tunewalker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) well this kind of sucks I have to go back to work tomorrow it would have been so much easier just to go ahead and start the battle with out even thinking about this all the things that beni was worried about bringing into it were exactly what was going to come up in the debate this truly does nothing for the next match honestly. Just makes me more impatient. Edit: beni you only have yourself to blame truly you said we could use whole navies as a "Major Naval force" so you allowed whole Navies I am assuming my ground forces are also going to get a heavy nerf bat when I reveal the truth about them because of this and I am the ONLY person with a "Major ground force" so in the end I am likely the only one to feel the effects of such a loss I am just hoping I am wrong but considering how the thought processes seem to work I am almost certain of it now. Edited October 9, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think in general people need to understand that the purpose of these changes is to better simulate the realities of space combat. In "actual" conflicts entire naval forces numbered in the thousands, not fleets, and these forces were dispatched across multiple fronts. The Kaggath, as many may have noticed, has shrunk. We are no longer dealing with vast territories here but a small collection of planets, the sizes of the militaries should therefore reflect this if we are the accurately simulate the realities of conflict. Anyway because of this fiasco the Kaggath will be postponed, hopefully if we experience no more hiccups I can have it out tommorow or at least by the end of the week. I suppose that makes sense. I'm going to PM you a question I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) I suppose that makes sense. I'm going to PM you a question I have. Beni is getting a lot of PM's then lol well I wonder just how this is going to work I was looking forward to my battle with Rayla..... now, now I am not sure how much fun its going to be I was counting on a huge war of attrition it seems now the battle will be over in a very short time. Edit: its funny here I thought I would be doing something like this taking off the cuffs now I see I am actually going to be putting more cuffs on Edited October 9, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The importance of shipyards just increased a million fold due to these changes. Not that I don't support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The importance of shipyards just increased a million fold due to these changes. Not that I don't support them. yep and the importance of your large scale navy is just more trivialized..... repair facilities are more trivialized..... the choice of leadership that think about the big picture is trivialized...... the captians of the capital ships are trivialized...... All so Shipyards and building facilities can essentially be the end all be all of Naval power, I could be wrong but that's what I am seeing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 The importance of shipyards just increased a million fold due to these changes. Not that I don't support them. Well I was hoping that, in so far I feel they've been obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Well I was hoping that, in so far I feel they've been obsolete. they wouldn't be in the next match with how even the ship numbers are the only reason they have been in recent matches is their has been large disparity between fleets Mine and Rayla's was the one match this didn't need to happen for after it do what ever you want but for our match alone its unneccisarry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 they wouldn't be in the next match with how even the ship numbers are the only reason they have been in recent matches is their has been large disparity between fleets Mine and Rayla's was the one match this didn't need to happen for after it do what ever you want but for our match alone its unneccisarry.I'm not sure how that makes sense, surely a larger disparity would make shipyards more important - in order to close the gap. And a small disparity just as important, as a small number of ships can tip the balance. Basically one shipyard can't accommodate for such a large fleet, or repair yard for that matter, nothing more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Edit: beni you only have yourself to blame truly you said we could use whole navies as a "Major Naval force" so you allowed whole Navies I am assuming my ground forces are also going to get a heavy nerf bat when I reveal the truth about them because of this and I am the ONLY person with a "Major ground force" so in the end I am likely the only one to feel the effects of such a loss I am just hoping I am wrong but considering how the thought processes seem to work I am almost certain of it now.I'm not blaming anyone but myself, I take full responsibility for this problem and I've being doing by best to correct it. And while major ground forces would be more realistic if made smaller, not nearly as many problems are created by keeping it as it is, so I see no real reason for any major change there. Edited October 10, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Wait, are you not giving me the stealth fleet? Let's just drop the other part. I still think you're wrong, I just want to go to bed gosh darnit! Erm yes. And I'm still confused as to why you think you've been nerfed when the opposite has occured. You also seemed to have missed the part where I explain why Aurbere has twice as many ships as you, its because he has lots of little cruisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Erm yes. And I'm still confused as to why you think you've been nerfed when the opposite has occured. You also seemed to have missed the part where I explain why Aurbere has twice as many ships as you, its because he has lots of little cruisers. Again, let's drop it I can work around it... Oh, and I have 27 with the stealth fleet upgrade. (60+75)/5 is 27... The rest was my Sienar fleet. Speaking of which, is my starting garrison the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Again, let's drop it I can work around it... Oh, and I have 27 with the stealth fleet upgrade. (60+75)/5 is 27... The rest was my Sienar fleet. Speaking of which, is my starting garrison the same? I'm still curious as to why you feel that's necessary given your much improved situation. I don't want you to have any misconceptions regarding the realities of your position, though I'm sure that will become clear once the battle gets underway. And Malgus' Fleet =/= Malgus' Stealth Fleet which he captured. I'm not entirely sure if that's valid, as for garrisons you have 1/5 of what was preivously the case so one of each. Edited October 10, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'm not sure how that makes sense, surely a larger disparity would make shipyards more important - in order to close the gap. And a small disparity just as important, as a small number of ships can tip the balance. Basically one shipyard can't accommodate for such a large fleet, or repair yard for that matter, nothing more to it. OK beni I am ready to debate Rayla when ever I am still concerned about what is going to happen to my ground forces but we will see that when we get into the battle itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'm still curious as to why you feel that's necessary given your much improved situation. I don't want you to have any misconceptions regarding the realities of your position, though I'm sure that will become clear once the battle gets underway. And Malgus' Fleet =/= Malgus' Stealth Fleet which he captured. I'm not entirely sure if that's valid, as for garrisons you have 1/5 of what was preivously the case so one of each. Im not going through it again. It's the same fleet. And really? I thought the aim was to make suppliers and Shipyards more effective, so I assume the rate would stay the same... Never mind then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 It's the same fleet. And really? I thought the aim was to make suppliers and Shipyards more effective, so I assume the rate would stay the same... Never mind then.According to Wookieepedia the fleet consists of only a dozen Harrowers and some Terminus of an unknown number. Regardless I don't think we have any evidence to suggest its the same fleet. Concerning suppliers, if they do not come under the same deductions you'll find that people will end up having more of those ships than there own. Though I may set a number for that, like two or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) According to Wookieepedia the fleet consists of only a dozen Harrowers and some Terminus of an unknown number. Regardless I don't think we have any evidence to suggest its the same fleet. Concerning suppliers, if they do not come under the same deductions you'll find that people will end up having more of those ships than there own. Though I may set a number for that, like two or something. That was the expeditionary fleet stationed at the Vaiken space dock if I'm not mistaken. EDIT: Baily changed to Vaikan. Damn auto-correct. Edited October 10, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 That was the expeditionary fleet stationed at the bailey space dock if I'm not mistaken.I.e. Malgus' Fleet. Regardless I'm fairly sure that the stealth fleet was built specifically for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I.e. Malgus' Fleet. Regardless I'm fairly sure that the stealth fleet was built specifically for that purpose. It wasn't the entire fleet. No entire fleet is stationed at one place. IE: 12 Terminus' were at Vaiken, yet Malgus says "This is Darth Malgus of the Expeditionary Fleet, we bring greetings from the Verago sector!" Implying he had a fleet there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 It wasn't the entire fleet. No entire fleet is stationed at one place. IE: 12 Terminus' were at Vaiken, yet Malgus says "This is Darth Malgus of the Expeditionary Fleet, we bring greetings from the Verago sector!" Implying he had a fleet there too.Still doesn't mean anything. Malgus Fleet =/= Stealth Fleet. Unless you have evidence that suggests otherwise. One things for sure, that portion of the fleet is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Still doesn't mean anything. Malgus Fleet =/= Stealth Fleet. Unless you have evidence that suggests otherwise. One things for sure, that portion of the fleet is still there. What? Oh, and I think Rayla has some source that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 We can have the Me and Rayla Kaggath while dealing with this cant we since it would only be important in a fight where we face Selenial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 We can have the Me and Rayla Kaggath while dealing with this cant we since it would only be important in a fight where we face Selenial. Indeed. I really want to see this Kaggath Beni... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 What? Oh, and I think Rayla has some source that...What I'm saying is that if Malgus converted his entire fleet into a stealthed armarda, that portion of his fleet would disappear from Vaiken Station. I think we should assume it was a new fleet, after all you can't just slap a stealth generator on any old thing - often these have to be integrated into an entirely new set of schematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) The Kaggath has begun. Edited October 10, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I think we should assume it was a new fleet, after all you can't just slap a stealth generator on any old thing - often these have to be integrated into an entirely new set of schematics. Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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