Cross healing is ridiculous

[Atramar]

I have a suggestions to people who complain about healers:

1.run a healer and learn how to counter them

2.run a healer and see how fun is it to run from DDs all day long

3.before WZ starts ask 'no one heal me' and see how your warzone will look like if healers get nerfed.

4.do pvp as a healer for quite some time and imagine a marauder can kill you with his bassic attack.

5.stop japping when you have no healers in your group.

[Ergecrs]

i have a suggestions to people who complain about healers:

1.run a healer and learn how to counter them

2.run a healer and see how fun is it to run from dds all day long

3.before wz starts ask 'no one heal me' and see how your warzone will look like if healers get nerfed.

4.do pvp as a healer for quite some time and imagine a marauder can kill you with his bassic attack.

5.stop japping when you have no healers in your group.

 

qfe.....................

[Zalgred]

Wow do you people play healing classes?

 

PVP is not a dps strictly business... I play most of the time as a healer on warzones, and role different classes, ans some are more efficient than others... Scoundrels and Operatives are wicked if you compare them to Commandos and Mercenaries.

 

Healing right now in pvp is very hard and its not a job all people can do... its true that if you have a couple of good healers your team seems invincible, buts that's only because the people that are healing are team players and know what they are doing...

 

The above goes the same way for dpers... if you have a couple of guys that pull their wights in dps they will carry most of the deadbeats on your team and make you look good...

 

Right now pvp is struggling with the following scenario: there is a group of veteran players that keep rerolling toons and keep pvping in 10 to 29 and 30 to 54, and a whole new group of F2P player that most of the time does not know what the hell they are doing, and since they can only pvp a limited amount of times they suck most of them...

 

All of you that say that healers are overpower please go and roll a toon and play it as a healer most of the time and you will see that is not as easy as some players make it look like, and that you depend on team players to actually do a good job... no matter how good you are, if the rest of your team ignore covering you or helping you when there is 2 or 3 guys focusing on you, you will suck at healing and will be frustrated most of the time... usually when you see healers dealing more that 400k on heals, it means they were playing on premades or some of their team members helped the healer thought out the match.

[Zalgred]

I have a suggestions to people who complain about healers:

1.run a healer and learn how to counter them

2.run a healer and see how fun is it to run from DDs all day long

3.before WZ starts ask 'no one heal me' and see how your warzone will look like if healers get nerfed.

4.do pvp as a healer for quite some time and imagine a marauder can kill you with his bassic attack.

5.stop japping when you have no healers in your group.

 

Agreed.

[WillHolmes]

Just need a passive healing reduction debuff while in PVP such as there was pre 2.0 which reduced all heals by 30%

[Zalgred]

Exactly. Cross healing is simply a part of the game, just as focus fire is. The only difference is former is easier to coordinate than the latter, but not in anyway that's too difficult for PuGs.

 

Usually, a team consisted of at least 3~4 experienced players don't even need any voice input or chat coordination. We can just watch and observe how the fight progresses and imemdiately take our positions in doing what we must. In many cases you don't even need to actually kill the healers -- relentless harassment from even a single good player is usually enough to drive them running like cattle, or keep them from effectively healing anyone. Just two or three of these determined harassers and effectively enemy heal efficiency drops lower than 30% of normal at the least.

 

The reason why it is difficult to fight against multiple healers usually comes not from difficulty of stopping enemy heals, but usualy from THE SHORTCOMING OF YOUR OWN TEAM'S HEALERS AND THE REST OF THE TEAM. Really. It's called "lack of coordination".

 

When harassers take positions and start pressing enemy healers, if the enemy team has a few smart people, immediately they start to peel. The healers run towards the back, which means the harassers need to keep on them and go deep in the midst of enemy formation. This is the point when your own team's tanks and healers are needed the most, so they can taunt some of the peelers, CC the rest, and the healer needs to be fast and accurate enough to keep both the harassers and the tanks alive.

 

Usually, failure to keep the enemy healers under check happens when your team's harassers aren't supported properly so they die out first. In turn, that usually happens when the team's main tank and healer players are too timid and narrow-sighted/target fixated, that they only engage the enemy nearest to them and fail to see the 'big picture'., When your harassers go deep to keep on the enemy healers, the tanks and healers and rest of the support also need to go a little deeper than usual to keep them alive. This is where usually PuGs fail, since they don't have the concept of 'team coordination', their perception over the entire battlefield is usually limited to maybe a 10m radius around.

 

The healers themselves are never the problem. It's always your own team's problem first.

 

well said sir!

[Maelael]

 

While I understand where you are coming from look at it from a healer point of view and you'll see that they are as thrilled as you are getting 50 kills when noone dies on their watch.

 

You haven't played enough of the boredom of 3 cross healing healers at a node that neither side can take for 10+ minutes straight yet. Doesn't even take a talented healer to do it either.

 

I had one last night with 2 crappy sage healers and a scoundrel - two puddles with cross healing and scoundrel DoT = nobody dies, even with repeated 8-9k hits on them (I hit 850k damage that fight repeatedly zerging ONE node). We even focus fired them, and were lucky to get a few kills off. Funniest part? It was pub v pub, and our side had no healers. We won from taking the other nodes - we had about 200 deaths, they had about 15. If that team didn't suck at objectives, they should have lolrolled us.

 

Even the healers know it's boring. True it's luck of the draw, but it's not fun for either side really.

[Tragamite]

You haven't played enough of the boredom of 3 cross healing healers at a node that neither side can take for 10+ minutes straight yet. Doesn't even take a talented healer to do it either.

 

I had one last night with 2 crappy sage healers and a scoundrel - two puddles with cross healing and scoundrel DoT = nobody dies, even with repeated 8-9k hits on them (I hit 850k damage that fight repeatedly zerging ONE node). We even focus fired them, and were lucky to get a few kills off. Funniest part? It was pub v pub, and our side had no healers. We won from taking the other nodes - we had about 200 deaths, they had about 15. If that team didn't suck at objectives, they should have lolrolled us.

 

Even the healers know it's boring. True it's luck of the draw, but it's not fun for either side really.

 

Very incorrect sir, I have played plenty of battles like this. Like I said before as a tank being a part of these battles are epic. I am not going to kill anyone as a true tank I just don't have the dps but I've stood strong against an entire team allowing my team to cap and hold nodes and then ask where the enemy was.

 

Not being able to kill someone is frustrating but hardly boring. If you find challenge boring then all you're asking for is an "I WIN" button.

 

Again I DO fully understand and it frustrates me to no end when you are pugged against same faction and one team gas 3 healers and the other has none.

 

Boring is sitting at an uncontested node for the entire match. Challenging is trying to win a node when a team has the ability to beat you.

[Odahviin]

I think they need to nerf Cross damage. if one dps is attacking me damage from another dps should be nerfed.

 

Now same argument how stupid does that sound ? If you nerf cross healing your gonna kill ranked. Two healers in a ranked match can barely keep people up against a good group of players focus firing.

 

The problem is bad players make good players look like gods.

 

you forgot to mention heals output is more than dps output

 

therefore cross damage isn't on the same level as cross healing

 

buuuuuut nevermind

[Maelael]

Challenging is trying to win a node when a team has the ability to beat you.

 

There is no challenge in stalemates due to poor game design. If a heal-off stalemate of "nothing happens" is a challenge to you, or even "fun" to you, the current state of PvP is for you. Not for me.

 

And as a Jugg, I've tanked 5 people with one Op healing me. For 10+ minutes. All DDs. Something is wrong with that, as I, nor the Op, is that good nor were we that well geared at the time.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Maelael

[SuperGrunt]

That's what Expertise is for. Right now, Expertise gives healing buff. Drop the buff from expertise, and you nerf healing in PvP without touching PvE. The only real problem with that is that not all healers need the same nerf. Operatives/Scoundrels for example are MUCH more potent and problematic than Mandos/Mercs.

 

Commandos are not Mandalorians, the BH is the only player Mandalrian in the game, people seriously need to stop calling Commandos Mandos, call them Comms or something.

 

That buff to Healing from Expertise, is to counter act the debuff from PVP combat to healing called Trauma, they aren't going to remove it as it does very little to buff the actual amount of healing done.

 

Also it's not that Commandos and Mercenaries aren't good at healing in PVP, it's that there are too many bads playing them, proper Heat management makes them much easier to play.

[SuperGrunt]

*Operative healers need to have their healing output more dependent on their casted abilities.

*Mercs healers need a healing boost.

*Expertise healing debuff needs to be adjusted again

*Marauder/Sniper healing debuff should not respect the global cooldown, have no damage component and be boosted to 30%

*Cross healing bonus's need to go.

*Powertechs need some burst back

*Marauders need the range of obfuscation increased and their general mitigation lowered.

*Smash marauders need their perma snare on leap removed.

*lol roll needs a cooldown.

*Deception needs to have its maul damage shifted into discharge/shock. Low slash's needs a longer cooldown.

*Hunker down needs its cooldown increased or its duration cut in half.

*Madness sorcs need more efficient force management

*Madness sins need a complete revamp.

*Debilitate should be on a 1m cooldown like every other 4 second stun.

*Snipers flashbang should be 10m

 

*That is what makes them good in their Niche of healing, that would be like saying that a Sorc should get more of their healing from Revivification rather than from Innervate.

*No that debuff is perfectly fine, it simply put makes it so that you need Expertise gear to be an effective healer in PVP.

*Then it should also be cleanse-able.

*There are no "Cross-Healing buffs, only survivability buffs which healers depend on, what you are asking for is akin to asking for a Tank to get their survivability nerfed.

*Play an Advanced Prototype Powertech and actually learn to play it, they are currently the third best DPS in the the game, and are Proc based, IE Very Bursty.

*No they don't they are a Melee Class, would you also like to get Sorcs and Snipers Range reduced?

*Smash needs an over all balance fix, I won't call it a nerf but given that they are AOE, and all the WZs in this game are AOE friendly, it really could be considered a nerf.

*It does have one, when they run out of Energy they can't do anything anymore, if they want to get away from you so bad that they waste all their Energy to get away from you, feel proud of that accomplishment.

*No it doesn't that is their bread and butter, they are the sneaky back stabby Rougesque version of Assassins, ***? Maybe you should learn to keep your Stun Breaker till you have full Resolve so that it isn't wasted when someone can Stun you again. Now Stun Breaker needing a shorter cooldown, and Resolve needing to be reworked I can agree with.

*Madness Sorc is useless, learn to play as Lightning Spec, it's better Damage overall, and doesn't drain you of Force as fast, I never even worry about the Skill Tree Force buff.

*Does nothing make you happy?

*Ok that makes sense.

*Pretty sure it is, unless there is a skill box that extends it's range.

[Capt_Beers]

Commandos are not Mandalorians, the BH is the only player Mandalrian in the game, people seriously need to stop calling Commandos Mandos, call them Comms or something.

 

That buff to Healing from Expertise, is to counter act the debuff from PVP combat to healing called Trauma, they aren't going to remove it as it does very little to buff the actual amount of healing done.

 

Also it's not that Commandos and Mercenaries aren't good at healing in PVP, it's that there are too many bads playing them, proper Heat management makes them much easier to play.

 

I agree Commandos are in a good spot but it would be very tough for a Commando to match the output of a Scoundrel of equal skill/gear.

[Capt_Beers]

*Pretty sure it is, unless there is a skill box that extends it's range.

 

Sniper shave a 30m FB Ops have a 10m FB.

[Technohic]

Sniper shave a 30m FB Ops have a 10m FB.

 

Yeah, and I use that to keep a pesky healer that is almost down, stay down while I line up an Ambush, or to flat out keep them out of the fight at a distance for a few seconds. I'm actually for insta-whirlwind to be brought back for this purpose as well. You use that to separate healers from their support and healers then are not so hard to take care of.

[SuperGrunt]

Sniper shave a 30m FB Ops have a 10m FB.

 

Just logged onto my Sniper to check that out, and you are wrong FB has a 35m range with a 5m AOE which makes it's actual effective range 40m. Considering all other classes have a 10m range on Stuns, and FB isn't a Stun, it's a Mezz as it breaks on damage, I still don't see a big problem with it. Comparing it to as Stun and saying it needs it's range reduced, is like comparing Lift/Whirlwind the same way, with the only difference being FB is instant and Lift/Whirlwind have a cast time. Although I do think that Advanced Targeting needs to have it's tooltip updated, as it states that it sets FB and Distraction to a 30m range.

[frankiejo]

*Operative healers need to have their healing output more dependent on their casted abilities.

*Mercs healers need a healing boost.

*Expertise healing debuff needs to be adjusted again

*Marauder/Sniper healing debuff should not respect the global cooldown, have no damage component and be boosted to 30%

*Cross healing bonus's need to go.

*Powertechs need some burst back

*Marauders need the range of obfuscation increased and their general mitigation lowered.

*Smash marauders need their perma snare on leap removed.

*lol roll needs a cooldown.

*Deception needs to have its maul damage shifted into discharge/shock. Low slash's needs a longer cooldown.

*Hunker down needs its cooldown increased or its duration cut in half.

*Madness sorcs need more efficient force management

*Madness sins need a complete revamp.

*Debilitate should be on a 1m cooldown like every other 4 second stun.

*Snipers flashbang should be 10m

Wrong on most accounts for various reasons, now if you specified specs on some of them they would make sense, such as increasing the cool down on debilitate for healers but not concealment/lethality, and if you even tried to lower the mitigation on carnage marauders you'd be taking one of the worse classes in the game and making them worse.

[Tragamite]

There is no challenge in stalemates due to poor game design. If a heal-off stalemate of "nothing happens" is a challenge to you, or even "fun" to you, the current state of PvP is for you. Not for me.

 

And as a Jugg, I've tanked 5 people with one Op healing me. For 10+ minutes. All DDs. Something is wrong with that, as I, nor the Op, is that good nor were we that well geared at the time.

 

Seriously? Nothing happens when you don't make it happen. If people are fight but no one is making headway is not "nothing's happening" you just are not making things happen. Unless they have 8 healers on their team so all of them free cast it is not a healer problem its a teamwork issue.

[JackNader]

Wrong, no. Right on all counts bro.

 

Trying to argue that marauders are "squishy" is pretty amusing tho. They are close to the top of the list in survivability to damage ratio. There is only 1 spec that out does it and it's a jug spec. Bad marauders who can't push their defensive cool down buttons at the appropriate time are squishy.

Edited July 10, 2013 by JackNader

[Tragamite]

Yeah, and I use that to keep a pesky healer that is almost down, stay down while I line up an Ambush, or to flat out keep them out of the fight at a distance for a few seconds. I'm actually for insta-whirlwind to be brought back for this purpose as well. You use that to separate healers from their support and healers then are not so hard to take care of.

 

 

^This... Taking a healer out of the fight is more important then killing him. Insta stuns helped facilitate that as long as someone didn't break it and fill the resolve bar.

 

I believe healing is fine as is except mercs/comms need either a new quick cast or slight increase in their healing to stay competitive with other healers.

 

Plenty of DPS classes can regularly hit for 5-7k. The average player has 26k health, do the math and see how long you would last without a healer. Now times that x 8 cause that is what a healer has to deal with.

 

Take away the cross heal then add the boss immunity shield that once you've been attacked only that person can kill all melee are knocked back and down and all range is reflected then healers won't need to keep other healers up as once they have been attacked they only need to worry about that 1 person trying to kill them all others would kill themselves trying.

 

So then someone drops an aoe and hit 3 targets now he is the only one who can kill those three and leaves 2 players twidling their thumbs cause they can't attack anyone without hurting themselves.

[Maelael]

Seriously? Nothing happens when you don't make it happen. If people are fight but no one is making headway is not "nothing's happening" you just are not making things happen. Unless they have 8 healers on their team so all of them free cast it is not a healer problem its a teamwork issue.

 

Seriously.

 

It's not an every warzone experience, but it's 1-4 times a day at least (Of course, I may play more warzones than the average player.) How you haven't experienced this is beyond me if you've actually done your fair share of pugs and rateds. Good healers, especially three of them, can cover easily. Puddle+Op HoT is godmode for Maras/Sents.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Maelael

[Capt_Beers]

 

Take away the cross heal then add the boss immunity shield that once you've been attacked only that person can kill all melee are knocked back and down and all range is reflected then healers won't need to keep other healers up as once they have been attacked they only need to worry about that 1 person trying to kill them all others would kill themselves trying.

 

So then someone drops an aoe and hit 3 targets now he is the only one who can kill those three and leaves 2 players twidling their thumbs cause they can't attack anyone without hurting themselves.

 

What in the world are you talking about?

[anwg]

You haven't played enough of the boredom of 3 cross healing healers at a node that neither side can take for 10+ minutes straight yet. Doesn't even take a talented healer to do it either.

 

That has more to do with the node capping mechanism in most warzones than healing.

[Maelael]

That has more to do with the node capping mechanism in most warzones than healing.

 

Eh, both. They could change node mechanics or nerf healing. Either would fix the problem. The example from the other night though, nobody got further than 2 seconds of node capping that I saw. I think I used predation more in that fight than I did all weekend.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Maelael

[Biotic_Warlock]

I'd agree that snipers are the cure to any healer, but the only problem is that operative/smuggler healers can use their dodge power to avoid all damage from an ambush.

 

The pull ability from vanguards and powertechs I've found to be most annoying.