marcelo_sdk Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Yet Satele is able to? I'm no expert, but isn't Kenobi's force push stronger than her's? He did master it completely, and force repulse. I'm willing to say the same thing about Malgus, unless you can show me evidence. Not that it is you, but I want to see this. As for the the force push, I think Kenobi would have time, especially as he does know Shein. He could if need be use it to fight back and make an opening for a force push. And I though we concluded that Kenobi is faster than Malgus? He could side step and push before Malgus sees whats happening. Satele was able to Force Push him once, after Malgus endured a missile and a grenade to the face. Also, she was able to hold him not via Push, but by manipulating the air currents. She needed to throw an incredible Force Blast to knock him out, even them it wasn't enough to defeat him. Kenobi never attacked Grievous, he just parried the slashes, and eventually, Grievous arms collided with his lightsaber. Malgus technique is eons more refined than Grievou's, he'll never commit such a childish mistake. Against Malgus, Kenobi's Soresu will serve only to prolong the fight, but the outcome will eventually be Malgus winning. And I there's no reason to believe that Kenobi was faster than Malgus. Edited July 17, 2013 by marcelo_sdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Not true, Malgus is incredibly agile - overcoming the primary weakness of Djem So. Incredibly agile may be a stretch. He was outmaneuvered by Aryn Leneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 And I there's no reason to believe that Kenobi was faster than Malgus. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mefit Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Obi-Wan Kenobi all the way , King of Star Wars Trolls and the most Defensive Jedi to ever live . I do not think Malgus would fall to the same thing Anakin did being Anakin was at the beginning of his time as a Sith and did not yet know how to control his hate and anger like Malgus does. We have to look at it this way Anakin knew Obi-Wan Kenobi , from his Soresu Style and how he used it ,to everything about him Personally. * Yet even Anakin with all his time with Obi-Wan Kenobi who was literally like a Father to Anakin and Raised him , not to mention Anakin knew many Forums of Combat to Counter Soresu , was MORE POWERFUL than Kenobi , and yet still fell to Trollesu . (Not saying Anakin knew Soresu , I am unsure of that at this moment .) Lets not forget the only time Obi-Wan Kenobi truly lost was when he raised his lightsaber up and closed his eyes to a Vader's final Blow . Obi-Wan did more with less and shows with all the powers and skills others might have it does not mean they will always win . Obi-Wan was wise enough to see when Order 66 happened and how to get out of it when many Jedi some would consider more powerful , more skilled, and more wise could not . I just do not see Malgus winning this one , there just was no Obi-Wan in the Old Republic . What I am saying is , Anakin knew Obi-Wan personally . Spent a Life time with him , was more powerful and skilled than Obi-Wan , and in the end no matter how you look at it Obi-Wan walked away unscared physically (not mentally I am sure being he loved Anakin ) and Anakin was on Deaths Door only being held alive by his Hate and Power , Scared for life in a Suit built to keep him alive ! Call it luck if you like , but Obi-Wan won like he always did as he always did . Less Powerful but more Wise than most Jedi . Edited July 17, 2013 by mefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Alright, I think I've heard every possible argument. So make your final arguments, and I'll make a decision after I've considered every possible scenario (providing scenarios for your final argument gives you extra bonus points!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Alright, I think I've heard every possible argument. So make your final arguments, and I'll make a decision after I've considered every possible scenario (providing scenarios for your final argument gives you extra bonus points!) Here's mah l33t Analysis.... Lol. Not how i think it'll end, because I don't know how it will end, but this is what i think the Battle will consist of. Obi-Wan first uses his ability to manipulate Electronics to take out Malgus' respirator. He knows this won't kill him, but will weaken his intake of Oxygen, and hey, any advantage helps. Malgus charges Obi-Wan, and attacks with a series of Heavy but consistent blows, in an attempt to break through Kenobi's defensive lines. Obi-Wan blocks each strike as they come, slowly backing Malgus into the center of the Arena, away from corridors and Objects. Kenobi presses the Offensive, attempting to flourish multiple attacks at Malgus, hoping one will eventually get through enough to wound him. Malgus' determination makes it nigh impossible for Kenobi to penetrate his defense, as Malgus calls upon his rage to fuel him. Malgus recovers from Obi-Wans onslaught, pushing him back towards a wall. They enter a fierce saber lock, wherein Malgus pushes Kenobi's saber back just inches from his Neck, Kenobi however kicks Malgus in the knee, breaking the Sith's concentration momentarily, but long enough for Kenobi to send a massive force push at Malgus, knocking him into an opposite pole. Kenobi starts flourishing again, but in a surprise move, right as he gains the offensive, leaps over malgus. Malgus spins round and slices at waist height, however Obi-Wan had managed to duck down, almost streamlined to the floor, in a prediction of Malgus' reaction. He swings wildly at malgus' leg, slitting his knee open slightly, before Malgus leaps back in Fury. They enter yet another lightsaber battle, with Obi-Wan taking shot's at malgus' knee at every opportunity he can. Eventually Obi-Wan force repulses Malgus back into a wall, to momentarily stop the Darth's onslaught. Malgus begins to channel a Force Maelstrom however, and too soon Obi-Wan realises his mistake in letting them get so far apart.... What happens next, i dont know. There are Hundreds of doors he could flee through, but then what would the outcome be? Edited July 17, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Sorry, Sel, but pushing out of a window is an invalid strategy, simply because it pushes them out of the provided arena (remember this is a simulation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Sorry, Sel, but pushing out of a window is an invalid strategy, simply because it pushes them out of the provided arena (remember this is a simulation). Awwwww come on... The arena is the east wing of the senate building That's still the east wing! Ok, i'll take out the force pushes, but we still get the same situation.... Just smaller maelstrom objects. Edit: New scenario up Edited July 17, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Awwwww come on... The arena is the east wing of the senate building That's still the east wing! Ok, i'll take out the force pushes, but we still get the same situation.... Just smaller maelstrom objects The objects aren't neccessary to the Maelstrom's success. If Malgus can unleash it, Kenobi, if he don't wish to go t the eye of the Maelstrom and fly like a ragdoll, will have to concentrate all his will and Force to keep ground. What leaves little room to avoid the barrage of Force Lightning and objects (at least, there'll be broken a lot of broken glass from the Senate's Windows). But still, I think Kenobi won't be overpowered by Malgus Force skills, in the end I think he'll be overwhelmed by Malgus lightsaber attacks. Again, he never faced anything similar to it. And he wasn't unbeatable like you said Canino. He was defeated twice by Dooku, by Maul (he killed him, but let's face it, in the duel Maul was clearly victorioua, and I doubt Malgus will make the same mistake) on Theed, and probably again on Florrum, if not helped by Hondo. Please understand, I have nothing against Kenobi. After some backstory was provided on TCW, he became my favorite SW character. Yet, unfortunately, I don't see any way out for him against Darth Malgus. Edited July 17, 2013 by marcelo_sdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Yet Satele is able to? I'm no expert, but isn't Kenobi's force push stronger than her's? He did master it completely, and force repulse. I'm willing to say the same thing about Malgus, unless you can show me evidence. Not that it is you, but I want to see this. As for the the force push, I think Kenobi would have time, especially as he does know Shein. He could if need be use it to fight back and make an opening for a force push. And I though we concluded that Kenobi is faster than Malgus? He could side step and push before Malgus sees whats happening.There are several exceptional circumstance that led this to happening: Malgus' Force barriers were weakened by a point black explosion. This gave Satele an opening that allowed her to charge a Force push. Malgus was further weakened by the impact of slamming into the cliff. Satele held Malgus back by manipulating air currents, Malgus was too weak and too far away to resist. Satele only managed to neutralize Malgus by unleashing an incredibly powerful Force wave upon his severely weakened Force shields. And yet still Malgus survived. Satele is arguably just as skilled and even more powerful than Obi-Wan in the use of Force push. If Obi-Wan were to attempt to pin Malgus to a wall in a similar manner (assuming he is even capable of doing that) Malgus would not be sufficiently weakened, or far away enough to be powerless to resist, and would likely follow up with a Force-based attack of his own. Again this is making the assumption that Obi-Wan can manipulate air-currents on such a magnitude, he has never done so before and I don't believe he is powerful enough to do so. Simply put, its a highly unlikely scenario. A more likely scenario is this: Malgus engages Kenobi with a fierce assault, attempting to power through his defenses. Obi-Wan is forced on the defense and uses his exceptional skill in Soresu to ward of his attacks. However he is unable to launch a counter-offensive due to the lack of maneuverability and reprieve. Obi-Wan however manages to maneuver Malgus to a more open arena were he can mount a better offense and Malgus is forced out of his assault, however Malgus' tight defense and battle precognition proves effective against Obi-Wan's onslaught, Obi-Wan manages to land a blow but it is negated entirely by Malgus' incredibly durable armour. Realizing that he cannot defeat Obi-Wan through lightsaber skills alone Malgus chains a Force push into his attack, slamming Obi-Wan against the nearest wall. Malgus then capitalizes on his vulnerability by unleashing a barrage of Force lightning, Obi-Wan attempts to block the lightning with his lightsaber and attempts to close the gap between himself and Malgus, however Malgus lightning proves to powerful and he is overwhelmed, succumbing to his injuries. Unable to mount an offense and entirely unarmed, Malgus cuts him down. . P.S. Is it just me, or does it actually look like Malgus says those words after killing Zallow? I like to think that he was narrating the whole thing while in the middle of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 By the way I'm assuming this takes place in the halls of the East Wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) [*]Satele only managed to neutralize Malgus by unleashing an incredibly powerful Force wave upon his severely weakened Force shields. And yet still Malgus survived. I thought it was noted that if his girlfriend didnt save him, he would have died in that rubble? Oh, and stop posting scenarios and start posting Traya fan fics! (You're constant badgering of Aurbere for this series has inspired me, I'm going to put this in one post every day until you do it ) Edited July 18, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 By the way I'm assuming this takes place in the halls of the East Wing? Sorta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Sorta. Based upon the picture, Obi-Wan has plenty of places flee to if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Based upon the picture, Obi-Wan has plenty of places flee to if need be. Exactly. There must be a Hundred doors leading to different places, not even counting the corridors. Granted, the doors would only act as temporary shelter from a maelstrom, as they likely lead into small rooms, but it's still an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Exactly. There must be a Hundred doors leading to different places, not even counting the corridors. Granted, the doors would only act as temporary shelter from a maelstrom, as they likely lead into small rooms, but it's still an advantage. I'm thinking if Obi-Wan flees the main area, Malgus is just going to follow. I doubt he's just gonna stand there in the center of a Maelstrom all day. That would be boring. For Obi-Wan, I mean. I bet it's a rush standing at the center of a Maelstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) I'm thinking if Obi-Wan flees the main area, Malgus is just going to follow. I doubt he's just gonna stand there in the center of a Maelstrom all day. That would be boring. For Obi-Wan, I mean. I bet it's a rush standing at the center of a Maelstrom. Pfft you know what I mean... Easy retreat from the Maelstrom before it gets too powerful (Build up, remember) Malgus would give up, and if he tried it again then it would drain his energy too fast.... I'd say your arena completely negates the Maelstrom Cause as soon as Obi-Wan thinks Malgus is about to launch after him, he can reappear, keeping the large room and avoiding the Maelstrom. Edited July 18, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Pfft you know what I mean... Easy retreat from the Maelstrom before it gets too powerful (Build up, remember) Malgus would give up, and if he tried it again then it would drain his energy too fast.... I'd say your arena completely negates the Maelstrom Hm... I felt the arena perfectly balanced the two. Obi-Wan's got his Sokan opportunities, and Malgus has... something... He does what he does. Though I have made some mess-ups with arenas (brought to my attention by the skilled debaters of the BattleZone). Sora Bulq vs. Darth Vader: the arena was perfect for Vader to utilize the many objects as weapons. Plo Koon vs. Qui-Gon Jinn: the arena provided many methods for Plo Koon to alter the environment. Darth Plagueis vs. Lord Vitiate: the arena was the most crucial tool for Plagueis' victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Hm... I felt the arena perfectly balanced the two. Obi-Wan's got his Sokan opportunities, and Malgus has... something... He does what he does. Though I have made some mess-ups with arenas (brought to my attention by the skilled debaters of the BattleZone). Sora Bulq vs. Darth Vader: the arena was perfect for Vader to utilize the many objects as weapons. Plo Koon vs. Qui-Gon Jinn: the arena provided many methods for Plo Koon to alter the environment. Darth Plagueis vs. Lord Vitiate: the arena was the most crucial tool for Plagueis' victory. I didn't really bring Sokan into the Battle-Strategy. I mean, where else can he go? Going into smaller corridors isnt really good or bad, there's no high ground... Corridors i guess bring cover, and a chance to rest, but i wasnt really sure how it'd fit in. If you have any suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 I didn't really bring Sokan into the Battle-Strategy. I mean, where else can he go? Going into smaller corridors isnt really good or bad, there's no high ground... Corridors i guess bring cover, and a chance to rest, but i wasnt really sure how it'd fit in. If you have any suggestions Judging from the image, it seems he has those balconies he can jump up to if he has to. Not the best position, but it's a way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Well, there's not much else to say. All the points were made, now it rests upon your shoulders, Aurbere. Just the final considerations, a picture of the fight as I imagined it. - Malgus won't be able to overwhelm Obi-wan with his Force Powers. This fight will start with lightsabers. Malgus vicious offensive will give no room for Obi-Wan to launch counter-attacks. He sees that he won't be able to position the Sith Lords strikes the way he wants. Malgus, by the other hand, realizes that Kenobi's impenetrable Soresu won't give any openings. Both fighters will have to change their tactics. - The corridors of the Senate East Wing gives no room to low your guard. Malgus launches a kick into his opponents chest, with the intent to give his room to play his new tactics. Kenobi notices the nearby door leading to a conference room. He immediately enters. Malgus rush behind it's opponent: he can't lose his prey of his sight. As soon as he enters into the room, Kenobi strikes from the upper balcony. The strike almost catches the Sith Lord offguard. He receives only a rebound slash on his shoulders, which is absrobed by his armor. Nonetheless, the impacts builds up Malgus rage. He mocks the Jedi, saying he lost his only chance of victory. - Malgus initiates the attack. But his slashes, Kenobi notices, are not as strong as before. He also lost some speed. His shoulder! The Jedi realizes his strike was not so wasted. Seeing the chance he have, Kenobi starts to fight back the Sith Lord. He apllies all his mastery of Ataru. Malgus, still, defends all his slashes. Kenobi is unaware, but that's exactly what the Sith wants. Malgus easily defends Kenobi's slashes. He still keep up his ruse with his shoulders, but the time for the final offensive is near. He sees perfectly where the Jedi will place each strike. The Jedi launches another slash with his lightsaber: it'll be his last. - Malgus launches a swing with all his hatred behind it. The power of the strike was so great that, after meeting Kenobi's lightsaber, takes the hilt out of balance on his hands. Malgus takes the opportunity and cut the weapon in two. Facing the door, Malgus launches a wave of Force Lightning. The unaware Jedi is caught off guard and launched against the wall. Malgus approaches his opponent, again on the corridors. He cleverly blocked the Jedi's way inside the room. He can only run to the sides. Malgus launches another barrage of Lightning. The Jedi is able to avoid it, and launches a Force Pull. Malgus receives some of the blast's potency, but still he's able to hold his ground. - Kenobi run to the left. Malgus throws his lightsaber. Kenobi manages to avoid it, but as he's mid air, the full potency of Malgus's lightning meets him. Totally in control, the Sith Lord continues the barrage of power, now at full strength, until the Jedi is no more. Edited July 18, 2013 by marcelo_sdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I think I have said it before. 1. Malgus tactical mind is limited to his opponent and not his surroundings. every move he makes is to either exploit and opening or create an opening by making his opponent move not by using the environment. Obi-wan on the other hand does both his stance may be primarily passive, but in both his fight with Anakin and several others we see he doesn't just stand by and only defend. His defenses are great enough and I truly do not believe malgus's skill with a blade is good enough to make Kenobi ever take a full on hit meaning he will have more then enough opportunities to counter-strike. I personally believe in a some what combined thing of Marc's and selenial's scenario. Where malgus continues to try to push at Kenobi. With Kenobi keeping pace and retreating where he needs to be. Malgus becoming angry and frustrated starts relying on force powers and chucks Kenobi through a door, and tries to follow up with an attack that Kenobi easily dodges and pushes Malgus, disappearing into the next room. Malgus comes after him and as the fight goes Kenobi takes the fight into an area with stairs and keeps himself at the higher ground using his skill in Sokan against Malgus. As Malgus tries to climb the stairs Kenobi pushes him back down them stunning him just long enough to get a very quick Ataru strike in. Satele does very well against Malgus and Kenobi is argueably a better Ataru master as well as being physically stronger then Satele as well as having a much stronger defense and tactical mind. The rooms have more then enough area's with high ground for Kenobi to take advantage of as well as places to retreat to if Malgus tries a Maelstrom. Unlike Malgus, Kenobi will actively try to take advantage of the terrain while Malgus will only try to create openings in his opponent the same way any one with considerable martial skill would do, this is something Kenobi is more then proficient in handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I thought it was noted that if his girlfriend didnt save him, he would have died in that rubble? Oh, and stop posting scenarios and start posting Traya fan fics! (You're constant badgering of Aurbere for this series has inspired me, I'm going to put this in one post every day until you do it )Lol, do. I'm writing it, but I get distracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Before I decide who wins, I have a something for everyone to consider. What impacts would the loss of his respirator have on Malgus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Before I decide who wins, I have a something for everyone to consider. What impacts would the loss of his respirator have on Malgus? A depleted oxygen level to the blood can reduce ability to build muscle and lose fat on the long term basis, but short term, the build up and maintaining of energy becomes a lot harder. In short, he'd lose stamina and energy... #medschool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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