities and none of his flaws. The guy is, phyisically, the perfect fighter. He allies overwhelming strength with an unmatched speed. And all of you are foccusing on Shien. Malgus was able to use Makashi. He defeated Kao Cen Darach utilizing it. And you all remember how Obi-Wan was worn down when he confronted a Makashi practioner, simply because it makes Soresu useless, and counteracts perfectly Ataru. And about Kenobi vs. Opress, he achieved victory not due to superior lightsaber skill, but for intelligence, exploring Savage's knee fragility, but he was utterly pushed back during the rest of the duel. I really doubt Malgus, an experienced Sith Lord, will fall to such a simple tactic. And the power behind Anakin's blows doesn't compare to Malgus. And, I doubt Satele's speed was very behind Obi-Wan's. Remember, most of you guys agreed that Satele is more powerful than with the Force Obi-Wan. And Force Speed, as far as I know, is a Force skill. Since Satele had no physical holdings, she could use the ability at it's full extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Depends on what feats Malgus has displayed. So what has he displayed that hasn't been done before? Edited July 15, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 And, I doubt Satele's speed was very behind Obi-Wan's. Remember, most of you guys agreed that Satele is more powerful than with the Force Obi-Wan. And Force Speed, as far as I know, is a Force skill. Since Satele had no physical holdings, she could use the ability at it's full extent. Being more powerful does not automatically make you better in all areas. Many Jedi have displayed greater ability in one or two areas than their superiors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Depends on what feats Malgus has displayed. So what has he displayed? The Book of Anger is a in-universe book, wrote by Sidious himself. So no, it's not taking into account just up until Malgus time, it's everything up to the date when Sidious srote the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) The Book of Anger is a in-universe book, wrote by Sidious himself. So no, it's not taking into account just up until Malgus time, it's everything up to the date when Sidious srote the book. Ok but what has Malgus displayed, that hasn't been replicated or couldn't be? Edited July 15, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Wolfnin, you clearly misunderstood that statement from ROTS. It never says Anakin or Obi-Wan moved in a fraction of the speed of light. That statement is from the Battle of Coruscant, and it states that they, as a Jedi, can see a ship, even when it's traveling in a fraction of the speed of light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 How is it impossible exactly? Its The Force...last I checked also, this isn't real life so it doesn't matter if we don't have things that can't travel faster then light. Also...If that is what your referring to, then I don't know what it has to do with Force speed. Jedi reflexes are one thing, but being able to move your lightsaber at a fraction of lightspeed? I find that hard to believe. And yes, your right, Malgus is fast. Just see They didn't even have time to shoot. Furthermore, Malgus isn't going to try and slip past Obi-Wan's defenses, that's not his style. He's going to pummel Obi-Wan into oblivion and then rip out his heart. OK, so that's me exaggerating. But you get the gist, he's a power-fighter and he's going to power through Obi-Wan's defenses like he did with Darach. P.S. In reality, Anakin never actually saw Mace and Sidious fight. Though in the book he couldn't not percieve them, he just described them as a sphere of purple energy or something. Taking into account that this is Darth Sidious, and Windu was drawing on his power, bolstering the already impressive speed of Vaapad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Wolfnin, you clearly misunderstood that statement from ROTS. It never says Anakin or Obi-Wan moved in a fraction of the speed of light. That statement is from the Battle of Coruscant, and it states that they, as a Jedi, can see a ship, even when it's traveling in a fraction of the speed of light. I never said that they moved, I said they reacted to it and moved to avoid it with their ships. Edited July 15, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Ok but what has Malgus displayed, that hasn't been replicated or couldn't be? What anyone does in a battlefield? I bet he wasn't the nurse or the mailboy, he was in the vanguard of the battles he participated. He was literrally the tanker of the Imperial Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 What anyone does in a battlefield? I bet he wasn't the nurse or the mailboy, he was in the vanguard of the battles he participated. He was literrally the tanker of the Imperial Army. Yes I know, but what feats has he done though?....I'm not recalling anything out of the ordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Aurbere, Beni, i'd like to request we don't take Sidious' quote into account. Sidious didn't know that the battle rage Didn't falter Malgus. He wasn't there when Malgus used it, he only has sources, and as we know, as times go on War Heroes turn into legends, that turn into myths. The Legendary Darth Malgus is sure to be exaggerated once in a while, and those exaggerations will stay in the sources and Become history. And History is written by the winners. Do you not think the Republic would want him blown out of proportion, so when it they announce his Death, it seems like an incredible power was destroyed by the republic. Similarly the Sith Empire would do the same, whichever of them it ended up being. I know Darth Sidious was well informed, but knowing something so personal about a man who lived 3000 years in the past? Even he can't know for sure. Also.... Y u no reply to mah lightnen theoreh. I want to know if i was right Edited July 15, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) If that is what your referring to, then I don't know what it has to do with Force speed. Jedi reflexes are one thing, but being able to move your lightsaber at a fraction of lightspeed? I find that hard to believe. And yes, your right, Malgus is fast. Just see They didn't even have time to shoot. Furthermore, Malgus isn't going to try and slip past Obi-Wan's defenses, that's not his style. He's going to pummel Obi-Wan into oblivion and then rip out his heart. OK, so that's me exaggerating. But you get the gist, he's a power-fighter and he's going to power through Obi-Wan's defenses like he did with Darach. P.S. In reality, Anakin never actually saw Mace and Sidious fight. Though in the book he couldn't not percieve them, he just described them as a sphere of purple energy or something. Taking into account that this is Darth Sidious, and Windu was drawing on his power, bolstering the already impressive speed of Vaapad. You mean like how Anakin kept bull rushing Obi-Wan and yet the latter was still able to defend? But where did I say that Obi-Wan could move his saber at the fraction of lightspeed? I think somewhere, there was a miscommunication, I have been saying reaction time is like that not his speed, though his speed he is able to move in a blur. Edited July 15, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Malgus' lightning can't disintegrate opponents. Malgus killed a very powerful Jedi on Aldeeran with his lightning. Also, he destroyed several Jedi with his lightning on Coruscant inside the Jedi Temple. Which is probably the clencher..... I'd say that Malgus' lightning isnt powerful enough to kill Kenobi, even if he didn't get out of the way. Here's why: Malgus' lightning would be on Par with Dooku's i'd say, their power levels in the force seem to be around the same.... I know what you're thinking, Anakin took a blast of lightning to the face and survived.... He didnt get one shotted, like those three Jedi. But Anakin had some of the most powerful Raw force Energy the galaxy had ever seen. His Force-Shield was thrown up instinctively when Dooku blasted him, no matter how unexpected it was. And Anakins force shield, thanks to his raw force energy, would be more powerful than most. Even though Anakin's shield was so powerful, Dooku managed to tear through it and still knock him unconscious, as well as throwing him back into the wall... The only reason Anakin even recovered from this was his Undying devotion to his master (at the time) and the knowing that if he and his master failed, the woman he loved would be slaughtered, as she was just waiting outside, with only a few clones to protect her. Had the situation not been that, i'm not even sure Anakin would have recovered before it was too late. Got a little of track there, but the message is clear, if Dooku's lightning is capable of demolishing someone so powerful in the force, it would be able to "One Shot" a Jedi of the Caliber that Malgus was fighting. The fact that Malgus' bolts hit 3 people is inconsequential, the other 2 didnt even realise it was coming, so they had a weaker force shield than they would have anyway (Maybe if they had time to raise a shield, the "offspring" bolts wouldnt have killed them... TL;DR Malgus and Dooku's lightning is about the same power.... How's this relevant you ask? Obi wan deflected Dookus lightning. No! Reason provided above. --- Also, how would Obi-Wan cope against Telekinetic abilities of Malgus, let alone his lightning? Malgus had Force abilities of such level that he could singlehandedly perform Force Maelstrom feat. This is too much power for Obi-Wan to handle. Obi-Wan is heavily outgunned in this contest. Edited July 15, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Yes I know, but what feats has he done though?....I'm not recalling anything out of the ordinary. Here's the full excerpt of that section Beni quoted. (provided by Rayla ) Through the principles of anger, I will structure and maintain my Empire. The writings of Darth Malgus confirm that anger, combined with will, is the key to power. When anger intensifies to rage, it is unstoppable. Malgus submitted utterly to the dark Side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have ever been duplicated. It must be understood that anger can be funnelled through the body and released near the heart at the "vital gate." The destruction that can be unleashed by this method is immense. Thousands of enemies can be annihilated in a single act of malice. In time, the channeled anger of the dark side will prove just as destructive as the Death Star. There will no longer be a need for costly constructions. Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom, which creates an invulnerable energy sphere to block incoming attacks while bombarding enemies with debris and electrifying them with bolts of lightning. This technique can be increased into a Force Storm. The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space. It may take decades to master this art, but once I have perfected it, I will be invincible. Now, make your conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Here's the full excerpt of that section Beni quoted. (provided by Rayla ) Now, make your conclusions. Yes Marc...I get that, but what I want here is FEATS/EVIDENCE of him displaying these battlefield things that can't be duplicated. I get the quote....but what I want is evidence. Edited July 15, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Here's the full excerpt of that section Beni quoted. (provided by Rayla ) Now, make your conclusions. Read my post on why we shouldn't use that. Not in the way you're currently using it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Yes Marc...I get that, but what I want here is FEATS/EVIDENCE of him displaying these battlefield things that can't be duplicated. I get the quote....but what I want is evidence. Malgus's entire story have not been documented actually. Malgus have demonstrated the capability to defeat very powerful opponents in single combat. He killed a powerful Jedi Master (Kao Cen Darach, who was also a master swordman) in his first clash against the Jedi. Later on, he nearly subdued Satele Shan (a Force prodigy) on Aldeeran but was overwhelmed, thanks to efforts of Malcom. Still he survived cliff-shattering power which is incredible and went on to fight two more Jedi on the same planet while being heavily injured. One of these Jedi was very powerful and collapsed two buildings around the position of Malgus to crush him beneath but Malgus was a telekinetic powerhouse as well, prevented the debris from crushing him beneath (blowing it apart in different sections to free himself) and then killed both Jedi; weaker one by Force Choke, stronger one by his Force Lightning. Then he carved a path of destruction inside the Jedi Temple, slaying another master swordsman in the process. Later on, he humiliated Lord Adraas in single combat. Malgus is among the greatest warriors of the Sith Empire he served and is recognized by Sidious as one of his strongest predecessors. Edited July 15, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Malgus killed a very powerful Jedi on Aldeeran with his lightning. Also, he destroyed several Jedi with his lightning on Coruscant inside the Jedi Temple. No! Reason provided above. --- Also, how would Obi-Wan cope against Telekinetic abilities of Malgus, let alone his lightning? Malgus had Force abilities of such level that he could singlehandedly perform Force Maelstrom feat. This is too much power for Obi-Wan to handle. Obi-Wan is heavily outgunned in this contest. "He killed a very powerful Jedi on Alderaan" Kk. Great. Doesn't disprove my theory. The Jedi didn't know how to deflect lightning (Or he would have at least tried) and he didn't as strong force shield as Skywalker. Doesn't disprove my theory at all. And the TK aspects are another matter, which i wont get into because i'm not trying to defend Kenobi here. Im impartial in this, dont know who'd win and the only purpose of my posts is to help root out assumptions, and comments that are not fact but are being treated like fact. Edited July 15, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) "He killed a very powerful Jedi on Alderaan" Kk. Great. Doesn't disprove my theory. The Jedi didn't know how to deflect lightning (Or he would have at least tried) and he didn't as strong force shield as Skywalker. Doesn't disprove my theory at all. And the TK aspects are another matter, which i wont get into because i'm not trying to defend Kenobi here. Im impartial in this, dont know who'd win and the only purpose of my posts is to help root out assumptions, and comments that are not fact but are being treated like fact. That Jedi used two lightsabers to shield himself from bombardment of Sith lightning but Malgus threw his all at him, ruining him in the process which led to his death. This Jedi was much more powerful then Obi-Wan in AOTC. In contrast, Dooku's lightning could be contained/handled by a single lightsaber. Edited July 15, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Which is probably the clencher..... I'd say that Malgus' lightning isnt powerful enough to kill Kenobi, even if he didn't get out of the way. Here's why: Malgus' lightning would be on Par with Dooku's i'd say, their power levels in the force seem to be around the same.... I know what you're thinking, Anakin took a blast of lightning to the face and survived.... He didnt get one shotted, like those three Jedi. But Anakin had some of the most powerful Raw force Energy the galaxy had ever seen. His Force-Shield was thrown up instinctively when Dooku blasted him, no matter how unexpected it was. And Anakins force shield, thanks to his raw force energy, would be more powerful than most. Even though Anakin's shield was so powerful, Dooku managed to tear through it and still knock him unconscious, as well as throwing him back into the wall... The only reason Anakin even recovered from this was his Undying devotion to his master (at the time) and the knowing that if he and his master failed, the woman he loved would be slaughtered, as she was just waiting outside, with only a few clones to protect her. Had the situation not been that, i'm not even sure Anakin would have recovered before it was too late. Got a little of track there, but the message is clear, if Dooku's lightning is capable of demolishing someone so powerful in the force, it would be able to "One Shot" a Jedi of the Caliber that Malgus was fighting. The fact that Malgus' bolts hit 3 people is inconsequential, the other 2 didnt even realise it was coming, so they had a weaker force shield than they would have anyway (Maybe if they had time to raise a shield, the "offspring" bolts wouldnt have killed them... TL;DR Malgus and Dooku's lightning is about the same power.... How's this relevant you ask? Obi wan deflected Dookus lightning. Then how would you explain how Ventress and her Nighsisters survived this? A far more potent attack? Malgus' lightining would have killed those sisters for sure, if not Ventress as well. Also the idea that the Jedi 'didn't see it coming' is irrelevant. They were just as prepared as Anakin was, if not more prepared being in the midst of a battle of Force users. I can assure you their Force barriers would have been up, just as Anakin's was. I'd also point out that Force barriers to do not 'scale' they are either on or off. Malgus is considerably more powerful than Dooku, as is his lightning. Malgus' mastery of Force lightning was so vast that he mastered the Force maelstrom, a stepping stone to the Force storm itself. Remembering that it was Malgus, not Dooku who Sidious referenced as a perfect example of a dark side wielder. He is so powerful in the dark side that he became a part of it, and is easily the most powerful Sith Lord (excluding the Sith Emperor) since Exar Kun, and surpassed only with the emergence of Plagueis. And his feats in battle surpassed even Darth Vader himself. He is not to be underestimated. Now Wolf asks what has Malgus done, which gives me an excuse to make a nice list: Batted aside huge chunks of metal with his lightsaber with ridiculous ease, then proceeded to plough through a starship engine completely unscathed. I cannot recall a single occasion where anyone has been able to bat aside such large objects with their lightsaber. Let alone with ease. Ripped through the defences of a Jedi Battlemaster in seconds, display the sheer power of the Force rage Sidious makes reference to. Even though Darach was tired, this remains unprecedented. Survived a point-blank explosion to the face, followed by being pummelled by a powerful Force wave that buried him under tonnes of rubble. I'm don't think I need to provide a link here. I'm sure we can all recall the event and how damn painful that looked. Malgus, after emerging from the rubble. Proceeded, without receiving medical treatment, to engage a a Jedi. The Jedi collapsed a building on the already weakened Malgus and through the sheer power of his anger Malgus burst out from the rubble, and slaughter the Jedi. Taking the time, in the midst of the duel, to Force choke another Jedi to death who was had hidden his presence and was planning on ambushing him. Killed three Jedi with a single burst of lightning instantly despite them likely wearing protective armour. Only Sidious himself has destroyed Force users of such caliber with his lightning. While carving a path to Zallow, he was waylayed by three Jedi which he killed in seconds. I know people at this point are probably taking Malgus' awesomeness for granted by now () but lets not forget these are Jedi Knights. Not walking bantha poodoo, yet Malgus treats them as such. After witnessing Daru being blasted into a column by Ven Zallow he entered another hate filled fury and Force choked a random Jedi who tried engage him, ripping through his Force shields and killing him. Like a lame dog. Then, after all that, Malgus experienced Oneness with the dark side and became even more powerful. Oh and something else I found on Wookiee. Three Republic troops opened fire on Malgus who perceived dozens incoming blaster fire with perfect clarity and deflected those bolts back at the attackers, killing them all. Obi-Wan isn't going to be too fast for Malgus, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Nice explanation, Beni. Obi-Wan is heavily outgunned in this contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Then how would you explain how Ventress and her Nighsisters survived this? A far more potent attack? Malgus' lightining would have killed those sisters for sure, if not Ventress as well. Also the idea that the Jedi 'didn't see it coming' is irrelevant. They were just as prepared as Anakin was, if not more prepared being in the midst of a battle of Force users. I can assure you their Force barriers would have been up, just as Anakin's was. I'd also point out that Force barriers to do not 'scale' they are either on or off. Malgus is considerably more powerful than Dooku, as is his lightning. Malgus' mastery of Force lightning was so vast that he mastered the Force maelstrom, a stepping stone to the Force storm itself. Remembering that it was Malgus, not Dooku who Sidious referenced as a perfect example of a dark side wielder. He is so powerful in the dark side that he became a part of it, and is easily the most powerful Sith Lord (excluding the Sith Emperor) since Exar Kun, and surpassed only with the emergence of Plagueis. And his feats in battle surpassed even Darth Vader himself. He is not to be underestimated. That was a valiant attempt Beni The Nightsisters drugged Dooku beforehand, making him weaker in combat... Dooku had to blast all three of them at once, or he'd leave an opening, he knew arcing his lightning to 3 foes would diminish the power of his bolts and he knew it wouldn't kill them with the Nightsister magic coursing through his veins (Though he didnt know it was Nightsister, he certainly knew it diminished his attacks), and in his state he could not keep it up for long. He therefore directed the lightning into a Telekinetic attack, meant to throw them from the cliff not kill them. Maybe you're right about the Jedi preparedness.... But... Your force barrier comment? Depending on the strength of the individual, the barrier could only withstand a few attacks before collapsing. Depending on the strength of the individual, the barrier could only withstand Depending on the strength of the individual, Ummmmm Pretty sure it scales to force strength o.0 Now Wolf asks what has Malgus done, which gives me an excuse to make a nice list: Ahhh if only i was supporting Obi-Wan.... I could do the same Edited July 15, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm surprised no one has taken the tactical senses and mentality of Malgus and Kenobi into account. Seems like a big deal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm surprised no one has taken the tactical senses and mentality of Malgus and Kenobi into account. Seems like a big deal to me. Can you quickly look over my little thing about sidious' comment? Post on the previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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