Its time to give the F2Ps a voice on the forum

[AidanLightwalker]

you know... In most other mmo forums.. The forum members actually assemble and maintain "new player" help threads. New players use them as tutorials and assist guides to come up to speed on the game. There is no need to post in the forum because the subscriber forum membership provides for the need.

 

We don't see that much at all here in these forums, do we? What does that tell you about the swtor forums and the subscribers?

 

These forums are 90% a combination of opinion_central and cheeze_complaint_central.

 

As eric has noted.. They have looked at it and see opening the forum up to free players as a moderation overload. I honestly do not see a problem with their assessment and decision.

 

Now... If you want to see new players helped by the forum.. Walk the talk folks... Make and maintain threads that help new players be more effective at the game. It's a classic public service that mmo players used to do for fellow mmo players... Before the dark days of whine and complain and entitlement me me me.

 

qft!, qfe!!!!

[zzoorrzz]

I've played world of tanks. They have 40 million accounts. Feel free to go check their forums, it's hardly a wild west or moderation challenge. My local language section which happens to be one of the biggest European communities in the game has just 2 moderators (recruited from the players, unpaid). And you don't have to spend any money to post there without limits.

 

I think there were some good ideas how to easily keep F2P posting under control on this site. So the reason why they shouldn't post simply doesn't exist.

Edited July 8, 2013 by zzoorrzz

[Andryah]

Now... in reviewing the New Player Help forum here... it's sad.

 

If you folks really want to help the free players... create and maintain some meaningful help threads in the New Player Help subforum. Because right now.. all it really is...is a Q&A sub-forum.

 

I bet Eric and Staff would be happy to /sticky good help threads so they stay on top of the transient Q&A threads.

 

I don't know if it's complex enough a need to warrant it.. but maybe even create some topic specific sub-forums to manage categories.. like Starter Planets, Fleet, PvE, PvP, Equipement, etc. etc.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Andryah

[Elrood]

BioWare's stance is obviously the correct one.

 

Any additional forum moderation, anti-spam tech, etc, will cost the company money, manpower, and time. F2P players do not contribute, or contribute an insignificant amount comparatively, to BioWare's bottom line. So why again should BioWare spend a dime on them?

 

This game didn't go F2P because the company thought it would be great if everyone has the chance to play their phenomenally expensive game to build and maintain, for free. They did it to draw in as many people as possible in the hopes that they would enjoy the game and end up subbing.

 

If they want the opportunity to have their voices heard, they must pay for the privilege. This is business, and business is driven solely by money, rightfully so. If you're not a paying customer, no company or business is going to care what you have to say, especially when it's paying customers offer more than enough feedback.

[Sindorin]

A uniquely capitalist point of view. This is akin to saying "why should people have as much influence in how our government is run, they don't pay as much into it as I do?"

 

See the phalacy?

 

Totally different, since playing a game has no impact on your quality of life, or services essential to such. Try again.

[Elrood]

And no F2P player is going to offer up some enlightening insight to BioWare about the game that hasn't been brought up already by the subscribers. So what's the point? So they can get free tech support and service for their free game?

[Obirayy]

I will spam the **** out of these forums with f2p account, guaranteed!

 

At least I'm nice enough to give you a heads up

[Axe_Faktor]

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but why not just make forum access purchasable via the MySWTOR page for F2P players. Charge 5 or 10 bucks, whatever for unlimited forum use.

 

OR

 

Create a subscription plan that is mid-way between preferred and full subscription which includes things like forums, customer service support, and the most basic in game amenities like QT, emergency fleet pass and Medical probes, but still limits access to ops/wz/fp/space and all the other perks of being a full-sub. $5/month

[Icestar]

I like that this is a P2P (pay to post) game

 

Imagine all the chaos if anyone could create limitless posting accounts, nah......no thankyou

[Nmyownworld]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums?

-eric

 

I think what's missing is not F2Pers being able to post to the forum. I think what's missing is why F2Pers would need (not want, need) to post to the forums.

Allowing F2P to post in the forums is NOT the solution.

 

Improving the in game starter player tutorial, especially at the Advanced Class transition point, IS the solution.

^^This.

 

I am thinking about F2Pers who have questions, and cannot post them on the forums. I don't think setting up a special F2P forum is the answer. I think the game needs a comprehensive, and comprehensible, tutorial. Something written for folks who are new to SWTOR, and new to mmorpgs in general, because I think the Star Wars name attracted people to try playing a mmorpg for the first time.

 

We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

It's not "a little tricky." It's difficult. "Yeah, someone, somewhere, will answer people's questions ... probably," is weak. I think an official tutorial that establishes the basics is what is most needed.

 

There are numerous fan web sites, but there isn't an A - Z beginner tutorial for SWTOR. Often, the information on fan web sites is written by experienced players, using MMO terminology, and assumptions of prior mmorpg experience. "It's just like XYZ in WoW," "It's similar to XYZ in (another mmorpg)." Not helpful to mmorpg newbies.

 

Most importantly, it isn't the fan sites responsibility to be certain to provide a tutorial to SW:TOR.

 

The tutorial doesn't have to be in game. It can be a PDF, a series of web pages, or whatever. Right now, the in-game help section is not particularly helpful. I think a tutorial that will take a player from level 1 through 20, or so (once they get the starship) is needed moreso than F2P access to the post on the forums.

 

Not strategy, or debates about class abilities -- just basic information. Like, something about the where, and how, to get an Advanced Class, for cryin' out loud.

 

Someone can't know to ask questions about something that they aren't aware exists. Sometimes, the first someone learns about something needing to be done in game is when someone else is being mocked in the forums for doing (or not doing) something they were not aware of in the first place.

 

I think this game has depended on fans to provide instruction on how to play this game. I think there are players who regularly step up to help other players, regardless of whether or not the other players are subscribers. I think it is past time for EA/BW, SW:TOR to step up and get a comprehensive tutorial out.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Nmyownworld

[Deathen_Shada]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums? This is a question we also discussed internally during the transition. The problem isn't so much in the subscriber or free player's value in using the forums, but in the accessibility.

 

If a F2P player can just sign up for an account and begin posting, then anyone in theory could post on the forums fairly easily. The problem this creates is one of moderation. It would be very easy for someone to make an account and begin spamming the forums. If we ban that account, they just make another one immediately.

 

In theory allowing F2P players to post would even allow subscribing forum users who have been banned to create new accounts and continue to break forum rules without any real worry of consequences. We have definitely considered just opening a F2P forum, but it would be a little wild west in there and is unlikely something we would do. Again, that is due to moderation challenges.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

 

When your team designed free to play you can up with the idea of giving some, but not everything. For example you can do war zones but a limited amount. I would suggest a similar approach to the forum situation.

 

For example: F2P can only post in particular forums, F2P are limited to the amount of posts the can create. In essence allow them enough privileges to ask for help or the occasionally voice their opinion on something. Other then that they need to sub if they want full access.

 

That's my what I would do, Cheers.

[Vaerah]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums? This is a question we also discussed internally during the transition. The problem isn't so much in the subscriber or free player's value in using the forums, but in the accessibility.

 

If a F2P player can just sign up for an account and begin posting, then anyone in theory could post on the forums fairly easily. The problem this creates is one of moderation. It would be very easy for someone to make an account and begin spamming the forums. If we ban that account, they just make another one immediately.

 

In theory allowing F2P players to post would even allow subscribing forum users who have been banned to create new accounts and continue to break forum rules without any real worry of consequences. We have definitely considered just opening a F2P forum, but it would be a little wild west in there and is unlikely something we would do. Again, that is due to moderation challenges.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

 

What about you only accept level 55 or account older than 30 days F2P players? That would quite deal with the "create alt, start spam" issue.

[Talonwk]

 

Hopefully that makes sense. We realize it can be a little tricky for F2P players to get questions answered, but they still have the ability to do so in-game, on social media, and on our fan sites pages.

 

-eric

 

This. You just answered your question. This is already a happy medium approach and there is nothing wrong with the way it is. It isn't broken so don't "fix" it. There are plenty of other fan sites with forums that are active for them to express their opinions. It is another incentive to subscribe if it is that important to them.

 

The only other option I see as viable is to allow preferred players (technically F2P) who have made a purchase to post. This may already be the case (I have always been a sub so I don't know) but at least spammers would have to pay $5 every time they post lol.

[Grayseven]

If you restrict F2P posts to the forums to level 55 toons, you prevent new F2Per's from asking questions while those questions are pertinent. By 55, they've probably got it figured out...

 

F2P posting on forums is just a bad idea. Sorry, but most F2P players aren't invested enough in the game and they would have no problem turning this into an cesspool of spam for their amusement.

 

If you have questions as F2P you can still use forum search to find the answer since by now most questions have been asked. Or use Twitter or Facebook if you can't seem to find it. Or try your luck in General Chat in game. Otherwise there are plenty of guides available with a quick Google search.

[Solar_Breeze]

Why not just sell a communication pack in the cartel market that allows that account to post on the forums and raise tickets / talk to CS?

[idnewton]

And no F2P player is going to offer up some enlightening insight to BioWare about the game that hasn't been brought up already by the subscribers. So what's the point? So they can get free tech support and service for their free game?

 

Also agreed.

[Anosa]

free players should not have a loud voice. people who pay to play deserve that voice.

[SithKoriandr]

No. Just no. That's always a bad idea.

 

At the very least, if made an option, limit it to a specific F2P Thread.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you think the forums are bad now? Opening it to the F2Pers will just make it worse.

 

This isn't to say all F2P are dark despair of game forums, but you'll see many show up who are! Some won't even play the game. They'll just go "Oh! I can access the forums!" and then...gaaaah.

 

Bad idea.

[Jerqa]

How narrow minded you all are. A shame, but at the same time it shows how elitist some folks are that play this game. In this day and age when almost every game is on a FTP model it is astounding. Before you attack me - I am well aware that this game launched on a subscription model and then revamped to follow the FTP model.

 

I started this game as a FTP player, to try the game and see if I liked it, and I liked it. I talked to some friends of mine from our EQ2 guild and then 2 weeks later myself and many from my guild in Everquest II all subscribed and came over to play. Some of us play here "full time" now and never went back to EQ2, others thought the game too restricting and went back. That is another thread for another time.

 

I went Preferred almost immediately after trying the game, within a day or two, but could not for the life of me figure out why I could not post on the forums. I even called customer support and got the run around several times by a foreign representative that could hardly speak my language (English, American). It took a few tries before I was finally told that FTP/Preferred could not post on the forums. I had spent well over $100 on cc at that point on unlocks, and quite frankly felt that this company could care less that I was investing my money into the game.

 

I eventually decided to subscribe not long after because I was having fun and enjoying the game. Several of my friends and guild mates from EQ2 have done the same. We all think it is silly though that FTP can not post on the forums. In other games, EQ2 for example, it does not matter what your subscription level is, you can post on the official forums. It seems stupid to me and our friends that there is so much restriction here, especially on the game forums. Preferred accounts do spend money so why should they not have a voice in the game that they are investing money into?

 

The reasons given by the staff and other subscribers such as myself do not make a whole lot of sense honestly in the long run. I still subscribe and I am still having fun. When the fun ceases to be then I will go back to my Preferred status.. but that in no way makes me any less of a SWTOR player or fan than a current subscriber.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Jerqa

[idnewton]

How narrow minded you all are. A shame, but at the same time it shows how elitist some folks are that play this game. In this day and age when almost every game is on a FTP model it is astounding. Before you attack me - I am well aware that this game launched on a subscription model and then revamped to follow the FTP model.

 

I started this game as a FTP player, to try the game and see if I liked it, and I liked it. I talked to some friends of mine from our EQ2 guild and then 2 weeks later myself and many from my guild in Everquest II all subscribed and came over to play. Some of us play here "full time" now and never went back to EQ2, others thought the game too restricting and went back. That is another thread for another time.

 

I went Preferred almost immediately after trying the game, within a day or two, but could not for the life of me figure out why I could not post on the forums. I even called customer support and got the run around several times by a foreign representative that could hardly speak my language (English, American). It took a few tries before I was finally told that FTP/Preferred could not post on the forums. I had spent well over $100 on cc at that point on unlocks, and quite frankly felt that this company could care less that I was investing my money into the game.

 

I eventually decided to subscribe not long after because I was having fun and enjoying the game. Several of my friends and guild mates from EQ2 have done the same. We all think it is silly though that FTP can not post on the forums. In other games, EQ2 for example, it does not matter what your subscription level is, you can post on the official forums. It seems stupid to me and our friends that there is so much restriction here, especially on the game forums. Preferred accounts do spend money so why should they not have a voice in the game that they are investing money into?

 

The reasons given by the staff and other subscribers such as myself do not make a whole lot of sense honestly in the long run. I still subscribe and I am still having fun. When the fun ceases to be then I will go back to my Preferred status.. but that in no way makes me any less of a SWTOR player or fan than a current subscriber.

 

Read the dev post.

[Grayseven]

How narrow minded you all are. A shame, but at the same time it shows how elitist some folks are that play this game. In this day and age when almost every game is on a FTP model it is astounding. Before you attack me - I am well aware that this game launched on a subscription model and then revamped to follow the FTP model.

 

I started this game as a FTP player, to try the game and see if I liked it, and I liked it. I talked to some friends of mine from our EQ2 guild and then 2 weeks later myself and many from my guild in Everquest II all subscribed and came over to play. Some of us play here "full time" now and never went back to EQ2, others thought the game too restricting and went back. That is another thread for another time.

 

I went Preferred almost immediately after trying the game, within a day or two, but could not for the life of me figure out why I could not post on the forums. I even called customer support and got the run around several times by a foreign representative that could hardly speak my language (English, American). It took a few tries before I was finally told that FTP/Preferred could not post on the forums. I had spent well over $100 on cc at that point on unlocks, and quite frankly felt that this company could care less that I was investing my money into the game.

 

I eventually decided to subscribe not long after because I was having fun and enjoying the game. Several of my friends and guild mates from EQ2 have done the same. We all think it is silly though that FTP can not post on the forums. In other games, EQ2 for example, it does not matter what your subscription level is, you can post on the official forums. It seems stupid to me and our friends that there is so much restriction here, especially on the game forums. Preferred accounts do spend money so why should they not have a voice in the game that they are investing money into?

 

The reasons given by the staff and other subscribers such as myself do not make a whole lot of sense honestly in the long run. I still subscribe and I am still having fun. When the fun ceases to be then I will go back to my Preferred status.. but that in no way makes me any less of a SWTOR player or fan than a current subscriber.

 

How is it narrow minded to know EXACTLY how bad things on these forums would be if people could spam them repeatedly, get banned and start a whole new F2P account in order to keep spamming?

 

This isn't about F2P players themselves, it is about the ease in which people could abuse the forums using the F2P system.

[Andryah]

No. Just no. That's always a bad idea.

 

At the very least, if made an option, limit it to a specific F2P Thread.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you think the forums are bad now? Opening it to the F2Pers will just make it worse.

 

This isn't to say all F2P are dark despair of game forums, but you'll see many show up who are! Some won't even play the game. They'll just go "Oh! I can access the forums!" and then...gaaaah.

 

Bad idea.

 

You and I have now officially agreed twice in one day.

[Planar]

Should we allow Free-to-Play users on the forums? This is a question we also discussed internally during the transition. The problem isn't so much in the subscriber or free player's value in using the forums, but in the accessibility.

 

 

Make them their own section to post in for help edtc

[bloodysheath]

Why not just create a single area in the forum where F2P and Subs players can post? Leave the current forums for Subs but have a new one that both F2P and Subs can create threads and post replies to.

 

That way, if there is just spam then Subs won't have to deal with it and F2P players just have to deal with it.

[Mjollnir]

With so many players joining the game, over the weekend I came across a poor level 17 soul who was still his original class and had no idea that he needed to visit the fleet to select his advance class.

 

He couldnt post on the forum because he was free to play. And once I rolled another toon, its not very clear where to go when you leave your starting planet. During the game, if you need to complete a quest or speak to someone, they all have a GREEN flash triangle instead of an empty yellow - which they have on the fleet. This needs to be changed.

 

Finally and importantly, without the free to play people, this game probably would have been over. So, they need to see for themselves that signing up to a sub or purchasing some things from the Cartel Market can help them on their journey and remain a customer.

 

We need to encourage more folk to sign up, so I believe that we need a free to play forum for those wanting to post questions and ask for help and of course look for a guild. Common Community Team, dont miss out on this opportunity to grow your subs base with a simple, small adjustment.

 

If the player read his Quest Log, it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

Finished starting planet > follow quest to talk to X once you enter the station > he tell you to make a choice and go see Y trainer.

 

It is really not that hard.

 

As for giving them a voice, maybe a sub-forum would do, but there is already enough crap springing up here from subs, rather than allowing F2P in as well.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mjollnir