Let's retire the Ninja cap

[mattycutts]

My friend and I hit their node everytime, and cap it. So... 15% is more like 80%.

 

you make a good point but you said you and ya friend, base this one 1 person, and this i believe is more in regards of the typical stealther you see in pugs, some are amazing but some are equally amazing in worse sence.

 

Ive seen stealthers that totally disregard tatics during matches and choose to ignore chat and so match will be lost more often than not.

 

And my personal favouratte while only happened again other day,

 

Nover coast, we held two bases, we shoulded inc and the two stealthers went off for 3rd base every time never once came to help defend so in turn made it we had only 6 in team, and each time they went off for the 3rd base they didnt suceed once.

Edited July 8, 2013 by mattycutts

[Atramar]

 

And my personal favouratte while only happened again other day,

 

Nover coast, we held two bases, we shoulded inc and the two stealthers went off for 3rd base every time never once came to help defend so in turn made it we had only 6 in team, and each time they went off for the 3rd base they didnt suceed once.

 

that is acctually valid tactic when enemy is swarming your node, ofcourse rule of thumb is to do it only if:

1.you are close to the node

2.you have atleast 2 healers and one tank defending your node

3.you are in fact good dps and can kill/cap fast.

 

this provides enemy team in chaos. if done right, you will end up with 3 nodes, people dying on your prim node are going to try to recap their old node instaed of going mid.

ofcourse if points are valid, you don't need to do it to win, and is risky.

 

chaos in enemy lines when this plan succeded is priceless. altough I would rarely try it in full pug...

[mattycutts]

that is acctually valid tactic when enemy is swarming your node, ofcourse rule of thumb is to do it only if:

1.you are close to the node

2.you have atleast 2 healers and one tank defending your node

3.you are in fact good dps and can kill/cap fast.

 

this provides enemy team in chaos. if done right, you will end up with 3 nodes, people dying on your prim node are going to try to recap their old node instaed of going mid.

ofcourse if points are valid, you don't need to do it to win, and is risky.

 

chaos in enemy lines when this plan succeded is priceless. altough I would rarely try it in full pug...

 

Yeah i agree with you completely, but these muppits and theres many of them on our server never managed to take the 3rd base, and they would try all time even when we had no inc's, lol

 

so when the pushed heavy they had 7, we could only throw 3-4 back at them (2 defending east, 2 stealths where ever they wanted, and then 3-4 at south, eventually statistics they will get that 2nd base, even worse when its hypergates it gives them points also lol

[Atramar]

Yeah i agree with you completely, but these muppits and theres many of them on our server never managed to take the 3rd base, and they would try all time even when we had no inc's, lol

 

so when the pushed heavy they had 7, we could only throw 3-4 back at them (2 defending east, 2 stealths where ever they wanted, and then 3-4 at south, eventually statistics they will get that 2nd base, even worse when its hypergates it gives them points also lol

 

haha so true. so many times I was followed by an UNSTEALTHED assassin TANK on a my way to do some stealth havoc..

or stealther who on novare coast (there is 2 of us) goes and SAPS target , then starts hitting him.. sure, why not just fill his resolve and then throw few stuns just for fun... once ok, you can press wrong button, but 3 times in a row? I mean... really?

[Princz]

This thread is lame and offensive to all stealthers...

 

If you cap you are a hero ....If you fail to cap you are just a bad that nerfed your team....

 

what a pile of c r a p .....

 

I have stealthed cap and failed to cap so many times ... If i am failing to cap in 1 vs 1 then yes probably its worse than failing cap against 2 guards .... still attempting to cap makes sure that the enemy team will have more defenders... In any case that is no nerf if you are losing middle to equal numbers.

 

Dont dictate to others how to have fun in pug games.

[HBMalachorfive]

haha so true. so many times I was followed by an UNSTEALTHED assassin TANK on a my way to do some stealth havoc..

or stealther who on novare coast (there is 2 of us) goes and SAPS target , then starts hitting him.. sure, why not just fill his resolve and then throw few stuns just for fun... once ok, you can press wrong button, but 3 times in a row? I mean... really?

 

I think my favourite moment was when I was guarding the node in AH on my sin and I get sapped by another sin who then popped out of stealth to cast whirlwind on me? Hmm spot the problem much haha

[wildcoast]

Or I should say the Ninja Cap ATTEMPTS.

 

Every single match the stealth player runs off on their own to the natural enemy node. And every time the 2 defenders kill them or they stand off to the side doing nothing, waiting for one of the defenders to leave or make a mistake.

Meanwhile we would love to have a extra man fighting at mid.

 

By your own account, if that 1 player has forced the other team to have 2 players defending, you already have an extra man advantage at mid...

Edited July 8, 2013 by wildcoast

[Taduc]

Like anything it takes a little common sense... I just came back after a few months off and was shaking the dust off my Shadow. basically I ran over and capped our node first thing when the round started... then ran to mid we were being held just outside of mid so I tried to sneak to the back and take out their healer. Got smacked down pretty hard but I had counted and I saw 8 reds center so when I spawned quickly stealthed to the enemy side waited till around 10 seconds left and capped it...

 

now we went from losing (they had been getting orbs) to winning...

 

Second round same thing I capped our node went to mid and they were still controlling it... I went over to their side waited till less then a minute and burst down their one defender and capped..

 

it can work but one thing is its really dumb to do it to early because they just recap and you fed them another kill... Also I notice that some people do not always get the point of defending ANY node... you do not have to kill someone to win.. stunning, hiding stunning works better because you can tie them up and hold the node against several people... never just attack unless its the only option left to keep them off the node....

[Kawiki]

The most important thing any can stealth can do is learn to count. If there is a stalemate in center and you count 7 (or more) opposing players that is time to try and take the off node. As a stealth you should be able to 1v1 any other non stealth class. If against another stealth then it is whoever gets the first shot in.

 

So your odds are:

 

100% v. non stealth

50% v. Stealth.

 

Otherwise trying to stealth cap is not usually worth it. Because if it works you are against a bad team anyway.

[Atramar]

The most important thing any can stealth can do is learn to count. If there is a stalemate in center and you count 7 (or more) opposing players that is time to try and take the off node. As a stealth you should be able to 1v1 any other non stealth class. If against another stealth then it is whoever gets the first shot in.

 

So your odds are:

 

100% v. non stealth

50% v. Stealth.

 

Otherwise trying to stealth cap is not usually worth it. Because if it works you are against a bad team anyway.

 

Had sin trying to sap cap my PT tank over 4 rounds. every time it was same story, he came, sap and cap, pew rocket in his face. he stopped, ran around, started capping again, pew pistols in his face when sap finished.

so he used whirlwind and capping again (I know, lol), pew another rocket in his face (about middle of cap, just in case of LAG I don't leave it for last second). after 16 seconds of dancing my resolve was full, cc breaker still avalible, and my team mates on their way.

 

he tried that every round... 2 times met my stealth scan and used force cloack to go back to steatlh

 

pro tip, vanguards and powertechs have shoulder cannon which work while stunned

Edited July 8, 2013 by Atramar

[DolGrenn]

As I'm sure has already been said, sap-n-caps are all situational. My personal system is:

 

-PT/Vanguard guarding the pylon? Don't try it.

 

-Sorc/Sage guarding the pylon? Don't try it.

 

-Did you just try and fail? Don't try it; either something listed here is happening, or you aren't doing it right.

 

-Sorc/Sage "guarding" the pylon, but actually farming heals on themselves? Wait until they're down on health, then kill them.

 

-More than one guarding the node? Go somewhere else, because that's 2 people that they're wasting.

 

-Undergeared guarding the node? Kill them, then cap. Don't go for a sap-n-cap, it'll waste your surprise moves.

 

-You don't see anybody? Run around for a bit around the node to make sure no stealth are there, then cautiously cap. Have your escape moves ready in case there is too much hidden opposition. (i.e., really good stealthier or more than one)

 

-Not stealth, but just tagging along to distract? I've only seen this work ONE time, and that was when the guy was 60 meters away from the node, taunting the marauder into leaping at him, and then grappling the merc to him while the stealth capped. They didn't see the stealth cap either, which was lucky. So don't try it.

 

Again, it all depends on the situation, and the player. You have to know your own track-record of successful attempts, and weigh that with various other factors such as amount of defenders, defenders' gear/skill levels, if there is another stealth with you, if they have stealth who may be guarding, if you really NEED another node, if your own node is being compromised, if the enemy is capping yours as you think, etc. At the end of the day, trial-and-error can be helpful for future endeavors, but don't ever try something new when the game is on the line. Odds are that your opponent has seen it before.

[Monterone]

-Sorc/Sage guarding the pylon? Don't try it.

 

I LOVE it when a sorc/sage is guarding... majority of the time it's a free cap. When on my sin, playing deception, if they try to type and ask for help, they'll be dead before they finish typing in regs. If they don't, it takes a few additional seconds. They force barrier, you start a cap and force them to exit. 9/10 times you'll finish the cap before any help can arrive simply because they just go down too damn fast.

 

A sorc/sage can be of MUCH better use to the team NOT solo guarding.

[sanchito]

I LOVE it when a sorc/sage is guarding... majority of the time it's a free cap. When on my sin, playing deception, if they try to type and ask for help, they'll be dead before they finish typing in regs. If they don't, it takes a few additional seconds. They force barrier, you start a cap and force them to exit. 9/10 times you'll finish the cap before any help can arrive simply because they just go down too damn fast.

 

A sorc/sage can be of MUCH better use to the team NOT solo guarding.

 

I agree with your last sentence but a healer sorc is actually quite a decent node guard, if he's not stupid you won't take him down fast, and 2 cc breaker and unrootable force speed is pretty awesome

Edited July 8, 2013 by sanchito

[Ms_Sunlight]

I agree with your last sentence but a healer sorc is actually quite a decent node guard, if he's not stupid you won't take him down fast, and 2 cc breaker and unrootable force speed is pretty awesome

 

Indeed, factor in their low-force-cost bubble plus low-force-cost AOE and they make great guards.

[venomlash]

Stealth caps work best coupled with a diversion. You have one or two people engage the node guards, and the stealther caps while the enemy is already dealing with what they believe to be the full assault. It works well if you can pull defenders a little ways away from the node.

If you want to stealth cap, go scout the node and call for someone to distract the guards while you do your thing. But you're just wasting your time if the fighting is thick enough...

[mulzii]

I agree with your last sentence but a healer sorc is actually quite a decent node guard, if he's not stupid you won't take him down fast, and 2 cc breaker and unrootable force speed is pretty awesome

 

thats where different strats come into play. As a decep sin, if i'm going for the ninja cap and theres a sorc guarding, its easier and quicker for me to kill them and cap than sap/cap. And a decep sin can drop a sorc/sage pretty quick if attacking from stealth and no one else is around.

 

Only class that can be a pain is PT, at least when sapp-ing as my sin. But there are methods t deal with them as well. you just have to know how SC works, its cooldown, and what spec they are. When i'm on my conceal op, i eat pt's, so i just would kill him and cap..

[thegreatone]

I often stealth cap, and most of the time I can do it without having to stun/mez or attack an enemy player. Very often win game after game (of hypergate especially), due to poor defensive placement. Defenders standing infront of the node or on it are a prime example. I can be stood right behind an opposing player capping and he doesn't even know. Even better is if they run to centre with 10 secs left to cap, which also happens frequently.

 

Getting one other player to attack the pylon from range will always pull away silly defenders, which is great if you are placed to cap as soon as the enemy make a move. It is making sure that your team mate does nothing to draw attention to your position. so staying as far away as possible, and not moving in a direction that will change the enemy players los.

 

Timing and communication is everything. I alway attack hypergate pylons with 10ish seconds left, and in other games as soon as possible while most of the enemy players are attacking the heavily contested node. If it's a battle I can't win I either suggest we could take it easily with one more or go help elsewhere.

 

The minute or so at the beginning of every warzone i will always say what i am going to attempt. Even when you don't know the players, using this minute before the game starts to establish a little bit of communication can bring the rest of the team out of it's shell. Stealth capping will always be just one of many tactics just like attacking East and West, and leaving centre in Novare Coast thus throwing off the opposing players.

[Jadescythe]

thats where different strats come into play. As a decep sin, if i'm going for the ninja cap and theres a sorc guarding, its easier and quicker for me to kill them and cap than sap/cap. And a decep sin can drop a sorc/sage pretty quick if attacking from stealth and no one else is around.

 

Only class that can be a pain is PT, at least when sapp-ing as my sin. But there are methods t deal with them as well. you just have to know how SC works, its cooldown, and what spec they are. When i'm on my conceal op, i eat pt's, so i just would kill him and cap..

 

It's about prolonging the cap. Let's say the sorc is terrible and you can kill him in 3 globals. That's 9 seconds, plus ten seconds of trolling you in a bubble, plus 6 seconds (minimum) to cap. So they have 24 seconds to respond to the call if the worst player ever is there and actually calls inc when you knock them down.

 

Now, if they are decent and use their stun at some point, maybe knock you back, or throw out a heal or two, you're now over 40 seconds of response time and even if it takes 10 seconds for them to call, 30 seconds is more than enough time to respond for a bad team. Not to mention, the sorc could lead you away from the node so you have to run back and/or are closer to the teammates coming to help.

 

I may die, but if I'm guarding on my sorc, you aren't taking the node before help arrives (assuming anyone on the team is smart enough to arrive).

[ShadowHvo]

Here's the thing...it's all situational.

 

Yes, I absolutely see where you're going with this thread. There are a lot of bad stealthers out there, probably more than other classes, because the stealth aspect inbreeds the "lone wolf" mentality and a lot of players feel like they're doing their "job" by playing the way you describe. On the flip side, there are some tactical advantages to playing the ninja capper that you have overlooked.

 

Many players get nervous when a stealther is around. Even if they're able to wait out being mezzed and not use their stun break, most have at least notified their team that the node is being contested. If there's a stalemate @ mid, and your opponents break off 2-3 to deal with a stealther, then the odds just shifted heavily in your team's favor. Likewise if you're already holding down 2 nodes and a stealther contests the 3rd, they are able to relieve pressure when the other team peels to send help.

 

A good stealther is aware of what his team is capable of and where he is needed most, and that's what is important. Those classes are designed for alpha strikes and control, so they're doing what they were designed to do, which is 1v1 and 2v1. Being locked up in a 6v6 firefight is not what they excel at in most cases.

 

+1

 

I damm right agree.