JPryde Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 How about scrolling up in the thread if you're so curious. Jeez, doesn't anybody ever read these things? Well actually I did read the whole thread and I got to admit that I also did not notice any proof for Ord Mantel to be designed with underwater content in mind. Ord Mantel got some open water, but Alderaan got that as well. And you cannot swim anywhere on Ord Mantel, the open water areas are just working as the same kind of boundary as walls and mountains do on other maps. So no, I cannot see how Ord Mantel should be any indication for being designed with some water content in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 There was like... 1 scene in the Star Wars Saga that was underwater and it on on Naboo and all the did was swim down... There was a 'car chase' scene also, but maybe they can add an underwater Space Combat MIssion... Under Water Combat Mission...you know what I mean. I'm no Star Wars Science expert but how do lightsabers, blasters, missles, flamethrowers and force lightning work underwater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 How about scrolling up in the thread if you're so curious. Jeez, doesn't anybody ever read these things? I read them, and aside from one offhanded remark by one character that says you have to swim (which I know is in game), and something about hydrospeeder in Trooper strory (which I do not recall), you are not presenting any facts that would support your theory that underwater content was supposed to be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Well actually I did read the whole thread and I got to admit that I also did not notice any proof for Ord Mantel to be designed with underwater content in mind. Ord Mantel got some open water, but Alderaan got that as well. And you cannot swim anywhere on Ord Mantel, the open water areas are just working as the same kind of boundary as walls and mountains do on other maps. So no, I cannot see how Ord Mantel should be any indication for being designed with some water content in mind. You must have missed this post: I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. "Everyone hates underwater content", are you people for real? That's like saying everyone hates racing games, or platforming, or whatever other feature/genre you can think of. Some racing games suck, others are fantastic. Same applies to the platforming aspects of a game; it's all in the execution. Just because you didn't like GW2's underwater aspect—which, personally, I quite enjoyed—doesn't mean you wouldn't like a similar feature in SWTOR, provided its design was ingenious enough to cater to your personal tastes. But anyway, onto the point: SWTOR was obviously released in a germinative state, as most of you know. However, its developers were smart enough to leave a foundation in place that could allow them to add certain elements—or rather, systems—to the game post-release. These can be found all over the place (I'm surprised more players haven't picked up on them), and include systems as potentially complex as vehicle hit points, weather cycles, counter-spying missions (Last Emperor Flashpoint), pazaak, swoop races, entertainment careers, player housing and yes, water-based shenanigans. "But wait, what are you talking about? I've never seen anything in the game that suggests the potential inclusion of any water-based systems! Troll." Well then, you aren't looking hard enough. Why don't you go ahead and go back to Ord Mantell. Do the class-quests there with either a Smuggler or a Trooper and count the number of times NPCs expressly state, loud and clear, the necessity of your having to swim across to Manett Point because the bridge is out. There's even a reference to the use of a hydro-speeder on the Trooper side. But then, when you get there, the water barely goes above knee length. This vast body of water NPCs keep alluding to was obviously not meant to remain in its current puddle-like state indefinitely, and the reason why it was put in place in the first place was so that it might allow for the future inclusion of swimming/hydrospeeder features. This is why I keep going on about retroactive changes, it's essential that they preserve the original creators' vision: mostly because it seemed a heck of a lot cooler than anything we've gotten thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm no Star Wars Science expert but how do lightsabers, blasters, missles, flamethrowers and force lightning work underwater? Did you just use "Star Wars" and "Science" in one sentence? Star Wars made almost zero attempts to have any real or even pseudo science in it. You are just supposed to accept that those thing work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) I read them, and aside from one offhanded remark by one character that says you have to swim (which I know is in game), and something about hydrospeeder in Trooper strory (which I do not recall), you are not presenting any facts that would support your theory that underwater content was supposed to be included. What more do you want? I mean, if NPCs on both the Trooper's and Smuggler's class-quests explicitly referring to the existence of something, which then turns out NOT to exist, doesn't suggest that that something was at some point or other intended to be included in the game, then I don't know what will. Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I couldn't have anything to do with the fact that "swimming" sounds better than "wading" right? Also, swimming != diving. Also, hydrospeeder (wherever is it said, I do not recall that conversation) seems to be just a version of speeder that flies above water. And it is something that does not have a single mention on Wookiepedia, so I have my doubts about its existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Did you just use "Star Wars" and "Science" in one sentence? Star Wars made almost zero attempts to have any real or even pseudo science in it. You are just supposed to accept that those thing work. I get that, but in the expanded universe like The Old Republic and stuff they like to fill in some of those holes and take themselves really seriously. There are pages for 'Everything you wanted to know about force lightning and more!' and even an explanation as to why some Troopers and Mandos wear belt skirts... but the real answer is because it's cool and stylish. So I feel like even though it's all space magic, it's somewhat grounded with an... 'acceptable' explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I couldn't have anything to do with the fact that "swimming" sounds better than "wading" right? Also, swimming != diving. Also, hydrospeeder (wherever is it said, I do not recall that conversation) seems to be just a version of speeder that flies above water. And it is something that does not have a single mention on Wookiepedia, so I have my doubts about its existence It's alluded to, not explicitly referenced. Here's the video link for a refresher: (starts at around 15:30) "you'll have to make an amphibious approach" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Also, if you're curious, the Smuggler video: (starts at around 12:56) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Amphibious does not mean diving or swimming, it simply means attack from water (like Normandy landing during WW2, that was amphibious assault, land forces launched from ships) Seaspeeder mentioned in there probably means just what I said before, speeder that hover above water (so probably a normal speeder with better repulsors that provide higher lift) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Most people don't want underweater content [...] Says you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmreitz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I swear when I read the title of this thread, I thought it said "Why the lack of underwear content". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Amphibious does not mean diving or swimming, it simply means attack from water (like Normandy landing during WW2, that was amphibious assault, land forces launched from ships) Seaspeeder mentioned in there probably means just what I said before, speeder that hover above water (so probably a normal speeder with better repulsors that provide higher lift) Funny. I could almost swear you're still not entirely convinced Ord Mantell was originally designed to have water-related systems. It's almost as if... Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Kotor didn't have underwater combat. You has to wear a bulky, slow suit and use that special sonic device to kill the firaxan sharks before they could eat you, but there were no sabers or blasters. It's a cool concept, but one that for this game would require too many resources that could be allocated elsewhere for more important projects. Edited July 12, 2013 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I think it'd be a great idea if done correctly. I spend as much time when I play Skyrim exploring underwater as I Do on land. You find the coolest stuff underwater. And they'd just have to add underwater specific weapons & vehicles for the combat aspect. Although personally instead of combat I'd rather see "chases" (ex. Get away from the giant fish/get to a hiding spot) and exploration for items & crafting materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leene Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I swear when I read the title of this thread, I thought it said "Why the lack of underwear content". Yeah, me too I wouldn't have anything against the possibility of seeing a planet like Manaan being introduced into the game (loved that one in KotOR). However, I do not think that part of the game and subsequently combat situations should take place in actual water or underwater, for the various reasons already stated in this thread of people who have a much better grasp of the technicalities. Bases that are located underwater which you can explore? Sure, that'd be great, would probably make for some awesome ambiance or whatever you want to call it. But actual gameplay in water? No, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Kotor didn't have underwater combat. You has to wear a bulky, slow suit and use that special sonic device to kill the firaxan sharks before they could eat you, but there were no sabers or blasters. It's a cool concept, but one that for this game would require too many resources that could be allocated elsewhere for more important projects. First you say something and in the next sentence you explain why your first statement isn't true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 First you say something and in the next sentence you explain why your first statement isn't true The underwater segment of KOTOR (imo, the most annoying part of KOTOR) cannot be considered a underwater combat. You do not use any other combat techniques, just a sonic pulse with extremely long charging time ti drive away some sharks. It is like saying "there is not mounted combat in SWTOR" and someone arguing that there is mounted combat because you can drive your speeder and jump from it straight into battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Funny. I could almost swear you're still not entirely convinced Ord Mantell was originally designed to have water-related systems. It's almost as if... Nah. Yes, I am still not convinced about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Yes, I am still not convinced about that. Oh, well. I guess if the screaming obviousness of it all is *still* lost on you, then there's nothing I can do it about it. Let me guess: hard-numbers type of guy. Data-analytics? Actuary? Whatever the case, we are worlds apart, my friend... Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockaday Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Oh, well. I guess if the screaming obviousness of it all is *still* lost on you, then there's nothing I can do it about it. Let me guess: hard-numbers type of guy. Data-analytics? Actuary? Whatever the case, we are worlds apart, my friend... Except for anything the devs have said...it's always been "we have no current plans for water content" yada yada, you're reading too far into things. It's called backstory, setting, etc. One of my toons has a giant cult...yet I don't get nor are there any hints at economics / political gameplay. But from your reasonings, there is. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine-Elf Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Again. Writers in videogames are usually very careful about making sure they do not unwittingly telegraph a game system to players through in-game cutscenes, codex entries, or any of the other means through which they relate story. To have two separate creative departments agree and give the got-to for the use of these "oceanic allusions" is about as far from happenstance as it gets. I'm sorry, but anyone who fails to realize this isn't quite with the program. Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtonewbie Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Says you. Explain to me how the following abilities will work in an underwater or 3d setting, one that has no floor nearby. -kolto packs, medical packs, kolto missile -death from above -orbital strike -sweeping blasters -Death Field -Revivification -any abilities i may have missed that are either a GT heal or GT damage Take someone that makes regular use of their GT abilities and ask them what they think of underwater combat. And remember this isnt GW2, that game has collision detection so anyone that wants to use their melee spear instead of a harpoon get some help with disorientation. You can run foward and you will stop once you hit the edge of the bad guys hit box. Here it will be more like WoW...if you target a ranged NPC and go towards him you go right through him. Trying to represent a 3 dimensional space on a 2 dimensional screen just plain sucks. In game when you are fighting on the surface it works because you use the ground to judge your distance to the target. You are on the ground your target is on the ground so you know your distance. In 3d space/water unless you fight on the ocean floor, you lose the ability to use the ground as your reference point. This isnt a problem if you are a ranged character, but it is more of a problem if you are melee. I'm willing to bet that most people that dont like 3d zones or fights, dont like it because of that spatial disorientation. Not to mention there is the 'is this safe to do underwater' part. a BH underwater that is mostly flame based? troopers with ion surge and plasma crap, a sorc that shoots lightning underwater? Yah you can say that Jedi and Sith can put their lightsabers in plastic bags, or that blaster players get projectile or needler based weapons instead. But how do you explain away the other stuff? or are we just gonna say "eff it" on that stuff too and do whatever? Edited July 12, 2013 by swtonewbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Oh, well. I guess if the screaming obviousness of it all is *still* lost on you, then there's nothing I can do it about it. Let me guess: hard-numbers type of guy. Data-analytics? Actuary? Whatever the case, we are worlds apart, my friend... Informatics student, programmer, IT basics teacher and gamer, actually. I have no problem imagining stuff, but I simply am unable to conceive something as complex as underwater gameplay (which usually sucks in most games) based on two water related words in two dialogs. Based on what I know from game, can I imagine speeders sliding across water on Ord Mantell? Yes. Can I imagine a complete underwater gameplay based on it? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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