Sab/Eng Roll is OP

[maverickmatt]

I consider the rolling against a wall to drop all of the bombs an exploit, because their is literally almost no way whatsoever that a melee (even operatives, which are supposed to be strong against snipers) can kill a saboteur gunslinger. Saboteur gunslinger cannot continue to exist as the only literally unkillable class of SWTOR.

 

The argument "well have a ranged DPS kill the saboteur gunslinger" does not work. Gunslinger does more DPS than both of the other two ranged DPS classes, and has interrupt immunity.

 

To add to that...

 

The idea that a ranged class that has superior Ranged DPS and instakill Melee DPS is working as it should (and not an exploit) is farfetched. Ranged classes deserve to get dynamited if they allow a melee to get in their face. Snipers have no such issues at the moment.

 

Therefore it is an exploit.

 

I quoted you because you made a very good point, not because I disagreed.

 

 

On a side note, I've run into Watchmen recently and either I haven't seen your sniper or they aren't using it (unlike the other guild I've already addressed here. Thanks Log and Lae... So much fun in CW at 3am. Yeah.. no 'sploiting from you guys at all. Everyone on mumble saw it). I applaud you for that.

Edited July 14, 2013 by maverickmatt

[Doomsdaycomes]

To add to that...

 

The idea that a ranged class that has superior Ranged DPS and instakill Melee DPS is working as it should (and not an exploit) is farfetched. Ranged classes deserve to get dynamited if they allow a melee to get in their face. Snipers have no such issues at the moment.

 

Therefore it is an exploit.

 

I quoted you because you made a very good point, not because I disagreed.

 

 

On a side note, I've run into Watchmen recently and either I haven't seen your sniper or they aren't using it (unlike the other guild I've already addressed here. Thanks Log and Lae... So much fun in CW at 3am. Yeah.. no 'sploiting from you guys at all. Everyone on mumble saw it). I applaud you for that.

 

Also not quoting to disagree.

 

Can't say I've had much experience with this (although secretly I wanna try it on my sniper. Never done Engineering, Marksman stole my heart) but it sounds like an exploit to me. There is no way it is intended for a mechanic like: "Places bombs as you roll" to be canceled mid way by a jump (or a wall) and still have the "Place Bombs" effect. Considering it also then speeds up the effect of the ability (1/2 time spent on the roll, still full payload of bombs.)

 

That's all I got to say.

[Ryvirath]

I think everyone is failing to notice the 1 meter radius on clustering the detonations. It's not tearing up ranked and normals because snipers are not a melee class nor is there a reasonable success rate associated with double bombing. I was getting less than a 25% success rate when I tried it because the amount of miliseconds you take to jump after rolling changes how far you go. Landing even .5 meters off = no detonations. Beyond that it is heavily negated by armor. 1800 is roughly equal to your max value per bomb. Most classes are going to be shaving off 600-1200 from that depending on taunts and expecting crits is unreliable. It's a stupid interaction, but it's also not that good. Much ado about nothing.

[TheCourier-]

On a side note, I've run into Watchmen recently and either I haven't seen your sniper or they aren't using it (unlike the other guild I've already addressed here. Thanks Log and Lae... So much fun in CW at 3am. Yeah.. no 'sploiting from you guys at all. Everyone on mumble saw it). I applaud you for that.

 

Our sniper runs lethality.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I think everyone is failing to notice the 1 meter radius on clustering the detonations. It's not tearing up ranked and normals because snipers are not a melee class nor is there a reasonable success rate associated with double bombing. I was getting less than a 25% success rate when I tried it because the amount of miliseconds you take to jump after rolling changes how far you go. Landing even .5 meters off = no detonations. Beyond that it is heavily negated by armor. 1800 is roughly equal to your max value per bomb. Most classes are going to be shaving off 600-1200 from that depending on taunts and expecting crits is unreliable. It's a stupid interaction, but it's also not that good. Much ado about nothing.

 

An exploited mechanic that "works" 25% of the time is still an exploited mechanic. Now maybe it's not "Ruining" anything, but it's still an exploit and it's still causing a sniper to outperform where it should not. That's all.

[Raazmir]

Unconvinced it's any worse than smash into ravage.

 

 

Actually takes more nimble fingers than smash into ravage does.

[maverickmatt]

Unconvinced it's any worse than smash into ravage.

 

 

Actually takes more nimble fingers than smash into ravage does.

 

That's like saying that a if a Smasher's saber throw were an AoE 3 man instakill it would be fine.

 

You're a ranged class.

 

Anything that allows you to do that much damage at melee range is obviously broken, and you know it.

[Jakev-]

Rolling into a wall like in the first video isn't an exploit. If you are fighting next to a wall vs a Eng sniper you deserve to eat their bombs. Also I wouldn't really call rolling in place an "exploit", but rather just using stupid game mechanics. Kind of like corner capping in NC before the fix.

 

Imagine in a rated civil/hypergate turtle 1 side has a Juggernaut and an engineering sniper the other an assassin and an operative.

 

The jug can force push the operative into the wall and the sniper can wallbang him, Insta kill leaving the assassin 1v2 which can result in a cc cap. (Which in civil whichever team gets the first cap pretty much has a 90% chance of winning the match) Its stupid.

 

The simplest solution would seem to be to have the skill drop one bomb per every so many meters (on an 18 meter roll, once every 3.6 meters). This way they cannot all blow up on one person either in the open or against a wall, but they will still function exactly as intended.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jakev-

[Zunayson]

Imagine in a rated civil/hypergate turtle 1 side has a Juggernaut and an engineering sniper the other an assassin and an operative.

 

The jug can force push the operative into the wall and the sniper can wallbang him, Insta kill leaving the assassin 1v2 which can result in a cc cap. (Which in civil whichever team gets the first cap pretty much has a 90% chance of winning the match) Its stupid.

 

Son, if all bombs crit it barely breaks 30k, this is including a 60% damage bonus to the lightly armored Lv 51.

 

No way can a decently geared operative take the scatter bombs to actually kill him.

 

Plus it's just synergy with KBs and stuff.

[maverickmatt]

Son, if all bombs crit it barely breaks 30k, this is including a 60% damage bonus to the lightly armored Lv 51.

 

No way can a decently geared operative take the scatter bombs to actually kill him.

 

Plus it's just synergy with KBs and stuff.

 

Actually...

Let's just say it DOES break 30k. The push typically hits between 1.5 and 2k

 

So the operative would need 32.5k hp to survive.

 

Now lets talk about the jugg leaping to the Op during (or after) a the rollbang. Dead.

 

I play a fully geared, minmaxed and all, Guardian...

 

I can vouch for the rollbang near-instakilling me. Yes, the op has heals, but he can't react fast enough to use them.

 

 

At any rate, a ranged DPS should NEVER have the tools to kill a melee in his face. Nevermind a near-instakill...

Edited July 16, 2013 by maverickmatt

[JP_Legatus]

It covers the corners of the bunker if you place *** inside the node building. Teams can still do the mez-capping outside though. Having 2 Eng snipers would cover almost the entire cap area.

 

Rolling into a wall like in the first video isn't an exploit. If you are fighting next to a wall vs a Eng sniper you deserve to eat their bombs. Also I wouldn't really call rolling in place an "exploit", but rather just using stupid game mechanics. Kind of like corner capping in NC before the fix.

 

Agreed, as long as they fix the jumping issue this would be fine. But that ***** needs to go asap.

[Jakev-]

Son, if all bombs crit it barely breaks 30k, this is including a 60% damage bonus to the lightly armored Lv 51.

 

No way can a decently geared operative take the scatter bombs to actually kill him.

 

Plus it's just synergy with KBs and stuff.

 

If its not an instakill, The juggernaut and the sniper both have executes... it would bring him to critical health

[FourPawnBenoni]

It'd be nice to get a dev response here please.

 

Thanks to those that reported it.

[NoTomorrow]

It will probably be changed in the future, the amount of bombs dropped will be equal to the actual distance rolled.

[dcgregorya]

I brought this up months ago when 2.0 first came out on a thread about ranked wz teams and was told engineer sniper is awful for rateds by nubs who didn't understand the implication of an instant 15k+ AOE burst every 20 seconds added to all the other massive AOE damage engineer does.

 

Fact I seem to recall people telling me MM was just sooooo much better.

[NoTomorrow]

I brought this up months ago when 2.0 first came out on a thread about ranked wz teams and was told engineer sniper is awful for rateds by nubs who didn't understand the implication of an instant 15k+ AOE burst every 20 seconds added to all the other massive AOE damage engineer does.

 

Fact I seem to recall people telling me MM was just sooooo much better.

 

it's a bug that will be fixed. The actual state won't last.

[Barnacles]

IMO It shouldnt stay, because its design is to be a defensive ability... People are using it offensively and killing people instantly

 

For Example.

 

In a rated match in civil war (True story)

 

Both Team A and Team B send 2 middle 4 Snow and 2 Grass

 

At middle the fight is Team A - Juggernaut tank and a Sorcerer healer for an attempt to turtle the middle node

Team B Guardian tank and a Saboteur Gunslinger

 

The Juggernaut and the sorcerer should be able to turtle the two at mid and will eventually kill them.

 

Instead, Team B's Guardian tank pushes team A's sorcerer into a wall and the Gunslinger Rolls on the sorcerer. The sorcerer pops Force barrier so the gunslinger wastes his first wallbang

 

But they do it again in the next minute without the sorcerer having barrier. The sorcerer is instantly killed through guard and the juggernaut is flashbanged/awed and unable to stop the gunslinger from capping. This results in team B getting the first cap.. which in rateds 9/10 times the game is already decided.

 

The same thing happens multiple times in the match insta killing people while the grass node goes uncapped...

 

That's just good coordination imho, although to the original poster I agree the jump interrupt isn't working as intended.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Barnacles

[Zunayson]

Actually...

Let's just say it DOES break 30k. The push typically hits between 1.5 and 2k

 

So the operative would need 32.5k hp to survive.

 

Now lets talk about the jugg leaping to the Op during (or after) a the rollbang. Dead.

 

I play a fully geared, minmaxed and all, Guardian...

 

I can vouch for the rollbang near-instakilling me. Yes, the op has heals, but he can't react fast enough to use them.

 

 

At any rate, a ranged DPS should NEVER have the tools to kill a melee in his face. Nevermind a near-instakill...

 

It breaks 30k with a 60% damage bonus from expertise.

 

So many things are damned near insta kill on an expertiseless target it's not even worth mentioning...