Its time to give the F2Ps a voice on the forum

[TheBBP]

It's time to let people who will not financially support the game have a say?

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

 

Let's not even consider the types of threads we would be inundated with due to the anonymous internet crowd having free access to these forums.

Edited July 9, 2013 by TheBBP

[Heezdedjim]

BioWare's stance is obviously the correct one.

You are correct. And their "stance" is "maybe it is time for this to happen."

[SithKoriandr]

 

 

How narrow minded you all are. A shame, but at the same time it shows how elitist some folks are that play this game. In this day and age when almost every game is on a FTP model it is astounding. Before you attack me - I am well aware that this game launched on a subscription model and then revamped to follow the FTP model.

 

I started this game as a FTP player, to try the game and see if I liked it, and I liked it. I talked to some friends of mine from our EQ2 guild and then 2 weeks later myself and many from my guild in Everquest II all subscribed and came over to play. Some of us play here "full time" now and never went back to EQ2, others thought the game too restricting and went back. That is another thread for another time.

 

I went Preferred almost immediately after trying the game, within a day or two, but could not for the life of me figure out why I could not post on the forums. I even called customer support and got the run around several times by a foreign representative that could hardly speak my language (English, American). It took a few tries before I was finally told that FTP/Preferred could not post on the forums. I had spent well over $100 on cc at that point on unlocks, and quite frankly felt that this company could care less that I was investing my money into the game.

 

I eventually decided to subscribe not long after because I was having fun and enjoying the game. Several of my friends and guild mates from EQ2 have done the same. We all think it is silly though that FTP can not post on the forums. In other games, EQ2 for example, it does not matter what your subscription level is, you can post on the official forums. It seems stupid to me and our friends that there is so much restriction here, especially on the game forums. Preferred accounts do spend money so why should they not have a voice in the game that they are investing money into?

 

The reasons given by the staff and other subscribers such as myself do not make a whole lot of sense honestly in the long run. I still subscribe and I am still having fun. When the fun ceases to be then I will go back to my Preferred status.. but that in no way makes me any less of a SWTOR player or fan than a current subscriber.

 

 

 

Go check out the TERA Forum, where anyone can post. That is what happens to forums when anyone can post.

 

While I'm sure there's some people who pay the sub cost just to bash the game (some people are weird like that) I'd wager most on this forum are not that player.

 

Will some of us hate the direction the devs are going? Well duh Will the shouts against get seen more on the forums than the praises? Yeah, that's pretty standard.

 

But one thing holds true. If you sub, there's something about the game you do enjoy that is worth enough for you at the time to sub. Now what that is will vary sub to sub and it could be something as trivial as the player going "I love this one character" to something even more all encompassing. Or even just hope for a better game.

 

But F2P posters will draw in the worst posters ever. Ever get on youtube? See those comments? Yeah. That's generally F2P Forums especially on the bigger name games.

[theUndead]

Why not just create a single area in the forum where F2P and Subs players can post? Leave the current forums for Subs but have a new one that both F2P and Subs can create threads and post replies to.

 

That way, if there is just spam then Subs won't have to deal with it and F2P players just have to deal with it.

 

Again that would be very diffculd to moderate and it seems based on Eric's reply that yet simply do not have the manpower to do all that moderation.

[SithKoriandr]

You and I have now officially agreed twice in one day.

 

I won't let it go to my head.

[ToMyMa]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums? This is a question we also discussed internally during the transition. The problem isn't so much in the subscriber or free player's value in using the forums, but in the accessibility.

 

If a F2P player can just sign up for an account and begin posting, then anyone in theory could post on the forums fairly easily. The problem this creates is one of moderation. It would be very easy for someone to make an account and begin spamming the forums. If we ban that account, they just make another one immediately.

 

In theory allowing F2P players to post would even allow subscribing forum users who have been banned to create new accounts and continue to break forum rules without any real worry of consequences. We have definitely considered just opening a F2P forum, but it would be a little wild west in there and is unlikely something we would do. Again, that is due to moderation challenges.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

 

Do you mean a little Wild West as in the server forums?

[idnewton]

If the player read his Quest Log, it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

Finished starting planet > follow quest to talk to X once you enter the station > he tell you to make a choice and go see Y trainer.

 

It is really not that hard.

 

As for giving them a voice, maybe a sub-forum would do, but there is already enough crap springing up here from subs, rather than allowing F2P in as well.

 

That takes time, and is pointless. They have other ways of asking questions. Additionally, any subforum which is infested with spammers and bots looks bad on a company. I agree with their decision.

Edited July 9, 2013 by idnewton

[dscount]

No TICKY No LAUNDRY.

 

Pay the SUB price and post all you want. Then post that you are upset you couldn't post in the first place w/o being a SUB.

[Lunafox]

It's time to give F2P's a voice on the forum?

 

Uh, no.

 

The forums will be filled with all sorts of idiotic..er scratch that...MORE idiotic crap than we already have.

 

If they must have a means to communicate, give them a newbie section and restrict them to it, so that the rest of us don't have to put up with them here.

 

Thanks.

[Fluffyburrito]

Since level 10 seems to be the, "I have questions" period, why not let that be the cap?

 

Cuts out on spammers quite a bit since it takes at least 2 hours+change to get there.

[MeisterBabylon]

Give them F2Pers the Support forums, or create an off-topic F2P subforum, and lock them out of everything else. Have it so that >90 day old threads in there are automatically deleted so that the resulting clutter from any spam (or spambots) don't overwhelm the servers.

 

Problem solved.

Edited July 9, 2013 by MeisterBabylon

[prasys]

I think those who pay get the rights , probably the least they could open up is other sections , much like how Blizzard does it

[Laurreth]

If a F2P player can just sign up for an account and begin posting, then anyone in theory could post on the forums fairly easily. The problem this creates is one of moderation. It would be very easy for someone to make an account and begin spamming the forums. If we ban that account, they just make another one immediately.

 

That could theoretically be solved through a basic proof of work, like requiring a Chapter 2 character.

 

And while you are busy creating a tighter game/forum integration, how about character pictures as avatars?

[idnewton]

That could theoretically be solved through a basic proof of work, like requiring a Chapter 2 character.

 

And while you are busy creating a tighter game/forum integration, how about character pictures as avatars?

 

They aren't making it tighter, they are (for good reason) refusing to make it looser.

 

 

The fact is that all of the suggestions in here to come to a comprimise of some sort, to allow Free to Play players to access the forums just as subscribers do. But I'm telling you, right here, and right now, it will not happen. Making a chapter requirement seems like a solid solution, and it would rid the game of nearly all already-banned players creating new accounts, and bots. However, most players would need initial help on how to do things. By the time they're at chapter 3, they already know what they need to know. While I dislike generalization, especially of Free to Play players, a lot of them complain about the restrictions. This would magnify greatly if they would be allowed on the forums.

 

There also could not be a subforum for Free to Play accounts, for the reason I previously mentioned. Bots and banned accounts would congregate there, causing chaos. It would be contained, but nothing productive would come of it. It would simply look bad on the company.

 

This may seem rather strange, but bear with me. Imagine you have three lights. Red, green, and blue. The red light and the green light are side by side, but the blue is a little ways away. I will attempt to use smilyfaces to demonstrate:

- - - - - -

Ignore the dashes, they were necessary. Imagine each of these three lights gives off a small glow of that color, and you have a perfect detection machine which can sense how much of each color is present at the given location. Red represents banned players, bots, spammers, and the like. Green represents Free to Play players. Blue represents the forums. The blue light does not move, but the red light moves whereever the green one does. You want the Free to Play players, the green light, to overlap as much with the blue light (the forums) as possible. However, no red light can touch the forums. As these are lights and not, say, circles, the closer to the source, the brighter the color. In order to insure no red light (banned players, bots, spammers) touch the blue light (the forums), only the dimmest green light (Free to Play players) and dimmest blue light (forums) can touch. What I mean to demonstrate with this is that yes, a system could be implimented to allow Free to Play players to access the forums. However, it would be so ineffective, it wouldn't even be worth the time. For example, allowing a small portion of Free to Play players who have achieved a certain point in the game to post in one small subforum.

 

Hopefully this strange demonstration has opened some eyes.

[Gishank]

Neither F2P or Preferred status players have the ability to post on the forums which I think is a tad ridiculous. They really should be able to, this is standard on many F2P games. It's quite possible that a F2P player would come along download the game (as a friend of mind has done) and find that it doesn't work. They're then forced to give up because they cannot come to the forums and attempt to get help, alternatively they could contact support via their phone number but most would opt not to as to my knowledge it is not a freephone number. The point I am trying to make here is that these people who are denied the simple ability to partake in the SWTOR community would be more likely to become paid customers if they could do so. For example, my friend if he got the game to run could thoroughly enjoy the game and end up paying.

 

 

 

Yes, you could argue that there would be people coming and endlessly spamming the forum however in turn this can be mitigated by using features that already exist in vBulletin and that can be added through plugins. Such as, CAPTCHA, banning by IP, limit e-mails to be unique per account, services such as Spamhaus, etc. If smaller companies and individuals can manage this minor workload to set up I'm sure EA can.

[Tachenko_Yuri]

 

No seriously, why should F2P have a voice as loud has those that commit to the game with their money?

 

this

[Tsillah]

That could theoretically be solved through a basic proof of work, like requiring a Chapter 2 character.

 

And while you are busy creating a tighter game/forum integration, how about character pictures as avatars?

 

That wouldn't work really. The real problem aside from just random spammers are the gold sellers. Imagine getting pms constantly from gold sellers on the forum here.

 

Gold sellers level toons to farm, so your basic proof of work doesn't help against gold sellers. I'm sure this is also one of the main reasons why f2p accounts have limited trading capacity in game. If you were to open the doors freely, you're basically opening the floodgate for gold sellers. I am not a fan of that idea.

[Maggiopt]

Access to Customer Service forum is crucial for F2P.

It would take maybe a full time job from BW of deleting spam and offtopic, but it would ease some of the barrier that every F2P faces, and probably result in more subs.

Maybe restricted to Preferred Status.

 

Probably could be even optimized if every F2P post was internally flagged and easier to screen for Mods, in a priority system for post review.

 

 

Anything else, I don't see the point.

 

Had a subscription renewal problem, and not being able to post on the customer support forum was a serious handicap.

There should be another way, besides the cruel and agonizingly useless phone support, to post a problem, and try to get help from the community.

[Elminster_cs]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums? This is a question we also discussed internally during the transition. The problem isn't so much in the subscriber or free player's value in using the forums, but in the accessibility.

 

If a F2P player can just sign up for an account and begin posting, then anyone in theory could post on the forums fairly easily. The problem this creates is one of moderation. It would be very easy for someone to make an account and begin spamming the forums. If we ban that account, they just make another one immediately.

 

In theory allowing F2P players to post would even allow subscribing forum users who have been banned to create new accounts and continue to break forum rules without any real worry of consequences. We have definitely considered just opening a F2P forum, but it would be a little wild west in there and is unlikely something we would do. Again, that is due to moderation challenges.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

 

He is totally right. This forum, like other, is a mess can you think on how it will become if you allow F2P?

 

Maybe you can allow Preferred, this can be nice, but F2P never.

[AlaricSevGirl]

I have a guild member that had no idea of custom armor or what to do with planetary comms. I'll be teaching him today what to do and bought him a full set of custom armor. He's 16 and F2P since his parents caved to let him play. I have people who came from WOW. It is not self explanatory as to what do do especially with our younger members and newbies.

[AlaricSevGirl]

He is totally right. This forum, like other, is a mess can you think on how it will become if you allow F2P?

 

Maybe you can allow Preferred, this can be nice, but F2P never.

 

That is like saying that all F2P players are asses and they are not and if they had moderators that were worth a damn, then they would not have a problem moderating forums. Honestly, they are just trying to get more people to subscriber and that just isn't going to happen if people can't afford to.

Edited July 9, 2013 by AlaricSevGirl

[Kesphin]

I guess they don't wanna hear legit subscribers complaint against Cm and drown it into F2P slump.

 

From my POV, prefered can have access to the forum but F2p never, just because of false accounts. Subscribers are about to disapear anyway, so if we want life on this forum, it's the only way.

 

(why would someone subscribe when he can unlock everything with credits? I've got wz and raid passes for one year and didn't use one CC. The only limitation you have when you unlock everything is credits and forum discussions. I won't pay 15$/month just for that.)

Edited July 9, 2013 by Kesphin

[Alavastre]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums? This is a question we also discussed internally during the transition. The problem isn't so much in the subscriber or free player's value in using the forums, but in the accessibility.

 

If a F2P player can just sign up for an account and begin posting, then anyone in theory could post on the forums fairly easily. The problem this creates is one of moderation. It would be very easy for someone to make an account and begin spamming the forums. If we ban that account, they just make another one immediately.

 

In theory allowing F2P players to post would even allow subscribing forum users who have been banned to create new accounts and continue to break forum rules without any real worry of consequences. We have definitely considered just opening a F2P forum, but it would be a little wild west in there and is unlikely something we would do. Again, that is due to moderation challenges.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

 

Are we talking just F2P players? Or can preffered players access the forum? I'm not sure. But I'll continue as if preffered cannot.

 

There are a few solutions. Make a F2P forum, and don't let them migrate to the other forums. Or just allow preffered players to post on the forum, and or make them their own forum just so they are represented.

 

If banned people do show up, at least they dropped 5 bucks again to be a thorn in your side for a few minutes. I think BW wins that battle.

[Skodan]

He answered that in his reply.

 

i know. It worked fine in lotro, and it allows new players to have a place to learn while also allowing free players a place to post if they have problems (and more than likely they are new players too).

 

and the wild west part ... come on,

[Bomyne]

I think the new player forum should be opened up to the free to play crowd. I mean, it's what the forum is designed for. Those that have questions about the game stemming from their newbishness.