nDjiin Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) It was said by the developers that all classes should be within 5% of one another in terms of sustained DPS. For PT DPS, neither AP nor Pyrotech are within this 5% tolerance. In some cases being as much as 25% out from the classes that are currently at the top of the DPS 'leader boards'. In a game that requires very careful stat balancing (in order to get as close to perfect stats as possible) it is bewildering that the developers can ignore the players that they know will be going into their classes in minute detail. I would say a very large proportion of the player base takes the game very seriously indeed and the Powertech players are not exception to this rule. So when some one makes a 500+ word post on how you can avoid breaking a class, I think you should be taking notice. It is unbelievable that in this day and age (of huge development budgets) that you can get something so important, so wrong. You have stopped and entire advanced class from being taken seriously in progression raiding and in 8man rated WZ's. How many PT DPS's did you see int e recent clears of NiM TFB? I can tell you that there were NONE before the 30 second increases in the enrage timer on Death Guard's. Even now I doubt that a PT can be part of the team that clears that particular boss fight - with the majority of guilds taking snipers, marauders and mercenary's (and of course their Republic counterparts). Blindly rolling out these half cocked class changes with a out any regard to how it will affect guilds and teams that have played together since 1.0 is not something that will keep this game going when u are going up against games such as Star Wars Battlefront, TES Online, The Division, DayZ (stand alone) and a whole host of great new MMO titles due out this and next year. No one will continue to play a game that regularly shafts its player base like this. At least they shouldn't. That's the thing isn't it - people have let you get away with this sort of sloppy development and testing for too long. You have chosen to overlook the fact that many players go to great lengths to point out the class issues and in many instances you have ignored them completely. As a Powertech player (if u hadn't already guessed) I am thinking how nice it would be to actually look forward to a major match instead of dreading it. So I am offering you this advise. Get it sorted. Listen to the people in these forums that have taken the time to lay out (in detail) what can be done about various aspects of the game that are in dire need to attention. Its really not that much to expect from you. EDIT : I understand the need for the pure DPS classes (sniper / marauder) to be marginally ahead of the other classes as they lack the utility of tanking or healing - I am not referring to this difference. I am making this post because the difference between the likes of Assassin and Powertech DPS and the top DPS classes, makes them un-viable in may raiding situations, and in the case of the powertech in PvP also Edited July 5, 2013 by nDjiin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonyyx Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Here here! +1 /highfive Fix your **** BW! Just hope this doesn't turn into another "they're fine, and you suck if you think they're not good" thread lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) 11/10 Best post I've read all day. From what I 've been told: Our biggest problem is people like you and me, that refuse to quit playing this broken class. We're good at it, we know our limitations, and we know exactly how to pull off big numbers with our broken spec. That throws the aggregated meta averages off, and makes it look like we're just FINE! Example: I topped the damage and objective charts last match with 561K damage, 55K prot, 38 kills, and 16 deaths as a pyro. Some Bioware employee is going to look at that and tell the rest of you to L2P. The meta averages don't tell you is that I had my own pet healer, and I spent all of my time preventing door caps in VoidStar. I was focus fired constantly for stopping plants and killing the attackers. Without the pet healer I would have maybe 100K damage, 2 kills, and 3 medals. We can't survive without one! Our meta averages have to seriously sink before Bioware will move, and there are too many die hards like ourselves still playing the spec. - and we're good enough that the averages will keep rising. Edited July 4, 2013 by Brunner_Venda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfourcustom Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Great post man.... just know our voices will never be heard by the devs.. on the outset of the nerf i was the first guy making post likes this hell i even made this video (which i'll link below) that got a good amount of views and support but was all in vain devs don't care about this class Sniper/smasher/>everything else. I even started this thread that got A LOT of support but again all in vain. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=624756 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmuu9bnih9Y again great post. Edited July 4, 2013 by mfourcustom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxidenstore Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Thumbs up. Bioware has said in the past that will look at and at least listen to constructive posts, well, this is one of them. Take notice, BW. The competition in the MMO market is hard, so being on the top of your game is important. The time it took them to adress bubble stun is unacceptable, just to use an example, and I will not let them take so long to buff us, before I just don't care anymore. Edited July 4, 2013 by Luxidenstore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nDjiin Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Thanks for the positive feedback - I was pretty tired when I wrote this but I just felt we need to start building up the pressure again. The Assassin / Operative DPS'ers did the same thing and they took note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticDynamite Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 *Applaud* Great post devs really do need to get their **** together ASAP. Beware of those telling us it's a L2P issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElitehunterDS Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 No one will continue to play a game that regularly shafts its player base like this. At least they shouldn't. That's the thing isn't it - people have let you get away with this sort of sloppy development and testing for too long. You have chosen to overlook the fact that many players go to great lengths to point out the class issues and in many instances you have ignored them completely. This is the reason im stopping playing also, both Powertech and sin dps need to be looked at, we both know that but they just dont balance anything for 6-8 month at a time. It's sad im not going to pay a cent to them until they realize that, this game feel like warhammer online all over again, life support and money grab up until its closed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
af_raptura Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Great post. As always, I welcome a rebalance to help out us powertechs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nDjiin Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 This is the reason im stopping playing also, both Powertech and sin dps need to be looked at, we both know that but they just dont balance anything for 6-8 month at a time. It's sad im not going to pay a cent to them until they realize that, this game feel like warhammer online all over again, life support and money grab up until its closed down. Thats my point - I have no doubt that they will get around to it eventually and the PT DPS imbalance will be addressed (hopefully in the right direction but you never know...) . But how long will this take? I am not prepared to play a broken class for 1 month, let alone a further 6. Why would I continue to pay for a game that I cannot play at the level I want to? I dont PvP that much any more and dailies to not interest me. The reason I fork out $15 a month is so I can raid with my friends and guild - but we are a top progression guild and as such there is a lot of competition with in the guild for a raid spot (especially in the progression raids). So what happens when we come to choose the 4 DPS? and we see 5 people of roughly equal talent , ability and gear =- the only difference being class. We bring the players that are putting out the most DPS (assuming all other things being equal for this example). It is not a tough decision when one class is so far behind the others. So regarding the changes to the advanced class in 2.0 : My question is not why did this happen (I understand mistakes can be made), but why hasn't this been fixed already? It is an old problem that always plagues this sort of MMO but by now you would think they would be more practiced at getting it sorted. I feel like I am wasting my time making these posts - but at the same time I feel that at least someone should be making an effort to get this sorted out because as far as I can see it isn't Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyat Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 /sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullesvupper Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Great post How hard can it be to at least comment on the issue? We all know that even when(wishful thinking) they have a comment ready it will take even more time for a fix to actually come around. You'd think they'd want to keep their subscribers, but who wants to play a broken class? I've got this feeling that this will only be adressed in another digital expansion, which is likely a looong way of. We as the Powertech and Vanguard community has at least done our part in trying to get the devs attention, but it seems they simply just don't care. Examples of threads below: Powertech players it is time to stand up and be heard Could you please take a look at PTS/Vanguard dps Fixing the powertech, all aspects Pyrotech rebalancing If you care about your Vg/Pt post the 2.0 nerf (PTS thread) - Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing? They need more than 1 guy doing class balancing. If some of the Cartel Market profits would at least go back into the game, they should be able to expand. Edited July 5, 2013 by Gullesvupper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfourcustom Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Great post How hard can it be to at least comment on the issue? We all know that even when(wishful thinking) they have a comment ready it will take even more time for a fix to actually come around. You'd think they'd want to keep their subscribers, but who wants to play a broken class? I've got this feeling that this will only be adressed in another digital expansion, which is likely a looong way of. We as the Powertech and Vanguard community has at least done our part in trying to get the devs attention, but it seems they simply just don't care. Examples of threads below: Powertech players it is time to stand up and be heard Could you please take a look at PTS/Vanguard dps Fixing the powertech, all aspects Pyrotech rebalancing If you care about your Vg/Pt post the 2.0 nerf (PTS thread) - Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing? They need more than 1 guy doing class balancing. If some of the Cartel Market profits would at least go back into the game, they should be able to expand. More than one guy who favors the hell out of snipers and smashers lol bet that guy walked off the street said something to the effect of " Hey i'm a huge fan of swtor i love my sniper and smasher!!!" and one of the bw monkeys just said "hired!" lol @ this game anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Great post How hard can it be to at least comment on the issue? We all know that even when(wishful thinking) they have a comment ready it will take even more time for a fix to actually come around. You'd think they'd want to keep their subscribers, but who wants to play a broken class? I've got this feeling that this will only be adressed in another digital expansion, which is likely a looong way of. We as the Powertech and Vanguard community has at least done our part in trying to get the devs attention, but it seems they simply just don't care. Examples of threads below: Powertech players it is time to stand up and be heard Could you please take a look at PTS/Vanguard dps Fixing the powertech, all aspects Pyrotech rebalancing If you care about your Vg/Pt post the 2.0 nerf (PTS thread) - Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing? They need more than 1 guy doing class balancing. If some of the Cartel Market profits would at least go back into the game, they should be able to expand. I highly doubt BW is looking into balancing an issues or imbalances. When did they ever respond to player concerns? About a couple of days after the expansion was out I created a detailed thread of PT problems in 2.0 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=625824. I asked the devs to respond; to explain to us their vision of the class. 2 and half month later nothing. In addition to the threads up top, there was a thread in PTS pre 2.2 release. There is an additional thread in PTS currently and at least a couple in PvP. I kind of giving up on BW responding. But generally, BW methodology of dealing with class balances and in-game issues (unless purely cosmetic) is "hey, if we do not respond they might go away." And the players do... They unsub. Edited July 5, 2013 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullesvupper Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I didn't have time to find every thread concerning our situation. There was a few on the PTS pre. 2.0, in particular one very long and detailed thread, where they were testing 2.0 and actually had time to listen and correct it before release. They didn't do anything though, and the only class they commented on at that late in development was Commandos if I remember correctly. About only needing 1 stacks of the buff that increases demo round dmg. So yeah, it's not looking good. They did acknowledge Shadow tanks concerns in the PTS recently, and I feel we deserve a response as well. EDIT: I wrote a few threads on the PTS forums pre 2.0, there was actually a lot of them. Edited July 5, 2013 by Gullesvupper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nDjiin Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 The only thing keeping me subbing right now is the prospect of being able to raid with my guild. But I want to do progression raids, aiming at server, content and world firsts. Not gonna happen if my main is a broken class.So what do I do? If I had seen BW even say 'we will be looking into it Sir' then I would not mind waiting for a fix. Anyone recommend any decent MMO's? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophaet Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 /signed please BW fix this so you can gain some respect for owning your mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickensevil Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 EDIT : I understand the need for the pure DPS classes (sniper / marauder) to be marginally ahead of the other classes as they lack the utility of tanking or healing - I am not referring to this difference. I am making this post because the difference between the likes of Assassin and Powertech DPS and the top DPS classes, makes them un-viable in may raiding situations, and in the case of the powertech in PvP also Not sure why you felt the need to add this in... As this is NOT BW's policy. They do not consider there to be a so-called "hybrid-tax" as such all DPS classes are intended to be on the same level (within reason - ie 5%). In order to meet that 5% on all fights you generally would need to over-buff the melee anyway, since we get gimped by fight mechanics all the time. TFB there was only one fight that melee got hurt by and that was dread guards (NiM might have changed this a bit on some of the other fights, but melee was even MORE gimped on dread guards for certain). All the others was pretty fair game. SAV this all changed. The only "fair" fight that doesn't push melee more than ranged is Dash'rode, in which both sides equally get screwed over and MAYBE thrasher (if you don't count any melee that is forced to go up top full time). Anyway, the "hybrid-tax" came around back in the day when you had "tanky" dps or "heal-y" dps... that is, a DPS who is sorta spec'd to be able to do both heals and dps OK but not great (or off-tank while being decent dps)... aka a hybrid. If you invest all your points as a powertech into the two dps trees, you are getting little to no tanking buffs to the point where I have seen Snipers or Marauders (with their ridiculous CDs) be able to take boss hits better than we can. So sure, you make it so a tank drops and I can reasonably be healed while "tanking" as a dps (in current content with current gear... not no I have 5 tiers of gear above the current content, cause at that point ANYONE can tank) then sure... Ill buy the claim for a "hybrid-tax". Given Pyro Powertechs are the squishiest thing in PVP... I gotta say... A marauder/sniper is more of a "hybrid" than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckeyduckey Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/StigMikkelson/media/Screenshot_2013-07-02_21_44_59_246970.jpg.html We're not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxidenstore Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Lulz, I do more DPS than that on a regular basis, on all my characters. Hell, even on my Vanguard, I wouldn't consider it screenshot worthy. Grats on the fluff damage and low burst in a non ranked setting though. Seen smashers do close to 3k DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonyyx Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/StigMikkelson/media/Screenshot_2013-07-02_21_44_59_246970.jpg.html We're not terrible. Sorry, that's not proof. Nice job running around dotting stuff though. Easy to stack fluff damage when you dot 5 or more targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rylorn Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 EDIT : I understand the need for the pure DPS classes (sniper / marauder) to be marginally ahead of the other classes as they lack the utility of tanking or healing - I am not referring to this difference. I am making this post because the difference between the likes of Assassin and Powertech DPS and the top DPS classes, makes them un-viable in may raiding situations, and in the case of the powertech in PvP also I actually disagree whole-heartedly that PTs need to do less damage. We don't have more survivability than snipers or marauders, and we certainly can't heal. The notion that our dps specs have better tanking viability and need to suck because of it is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralPug Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I actually disagree whole-heartedly that PTs need to do less damage. We don't have more survivability than snipers or marauders, and we certainly can't heal. The notion that our dps specs have better tanking viability and need to suck because of it is ridiculous. Totally agree. A DPS spec, regardless where the overall advanced class falls in the trilogy (tank, dps, heals), deserves to be able to stand alone as DPS. This is necessary for the overall health of endgame PVP and PVE. Comps shouldn't be so narrow in end game. This is what we need to get across to BW as a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbzta Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Sorry, that's not proof. Nice job running around dotting stuff though. Easy to stack fluff damage when you dot 5 or more targets. http://postimg.org/image/7spdhgyhj/ this is 1350+ dps with mostly only singletarget dps, alot of dot(flamesweep if 3+ targets are available) damage too, yes but isn't smash dmg the same fluff? it's hitting harder but it's all the same...all classes that do alot of damage do alot of fluff damage... highest dps for PT i´ve seen yet was 1500+ ..which is still laughable compared to smashers Edited July 11, 2013 by Herbzta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbzta Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Totally agree. A DPS spec, regardless where the overall advanced class falls in the trilogy (tank, dps, heals), deserves to be able to stand alone as DPS. This is necessary for the overall health of endgame PVP and PVE. Comps shouldn't be so narrow in end game. This is what we need to get across to BW as a community. i totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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